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Hi again Jeff,

me too, 1998 -

Also - every 2 or three weeks is about right, more or less. Sometimes 2 in one week but then sometimes nothing for a few months.

Patty

Jeff -

I'd be interested in the shareware. When do you anticipate it being ready?

Patty

The 10% thing is an urban myth, according to a lot of people. (i think the myth started a long time ago - when we thought that a certain type of brain activity was all that the brain was used for - but now that we recognize all the different things that our brain does we can see that we use basically the whole thing.)

Higher self - I use that term sometimes. I don't really know what I mean by it, heh. I think that we are connected to something greater and beyond ourselves. Maybe God, maybe something else.  I think something sustains us and gives us life.  I guess I think that we can look beyond the limits of our own thoughts for guidance. I also use other terms for it. Moen calls it his disc. Monroe called it his I/there. Some people call it God. Some people call it a guardian angel.  I think it is just a term to evoke the idea of another external source of help.

About the space between thoughts- That is interesting about Deepak's comments. A friend of mine yesterday mentioned meditating on the silence between thoughts. I think that is a good way to put it! I think that when we focus on the silence inside, we sometimes have great insight. I recently had a falling out with a friend and it was eating me up. I kept trying to tackle the problem with my conscious thoughts, "What am I going to do? how am I going to handle this? Etc" But when I meditated and found a quiet space I was able to simply let the matter go, because something in that quiet space allowed me to realize that that was all I could really do, anyway.

Patty

Systematic, progressive, disciplined ----

No, not me. My instinct tells me that this would be too rigid.

I do feel completely committed to the practice of meditation, and projection attempts, but I will usually do what feels 'right' on any given night. For example, last night the energy circuits didn't 'do' much, so I stopped those after a couple minutes.  I spent the time using prayer to sort through a conflict that I sensed was keeping me from fully relaxing, instead.

Some nights the energy circuits are like fireworks, and it feels like the best way to proceed for a long time. Every now and then I will appeal to guides and helpers to help work out any kinks I am overlooking. This can result in some interesting sensations.  Often, I sense that what I really need in order to maintain balance is a good nights sleep, and on those nights I will simply form intent to remember my dreams and go to sleep.  

Probably some people have more of a routine that they follow. To the extent that I always relax, followed by waiting for /establishing trance, and finding the right space for an exit attempt, I DO follow routine. But the specifics vary greatly from night to night.



Patty

Hi!

I got lousy sleep last night, too.

Welcome!

Patty

I'll write stuff here and there - to reinforce it in my memory. I don't have a specific notebook though,  just scraps by the bed and I have a few things on the computer.  I want to start compiling them. I feel like I would be able to see some real trends if I did that, and also I am afraid that I am going to start forgetting the details of the early ones.

I think writing is a good thing to do, but often I am lazy. I did write down a couple dreams this morning and yesterday - just snatches of memory from them.

Patty

Hi -

Are you asking how many members have tried the AD techniques? I think lots --- though I think everyone has their own little preferences as far as technique.  I certainly try some of RB's methods. His ideas have been quite useful to me. But I don't quite do things by-the-book.

Or are you asking how many devote certain nights to attempts?

I think the answer is still 'lots.'  Most of the members here are pretty serious about making projection a priority in their lives, and over the long haul at that (though some of the contributors might have only short term goals in mind at present.) . I am also going to give it a serious go tonite, after I log off.

Patty

James -

Congrats!  When was the mind travel? Enquiring minds want to know.

About the shrinking thing - are you comfortable with it? I had something like that once during depression, and I would hate to think that you have depression! So in your situation, was it a good feeling, a neutral feeling, or an abandoned feeling?

Patty

Hi Poison Ivy,

I love reading the posts here, too.

And it seems like terminology does get a bit confusing sometimes. WE're trying to communicate things that aren't well defined because they are experiential and subjective --- but usually the idea makes it through the confusion which is good.

I'm 36 too. I didn't happen onto these experiences until a few years ago, though. But I'm getting a little bit of the hang of it, which is really really cool. I think Mobius is right about repetition and I really need to be better about documenting. Hi!

Patty

I kinda think that the more you are able to experience expansion of consciousness (ie the more you have 'spiritual' experiences) the more content you become living here for the value it has.

So you might find that you start to project, and that after a while you realize that physicality has its benefits too and that you really can learn a heck of a lot here.

i don't know how often RB projects.

I have been wondering - is there a story behind your greeting? I like it.

Patty

Hi Dylan.

I checked your profile. I was curious how old you are.  I assume you are out of college since it sounds like you work in computers.

You probably want to buy Robert's book.  That is where you will find the Treatise of OOBE, except in more detail. You can get it for less than 15 dollars. On amazon.com someone is selling theirs for $9.50.

There may be some chapters online. Like I think the New Energy Ways program is online.

In case you're wondering .... One reason I won't give you a more detailed "treatise..."  answer here is because it would be too long. Like the length of a really long book.  Also, I don't remember all the details.  Finally, we all ultimately do our own thing with projecting. So if what you want is a fleshed out version of Robert's methodology, then his writing is the place to go.

Patty

When I pay attention to myself falling asleep (not trying to project) I see that there is a point where I am starting to zone out but I am not asleep yet. Sometimes I get startled by a flash of an image that happens to play out. To me it looks like it's on my eyelids.

If I don't pay attention, (like this week I have been exhausted and wanted to plummet into sleep) I don't notice it,  I just fall asleep.

I always think of those images that occur right before sleep as hypnogogic images.

Why do you ask? I thought they were separate from projection phenomena. Can a person use them?  ( Come to think of it, I guess I use them to keep myself alert - when they startle me they keep me from falling completely asleep.)

Patty

HEY BHIKKU!

I just came across a link (wasn't looking for it, actually was directed there from a skeptics site), about "sacred orgasm."   Turns out there is a very questionable sort of cult in scottsdale, AZ,  surrounding this. The founder charges an arm and a leg to attend a 'meeting' and it ends up being very weird and kinky. The guy apparently tries to sell 'sacred orgasm' as highly spiritual, but it seems like a perversion.

The article was mildly shocking, but I wonder if it suggests that there is a common element in the human psyche to relate sex and spirituality.

If you would like the link, PM me.

Patty

I've never had that experience. But what I have seen is that my experiences change over time --- like I didn't experience the exit for a long time, then I did. For a while, the chakra sensations were one thing, then they modified, and again. Sometimes it feels like once you get the hang of 'how it works' it changes on you.

My advice is to keep working with it see where it takes you.  Give it a couple weeks.

Patty

Another possibility or two about souls... To account for numbers ....

Well, of course 95% of the species that have ever lived on the planet are extinct. So some people may have had incarnations as other earth species. (one of my kids smelled like a puppy for the first few months of her life. hee hee, and one night she yipped in her sleep. Don't tell her I said that!)

Also - there is the idea of splitting souls and joining souls in order to form new souls. Sort of the infinite combinations idea. This might also account for numerous people remembering the same past life.

Patty

Hi Pete,

A couple nights ago I was having a dream about a friend, we were talking about his car or something, and I showed him how I could float backwards (on my back, a few feet off the ground) through a doorway. I could 'feel' the sensation of doing it.

This morning I was dreaming (don't know what) and suddenly, very clearly I heard one of the participants (I won't say who, I'm waiting to see if this person posts this morning - hee hee) from this forum saying "I have to tell them that I had an OBE....'

I looked at my hands in a dream a while ago and they melted.....but I thought I was dreaming; I separately looked at my hands while projecting, and they looked weird but didn't melt....

etc ...

In my opinion all these sorts of things increase when you are bringing more conscious awareness to your dreams. In my opinion even (far) more convincing experiences also happen as you do this. I can only speak on the basis of my experience and what I have read - but I think that everything doesn't fit neatly into dream/lucid dream/obe.  I think it is more that as you are more aware and conscious of this part of your mental processes, you have more of ALL of these sorts of things happen.

So yes, I'd personally say it's a good sign, it means you are bringing more consciousness to your sleep state. My personal framework for thinking about these is different from Robert's, and I think we each have our own little ideas about what might be going on. So someone else might have a different idea about what your experiences represent.

Patty

Thanks, Frank!

I can't tell you how exciting it is to contemplate reaching a different level replete with such interesting people and experiences. Five years? Phhffft. That's nothin.  Though it sounds like you are more diligent, it might take me six. Still, I expect to be engaging in these pursuits for the rest of my life.

I was reading AD last night - and Robert was also talking of how things become more stable.  So, two experiencers giving me the same kind of pep talk -

I feel  pretty psyched!

Patty

I noticed last week that if my legs are touching each other, the sensations are much stronger, rushing up to the base of the spine. If my legs are not touching each other, the energy sensation is much less. Try changing position.

Haven't felt much by way of spasms (maybe one or two now and then) though.

Patty

I don't know if I understand - are you asking why is there a sequential series of steps when going somewhere that is everpresent anyway?

If that is what you're asking - I suppose that maybe there is no need to do a sequence of steps, unless it is easier for the individual.

There have been times when I have skipped the actual exit, been 'in' one moment and 'elsewhere' the next without exiting per se. But I have never skipped *all* the steps - and going stepwise is comforting to me.

Patty

There are also the ideas that growth happens at it's own rate, and that 'spirituality' might have more to do with living fully to the best of your ability (i.e. in the physical world of people and relationships.)  Sometimes I think buddhist monks have it easy because they don't have spouses and children with constant needs.

If projection is enhancing the practical areas of one's life, (like allowing one to be more patient with others or have a more global view) then it seems that it is leading one towards a more 'enlightened' state.  In my experience, a little bit of time spent in this endeavor helps me feel balanced, and like I can be more giving towards others (because I feel 'self' satisfied) but if I begin to devote too much time to the practice, I become cross and irritable when someone wants my time.

(I also would like very much to be done with reincarnation. Do you think that one needs to get past this desire before one can be done?)

Patty

The series was called "The New Detectives: Case studies in Forensic science." It was on the discovery channel. I believe the specific show was "Deadly dealings" which will air again on Saturday night.

Check the schedule:

http://dsc.discovery.com/schedule/series.jsp?series=293

The whole series looks interesting, but I believe that is the episode that I overheard.

Patty

quote:....taking off to nirvanaland. wouldn't that make a great theme park?

hee hee hee I like that ---- though if I understand it correctly, there would only be one ride.....

I sure hope you guys figure this out. I wonder about energy storage/depletion and so on.  I  haven't worried about going to the higher realms as I feel like the astral is higher than where I usually am, so I feel like I am making progress to higher places.  But I am often depleted for a while after a projection.

Maybe you just have to keep honestly asking yourself "Am I growing" rather than asking a belief system what the right path is?

This may apply to the discussion ----

Saturday night, for the first time, as I was focusing on projecting - It didn't feel like a strain. It didn't feel like I was fighting for it. It felt more like a lightbulb went off - and I recognized that I had developed sufficient strength of some sort in order to do this. I could rest on the strength and get to the right point to project.

It was sort of like when you are lifting weights and it starts as a challenge and one day you realize you can lift the weight in a completely controlled flexion and extension, and you feel the strength of it.  So right now I think you are only helping your storage centers and pathways by the practice. (It could be that my interpretation is stage - dependant. Follow your instinct.)

Patty

(((Tisha)))

That's beautiful.  You know, I feel like we're at the same football game - and I'm on the field and you're a cheerleader. Or you're in section G and I'm in the band. Or I'm in the locker room and you're in the reporter's box.

Great game, eh?  I am in no rush to get over the proof thing. I know that it is a very valuable stage of my personal development. And where you are looks great too. Maybe I'll come over there and hang out somewhere down the road.


XOXOX

Patty

I will ask him for the program title.

Meantime - today's news you might waant to check out:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=3&cid=578&u=/nm/20020717/ts_nm/crime_samantha_dc_6

Patty

I am still hoping for a well thought out response. These kinds of discussion can really lead to productive thinking on both sides. More skepticism for the overly credulous, and more consideration for the overly skeptical.

But it requires patience, time, and open discussion.

Patty