Messages

Erowid is a great resource. I have browsed that site for many years. Yes, that is a much better venue for those who wish to "blow their minds".

I want to consciously project to unseen worlds and speak to enlightened souls! Lets talk about that!

Oh, sorry, thought I'd add this just to clarify my point. Shamans have a different pursuit altogether. The work of a shaman has nothing to do with experimenting with drugs, ie. salvia divinorum. Shamans generally learn their practice from others of their ilk. Shamanism also involves deep and purposeful trance states with specific intentions. They don't do it to have a "mind-blowing" experience. That is what I wish to clarify. No one should frown on a shaman 

I'm done. Sorry for dragging this out.

Personalreality -

I will say here that if persons are to speak from authority and experience on a forum such as this we are also responsible then for the influence we place on those with less experience. I would not want to be responsible for recommending a practice that might be detrimental to another. The taking of any substance by someone less informed may cause consequences which would render them useless to society, their families and the future they might have had. I will take my "male" experiences and count myself lucky to have come away unscathed. I know of many others who were not so lucky and I am sure you do as well. I have seen more than enough first psychotic breaks in teenagers thinking marijuana harmless.

Congratulations on your successful studies. I am sure you do have a natural talent for it. It is a noble pursuit.

Xanth -

You are a very practical poster. I specifically look for your posts in hopes to gain insight.

Yes I understand quite well what you are saying about the non judgmental aspect of guides however the experience I refer to was not judgmental, I was merely informed that the use of substances limited my abilities and would prevent the attainment of what I was looking for. I was "told" it would interfere with the energy and focus required. It was more as if I was being treated as if I were a child who did not know better. Upon taking that advice I have found I am progressing nicely.

Frown, judge. What are words anyway. You made your point and it is accepted. Thank you. Just say NO.

Not "judge", "frown". I have been "informed" that substance use will impede my progress. It is something for me to avoid. I may be alone in this perhaps. I prefer to treat my organics nicely anymore as it is. I appreciate the input though. Hope your having a great day!

Pardon me but one more comment please...

It has been my experience that "guides" frown on substance use and may limit your exposure to the greater realm. But that is MY experience.

I don't have any Castaneda links at the moment. I just have the books. The book by his wife is called "A Magical Journey With Carlos Castaneda" by Margaret Runyan Castenada, Millenia Press 1997. Another interesting read is "Border Crossings" by Donald Lee Williams, Inner City Books 1981. The Williams book is a "psychological perspective on Carlos Castaneda's path of knowledge". Williams is a Jungian Analyst. I have always enjoyed the Jungian perspective on psychology.

Sorry, no links. Haven't been into the don Juan thing for quite some time actually. It was more of a late seventies/early eighties pursuit.

Personalreality -

If I offend then please forgive me. I have worked in psychiatry since 1998. I am a psych certified registered nurse who has worked specifically in acute inpatient care. I have witnessed more than my share of devastation related to any and all forms of substance use. My passion is to encourage people that anything they might think they can experience using a substance they can experience with their mind alone. That being said, I did not find this particular passion of mine without my own use of substances. Twenty-plus years of marijuana use, more acid trips than I can count, cubensis and psilcybins aplenty, opium, peyote, ayahuasca, cocaine, meth (didn't like that thank GOD), salvia divinorum, various pharmaceutical narcotics and more than enough alcohol to float anyones boat. SO, since you brought it up, I thought I'd own up to my own history. I read all Carlos Casteneda books and have participated in American Indian shamanic rituals with a friend. I have read books on South American shamanism and Russian shamanism. I have read many books on Wicca. I fully appreciate the entheogenic experience. Psilibus is a name I came up with about fifteen years ago, it is my silly way of combining psilocybin and syllabus - "enththeogenic curriculum". Anyway, to make this long story short, I have overcome (most) of my addictive predilections over the last ten years and am now pursuing enlightenment au-natural. Don't get me wrong, substances can be dangerous and ruin parts of your life better left intact but if that's your trip then by all means help yourself. I think its a dead end road with attractive scenery.

Do we understand each other? I meant only the best.

Cool experiences. Nice. You couldn't possibly tell me you didn't enjoy what has been happening. This is adventure. I recognize it. You just helped me remember some of what I went through in my teens. The fear is transitory. Don't be afraid - be daring. Dare to stare that "Boo" in the face - IT IS JUST YOU!!
Fear will stop the greatest explorer. Think about it. During the sixties in America there were men being prepared to be astronauts. Don't you think there were at least a couple well qualified, intelligent and physically strong men who silently backed away because of fear? Don't you think the fear is just a test? To see if you are really ready? PASS THE TEST. Nothing can hurt you. You will not be harmed in any way.
Don't stay near your body. RUN AWAY FROM IT! Go far and wide! See all you can before you pull yourself back. Your body will patiently await your return as it has always done. Know no fear. Don't listen to anyone who talks of evil. It exists only in the lower realms. If you can project you are safe. Seek God. Seek knowledge. Ask for assistance and it will be there. \

The more you accept it the more you will experience it. All the better.

Have fun and Enjoy your life.

CFTraveler -

Excellent response. Succinct.

The chemicals present in "drugs" and "herbals" only disrupt your biological "brain". They have absolutely nothing to do with you "mind". Nothing, nada, nowhere, no way. Go ahead and delude yourselves, I sure as hell did. That was twenty years ago. Since then I have solidified my relationship with the mind and it is much more of a trip than any salvia, weed, acid, shroom, opium, coca derivative or ecstatic 5htp stimulant. Go ahead. Smoke and drink and pop or shoot and see what you end up with.

I didn't realize I was dealing with teenagers on this forum. I had hoped for so much more.

There is a greater cause in this universe and it has nothing to do with communing with plant spirits. They will teach you nothing. Read ALL of Castenada. Then read his wife's version of things. He wrote a great set of stories. She is the only one who made sense.

My refrigerator drove me insane many years ago. 

What is the sound of one hand clapping? What is the sound of a flute with no holes? Jeez. It is the rhythm of the artist only.

String theory has nothing to do with anything other than the construct of the physical dimensions. It is a mathematical theory. Whoopeeee!

I realize theory can have a basis in reality, especially when proved but what does it have to do with Robert Bruce?

Tiny - sorry but humanity IS a delusion. There is no such thing in reality. Humanity does not exist. This is all an illusion ~~~~~~~~~

You and I can stand directly next to each other, staring in the same direction, eyes witnessing the same event - you and I will not see the same thing. We WILL NOT see the same thing. We also WILL NOT describe the same thing. It would be close and based on the same event but it will not be the same observation. What is also interesting is that it will effect us each differently inside. I will have a different "emotional" reaction than you. This is all perception. The sphere that surrounds our consciousness and "perceives" what is to be experienced. R. Bruce and all his cohorts gave us the best explanation of their own perception. It is not dogma. It is exploration. We or others may "have the same mind" but it will NEVER be the same, ever, even in focus "4" or whatever you want to call it. Oneness gave up and sought "sameness". We are "one" but we are not the "same".

Thanks Xanth.

Actually I was trying to avoid the apples and oranges with my car analogy - both vehicles of transport but one much more souped up and fancy than the other. Oh well.

Yes, semantics. The language barrier can be quite an obstacle here. I'm trying to learn the whole "phasing" thing now and it is presenting its own set of conflicts with my classic training. Once again, oh well.

But still, to me, "dreams" does not "equal" "astral projection". They come from the same place, yes, but quite very different in terms of what you (should say I) experience. That is the apples and oranges, the experience.

Yes?

Engagement -

I see these types of conversations pop up more and more in these forums. It is wordplay - "dreams = astral projection". No. Not even close in my book. That would be like saying  - 1976 Datsun b210 = 2010 Nissan GT-R. Sure they are both cars that can get you somewhere but...

Please don't try to reinvent the wheel here. Please try to utilize the language and terminology that is already present. Excuse me if I misunderstood you in some way, I think I understand what you are trying to say but...

It doesn't sound to me like you have projected or been to the astral realm that you can remember. When you do have that experience you will know there is a grand difference and the specific terminologies will certainly apply.

I know my dreams very well. I know my lucid experiences very well. They are distinctly different. A conscious projection is NOTHING like any type of dream I have ever had. Apples and oranges, in my book.

The experience you have will be based on your perceptions, your state of mind, level of awareness and scope of focus. Dreams you usually remember once you wake up. Lucid dreams and OBE's you "experience" as it is happening and are generally lucky to remember once you awaken unless you have a technique that helps.

I probably shouldn't be typing this as I haven't slept in over 24 hours. 2 cents worth.

Sleep paralysis with partial OBE after rousing from a dream. That's my thought. And, but then, that is part of the problem with "I have read everything on having out of body experiences i pretty much know everything about it, well really the only thing i actually know is everything that happens once you actually astral project, from what you can do, and where you could go." I could read the entire mechanics instructions for a 2009 Honda Accord but it is completely useless if I've never turned a wrench.

Sounds like your "knowledge" has helped you recognize a worthy experience. Time to start turning wrenches!

Oh and sorry about the "mechanic" analogy, it was the first to come to mind.

Enjoy!

Symbiosis through integration and exposure.

it will be a good thing. just as all things are.

In my opinion you were successful. Don't create doubt in yourself. YOU experienced it and YOU remembered it. Once you are out your must focus on your surroundings. In my opinion that helps hold you there. Distractions will send you back. I like to get away from my body as soon as I can or it seems to draw me back quickly. Once you feel the pull of your body (this will become familiar) it is pretty much a done deal for that moment. Try to become familiar with how your body and mind are feeling when this occurs. It will become familiar. Do you have a particular technique you are using? If so then stick with it. If not you may want to read up on what sounds likely to work for you. Others on this website may help you better than I with that.
You probably couldn't pass through the ceiling because you anticipated solidity. You will learn that you can fly, walk, run, teleport and pass through anything (including the Earth itself) once you have broken some of the preconceived notions of your physical self. There are no limits other than your imagination initially. I would encourage you to pursue the astral realm but I personally think exploring self control will suit you best and make you most comfortable with the whole precess overall.

DON'T find your self thinking "oh it was just a dream". That will kill your aspirations. DON'T talk about this with anyone you don't trust or feel will not understand. There is sooooo much misleading information out there.

I will watch this post to see what others say and will pipe in if necessary.

Congratulations and don't stop now. Enjoy the adventure. Post your new discoveries here please.

I'd heard that the moon is moving away from the earth at the same speed that human fingernails grow. I don't think that has much to do with "none time" though. Long nails are good for scratching itchy spots, I do know that.

Thank you both. I was commenting on myself to feed my ego I guess. It is nice to see I'm not alone. I will watch for your future posts.
Thanks and enjoy the day!

Sounds like you are where I am at. There is more. You know there is more. People say there is more. But, how to get there? Seems that if you are able to direct yourself to locate a card for validation and otherwise fly around (still pretty fun for me) then you need to seek assistance from those guides we all know exist. I have met guides, at least I believe I have. Many talk of this and relate wonderful stories. Problem is that the situation is mostly ineffable. Just try to explain how you feel when you know it is not a dream anymore. That your are dealing with something WAY out of your league. Go strictly for the astral experience. Fly so high you might never come down. Good luck my friend. It is waiting there for all of us.

I pray you succeed more and more every day.

Oh hey Psilibus -
You are so cool but no one really cares. You are too high on yourself. Why would anyone want to comment on what you post. You leave it unnecessary because your mind is made up anyway. You will never fit in with the clique. Destined to seek answers elsewhere, you are wasting your time.

Future success!

I agree with the last post of personalreality.
For twenty years I was successful with what is being called "traditional" here. Alot of meditation, trance and symbol scrying. I have just begun practicing again after about ten years of very little practice. I have been trying to learn the "phasing" method as I felt Frank was in touch with something that made sense. My results have been sketchy at best but I do not think it is because of the technique itself. I blame my lack of practice altogether. Best thing to do is pick something and stick with it. Xanths Frank pdf is vast and comprehensive and I have gleaned only what seems pertinent for myself. Don't get lost in the semantics, get lost in the practice - daily. I am just going to say that there is no such thing as "easier" any more than "harder". Pick what sounds most related to your own personal beliefs and go with it.

Why do people seek validation? Is the experience alone not enough? Is this to distinguish  OBE from "dreaming"? I have never had a single doubt of what I am experiencing when I project. Should I?
Of course I have read of various methods and experiences of validation. The experience of OBE is so unlike any other I have never doubted what was occurring.
Sounds like no one has had success here. I would think the mere fact you FOUND a card solidifies the reality of your experiment. Reading text or numbers is difficult enough. Symbols especially communicate more information than one might initially think.

Anyone have success? I have never tried. One more thing to add to my list.