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LightBeam. It sure is. Turmeric is something that does help some of us if we also deal with chronic pain issues. Thankfully for me, chronic pain is pretty much the one that NOT wrong with me! I often make myself strong batches of ginger tea with turmeric added, mixed with lemon. I'm a bit of a ginger fiend =)

Lumaza - precisely what I added to our discussion on the other thread! My Integrated Self clearly desperately wants healing. But is there another level of Self that doesn't? A question for the ages.

Oh yeah! And I also do a lot of things that are supposed to help the vagus nerve, including belly breathing, EMDR, EFT, cold showering, acupressure, humming, etc. It doesn't hurt and hopefully makes things easier for my body, but nothing that drastically improves the situation.

I have tried just about everything you can imagine. My diet is very healthy. Little to no added sugar, pescatarian, no dairy, no caffeine, no alcohol (I'm intolerant of it). I've tried eliminating various things like bread, beans, tomatoes, etc, to no benefit. I don't eat processed foods but cook for myself 3x/day - crockpot is great for that. I take supplements and drink an herbal formula (Canonical Chinese medicine). I meditate and practice qigong. It's not a food allergy, I wish that were all it was (please also know that most people with chronic illness have, like me, tried everything, and while people mean well when they ask, "Well have you tried xyz..." it's really mentally and emotionally exhausting for us! There is usually a novel-sized list of "things we've tried" that didn't work!).

I have a neuroimmune disease called myalgic encephalomyelitis. We have weird energy/metabolism needs. A lot of us cannot eliminate carbs - I tried this a couple times to devastating effect. Our aerobic/anerobic threshhold is way too low. Our bodies switch to inefficient glucose burning for energy after very little exertion. Burning glucose translates into less ATP bang for the buck, but that's all we got. So we tend to burn thru glucose really fast. Many of us experience hypoglycemia as a result. Carbs are essential for many of us to function! The data is seen in 2-day CPET tests/research studies (which I have done).

Maybe one day there will be a cure for us. Until then, I just plod along and still hope that at some point I can use AP to figure out how to heal myself, so I can truly live again. Then maybe I can help the rest of my fellow patients. That's my dream!

Unfortunately not. That's the whole problem! total exhaustion no matter what we do. No FDA approved treatments, nothing. Some people get a little benefit here and there from some supplements, but it's hit or miss. I haven't found anything that really works for me. All I can do is rest/sleep as much as possible, which I already do.

Lumaza, thank you for the great exchange! No, it's not a shaman name =) I'm just a rabbit person and grumpy is a joke. Rabbits can be very disapproving, you know.

I did speak to my teacher about people needing to fully accept healing, and she agreed. There are different levels of Self. It's important to know which level has the block, and then you need to talk to that level of the person's Self. E.g., your wife's Integrated Self obviously wants healing. But some other level has a block. The healing you're going to do needs to address the level that has the block/needs the healing. If you send healing to her Integrated Self, it won't work, because that's not the level that's blocked. However you work, be it with guides or not, you can ask, Where's the block? Which level of Self has the block/is rejecting the healing? Ask, Am I even supposed to remove this block? Sometimes the answer is no. But if the answer isn't no, then ask, How do I address that level of Self and what do I do to remove the block and help that level receive healing?

Levels (what she discerned from working with her guides) -

Integrated Self
Physical Body
Emotional Body
Spiritual Body (energy, qi, prana, aura, etc)
Sub-personalities (a personality within the self; a soul part)
Imprints from others (other people's energy you've taken on and integrated)
Group Energy (includes family dynamics, energy of a culture or place)
Spiritual Entities (can happen the problem could be another entity, but this is rare)
Life Force (Source, pure energy; wouldn't be blocked at this level, I think it's impossible, would go against its inherent nature)

It is also possible for the person who seems to have a block to ask the question to each of their own levels of Self - going into a meditation, doing stream of consciousness writing or drawing, doing spontaneous movement/vocalization, etc. Whatever works best for the individual. Ask each level what they have to say about them blocking healing. The people you try to help can do this on their own, and may provide useful information that can guide you in your further healing attempts!

2 July 2020

This morning, was twilight in and out. It seemed like I had astral sight, or was laying in my bed looking out from my energy body. I could see two people, floating over me, Black woman on the left and I think an older white man on the right. The Black woman was like in her 50s or 60s. She said something like, OK, let's go. They lifted me up and out of my body. Then, she said something like, Happy Halloween. I then felt like I was floating back down to my bed, and the two figures disappeared. Then my bed started to move as if I were on a raft on a river. I wondered if this was some sort of a test, since I'd just read about this on a forum. To test my fear and my commitment to continue, or perhaps to challenge me to figure out how to get rid of negative, frightening things. First there was a cat that appeared and attacked me, like on my stomach. Then two snakes, one on my left, and another appeared to come at me from above and directly ahead. What seemed to work was saying, You don't exist! Or, it might have been, You're not real! I can't remember which I used, but one of those phrases seemed to make the entity disappear and go away. After those three things, I got this sense that the "test", if that's what it was, was over, like I had successfully passed it or something. It felt like I was then en route somewhere else, I'm not sure, because then I was back in my body.

3 July 2020

This morning, after having some trouble getting out and asking for help, I seemed to float up, and felt I was going through my ceiling fan, up thru the roof and outside. Didn't feel any hands at this point. Decided to open my eyes and look. It seemed like I saw two entities, one on either side of me as I floated on my back. They looked a bit frightening, but I wasn't afraid. The more I looked, they then morphed into acceptable human form. A younger, heavier blonde woman and what seemed like a middle eastern man. I immediately began talking to them. I asked them who they are, what are their names? I seemed to ask why I'm not getting a lot of answers to my questions - or any answers, for that matter. She said I'd have trouble remembering, or something to that effect. Either I wouldn't understand or I wouldn't remember. I'm pretty sure I objected to this! I asked for her name, and to spell it for me so I could try to remember. It seemed like she gave me a card with it written on it. There were a few letters together that didn't make sense, and then a space, and then three eights. So the second part was 888. I also tried giving her my email address so she could email me! Haha. I wrote it out (poorly) on paper with a pen. Wherever we were, there were strange vibrations in the atmosphere. I had trouble seeing at one point, I tried touching my eyes, and asking if they were even open. I asked for help to see better.  Eventually my vision came back. I also remember her saying something about "fantasy school," and I asked if that's where I'd be going or what I'd be attending. There were lots of other people or beings around, and it did seem like some sort of group educational environment. I was beginning to ask about what she and the other person who was my invisible hand helper are - like, what kind of entity - and then I was back in my body.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts! It's comforting to know that I'm not the only one that feels wiped out by being out of body. I also experience severe thirst/dry mouth. It's hard to parse out what may be due to being out of body, and what's just regular chronic thirst (a common symptom of my chronic illness). I was already the most hydrated person you'd ever meet, but I think this is making me drink even more water - something I didn't think possible!

There's also a tell-tale way my body feels when I "come to" back in my body. It's like a deep down exhaustion in my limbs. It's not so much that I still feel tingling or vibration, it's almost like feeling the after effect. Like, a moment ago, there was tingling. And now it's fading away but something still feels weird. My physical body feels like that every single time I come back.

I suppose all this makes me a little worried, because my chronic illness means my body cannot produce energy normally. Energy metabolism doesn't work right. I already have so little energy to use for regular life (in which I can't really do much anymore), so I have no idea how it may affect me long term to be doing this, causing more energy depletion.

Also, a bit off topic, but how do I get email notifications if someone adds to a thread I started? I always click on "notify" but then nothing happens. I just have to remember to keep checking. It's not going to spam, either.

This may have been discussed elsewhere, but I'm wondering if many of you find that APing is seriously draining. Since starting to AP regularly a month ago, I've been going through a hypersomnia phase. Last night I "slept" 15 hours! And a lot of that was in and out twilight lucid dreaming that didn't quite feel like deep, restful sleep.

I do have a chronic illness, but normally I'm on the side of waking up too early and not being able to fall back asleep. So this pattern is unusual for me. Does APing affect anyone else like this? And if so, is it a phase that will pass, or is it always like this? Recommendations to "deal" with it?

Oh, and I mean to add - one thing my teacher did say is that sometimes, for a very sick client, for example, if they die after you do the healing, it may be because the healing was what *allowed* them to finally pass on. For example, you reclaim lost soul parts for them, do a power animal retrieval, and you think that will help them recover and live. But then they die. Perhaps why they were holding on was because they didn't want to die without those soul parts being returned, and getting their power animals back helped give them the strength to let go and pass over. It's a hard thing to think about, that death can be a sign of healing, for us mortals, but something to chew on nevertheless.

Lumaza, I'm so sorry to hear about your wife and your friend. On what level do you think they have "blocked" that healing? Do you have any idea of how to help them unblock it? What do you mean by "stasis"?

Part of shamanism is understanding that that shaman is not the one with the healing powers. The shaman is just the conduit. It's the guides that have the ability to heal, and the guides work through the shaman. That's part of why we say that no one can just decide to be or call themselves a shaman. The guides decide when you're ready, and the community will begin to call you a shaman when they see you getting results. Another note (and I want to add that I speak for absolutely no indigenous communities at all!) is the element of trust with the guides, that nothing will be released or brought up that cannot be processed in the session by the client, and always asking the guides for whatever healing the client needs most today. So that's trusting and relying on the wisdom of the guides to direct the shaman to do what is needed in that moment. And it may not be what the client wants most in that moment. For soul retrieval specifically (reclaiming lost soul parts/bits of vital essence for a living client), some "results" may be seen as regaining some aspect of physical health, for sure. Or, it may be something more subtle. Feeling more like oneself, feeling more grounded or centered, colors seeming more vivid, feeling more at peace. It may be that other people, like friends/family, notice a change in you, that you don't even see yourself! It may be an emotional release, memories coming back, feeling the need to release old maladaptive patterns - sort of a mental/emotional or even interpersonal or occupational "spring cleaning." All these things can be signs that some healing has taken place on some level.

I do remember my shamanic teacher saying something at one point that we can send soul parts back to the client, but the client (on some deep level) must accept and integrate that energy back. I will have to ask her more about that tomorrow when I talk to her.

Another thing that you all may already know, is that the way to shamanism is often the path of the "wounded healer" - a spiritual sickness that is so severe that it could be confused with psychosis or the person being closed to death, and the only way to cure oneself is to answer the call to the shamanic path. Many people become healers of all stripes because they themselves were sick, and were hellbent on finding a cure for themselves! So I fit that stereotype for sure. And, I really have tried nearly everything to feel better. You name it I've tried it, but nothing has cured me. I admit that I have wondered myself if there is something on some deep level that is blocked, and I don't know what that could be or how to unblock it. It's very depressing. But, if at least I can manage to find a way to help others, then I will be doing something meaningful.

I remember reading in Robert Bruce's book about how commands and affirmations are much more powerful when they are made when we are out of our bodies. That's what has me hopeful that if I get my astral sealegs, I will be able to unblock any possible blockages that are keeping me sick.

Do any of you know anyone who was sick like me, and nothing helped, and they they learned now to astral project, and finally managed to heal themselves while out of body?

Funnily, in all my adventures so far, if you've read them above, not once have I asked for personal healing! I have only asked about my mission, and then ultimately, to be taught *how* to heal so I can help others. Maybe I just should get on with it and put the question of my own healing to them directly.

every person in the beginning thinks that APs are so black and white

I don't think they're black and white! While I certainly may wish they were. Some things I maybe shouldn't have left out, for context - I'm generally a pretty patient person, but I can't help feeling like time is a bit of the essence here. I have a chronic illness that debilitates many. It's actually at the very bottom of the list, out of all the diseases that the NIH keeps track of "quality of life" for - we've overall got the worst quality of life. Some people are very severely sick, chained to their beds, for years. For decades! Unable to live their lives, work, visit family, see friends. Some are unable to tolerate light, sound, or even touch. My heart breaks for them. Suicide is a big risk in my community. People are desperate, suffering, and lose hope. Yet government funding is almost nonexistent for biomedical research, especially relative to disease burden. So that's a big part of why I'm doing this. I want to heal myself, for sure, since everything else I've tried has failed, and Western medicine has no answers. I want to help THEM! The people who have been confined to their beds, looking at the same ceiling fan, for years, day in and day out. I really wish the "powers that be" would just speed up the "learn how to be a healer" process, because every day that ticks by is just another day that they suffer. Other information/teachings/knowledge can wait. I just need/want to help my community.

So, that's why I'm itching to get this show on the road =)

Very interesting! I'm still reading so I can't give my full reaction at the moment, but I love the projection storys here lots to read into.

Thanks! Will look forward to any thoughts should you have them =)

I was curious about what you were going to say when or if you read this thread. Once again, similarities! 

Yes! I am so curious if my AP experiences will eventually tie in with my shamanic journeys. Time will tell. Thank goodness I take such detailed notes!

GrumpyRabbit's Very Grumpy Astral Journey

Hello everyone. I started astral projecting about 3 weeks ago -- save for one quasi-accidental incident when I was in high school and somehow managed to lurch myself out of my body. Prior to this, I've been going on shamanic journeys for about 1.5 years, and am currently in a shamanic healer's practicum. Part of my confusion stems from the fact that I thought that, upon fully leaving my body (AP), and asking to be taken to my spirit guides, I would see the guides I was familiar with and had been working with for 18 months! These experiences are entirely different, and since this method/realm are new to me, I'd very much appreciate your thoughts/insights on how to understand and analyze what's happening. I can keep updating this thread as I continue to have more AP experiences. The below is everything I've done so far:


-Beginning of June, started trying to learn more about AP, started doing affirmations, being intentional about it-


6 June 2020

First out of body experience - astral projection - Full Moon was yesterday, 2:12 pm

This morning as I was trying to fall back asleep for a while (as I was very tired, didn't sleep well last night) I suddenly felt the sensation that either one or both of my legs was "out of my body," pointing up. That is, my energy/astral legs were detached from my body. I felt the buzzing or vibration all around me. My eyes were closed and this was very exciting! I thought/intended as strongly as I could: "Take me to my spirit guides!" And lo, I actually felt the hands gently start to carry me --whoosh!-- away. I wasn't scared. The hands carrying me felt kind. My eyes were closed the whole time. Then, I felt that we stopped moving and I was let go of by the hands. These parts are hazy in my memory. My recollection is that I was brought to a series of guides. Each time, I peppered the guide with questions about what my mission is in this life, what my purpose is, what I should be doing, how to best help/heal others, etc. I seem to think that I wasn't happy with the answers I was getting, either that or I didn't understand them. So I kept asking to be taken to another one of my spirit guides. After two or three times of this, I tried something else. This time I said, "Take me to a master!" I was taken to what seemed like a room with a large screen on the wall. It seemed like a massive electronic display screen, like of a computer. There was a female voice that came out of it, and it identified itself as my soul. I was given a name of my soul, "Amorphis," I saw the word written on the "computer screen - and shown an image of a beautiful woman with incredible, thick wavy pure white hair, and violet eyes. Then, as if through a door to the right of the screen, came the human figure representation of this person/my soul. I asked all of my usual questions. What came next was interesting. She said that we first need to see if I'm "in compliance." (With what?! And, if she was my SOUL, wouldn't she...already know if I was "in compliance"?) I then lay flat on my back, floating in the room. There was some yellow/white light that started at my feet, and literally "scanned" my body from toe to head. I think the results of the scan were positive - yes, I am in compliance. Then it seemed there was some sort of exercise, as if to see how well I'm able to control my astral body. It looked like a ping pong table. At the other end of it was a little brown mouse. In my right hand I was given what looked like a green, fuzzy tennis ball. I could really feel the tennis ball in my hand, and I remember marveling at how I could still actually have tactile feelings. The little mouse threw what looked like a small black ball, and at first I was confused. Like, How am I supposed to play ping pong when I don't have a paddle? How do I hit the ball back with this tennis ball? But then it seemed like I got the idea that I was just supposed to see if I could control my astral arms enough to reach out to touch the black ball served my way with the tennis ball I was holding. I had to will/intend/feel to make this happen. It was a little hard, and when my arm was stretched out really far, it was as if I could really feel a strain or tightness in my astral upper arm, like around my bicep. After a couple times of successfully touching the ball, it was as if the ping pong table started floating up into the air, and tilting downwards, so that my end was higher and the end with the mouse was low, like the Titanic sinking. The little brown mouse was sliding down, and about to fall off! I quickly reached out my left arm, and the mouse clawed onto the back of my hand, holding on. I reached out my right hand to cup him and scoop him up. Again, I marveled at how I could actually feel the little fuzzy mouse. I was filled with an overwhelming sense of care and concern for the little mouse. I spoke to him softly that it was OK, I've got you, you're OK. We floated back down to the ground together. The next thing I recall, and this may be jumbled and have occurred at another point, was that I was very excited to be seeing my soul standing before me. I wanted to touch her, hug her. She didn't seem too keen on that idea. Not like she hated me (if it's my SOUL, seriously), but rather that it didn't seem like the kind of thing we were supposed to do. She tentatively held out her right hand, and just let me "shake" her hand at the tips of her fingers, just for a second. I was able to speak, it felt like I was really using my voice, but my mouth was incredibly dry, and I was having trouble speaking fully. It felt like there was something lodged in my throat. Behind me appeared a water cooler. It almost seemed like I was in a medical office, or a clinic. I had a little trouble coordinating my astral body to approach the water cooler, get a plastic cup, and fill it. I was able to taste cool water on my lips, but I couldn't seem to swallow it and quench my parched, very dry throat. There was someone standing right there by the water cooler, a man. I'm not sure if he was some kind of permanent spirit resident, or another projector just passing through, but he said something to me like, "You don't have to actually drink it." I responded that I wanted/needed to drink it because my mouth/throat were so dry! I turned back to Amorphis, and said there was something wrong, in my throat. I was very insistent that this was a problem that needed to be fixed. She had me stand against a wall, facing the room. There seemed to be someone with her - like another sort of spirit guide. But I can't remember clearly what it seemed to be. She said something to the effect of, "If this won't find it/figure it out, nothing will," and she held something in her hand that emitted the same kind of white/yellow light, and "scanned" my upper body (head, neck, etc) from my right to my left. It emitted a vertical beam of light. After that, I'm not sure quite what happened, but shortly thereafter I became aware of the sensation of my physical body laying flat on the bed, while I was still projecting. I thought to myself, still in my astral body, that that was really interesting! I could feel my physical body laying on my bed! It was like having a double or split awareness, like two old-fashioned transparency layers, placed on top of each other. Then suddenly, my experience in the astral plane started to dissolve, and I was fully back in my body. And bonk, was my mouth/throat ever dry.

These were the main things I remember. A few other points:

The last time I was carried by the invisible hands (I think), in the series of me asking to see a guide, I opened my eyes to see who or what had carried me, and to express gratitude. I said thank you, and I saw a woman's back, as she was climbing away, up a cliff face, since she was done, having put me down. She was dressed like an Amazon warrior, her long blond hair in an amazing braid - like the Amazonians in Wonder Woman wore. She was dressed exactly like that. I did not see her face, and she didn't respond in any way when I said thank you to her.

Some of the previous instances of me having asked for my spirit guides:

One instance, it seemed like I was being shown a movie screen. I was confused as to what the important part of it was, like what am I supposed to notice or pay attention to? It seemed like someone was standing with me, behind me, and at that point pointed with their arm, and we zoomed in to see that there was a woman who was very sad and upset about something. I think she was crying. The "movie" we were seeing was panning, but one minute the woman was fine, and the scene cut to something else, and then we see the woman upset. The movie didn't actually show what *happened* such that she started to get upset. That seemed to be the important part I was being shown. That this woman is upset. But the "action" of why she was upset happened off-screen/off-camera. As you can see, all this was cryptic, which is probably why I got frustrated and kept asking for different guides!

Another instance seemed as though I was being shown something in parable form. To the best of my recollection, I was being shown the story of how a father or tribe abandoned it's son/one of its own. It seemed somewhere like Africa. There were what looked like geese flying above, in a certain direction. It seemed like they were called "stone geese." At first there was the pain and horror of the abandonment. Then, there seemed to be this sense that the entire point of the abandonment was to teach the son/child something. For instance, the point of the abandonment was so that the son/child could learn to find his way back. Learn to read the direction the birds were flying, learn which direction to go to return home. That sort of thing. My astral self seemed to have an immense realization about something about this, a connection was made. I saw myself holding something - it looked like a red metal tin - and standing or sitting in my old den in my home I grew up in, in Florida. The realization seemed to be, "I was abandoned, too." I'm not entirely sure, but at the time, the realization or connection seemed very clear, and was profound and important, but now of course I don't quite recall.

I have the sense there was much more that I experienced and was shown, but I don't remember.


14 June 2020

out of body experience - astral projection

Again, laying in bed in the morning trying to get some more sleep. Twilight in and out. Suddenly felt vibrations, as if "falling into" vibrations, like a switch was flipped. Since I wasn't out yet, I tried to use the rope pulling technique. Seemed to experience astral noise, clutching hands, etc., ignored it all. When out, asked clearly this time, "Take me to a spirit guide who will answer all my questions verbally in a way that I can understand." Hoped this would get me past the "interpretive dance" stage, as it were. Long journey, it seemed, being carried. Opened my eyes and seemed to be carried by a massive bird of prey, like a hawk or a falcon. Seemed to see other such birds below us flying in the air. I assumed they were carrying other people. Then, I seemed to have a short little helper person who was taking me to see someone specific. There was what seemed like a small hut/teepee, metal scaffolding covered by what looked like black plastic bags. At first I thought it was a weird creature. I almost ran into it, was chastised by my helper to not approach it myself or too quickly. I apologized, saying I'm trying to control my astral body. It wasn't a creature, it was the small teepee with a man sitting inside it. This was all kinda weird. I remember my helper being like, "Well, you said VERBALLY so I had to bring you to this guy." She approached him politely and humbly asked if he would please be willing to speak with me. He said he was too busy! He appeared to me as a muscular man with long hair, in his 60s perhaps, but very fit. Spoke in an Australian accent. Like a beach/surfer dude. Very nice but said too busy to talk to me, gave me a list of things he had to do right then. Turning to leave, it seemed like I saw a long line of people/things waiting to speak to him. So, WTF? Did he just put me off for some reason, but was actually taking questions from others? I felt lost and upset. Again had trouble using my astral voice to speak. Closed my eyes and said, "Take me to a MASTER" who will answer me verbally in a way I can understand, or who will tell me my mission (I can't remember my exact wording). Felt myself being carried again. Tried licking my lips and swallowing repeatedly to be able to speak better. Then the discomfort became so great and my attempts at trying to fix it so intense that I was back in my body. Or woke up, who knows.

Additional note:

Did see melting hands phenomenon.


23 June 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection

NOTE: Between this morning and the last time written about, I had two additional *brief* possible OBEs. One of which involved me trying the "roll out" method so I could tool around here on earth for a bit. I rolled onto the floor next to my bed. I felt so tired I decided to just fall asleep. Problem was that I thought I was still in my body! I thought to myself, Oh well, at least when I wake up again on the floor I'll know something weird happened! I woke up in bed, obviously.

Felt/heard vibrations on and off. I remember laying in bed and touching my tongue to my teeth, confirming to myself I was awake and in bed. I think I may have asked for help getting fully out of my body. The first thing I remember is that I felt like my right hand/arm was loose. The vibrations/sound seem to start and stop, so that's probably why I mentally asked for help to get out. It seemed like I was being helped/lifted out of my body, I felt hands on both sides of me. Lifted up toward the ceiling of my room. It seemed like I could see my ceiling fan. I was afraid I was going to be lifted right into it, even though I knew it wasn't my physical body, I still didn't want to be lifted into it. I didn't really have the chance to think/command where I want to go. Instead, the hands that helped me out of my body seemed to turn my body so instead of laying horizontally on my back, I was vertical. Almost seemed like I was being shoved into my closet, which I didn't want. Then I felt like I was being pushed directly downwards, like into the apartment of my downstairs neighbor. I was like, well, I guess I'll see what her apartment looks like. But instead of emerging into her apartment, it was my house in Florida where I grew up. There was a blonde woman sitting on the loveseat, wearing a green shirt. Her hair was in a ponytail. She was very pretty and was a young woman. I asked, Who are you? She said her name was Kimmy. I said, Hey! Just like that show I'm watching! She said she's here to talk about my schedule for my classes. Then I asked, What are you? Not just who, but what. Like, what kind of entity is she. She didn't seem to either want to answer that question, or that the information wouldn't make sense to me. She said a word, but it sounded like a nonsense word. I was also marveling at how I could see what looked like my old house. We went to sit out on the patio. When I was about to take my seat at the table, some weird creature attached itself to my right upper arm/shoulder. It was green, had something resembling a large frog head but had a body more like a slug. I didn't like it and it didn't seem like a good thing. I was trying to use the techniques I've read about, verbally and forcefully commanding it to leave. Leave me! I banish you! I command you to leave my space! Things like that. I was very upset about the thing on my arm, but the blonde woman didn't seem concerned. She began to make movements like she was going to start offering me assistance. By this point I was trying to scream the thing away from me as loudly as I could, trying to use my astral voice. I may have actually been making sounds IRL in my physical body, because eventually I woke myself up.


24 June 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection

This morning, I tried to put myself in that "half awake half asleep" state, which seems to be triggering the vibrations. It took awhile, at least an hour or two, to get to that place where the vibrations started. I got out, felt hands on both sides of my body again. I felt happy and reached out with my fingertips and held their hands, one on each side, as they carried me. I asked to see the same woman I saw yesterday, the one who wanted to talk to me about the schedule for my classes. That seemed important! Like, hey, we're finally getting somewhere, they're going to teach me stuff! I looked up. It was almost like I was being carried on something like a stretcher - because I was floating flat, horizontally, lower to the ground. We were outside of a building. It was snowing, and I opened my mouth and tasted some of the large snowflakes that were falling. My helpers today were an older white man, who seemed to have a mustache, and a kinda chubby middle aged Asian man. One knocked on the door, and we went inside. It almost seemed like a warehouse or like the back area of a storefront or something. They asked, first, alright, what are all your questions? What do you want to know? Since I'd asked about the schedule for my classes, it seems they wanted to get clear on everything I wanted to know first, as a first step. I said, so many things! I began to list all of my questions, like who am I? Why am I here? What's my mission in this lifetime? What am I supposed to do? How do I best help people? Is it true that I've been a healer in past lives? Is that what I am in this life? What about the shamanism stuff? Was I also a shaman before? Am I one now? It seemed like they interrupted me at one point, and said, OK, let's start here. Handed me a sheet of paper. One sheet with a lot of paragraphs typed on it. The only word I noticed on it was like halfway down and seemed to be in larger font, like starting a new section, and the word was "Lamb". They said they were taking me somewhere specific. We were on the back flatbed of a pickup truck, driving through a lovely country/rural area/town. I asked where we were. The Asian guy told me a word that seemed to begin with a "V" but I couldn't catch/understand it. I asked, but what is that, is it a planet? Didn't respond. They both seemed amused by all my questions. They said I would see both of them again. I was happy about that. Like, Really?! Because so far I never see anyone more than once! Why is that? Again the amusement with my questions and I don't think I got a response, or I didn't understand/don't remember. I wanted to make sure they heard ALL my questions. So I was like, OK, I just want to make sure you guys KNOW. There were all the questions I was listing before, and I wanted to finish my list of questions. Now I added, What does THIS mean? That I can leave my body? Does this mean anything? Am I to use this type of journey (i.e., astral projection) to also help people, get them information and/or healing? The Asian dude seemed to laugh, and said, "You just went from HERE to THERE" - tapping first with his pointer finger on the right side of my forehead, and then moving it to the left side of my forehead. So: "You just went from HERE" --taps right side of my forehead-- "to THERE" --taps left side of my forehead. I was like, Huh? What do you mean? That's all I remember. I thought briefly about my physical body and got sucked back in.


29 June 2020

Out of body experiences - astral projection

On the way out, I almost seemed "stuck" in my head, and I asked for help getting totally out. Seemed to feel the hands pull me fully out of my body. I said/thought, You know all my questions, now please take me to get the answers! It seemed like two middle-aged white men carrying me. Wearing suits, hats, seemed a bit "retro" almost. Kinda like businessmen, or something. I said thank you. I felt glad, thinking I would finally get all my questions answered. I seem sent or even thrown down somewhere, a large indoor room, onto a very nice/fancy floor. It seemed like a fancy bar of a hotel or something. There were two bartenders behind the bar, both wearing tuxes. I was on the floor, and appeared to be wearing some sort of silky risque outfit. Black stockings, very short black silky "shorts" that barely covered my butt. I looked up after landing on the floor, and there seemed to be a high "wall" of many people, perhaps all men, looking at me and clapping from their booths/chairs. While I was maneuvering on the floor to get myself standing up, while looking around me at my surroundings, I could feel soreness in my body/limbs, like it hurt when I landed.

I walked up to the bartenders and said, Quickly, who can answer my questions?! I don't know how much time I'll have before I get sucked back! They put two drinks on the countertop in front of me. They seemed to say they don't know who could answer my questions. One of the drinks looked like sparkling mineral water. I asked if it was water or alcoholic. I even thought to myself, Well, if it's alcohol maybe I can drink it because I'm not in my physical body (since I have alcohol intolerance - I have a chronic illness). Then there was a man sitting at the bar to my left, he said something about me having been drunk when I was there last time. Seemed like he named an event that took place in 1956. I was like, What? Me? Drunk? The bartenders seemed to agree I was drunk at such & such event. I tried opening my "astral" mouth so I could drink the water/or whatever, and voice properly instead of using telepathy (which is what seemed to be happening). It felt like I did, and then, I focused on the sensation of having opened my mouth, and was back in my body with my mouth open.

Second projection, same morning, just a couple hours later

As I was lifting/floating out of my body, my body seemed to pivot (still floating on my back), so that I was facing north. I was going to ask my helping hands again to take me to get my questions answered, but instead, before I could do that - WHOOOOSH! I shot out like from a cannon! I didn't intend this or try for this, it's just what happened. This was a fun ride, I was whizzing through what seemed like a tunnel or wormhole or something - up, up, up and out. So fast! It almost seemed like there was a light at the other end, and I actually thought to myself, Is there a train coming?! I turned my back in the direction I was going for a bit, and then I faced forward again, and it's hard to describe what I saw. It was like I saw a massive black space, but something formed out of light floating within it. Almost like a transparent black orb with red lights around it. Then, there was an opening, the opening was shaped like a star, and it was surrounded by glowing colorful rainbow lights lights. I went through the star-like-shaped opening. I thought to myself I must definitely be entering an astral world, here. I felt glad and happy. It seemed there were people who knew me who were glad I arrived. It appeared like I just landed in some large, massive indoor space, like a convention center or the entrance to an airport. There was even an escalator. I had no idea who the bonk any of them were. I wound up having a lot of trouble controlling my body here, like floating way up when I wanted to go back down to the floor, and my body became incredibly elongated. I was basically Gumby. The people (or whatever they are) helped "compress" my body back for me. They had me floating on my back, and told me to relax and control my breathing. It was like I could actually feel them pushing the "extra leg" length back into my upper legs. I could feel it and it was uncomfortable and weird, but not that bad. But, it seems they compressed me too much, because now I was too short! My head came up to everyone's waist level, so that was annoying. It seemed like they were standing around a tall table/countertop, starting to celebrate with pizza and soda. I asked, Who can answer all my questions?! Someone was like, Gosh, I don't know, no one can answer all that here. I was like, WHAT?! No one?! Not a guide or a master or some really wise person?! It seemed like the one I was talking to got an idea of someone I could talk to. I forget or couldn't understand the name. As everyone was gathered to eat, and me too short, I asked, Do you all know who I am? Then I made the mistake of thinking about worrying about going back to my body. So of course then I was back in my body.


30 June 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection

NOTE: Seemed to have a few brief ones this morning, the one I type below was the last/longest one, although it was also way too short

It felt like I managed to project from inside a dream. I did not feel the helping hands, even when I stated where I wanted them to take me. I felt movement, and I knew I was traveling in a certain direction, but I did not feel hands carrying me. I guess if you project from inside a dream, maybe the hands don't show up. What I said was, "Take me to someone who will teach me how to heal myself and others." I have grown tired of not getting straight answers to my questions, so I'm done waiting for explicit guidance. I had been thinking to myself, maybe part of the "lesson" here is that they won't answer my questions because I need to learn to not wait for them to tell me what my mission is, I just need to choose a mission. I have no idea, that's just one hypothesis I have, regarding why they won't just freaking TELL ME, since I'm asking about it quite directly. Anyway, I moved for what seemed like a long time, and I even wondered, why is this taking so long? Are we there yet? I finally arrived at what seemed like the "get on" point for a carnival ride. There was a crowd milling about, like in a long, snaking line, to get on a ride. The little amusement park cars (all linked together) were on my left. In front of me was a Black woman. It almost seemed like she was running the ride, or some sort of authority figure. Not too old, like in her early 30s perhaps. She seemed the one in charge, the one I was supposed to go talk to. I asked her if she knew who I was, like if she understands why I'm there, what I'm looking for. She seemed to interrupt me and told me to look down. I was confused. What was of significance? Water stands on the floor? No idea. Then she told me, You're covered with it. I said, What, sweat? I couldn't understand what she was trying to convey to me. I thought I'd failed the first "lesson" already! She almost seemed patiently rolling her eyes at me, like, OK, she's not getting it... she began leading me through the crowd, we were going somewhere. I don't know where, because I was suddenly back in my body again.

I read through this thread with interest. What you guys are describing and call "retrievals" we in the shaman world call it psychopomp work - helping people cross over after they die. What we call "soul retrievals" is bringing back lost soul parts for people who are still alive! Thank you for these descriptions =)

                       
Edit: Here is one of my favorite videos pertaining to the Shaman and a Shamanistic way of being:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=17&v=JNloOTQoRzA&feature=emb_logo

Yes, I love Michael Harner! One of the authors I recommended. His book _The Way of the Shaman_ is a true classic. I remember watching this video a couple years ago a few months after I began journeying. I will be curious what you experience using drumming. Some shamans also dance and/or use rattles.

The funny thing, tho, is that when I started projecting a few weeks ago, I *expected* that I would see my regular crew of guides. Anything I expected, didn't happen. So at least I know that my "expectations" didn't influence what I saw! I appreciate the link you posted to the discussion of tests and challenges. I'm really stumped so far to understand what's happening in my astral projections. I have very clear intentions and questions, and I just don't see what's so hard about giving me some straight answers!

On that note, is there anywhere in this forum where people can post transcripts of their AP experiences (I type everything out in a Google Doc) to get feedback/analysis from others? Maybe some of you, who have been doing this for a long time, will recognize certain things. Like, Oh, what's happening here is XYZ. They're trying to teach ABC, etc. I'm still so new to the forum I haven't totally gotten the lay of the land, yet. Since I have only had ~7 APs over the past month, my Google Doc of those adventures isn't too long, yet! Not overwhelming reading =)

But if so, I'd be grateful for any insight, just let me know where it would be appropriate to put it. Thank you! Altho I've only been "here" for a short time, I'm quite happy with how kind and welcoming people are being!

Thank you, Lumaza, I think that "phasing" might be how some shamans access non-ordinary reality. I hope you're right about encountering similar teachings, etc., during AP as with journeying. I'm quite stumped so far, because nothing is the same! Completely different locations, "guides," and methods of communication. I thought for sure, when I lifted up out of my physical body for the first time a few weeks ago (well, technically I did it once quasi-accidentally in high school, but not since), and I said/thought, Take me to my spirit guides! The helpful invisible hands came and carried me off, but I saw nothing and no one familiar. A real head-scratcher.

Nameless, we all have different "senses" that either capture our conscious attention, or lull us into a subconscious "transition" state, or trigger unconscious receptivity. Everyone has a different "pattern". A great book to discuss this and guide you through figuring out your pattern is The Open Mind by Dawna Markova. This is helpful to know, because you may learn that a different method will help you tap into the unconscious. Not everyone benefits the most from the same method! Some people use sound/drumming, others respond to movement, others visual input, for example, to go into trance. So, auditory might be more "conscious" perception for you, and thus drumming wouldn't be helpful for you to enter trance. E.g, I have a hard time listening to podcasts. I get distracted and often start daydreaming or my mind wanders, because I have nothing to LOOK at! There's no visual input. Visual seems to keep me conscious/paying attention. Just auditory starts sending me somewhere else. Some people need to move or pace to think, or stay focused. Some people need to doodle while listening to a lecture, for example, to "encode" the information. A really fascinating story from the book is how someone was doodling while listening to someone talk. Then he was unable to remember anything that had been said. So she asked him to retrace the doodle he just drew, and the act of retracing the doodle brought back all the information he encoded to his conscious awareness.

I'm always very happy to talk about any regarding shamanism, and definitely interested in figuring out the relation between shamanic journeying and astral projection. I hope this conversation with you all can continue =)

Hi everyone. I'm new here, but I saw the discussion about shamanism and OBEs and I wanted to chime in.

I've been going on shamanic journeys for the past 1.5 years, approximately. I started off by going to a guided group meditation on the winter solstice, and the experience was profound but unnerving. I wanted to look more into it, so found a local shamanic practitioner who teaches. I've been working on it ever since, and am currently in the healer's practicum (e.g., doing soul retrievals, power animal retrievals, that sort of thing).

Just this month, I started astral projecting (I did it once in high school, but dismissed the experience). I wondered if I would encounter the same guides that I do while journeying, but it's completely different. There doesn't seem to be any overlap, so I'm really wondering about this. The OBEs are accompanied by things that will be familiar to you all - vibrations, feeling parts of my "body" lift/float up, the invisible "helping hands" carrying me where I want to go, or sometimes shooting straight up and out like I'm blasting through a wormhole. When I'm out, it seems like I'm seeing, hearing, and physically feeling things like I normally would, if not a little weird/distorted/unusual!

But shamanic journeying is very different for me. There's no vibrations or "leaving" my body, although the entire idea of shamanism is that you enter non-ordinary reality - the 'walkers between the worlds'. I use drumming (sometimes it's been live, but when I'm home by myself I use a recording through headphones). And it feels like regular visualization, but the kind where things seem to "pop into" my mind's eye, rather than me consciously driving a narrative/daydream, if that makes sense. Like, Where did that come from in my mind's eye? Where did that idea come from? Why am I "imagining" that? My very long "early period" of experiences were very classic shamanic initiation journeys: dismemberment, being burned alive, being cannibalized, being ripped apart, being put back together/rebuild, etc. I knew nothing about shamanism when I started, and didn't read up about it. These were just the things I saw in my head when I journeyed, so there's really very little way I could have come up with that content "on my own" since I had no idea that's what indicates "initiation" in shamanism! It was the practitioner I was learning from who had to interpret them for me and say, Hey, you're experiencing an initiation. You're being initiated *as* a shaman! I had no idea.

Since I'm still so new to astral projection, I've been trying the past month to get answers to all my questions from those I encounter while I'm out. So far no luck! I can't seem to find anyone who will give me a straight answer. But at least I can clearly "hear" people's responses. Eventually, I'll find out what the relation is between the shamanic journeys I experience, and the astral projection (what seems like the proper/traditional out of body experience). But I'm still pretty clueless =)

Anyway, thanks for the discussion! Great writers about the topic include Michael Harner, Sandra Ingerman, and Caitlin Matthews, for starters, in case people want to read more.