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Messages - Psan

#176
Quote from: IceCold_K82 on October 29, 2008, 21:09:05
I understand that it may take me years to get my first OOBE,

It may takes years or it may take few hours .... there are no such rules.
Your first steps should be to try to mediate and reach the body asleep and mind awake stage.
Read these forums and all the books etc.
#177
I see no reason why it should be impossible. Physical is only a subset of Higher world, so I guess its obvious.

I've experienced something similar to physical once, although I was not so lucid that time.
#178
Tayesin , thank you very much for such a nice info.

And Gabriel, yes these sensations are normal and all that you mentioned happens to me exactly as you said.
One peculiar feeling is, as if you have suddenly fallen from a chair you have been sitting on, the feeling is so real that you get startled. This is one of the signs that your astral body is loosening up.

Initially, the body position will be an issue, because we are not accustomed to stay still for long in everyday life. So, initial training will be only to practice on keeping yourself still for long times, without getting too uncomfortable or feeling any pain etc. Your body will soon adjust and you will be able to relax to a stage where you completely forget it.
#179
Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: I need help!
October 13, 2008, 04:35:09
Twitching is normal when one is in between asleep and awake stages. It usually goes away as soon as the muscles are deeply relaxed.
You can 'call' the vibes back once you are past this stage.

(This is only a suggestion not a solution)
#180
Who are 'they' ?
Can you please guide me to scientific literature/reports on it ?
There were few 'attempts' to do card tests, all were inconclusive, because getting it right for a few rare occasions is one thing and getting repeatable , firm evidence, day after day and year after year, is another.

I'm not saying that it cannot be done, only that no one tried seriously. Masters normally tell you that they have more important things to do, like awaken humanity etc, rather than guess cards. And novices usually fail.
#181
The technical term for such confusions is "Reality Fluctuations" ;)
Even the masters like R Bruce have problems and they could not complete this simple test, as far as I know.

Most of the time the Astral is not a perfect copy of physical. No one knows why and hows of it all. You have to discover on your own.

You must remember that while projecting, you are in a completely new territory and no know laws may apply. Basically you don't know where you are and your expectations create a dream (which you are habitual to) and dreams are not real.

First thing to do while you are out is to try to get a grip of situation then do some tests etc.
All the best ...
#182
Quote from: iNNERvOYAGER on October 09, 2008, 19:58:55

What are we seeing? The phantom image created by the brain because it knows the location of the arm and hand, or do we actually see the ethereal body?


Its hard to say what one sees in this test, but its pretty common that people can see like this, they can't see others hands etc like this, only their own , I'm sure.

And, I guess its not possible to 'see' the higher bodies, while in physical, so it won't matter if your eyes are covered or not, eyes play no part, if you are trying to see the non-physical bodies.

You need to be at least partially out, or very gifted, or very well trained (A Master), to perceive the non-physical.
#183
Sounds like a partial projection. Your desire makes you project.
You may catch yourself with arms or legs floating out occasionally when you are on the sleep/awake border, its normal, but not full projection.
More training .... All the best ... :)
#184
Quote from: Thoth666 on October 06, 2008, 23:11:37
........ I can get to a state of feeling like I'm not attached to my body, and I'm weightless.  From here, I feel like I'm floating and spinning around the room, but I can't get past this point.  ..........

Well sounds like you are already out then :)
What do you mean by can't get past this ? To where exactly ?

If you feel at this point, that you are out, then you can start doing reality checks etc or try to get visuals or do stuff that people normally do when out, like going somewhere...etc.

If you feel that you are still in, and the floating sensations are only feelings, not real, then you can do whatever our friends wrote above. Else, just relax and watch the experience passively, struggle mostly brings you back.

All the best...
#185
Quote from: SquanderPants on September 23, 2008, 03:57:11
If I had realised I was about to fall asleep, what should I do to stop this fom happening? If i had managed to just stop my mind from falling asleep, would this be the point where I could then project?

Another good question !
Ya, you got it right. If you manage to keep your mind awake (and body asleep), you are almost there.
Now how to do this ? Well, there are so many techniques and if you read these forums, you would find something.

My preferred ones are to stop internal dialogue and concentrate gently on the ringing sound inside my head. The routine internal dialogue makes you unconscious and you fall asleep. So avoid it. This tech works best when you are not very sleepy or tired or have just finished sleep (best).
Second one works best when you are sleepy and dip in and out of sleep, in which, you set up a timer which goes every few minutes or lie in a position which is slightly less comfortable and prevents sleep.

Of course, these are shortcuts where you get a free ride on the natural process of sleep. The proper way is to learn to meditate and be in trance and go deeper from there. Refer the popular books mentioned here or on other websites.
#186
Good question.
The perceived "reality" of OBE varies from a dull drunk nonsense to more real than reality itself. Just like Venus had said, it depends on your lucidity (or energy, as some call it). The best OBEs are those where you can't make out whether you are awake or sleeping or in some other state, and everything seems as if very real, but you are equally sure that you are laying on bed somewhere in physical world, and you are fully conscious and alert.

Things never remain the same, usually and it turns into a normal dream or you wake up as if instantly "teleported" back to the bed. It is this kind of OBE thats most fascinating and makes you wonder. Either the brain is a very complex organ, beyond our understanding or the spiritual stuff people talk about is actually true.

Best of luck for your journeys and may you find the truth soon.
#187
You are experiencing hypnagogic imagery. Unless you wish to have a lucid dream, you should stay passive and let it pass.
#188
Quote from: level7dreamer on September 16, 2008, 02:04:03
but i get close and i pass out every time. I tried everything.

If you mean that you fall asleep while trying, then you can try some things :

1 - Don't try when you are too exhausted.
2 - Don't try before going to sleep, instead try after getting up (get up early method)
3 - Change your body position to some less comfortable position , like sitting instead of in bed.
4 - Use a timer.
#189
Quoted from ,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7621608.stm
today .....

Quote
Doctors at 25 UK and US hospitals will study 1,500 survivors to see if people with no heartbeat or brain activity can have "out of body" experiences.

#190
Ya, its possible and may happen often.
You can fade in and out many times until you decide to get up. So if you find yourself in vibes, don't get up, as there is a good chance that you will exit again. The disadvantage of doing this is that you may forget the oobes when you get up finally.
#191
I see no harm in trying those. Its a hack, remember. The permanent and recommended way is to do it without any supportive gadgets on your own and I feel thats much more easier.

Start by conditioning your body to lie comfortably for an hour or so, without getting painful or falling asleep, just very relaxed. Next, try to be in a trance with quiet mind (no thoughts) in that state. Next, you should try to go deeper and hover on the asleep-awake state. Nature take over after that, or use any of exit techs.

Beats etc may take you there quickly, but you will either become dependent on them or your mind will get immune to that trick.
#192
When you venture into astral, you must enter there like a warrior, without having any feelings or intentions, including those of fear or of causing harm to others. Else you may fail.

Voices or feelings of being touched are common during transition into astral, but they are harmless. Never seen anyone getting harmed because of voices etc. So nothing to fear.

Remember they can see you in that condition, but you can't see them. So its better to assume you are alone and carry on. You are on the right track.
#193
Obviously, the pain is in mind, not real.
Best thing to do is, to stop trying very hard and let the parts relax more.
Once they are so relaxed that you lose awareness of them, you can try again.
#195
Its sad but true that in my last 10 years or so of exposure to this subject, I have not seen even a single experiment that I can confidently say that verified the APs.
Even Tart's experiments are not so solid, IMHO. Any scientific experiment must be repeatable and must be performed by more than one person to qualify as an evidence. Else it merely becomes a claim.

Even R Bruce failed. :P And I feel he is the most advanced master (who is in public) in this field at this time.

Other reason is that qualified scientists shy away from such subjects and only 'fringe' scientists venture in it, and obviously know nothing about scientific method.
One more reason is, being mostly subjective, APs dont yield to scientific methods. Its a personal journey for most. It must be proven by oneself, no one else can tell you its real. Its strange but true. :)


#196
Congratulations !!
You had a genuine obe. Keep it up...
#197
Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: OBE Help
September 02, 2008, 05:42:22
Quote from: fallen_nefariously on September 02, 2008, 01:00:47
I want it too badly

That is your problem. Relax and let the natural flow take over.
#198
It usually means you are not relaxed enough.
Relax to a point where you forget breathing.
Difficult initially .... but as he said, a matter of practice.
Concentrating on the ringing sound in ears helps to take off attention away from breathing.
#199
I feel that developments in physical sciences have liberated the 'mystical' ones a lot. It has eliminated a lot of ignorance and unnecessary stuff from the mystical and helped it to become less mysterious.

Now we know what physical is, if not exactly, but we do know matter and this world a lot. We know that there is no heaven 'above', there is just endless void and millions of other worlds in physical. We know that there is no deity that we need to worship, who will zap us if he gets angry. We know that astral is not something magical 'out there', it is within us. We know that all humans have abilities, some less some more, and no one is special.

Scientific method has also cleaned up a lot of things and writers and experts write in a scientific manner about occult things, not in poems and cryptic language, which did more harm than benefit in the past. People do experimentation instead of religiously following whatever was 'told' by the 'gurus'.

Internet and other inventions have boosted the field like anything. Myself was introduced to this subject via net, and I'm grateful to science for this. I feel, we are slowly and surely coming out of the 'dark ages' of spiritual sciences and we will see the same development in this field just like physical sciences, very soon.

:)
#200
nickspry,

I agree with the reality check thing, but moving your arm and pinching nose is too risky because you may end up moving your physical arm, if you are not sure. This will end the trance and you will have to start over.

For me, its always dead silence and a feeling of being lifted a feet or two above the bed, that marks the start of the separation. After that you can do any reality check, like moving your hand through the wall , etc etc....

It takes only one or two projections to get used to it.