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i regularly do this but my problem is i will have tons of background noise in my head, as in random thoughts that i'm not in control of... well that's all fine and well, and the longer they last, the deeper i go, but they all of a sudden for no reason stop, and i have no clue why...

i'm not thinking at all, i'm just focusing in on them, and i can keep focus without immediately stopping them (usually) and yet they just randomly stop

i find that you abruptly pull out of a semi hypnagogic state into a normal conscious state it produces a very heavy feeling much like falling....

and if you can manage to pull in and out and in out FREQUENTlY (this is so extremely hard to do becuase if you WANT to do it you're thinking too much but if you don't want to it you could just fall asleep) you'll start hitting vibrations, for like, a fraction of a second, when your mind refocuses itself..

but that's as far as I can get.. no paralysis... just "fake" paralysis where I FEEL heavy but I'm actually not.... and it really bothers me..... becuase it takes me like an hour to really get into this point..

and I CANNOT hold onto the images... like... I remember I was thinking about Tool just now recently and I thought "saw the gap again today" and then I saw some guy walking continually forward, closer to me, accompanied by intense falling asleep feelings... and i was just passively hearing whatever it was that was going on in my head associated with the image... and then... bam.. it's gone.. i'm conscious again, but not very, and tired and drained... and aware of my body again.

it's almost like very small remote viewing sessions or something? but it's just that I can't stay hypnagogic long enough so that when for some reason or another when the state randomly and ABRUPTLY stops itself and I get the falling sensation, that I go into a trance.

I don't ... I'd have to stay at it for > 2 hours and well I just did it for one hour and it left me really drained and tired and the last 15 minutes of it or so I was just totally out of it for a long time but by the time I drifted back into consciousness all I felt was tired, not paralyzed or in vibrations.

Yet... somewhere after 30 minutes or so of doing this I will feel vibrations for maybe a tenth of a second while transitioning from hypnagogic to conscious and experiencing the falling feeling.

So I don't know what to do to keep myself there longer... I guess maybe I should start doing a mantra once I get REALLY tired so that I can keep transitioning in and out and in and out instead of just getting completely lost?

quote:Originally posted by beavis

All drugs should be legal. If somebody becomes a crack-head and dies from overdose, that is good because it decreases the number of future crackheads because they cant have kids. Dont try to do evolution's job for it.

agreed... the only problem is if we just all of a sudden legalize drugs we will hit a really big... umm.... period of badness... for lack of better words

all the crackheads are like, dying off, and traffic is that much worse as people do other substances and drive, and inner city crime probably flares up when the dealers have nothing to do anymore, and normal people go rob all the dead crackheads... and well..

this phase wouldn't last horribly long though... what I think should be done is that all natural drugs should be immediately legalized, and DUI should be mandatory jail time, at least a year... and REALLY cracked down on like crazy, all the drug war money goes to keeping people off the streets while high... well that and EDUCATION programs to teach people that drugs are okay and have been used in moderation for thousands of years, and that the key to having a fullfilling life WITH drugs is using them in moderation, etc..

in fact hell, there should be a dug education class you have to attend before you can get a "drug license" and this applies for cigs and booze too...

and the age for substances should either be 18, or 13... 13 is a bit young,  but think about it, little Johnny becomes a stupid teenager and gets wasted.. well.. 3 years later with all drugs abundant he's either dead or he's probably learned how to use them responsibly, so when he gets his license he's a responsible user and probably posesses the sense not to drive under the influence...

you know I mean in France kids drink and I don't think they have much drunk driving... it's all becuase of this puritan nonsense, if you make something WRONG and you FORBID kids to do it, they won't only do it, they'll do it a lot more recklessly than they would have done it if they thought it was normal and "right" and socially acceptable.

I mean if the government says "here, burn this pic of W, it's on us... we like letting you protest." you're like..... umm... okay... but if they arrest protestors like crazy (which they are) you'll probably torch SUV's or something?

Meh.. my point is if it isn't "wrong" and "tabboo" and socially unacceptable, you won't go crazy when you do it like you would if you thought you were being a "rebel"

Oh yeah.. the rest of my plan is to gradually phase in all manmade drugs once the naturals settle down and the education programs take effect... but drug penalities on the unnaturals during this time are just fines.

[can]

well do you have a fear of plane crashes, OR, think about them from time to time?

Becuase that in combo with the airport is more than enough to give you recurring plane crash dreams.

I mean, I have like... a plane crash dream a month usually... I'm usually flying it or in it too... so.. I mean, I've never died on a plane  yet (obviously lol) but I don't fly a lot... I don't think about plane crashes or planes too much though but...

I do obsess with car crashes sometimes, so the crash aspect can manifest into other vehicles.

I wouldn't really call them prophetic if you had them that far in advance really, I mean, yes the terrorists had been planning it for a while, and yes, the government had been warned about it several times around the time you were dreaming, and maybe there was a government conspiracy and they planned it all to begin with..

so I guess that could be a lot of collective thought about planes crashing in US cities... but...

given your connection to the airport I wouldn't particularly think so.. do you ever have other dreams come true?

I used to like every day but they were somewhat vague, then I stopped caring and looking too deeply into them and they seem to have stopped.... but I mean...

I do believe that dreams can be prophetic... one time I dreamed I was in a bus and we had this sort of accident and my grandma woke me up and about 5 minutes later i went into the main room and my grandpa had just turned on the tv and they were talking about a bus accident.

And I dreamed my bus on this band trip blew up.. and this other school band who was going to the same place as us (Florida)... their bus caught on fire like a day or two after I had that dream, no injuries.

And well, lots of other things.. but... somehow I feel that unless you are LOOKING for a prophetic dream, or you just have something really bizarre that outright immediately makes you think it's prophetic upon waking up... that most of your dreams won't be.

You know, think about them, obsess over them, you are more likely to have them and exert your subconscious into showing you the future? Combine that with how much you think about and analyze your dreams and you'll probably find a few connections, but you have to also factor in that if you look for something you WILL see it more often and it may not necessarily be mystic, ala an obsession with 11 and seeing it all the time, then you stop thinking about it an stop caring and it goes away.

I think it has to mainly due with the subconscious but that the subconscious may very well have the capacity to predict the future, and do things like that.

Come on people...

WHY ON EARTH DO YOU HOPE FOR ALL THESE BAD THINGS TO HAPPEN?

I want the government to change, but you know, maybe it's more prudent to hope for it to happen in a way that won't cost MILLIONS OF LIVES.... a US civil war would probably escalate into something much much worse and much more global.

I mean, come on... I can understand how in a certain light it would be "cool" if the people said we've had enough and we toppled "the man" but civil war would be far from ideal.

Even if WE won, (how can we take on rail guns and tanks with energy shields? they are coming and coming soon, not to mention all these "non lethal" bio weapons and horrible things we're developing for crowd control)

It'd be a guerilla war.. we'd be the Iraqis, basically.. every once and a while blowing something up then running and hiding in the woods and caves.. it'd take years upon years to topple all military and police forces, you know? Providing those forces refuse to fight in the war but I think there are enough nationalists in this country that would kill for it blindly even if it was their nextdoor neighbor on the hitlist...

So, assuming we win the guerilla war, and that WE (our generation sees the end of it) do you think we'd be in a better place than we are now? Think of the mass devastation to our country and all the new problems that brings about.. and while the war is going on think about what people such as China would do when they notice the government is spending all it's time fighting itself.... think about Russia and all the other nuclear powers... uncertainity breaks out in the world, our influence falls and someone else is going to try to pick it up and become the dominant superpower.

WW3 is a likely outcome of US Civil war... and that won't help any of us... it might help the children of the children of the children of the survivors .... but .... screw them, I'd rather the world stayed how it is and we just started improving things and using common sense and that people started WAKING UP...

or you know, maybe the merging of all human minds into a collective conscious and the ascent of the human race to a higher plane of existance...

that's something to hope for.

quote:Originally posted by Michael_E

quote:Originally posted by jc84corvette

So just focus on the sinking feeling? When I had them I told my self "Im sinking Im sinking". But after a wile it just stops but I still feel heavy.

i think its more than just focusing on it with your awareness. go with the sensations and feeling of falling and sinking, feel the sensations intensify, after intensifying to a certain degree which may vary from person to person your consciousness will reach a point where the exit process happens by itself. Described in words it feels like "a point of no return", you can fight it all you want with all your will but it will be very difficult to stop, the best thing is to just go along for the ride. One thing that i found is that if i start talking to myself during the sinking or vibrations using self-narrative meaning actually saying the words in my head, it brings me out of the state of awareness. Maybe saying something once  during the process is ok, but if you do it too much i think it might stop things from happening. perhaps try to project by accentuating feelings and sensations instead.

same here, but the problem is in order to hit the state where i would project I need to repeat a mantra, now after a while I don't pay attention to the mantra at all and my thoughts go chaotic as I enter the hypnagogic state and passively listen to them, but only a few seconds go by and all of a sudden my consciousness abruptly goes back to normal and I get this falling feeling and a bright white flash (usually) and vibrations for like a fraction of a second, then I'm just back to my normal mind saying the mantra.

so i need to figure out how to shut the mantra up while going hypnagogic, without letting it make me fall asleep.....? or how to get into that state easy without a mantra.

all i know is i can get myself in and out of the state easier than I used to be able to, but still once I'm in it it's like my head has been hijacked and I lose all focus and basic cognitive abilities.... i wish i could hit the hypnagogic state and stay conscious in it like I do at night sometimes.

quote:Originally posted by Huwie

I realise that, I was simply trying to argue the point from your point of view.

I really don't know what else to tell you.  I can only regurgitate what Bruce has said in Astral Dynamics as I have no experience of my own to go on.  Besides, if what Bruce says about astral feedback is true, I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of testing the theory, either. []

Have any of you experienced it? I"d love to give it a go but whenever I "project" my body is nowhere to be found, or it isn't MY  body it's something/one that looks similar to me, or sometimes, nothing like me.

and I don't know how to enter the "physical" plane if it's possible.

if you can hit a trance, give the trance a name, and tell yourself that when you say that name in your head you will re enter this state, it seems to work

at least it did for me for a few hours, I went lucid and closed my eyes and kind of reentered the body and said "this is a trance, when I close my eyes, breathe deeply and say something something.. I will quickly reenter this state."

or maybe I told my subconscious to put me back in that state..

at any rate I woke up and tried it.. BAM... instant vibrations... I was very pleased with myself, until it stopped working a few tries later.

I think you might have to be in a semi trance for your subconscious to even pick up on the key word to begin with? I don't know...

maybe I should have repeated myself over and over and given it a better phrase that has nothing to do with "trance" because I'm sure I think "trance" so much when I'm not in a trance that it doesn't associate that word with that feeling.

One problem is though that I can't remember what the phrase was.. it was two words, and the second one was a form of the word trance.

I'd experiment with that if you want, it seemed greatly effective and I'm going to try again, I've tried a few other times but I don't think I was deep enough to make the suggesiton stick.

I also have a self hypnosis script I'm going to try soon.

would an example of mind split be like when you feel like you're doing two things at once within a dream but seem to be kind of stuck in only one of the perspectives while sort of mentally guiding the other?

it's not like the OBE split, but....

like last night i dreamed i was back in band at my old school and they were playing Ticks and Leeches (lol) and they sucked at it.. so I was playing clarinet at first then I decided I'd better get on guitar and show them how it's done properly...

and I was "playing" guitar and I was aware of it... but all I was doing was really playing clarinet at the same time, while thinking about playing guitar... but somehow.. like... guiding my playing.. and singing... but not singing because I'm sitting there playing the clarinet.

At one point I realized this and contemplated how it was I was playing guitar and singing....

mind split? Or just imagination.. or taking control of the unconscious and making it do the playing?

I guess it could kind of be the same thing with OBE's but I don't know... kind of a split awareness of the body and the environment you are in but one is really dominant over the other?

"Another thing I mentioned was control over the body. I'll tell you that my meditation is not something that is welcome. When I do meditate, attempts at distraction arise. I'll place my focus on the breath and I'll find that my focus is being shifted against my will sometimes or the feel of my breath becomes different. Then, other things usually happen. My hand has suddenly felt warm on one occasion. During meditation, my heart rate goes up instead of going down. Thoughts that are not mine are placed there and of course other parts of my body will move without my intent. They'll tell me that I am experiencing emotional resistance when I'm not. For example, they'll make parts of my body tense. They've also made tears come out of my eyes."

umm... that sounds very normal to me... your body will try to distract you when you start meditating becuase it's not something it's used to doing.....  and your focus being shifted? Of course it is... YOU'RE MEDITATING... that's what happens... it's quite a task to stay focused and something that needs much practice... now.. unless you've been meditating for years upon years this all sounds very very normal to me.

and the negative thoughts can stem from yourself you know, we all have them.

quote:Originally posted by Ybom

maybe you should discuss more with your mom then, holy reality. what's b&j, Dark Knight?

my mom's a somewhat conservative christian and scoffs at other viewpoints... this trait is passed on to my brother sadly.. I see him imitate her all the time.

Like... I can't think of an example but something comes on tv and she goes "that's wrong!" and my brother's like "yeah, that's wrong!" and I'm like shut the **** up you intolerant bastards. (on the inside)

all this flag waving we're #1 conservative nonsense gets to me sometimes...  I mean take your superiority and gloat in it if you want, but you don't need to shove it down other people, especially when it comes to trying to vote religion into office and pass oppressive laws and things like that.

and I guess my dad seems to be caught in the middle of it... I don't really know what he actually believes... when he's around my family he seems to support Bush but he was talking suspiciously about him when it was just him and I... so... it's just..

they would be accepting of meditatoin but I think astral projection would kind of cross the line into "occult" or "witchraft" or "the devil" especially given that I listen to Tool and if they ever felt like lazily researching them they would see heavy "occult" influences.

plus they forbid me to use legal drugs despite being of the legal age to do so.

i'd just rather have them think I'm "normal" than to have to put up with "that's nice... blah blah blah church blah Jesus?"



but..... I'm thinking about ordering AD and PSD online.

"Bottom line, grow marijuana, you might get a slap on the wrist."

umm... if by slap on the wrist you mean a felony and potential 2 years in jail.

I like how in the hoverboard section they show a picture ripped from back to the future II.

but technology isn't any fun

in my dreams i create a psi ball from energy from the moon (usually) and then I keep thinking "ice" and such and imagining it's really cold... then I chunk it in a pool of water and watch it freeze.

I wish it were that easy in waking life.... I haven't really tried though I guess... I did with fire and felt heat in my hands yet at the same time they felt normal... but I was in bed and didn't really want to try to "throw" it at anything....

^ go to gotpsi.com (or gotpsi.org ?) and read the article on psi balls

when i try to make a psiball i end up with a feeilng of randomly circulating energy inside and immediately outside my hand, but... it certainly doesn't take any "form" and it doesn't feel like a ball... and like it just stays where my hand is.. i can't "throw" it or do anything with it... realy... I can send the energy to other parts of my body via the... tactile imagery type thing where i just move my focus from my hand to somewhere else and try to feel the energy move there...

but I'm not seeing anything and I'm not feeling a ball of any sorts...

oddly, when I dream, I can (usually) make psiballs, visible ones, using the same techinque, and they take the feel of jello kind of, rigid, yet not... they can be turned into fire pretty easy, ice a bit harder, and electricity (usually hardest) I have tried healing dream figures (who got in the way of my fire practice :/) with minal success...

So the explanations that might arise are: I have way more energy while sleeping so I am really making psi balls... or: my mind is just imagining what a psi ball should be like.

if it's the latter, how come I can't vividly imagine/feel the psiball in real life like I do in the dreams? Shouldn't it become a familiar act of memory that I could carry over into real life to at the very least TRICK myself into thinking I have a psi ball and perhaps, seeing it?

I don't know I mean I feel energy just fine, anywhere I want to feel it (some places harder to do than others) so isn't that all that is required of channeling that energy somewhere or into something? I might just not have enough I guess...... it's kind of hard to think that I spontaneously started having somatic hallucinations throughout my body when I first started energy work though.. it seems real... and if I accidently do energy work while on the computer it can make me feel really dizzy/tripy if I direct it to my head accidentally... kind of like a meditation type feeilng.

Any advice? Does just imagining that you are channeling energy from another source work or do you really have to actually try and draw that energy in with your mind and feel it coming from somewhere else?

civil war...
http://johntitor.com/

not that I believe that...

Everyone (including me) seems to really think bin laden will be "found" before the elections... what a drag.... especially since if so many people think that it might be more likely to happen... maybe.

I also think he will "foil" a "large scale" "terrorist" "attack" before elections come.

But I hope that if there is an attack it comes soon and tremendous blame gets pinned upon him for idiocy and it wasn't due to a lack of intelligence, just idioicy (like 9/11) so he gets out of office and someone hopefully competent gets in.

I was told something would happen on January 13th by some weird woman in black.

I also hope that the dems really push the Bush let 9/11 happen due to either gross incompetency or conspiracy issue and the fact that they still won't let us see the 9/11 report... and what he's doing to civil liberties and the constiution.

but they shouldn't soley be playing blame Bush, either.

when i don't have school and am home alone i'm partial to trying 1-2 hour to two hour sessions during the middle of the day.

but due to my schedule that's like every other day.

I think he might mean that other people (us) hear similar things.

It's a hypnagogic hallucination that you get when going from beta to alpha brainwaves I think, or something like that... which is usually while falling asleep so you wouldn't remember them that much, but since you're trying to keep your mind awake you notice those kinds of things frequently.

It's normal and happens to everyone... and yes basically it kind of is your brain tuning into the "astral" or to a dream, creations of your mind... little short flashes of detailed images are also common.

I wish I could stay in that state so I could get into a trance.

would you post those two names and how to pronounce them?

and did you meditate upon them believing or expecting them to work, or were you just skeptical but open minded?

Later on, he visits the person during his waking life, and asks them if they have any recollection of the experience, to which they reply "No".

However, this conundrum didn't force Monroe to dismiss these experiences as dreams...perhaps because it is not easy to dismiss experiences like the one you describe as a dream
-----------------

so is it possible to do that and actually contact them and have them remember it, you know, enter their real dreams? If so... how?

you had an "emotional" dream before hand?

emotional in a bad way? If so that's probably why the spider manifested, as if you OBE after having had a nightmare or disturbing dream beforehand you seem a lot more likely to have screwed up "OBEs"

and i'd say it was "real" but they are never 100% accurate to real life, that is unless you have a photographic memory, maybe.

how can you use your third eye to get some and how is that selfish?

Sex is natural. The third eye is natural. It is natural to have sex by being... natural... you know.. chemicals...etc... natural desires... so I mean... by harnessing a natural techinique and using it to have sex.. I see nothing wrong with it....

Are we talking like forcing someone into sleeping with you?

Still.... how is it done? Wouldn't the energy drawn while having sex cancel out any bad effects you may have by doing something "wrong"

If you don't think it's wrong does it not affect you?

As you can see... I'm fairly desperate...


But.. with that aside...I can get energy feelings in my third eye area but I can't really see anything abnormal when my eyes are open... does an inability to focus your vision on something for longer than a few seconds affect your ability to see auras?

children are naturally capable of amazing feats of the mind but are conditioned by society not to use them

i remember discovering how to open eye hallucinate and how weird/fun it was....

i told my mom about it and i'm not sure what she said but i stopped doing it.... something convinced me it wasn't "normal" and I shouldn't be experiencing it.

i have a theory that kids naturally trip like crazy but somewhere along the line their imaginations/gifts etc are shattered.

i don't ever remember doing anything remarkable or having insanely vivid hallucinations or an exceptional imagination, but then again I don't remember much from childhood.

[US]

quote:And, I'm not sure about this, but I think Marijuana is legal in the US for medical purposes - eg: prescription use.

An effective, safe, natural form of medicine, LEGAL, in the US?

Yeah right.

It's legal in a few states.... mine (OK) tried to decrminalize it and it PASSED THE SENATE ... but... the house shot it down..

I'm not sure what that means though... not sure at all.. when I had to go to court for a traffic violation all they seemed to do was fine repeat offenders.... so.. maybe that town is lax... or maybe the state is lax... but supposedly the law dictates that you can go to jail on a  first posession offense, yet... I remember looking it up  back when I tried to do some and it said first offense was just a fine... so..

I don't know.

My facist parents made me flush it though (long story, involved them spying on my online activities to find out I was doing it....) I would have smoked it outside but I live so close to a police station and conservative neighbors....

So for some reason they got suspicious when they smelled some deodorant around my car (which was in the garage).

The bovine excrement they spouted at me was so close to those damn propoganda pot commercials too... but they at least agreed it was not that bad of a drug and not as bad as cigarettes... which they also forbid me to smoke.

(I'M AN ADULT)

They also didn't believe me when I said I was trying to expand my mind.

Assholes.


Everyone write your senators and reps about decriminalizing pot and legalizing it for medicinal purposes please... I urge you... I'm going to sometime soon... I mean.. I could get a prescription for it if it were legal in my state... I get muscle spasms quite a lot and seemingly chronic muscle pain.

"
Barnes and Noble, a giant bookstore chain in the US carries Robert Bruce's books, but there is a major catch. You won't find them in the new age section as I first thought they would be. I had to ask an attendant where AD was and she was also suprised to find it in witchcraft. "

I just went there today looking for that very book and they did not have a witchraft section.... which doesn't surprise me considering how religious everyone is out here... but I went in spirituality and new age and all related places and it wasn't there....

I probably wouldn't have felt comfortable buying it though since I was with my mom.

The only real problem with that technique is that you have to be REALLY out of it... like... super heavy trance, at least, in my experience...

However for WILD's it works great and sometimes I'll be aware of my body and not think I'm paralyzed but somehow with some imagination I can find that I am reaching back into the dream for something to hold onto and pull me in, or for someone, usually someone becuase I'm lazy and it's easier to have them do all the work.

But... I reread your post lateralus987 and I know what you mean about all of a sudden becoming aware of your body and zapping back in.. it means your body/mind aren't in a deep enough state of sleep yet... I'd stay in the trance a bit longer... and if you're trancing after you've already had what your body considers to be "enough" sleep you're going to have that problem a lot more....

Hitting it while still within the gap of your normal sleeping hours is the best, if you've slept in a bit it might not work well, and if you do it too early it might not work well... it needs to synch up with your normal REM patterns I think to be most effective.

Now if you can hit the trance during the day I really can't help you much there, because I haven't done that yet...

I almost made it last night before going to sleep but it turned out it was just a psychological paralysis... I had almost fallen asleep and woke up into brief spine vibrations and then later on felt real heavy, but I guess the heaviness was imagination because I could move just fine.

I was probably close though.

one other tip:

*don't follow weird looking people that you might see walking around inside your head... if you created them it's okay but if you're not sure where they came from and you hadn't just dreamed about them I wouldn't advise it based upon my experience (in psychi self defense if you want to read it)