Messages

I think Logic is right. Once I was asked about this and couldn't come up with better idea than various muscle groups relax not exactly the same time and the difference between their tension trigger a spinal reflex.

There are flexor muscles and extensors to move the same articulation. If, for example, the flexor muscle(s) remain highly tensed but tension of the extensor(s) decrease above a given level a reflex movement is triggered.

It should be similar to the situation when Major Tom and I come on over to you and while Tom hold you down ruthlessly I start to beat your knee with a giant rubber hammer until you kick forward lol.

Maybe you should relax before sleep / projection or if you already do that then you need do it in an another way to prevent all this to happen.

It seems very interesting what you wrote, Catherine (you seems to be a real astral people here), but I am embarrassed to say that I can't completely understand it, even after re-reading for several times. But it's obvious you have some knowledge that could shed light on some gray areas in my mind.

I've already supposed that the vortex is the astral version of the "silver cord" and could function as a traveling tunnel but I can't imagine how I'm supposed to perceive it directly. How do you see it above your head? Is it a clairvoyance thing?

I thought that all my cords was "etheric" - even so the fakes before they ceased to exist and replaced by an empty dream picture. What do you think about this?

The cord is seen as two cones then the one bringing us away the other bringing us home.

Exactly! I mean it should be that way. The astral chord is supposed to have a configuration that made by two cones pointing to each other. As far as I know this structure can't be seen. (At least I've never seen astral cables....neither I've tried to). How did you come up with this conclusion?

[the vortex] is better formed with the da Vinci pose with the male storage centre (solar plexus to sacral chakras) and the two legs also . This is a stronger 5 pointed star structure.

I think that the vortex is formed by neuronal loops of the brain but first a dissociated state is required to attain by withdrawing the self into the abdomen. I assume legs is for energy support but I have no idea what this da Vinci pose is.

It becomes more evoslved when we open the vortex ourselves on three points and can be seen like the cone you describe so well .

As far as I remember I didn't describe it yet lol. Anyway, your merkaba meditation seems very interesting but I'm afraid it's too mystic for me. How did you have "witnessed" this configuration? How can I do similar things without lunar magnetism, electric suns, and suchs? I know they are metaphorical pictures that meant to support imagination that control subtle processes. I've done similar meditation like the 5 sun.

Let us help each other there is so much to learn .

Exactly. Thank you.

>>> upstream

Hello Carlos,

In theory, the lower dantien / hara regio is about midway between your navel and @sshole and has the size of your prostate (lool I've imagined that you are Carlos Castenda...ok sorry).

However, in practice (at least for me) it wanders around inside my abdomen. If it is not the Hara then you could find the spot I'm talking about most easily by raising energy through your legs in Robert Bruce style. After some sweep you should feel this spot pulsating.

It seems to me the more quicker you feel the pulsation the more apt is your current state for an OBE but I'm not absolutely sure about this because they are simply too many other factors out there to consider.

For me the word supine means laying on my back.

I may add that being physically exhausted before bedtime help to attain this state. I've done a lot of headstand and they helped a lot too - not just for ASP. But for me it's somehow weird to see someone to pursue this uncomfortable state in its pure form.

Carlos, I hope you are aware that there are easier methods for astral projections just as Catherine has pointed out.

My best method for getting into SP was sleeping about 2 hours, raising energy into the lower dantien / hara for about half hour, then fall asleep supine with attention fixed on that spot.

Accumulating energy in the hara would increase your chance to get into ASP, which seems to be only a side effect amongst other sings of increased REM power, like seeing more hypnagogics and having an easy way to go into REM-sleep directly.

I agree with Tom. The border like structure around the images also show that your experience was more than regular hypnagogic imagery. No doubt, this is partly due to your "usual meditation/clear mind exercise." You may ask yourself what you have been done that night differently regarding your subtle feelings and moods.

You just have to be absorbed in the feeling of pressure and, in general, in every sensation you could focus on. This will intensify your trance.

Ok manuel, the actual fun has happened after I started to hack some of my zooms by deliberately misdirecting the dream-eyes. Something went wrong and I trapped inside a dreamy scenario. I tired to stabilize but my sight became distorted and the world started to spin. I decided to capitulate from the dream by feeling for my sleeping body and moving something around it like I would be inside a little tornado.

I rolled out at my right and crawled away from the bed. I felt the pull right after I got my sight and noticed that the mattress is perpendicular to its original orientation. I tried to grab onto the pull with my hand - my only trick to see cable like structures after separation. I felt a smooth, gut-like cord that had a thickness of a crayon. I thought it's connected to a point somewhere on my neck but when I felt for it, much for my surprise, I found the cable attached to the upper part of my sternum (on the dream body).

The cord felt tensed up to the point of snapping as I was about to get further away from the bed by moving slowly but deliberately to get into the farest corner of the room and gain some stability. Then I heard a snapping sound and thought "It is like when a muscle become limp by loosing its etheric charge." The cable was gone but I noticed a little piece that remained in my hand. I happened to had no other idea for further examination than put this piece into my mouth. "It tastes like physiological salt solution...Hm. A very original interpretation indeed." Then I was awake again. Too much thinking after separation I suppose.

Yes, you're almost right manuel but... I'm still not sure whether it was "astral" or not, since it was fake. Or have I done something wrong lol? I ate only a little bit. I'm getting frightened here.

yes manuel lol but they were fake

Mendel, I suppose higher beings induce music indirectly by manipulating our emotiosphere. Also there are beautiful places out there where the landscape emanate music. I think music is only one part of our unconscious attempt to interpret complex states.

Hey Tom,

The track I have mentioned is 'Break & Enter.' There is an effect of door opening. That part.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000003Z3W/104-2286989-8019154?v=glance

I have this album in mp3 and for some weird reason I like it. It is weird because I try to be away from destructive things and apparently this music is very destructive. But in the first place, it is full of primal energy (sort of an industrial power) that can be used for other purposes.

BTW I've heard other concrete music from Madonna to Mozart. The most beautiful I could name was a jazz remix of Pachelbel's Canon.

In my first years I've heard only Gregorian type music. I think this music is the most closest to the composite noises. For me symphonic orchestration is the most common. I like to remix them on fly.

I think the music is similar in origin to "musicogenic epilepsy" as I wrote about it before. The pre-OBE states show many signs of self-induced temporal epilepsy, and the music is most likely an expression of the seizure itself.

The music suppose an increased brain activity in the temporal lobe where the auditive cortex resides and the brain forced to interpret this activity as music. I rather wonder why this music ceases briefly after separation.

Mostly I hear classical pieces but in a frightening episode of sleep paralysis once I've heard Prodigy. So the emotional connection is very likely. I think hearing wind like noises and music before separation have the same origin since it is very easy to decompose the music into a pulsating static noise.

Hello catmeow!

There is a weird disease called autoscopy which some people seem to mistake for OBE. It is very similar to what your fiend experience. I have had some LD in which I was seen myself flying from above but apparently was not conscious enough to realize this fact. Or could it be some post-interpretation of the original experience?

Sure. Without doing so a great fraction of our lucid b&w dreams would be painfully short. Our unconscious mind know the way how to keep up non-lucid b&w dreams by continuing the original mentation regardless of their wavering visual quality. To preserve non-REM dreams, this trick should be coped.

As for the ideal inner exercises, standard lucid dreaming techniques have to be applied in an optimized order, which I believe starts by (1) grabbing things and anchoring yourself to objects around, (2) focusing on little details of an extremely close object (make 40Hz gamma activity of the visually alert brain) like observing tiny wrinkles on your palm, etc.

And yes, (3) shooting for more awareness with as much confidence as possible is very important part of this activating process. Don't let be fooled by the false impression that your current level of awareness is sufficient. If you would be totally conscious in a stable enough dream then it would be colorful and not enclosed at all.

Also there is a little invention I'm somewhat proud of, that is, (4) moving slowly but judiciously toward the most brighter places available in your dreamscape at that holy moment. There are always be places in our dreams that seem to be more brighter when we chose to look around. I mean distant places not a lamp you could switch on, lol. Lamps wont work very well because your brain needs more time to produce something (5-Meo-DMT) or reach a new stable state to function. So you should approach these distant places with great care and slowness by moving deliberately from dim to more brighter places. This even could lead you out of the ordinary lucid states into the more collective regions of the "astral" where the sun always shine.  

The problem is that b&w dreams tend to be enclosed from their beginning and the opening up of the dreamscape (which is sign of more stable and collective experiences) needs more arousal and organized brain activity. The brain try to hold into its initial state - this is the reason why moving towards more brighter spaces is so effective and why you need more awareness and stability before your fully activated brain can shut off. At this point you are free.

Also be aware that flying could destabilize dreams.

However, if your question refers to ordinary dreams than you should sleep lesser to have more compact sleep stages.

I have seen (or felt) the cord at least 50 times and broken it consciously at least 5-8 times. At the first few occasions I seemed to do this by mere habit which was often freaked me back into wakefulness. As my cord obsessed period is over, apparently without all those conclusions I've hoped for, I'm still not sure about the consequences, but I believe, that breaking the cord is not a healthy practice.

About 90% of my cords was attached to the solar plexus area of my dream body by a fist sized cone. The cord was about 3-5 cm in diameter and couldn't be experienced unless I was looking for why I'm pulled backwards after a successful separation. For me, this is the most aggressive cord type, the only one, that was and still able to terminate an episode. Later I've found a way to form these cords from "outside" by doing breathing exercises near to my body. My goal was to see what impact the cord has on RTZ projections. In this state I still couldn't see but felt my environment fairly well and was able to manipulate my breathing patterns as I have heard myself breathing very loud and from every direction.

No doubt, the plexus cord is the continuation of a viscosus honey like abdominal flow I used to feel at forced "etheric separations." It has components from some of the most strongest rubber-band like threads as well that survive the separation process and seemed to attached on muscles. Sometimes flickering muscles has a tiny cord too. When I've placed one of my dream hand on the base of the cord I felt my hand moving towards the sleeping body. Later I concluded that the cord must have be the interpretation of some vital flow (chi, etheric substance) as I was told. Apparently it a passive sufferer of the separation process and flows back into the body as fas as it could. Now I think this hypothesis could explain only one part of its nature since the "pinch" of the detached somatosensory phantom is should be involved in its formulation.

The second most familiar type of the cord is come out from the neck of my dream body. It is far easier to see because the cord has a tendency to shift upwards and when it reach the height of my upper thorax sight will come inevitably. At this point the cable could be already fake (empty dream picture of the original now ceased sensation) and usually broke off by its own. (The remaining chewing gum like residue even could be eat and tastes like salted water).

Also, I have been observed many fake cords and cord like structures. One type come into play when I move too fast through a window. I suspect the cable is a felt part of the resistance mechanism that try to slow me down in order to render the sensory experiences into a smooth, continuous flow. I've found these cables to work more often when I have an entity attached on my back (a dissociated fragment of my personality I suppose). But it is very rare to see cords attached to my heart area or to the base of my head. I consider the heart cable the only "real" type that could be seen.

GIANT AntiSpyware & PestPatrol have a fairly good reputation as well. GIANT is a very robust all inclusive system but use little resources. It monitors startup entries from the registry, has an user friendly interface and real-time protection against spywares. GIANT also invented the famous SpyNet, "a revolutionary answer to the endless barrage of new spyware software." Shame I use it illegally. But hey, now I make money for them.

also, try this.. not an antispyware but will save enormous time:
http://www.espsw.com/

trallala pam-pa-pam...letsee what... OH NO, oh excrement no...ok bob ive screwed it up again. what? no.. no i mean yes... yes the hypnosis session went wrong.... i wasnt... what did you say? protocol #303 ok thanks man, im already back...see what we can do...i liek this guy..

...

Hello Stephen!

There is no reason to panic. You are in safe.
Please read the following script carefully.
You'll forget it right after you hear it so nod your head when you have done. Good! Now you happy again.

...

excrement excrement excrement excrement seems its working

what? #304? excrement

Hello Don,

you may find this process useful if you want to exercise with the high-tech version of Jung's famous active imagination:
http://emoclear.com/processes/emoactiveimagination.html

happy christmas,
>>> upstream

Haha, I'll see what can I do for you, Stephen - but it has the price. Can you notice how relaxed is your attention now? For some reason you feel sleepy and receptive, inclined to be more forgiving with upstream favorite four-letter words. (Moreover, apparently for no reason, you start to like and use these words...as well as Nay, hehe) How could it be that you have already forgot what you have just read but will act accordingly? Anyway, you will never read this post again.

Hm, what do you refer to exactly? As for the possible EEG-power dynamics behind meditative states see Matti Pitkanen's Spectroscopy of Consciousness. It could be the second testament in psycophyics' bible for the twenty first century. The remaining information are well accepted in sleep physiology so I can't suggest you any particular paper at this moment. Perhaps search for some Tore Nielsen article, but I'm not sure. He should have something about NREM mentation and hypnagogia. "Dreaming and the Brain: toward a cognitive etc etc from Hobson et al. seems to be a primer for sleep physiology. Hope I make sense.

happy holiday,
>>> upstream

Hello Don,

According to Jung the big, ever changing house represents your own and unique self. I may add that these dreams come forth when we are at the threshold of some profound inner discovery.

good luck,
>>> upstream

Ususally black & white dreams mark low arousal levels of the brain. Since they are associated with non-REM sleep early dreams tend to occur in such way.

In fact, many of our lucid dreams develop from stage #2 non-REM sleep. Think about those moments when you blindly fumble around the bed or lose your sight in a lucid dream!

Premature hypnagogic images from the upper theta have similar arousal characteristics. Generally, theta images are vague and thought like and need the supplement of high alfa and beta in order to show up colors more details.

Bands of the EEG power act like boxes. Although the summ total of the brain power remain the same, when we change arousal level at will the they dance a weird pattern between these "boxes." I suppose, even high power gamma is involved temporarily, especially in trakata or inner silence type excercises.

Of course, these physiological level could be a storehouse of various psychic phenomena from remote viewing to astral projection, but this theory explain the original question nevertheless.

I wouldn't mind to see the continuation of this interesting conversation but I'm somewhat triggered to do this flick. Frank, seems to me that your "F15-experience" has captured the essence of a typical projection, something I'm sure you already know about but from the point of view of your particular experience and for others as well it may be of some interest.

So, I think the stages of a typical OBE are:

1. shifting awareness into a permissive state - this doesn't require the sense of moving although it could help (stage of disidentification)
2. creating and leaving the dream representation of this state by separating and moving in a somatosensoric phantom (stage of dissociation and emanation of consciousness)
3. returning back to this origo due to the collapsion of the projection episode or moving back to the bed where the episode has started (retraction of consciousness)

The permissive 1st state has some stability itself. It is easy to project from this state each and every time the dream fades until sooner or later it will fall back into the waking state and the projection ends. In a typical postseparational state we can't see our body because the projection has already occured: our perception has shifted along the axis of consciousness to made the permissive, thus, except the case of an RTZ projection we do not share the same space anyomre that our physical body occupies.

In a typical OBE the preseparational state is represented by the dream space that surrounds the dream bed. I suppose that each and every "layer" of the human aura (energy body) has a dream representation with their own time and space properities that are progressively further away from the RTZ. It is like a multi layered sphere which is projected around the self by the interplay of the senses of our mind we reflect our self into at that time.

A couple of weird things can happen when I chose to move back to the bed in an OBE like dream. If I were not to do anything special to reach the RTZ it's sure I wouldn't seen any physical body at all, just an empty bed with some messy bedclothes. This shows how dream interpretation and expectations works. Another example when I sometimes see see an impression on the bed like I have just woken up. But it is very rare to see all the sings of a close to RTZ perception: sort of a pulsating grey mist and/or flashing images of my body from some weird fixed points of view.

I think it is very important to understand that moving the dream body is more than simply a progression in the 3D space of that given dream. This is especially true when we are still close to the moment of separation and to the bed (or in the case of a multi-layered projection to the space where we feel our last body layingt). Actually, when we walk away from our body or fly back into it a dimensionally shift occurs. This is similar to the first, Phasing like step of the projection which made the preseparational state and causes our difficulties to observe the physical body. The latter shift, however, occur by a dimensiomnally more inclined vector so to speak.

In rare cases when I walk back to my bedroom I would see myself getting out of my bed, sort of a time echo I think, in which I see myself from the previous or a later episode of the same projection. This has to do someting with the fact that there are projections in which every act of separation and reseparation occur in the same way - into the same direction and by the same style as they were actually results of the very same act of dissociation and share a common root. The same root then diverges into various episodes that occur at the same time but remembered sequentially afterwards.

Note, that every center of our self is determined by the energetic base of our memory we use in that state and our currently experienced reality is projected from this point by our senses. To share our experiences first we should interpret the raw sensory data by associating them with upstream memories that we can speak of. We couldn't share our experiences in a controlled manner unless at waking when we use our waking state bound memory. And this memory is feed through the brain so experiences that the brain cannot understand cannot be remembered.

I have to note, too, that this permissive root-like state has a tendency to shift "centrifugally" (further away from the RTZ) by every successive episode of separation and this effect has a great impact on the state bound memory. Since I think our waking memories are stored in the EM-patterns of the bioplasmic field this shift explains why is it more easy to remember the first episodes. Unfortunately, in most cases, the projected consciousness simply collapses before we can give a go for a controlled return which render more difficulties to observe the dynamics of these root states. I suppose Rubert Bruce has wrote about these things in his astral book(s) so I don't want to repeat trivialities.

My favorite method to "symmetrize" an episode of emanation (in order to restart it or create a new dream layer) is began by flying off from the ground to ensure I'm totally passive toward potential "external" forces. Then, before I state my intent aloud to get taken back into the exact position of my sleeping body (twin method, Castaneda) I isolate my attention from the current dream environment by observing minute details on my palm. The more OBE like the original dream was the more closer I'll be to the bed when I finally pressurised onto the ground after some brief erratic flight and twirl. At this point I'm in or very close to the (last) preseperational state. Now I'm able to start a new episode by detaching a phantom body. Another possibility is to project directly into the "astral" by expanding my consciousness upward and outward like a fountain.

Interesting thread. Makes me really hungry for some definitions. As far as I remember I've always tried to emphasize their role on these forums. Yes, I have done some weird experiments here but every time I saw some holy efforts to reach a consensus I was there.

However this conversation seems to reach its natural climax and I'm afraid there is no hope for fulfilling its true purpose. So far I see neither practical nor theoretical achievements and my hope for getting some solid definitions has been gradually diminished by time. (BTW, what the hell is that "BE-link"??)

I like definitions but not verbiage. Most of us know for sure that beliefs create our reality and this simple fact is either true in respect to the person and our society. However our individual thoughts are fairly powerless and they don't seem to be capable for more than mirroring our personal beliefs. Repetition of the current human knowledge is the only way I know through we can consciously and collectively mold the world around us. And this knowledge is based on solid definitions.

Now I'll show you one of my nightmare about consensus reality.

When a group of people reach consensus about something preferably within a field that previously was only a playground of hazy ideas then surely some brand new ways of further exploration will open up - seemingly by mere coincidence. For instance, there is an enormous number of instruments from detectors to CRT displays that seem to build on one simply principle, that is, using two perpendicular EM-fields in order to accelerate and deflect ions in vacuum. This principle may be laughably silly yet the number of instruments that have been constructed on it are astonishingly great. If it is not magic then at least suspicious. Is it really about one of the fundamental principle of nature or a collectively accepted belief of humankind?

I vote for the latter and my screenplay goes like this: when mankind as a whole has decided to substitute the old crystal balls with monitors a group of independent scientists somehow came up with this idea. It was not far for them because they have dealt with ions which they never seen. It was easy to convince each other by doing some math tricks within a system that define itself to build the first prototypes. Thought they were lame at first, at least they were worked and our new beliefs about the nature around us was further established. At the end of the day they assured some politicians to built more universities in order to teach us how to explain all this to our mothers.

At present times the more fluid playgrounds of humankind are simply out of our scope. They have sank into the mist of some coexisting past and future, or placed outside of the range of our instrumentally extended senses into the unknown of astral territories. Now we are at the verge of a new science, astral exploration and such things. But don't forget that astral projection as possibly the most direct shortcuts for our individual evolution is one of the oldest spiritual practice of humankind. However, this time will be the first in the known history of humankind when we are going to do it together without hue and cry.

We simply need a firm consensus on the basics to define our farest reaches we dare to believe in. Then we will gain enough coherence to rip those brand new ways around into the formless chaos - "unconsciously" and without "efforts." So just go on and do those definitions as generating a new belief system could be our most important job here at the Astral Pulse Forums.

Toriack:

Flying through walls may be tricky at first. I advice you to look away when a wall approaches you. Expect penetration and don't fear the impact. In this state the walls acts like massless visual symbols from a computer game that went wrong.

Before you arrive to your destination you may lost your sight and find yourself in a brown, tinkling void or perceive incomprehensible visions. If you focus on something your flight will disrupted. If you lost every visuals you will likely wake up. Therefore you may have to detach your visual awareness from your environment by focusing minute details on your palm.

Make your intention very clear by speaking it aloud before you let go. Hover off and don't interfere the force you find yourself being carried by. Turn down your expectations about which route should the force take you on. Let your energy body to do this job without any interference on your part.

loco:

I think CC's books are fictions and his life was a liar. Would I like to be wrong about this! For me labeling people as stalkers and dreamers seems just as artificial as judging them by the color of their pubic hair. Although he was clearly a talented dreamer I've found little application of his knowledge. Twin dreaming is one of them. Zooming, speaking aloud our will and emotional processing are another. They are not invented by Castaneda though. What I'm grateful for is his most original exercises: the palm based stabilizations and attention drives.

In order to discuss the differences between LD & OBE first we should define those states by summoning their attributes. This is something I'm not interested in. Some people may say that that every dream is an OBE because when we are dreaming we don't focus on our physical bodies. Blameless, however a more useful distinction would be based on the level of dream awareness or on the degree in which our dream personality is matching with our waking personality.

Others would emphasize the role of our awareness. It seems true that if we do think a lot our awareness is internalized therefore we project our expectations on our environment and can't perceive it as it is. Expectations and beliefs can be useful as well. They are our most powerful state makers. If we believe we having an OBE we unconsciously direct ourselves to get contact with energies and experiences we consider apt for an OBE.

At our current developmental stage, I think, we are electromagnetic patterns in the Earth's magnetosphere. The physical body is our instrument to localize our attention, to perceive and manipulate the physical matter. The energy body is an interface that condensates from the Earth's magnetosphere at the exact spot where we believing we are.

We can picture the energy body in the space-time as a cone. Its top conclude on the etheric body that remains bounded to the organism while its board part that corresponds to the dream representation is projected into the magnetosphere. From the point of view of a waking observer this part of the energy body may looks like a giant cloud. In the case of a lower level astral projection this cloud have various spurs and threads overlapping and connecting the physical counterparts of our dream environments. It may has some independent seeds as well. Energy bodies of upper level astral experiences has the size of the entire Earth's magnetosphere. Their lower level segments mark the trajectory on which they have been blossomed into time and space.

Due to the fact that our senses shut down gradually at the verge of sleep we identify ourselves with our body even after we have fallen asleep. Just before the felt experience of separation takes place we still believe that we are inside our body - which is I believe never the case. After the paralysis set in we are capable to separate in the old-school way. This will results in a classic out of body experience that may or may not be an RTZ-OBE. It depends on the segment or layer of the energy body in which the informational pattern (called waking personality) is reside in at that moment of separation. And it depends of course on our expectations about our current environment.

Most of our OBEs are not real time zone OBE at all. Beside strong supporting beliefs, RTZ-OBEs requires high awareness, externalized focus and special attention training as Castaneda has described. If we woke up around the onset of paralysis in those parts of the energy body that are dense enough to perceive the RTZ our vision may be likely present before separation. Near the physical body the dense parts of the energy body (the tip of the cone) is surrounded by etheric substance which is bounded to the organism and can't follow the identification point more than a 1-2 meters (it has its own layers and densities).

We have a natural layer in the energy body to operate in with a tendency to gradually shifts away from the RTZ as we get more trained. It moves away from the RTZ in every single OBE session as well. In most cases re-separation is not enough to restore an RTZ-OBE. We need to re-condensate a proper energy body from the magnetosphere for getting a real RTZ-projection by exercising our attention and will, and by tricking our beliefs.

As for the dream body. As I see it, it's only a comforting factor that mimics the physical body, or more exactly the etheric body. It exists only when we are aware of it. Also, it is an interface through we could manipulate our consciousness/etheric body. We can do it more efficiently than through the physical body. In contrast to the physical body the dream body instantly mirrors the state of the etheric body which is the monitor of our entire energy body. As being the cone of the energy body like a tip of an iceberg the etheric body is a manifestation of our current energetic makeup and personality.