Messages

quote:Originally posted by Risu no Kairu

If this whole thing pops you into the Astral (which I'm assuming you're not refering to the whole "Real time Zone"), how do you get to  a "Real Time Zone" projection?

I believe that this technique will automatically pop you into whatever environment that you "see" prior to phasing there.  However, once you're there, you should still be able to focus on a real time place (like "home") or a real time person (like "Nay") and then expect to be taken there.

Just because you may be in the technical "Astral Realm" does not mean you can't shift to the RTZ....just as you can shift from the RTZ to the astral.

I don't have a lot of practice with shifting from one level to another, so I can't really answer those questions.  I usually just explore wherever I end up without trying to change my location.

[WHY]

quote:Originally posted by Aries

1Zen doesnt have to explain why he feels the things he does. Maybe he just has a strong natural calling to this subject?

That may be true.  But don't you think a person should be able to explain why they believe what they believe?  I mean, that way, they can know FOR THEMSELVES that they're not being led astray?

As an example, President Bush says that we have to go to war because Iraq has WMD's.  Now everyone and their mother is DEMANDING proof of these claims.  Why?  Because when someone makes a claim like that, we like to know what information he had in order to issue that statement.

How is what 1Zenryoku says any different?  Why is it so difficult to explain why you believe what you believe?  We're not asking to be convincing.  We're not even asking that it make sense to our feeble minds.  But to not be able to explain why a person feels a certain way is very troubling, especially when the feelings deal with such an important thing as your own spiritual growth.

Another example: a lot of people say, "When I die, I'm going to heaven."  When you ask why they believe that, they can show you certain scriptures in the Bible to back up their BELIEF.  It doesn't mean they're right or you're right....it just shows their reasoning behind their belief.  This is what my original post was all about.

quote:
Why do you believe the things you believe? Because you do. Its that simple, people dont always need a reason or proof to believe in something. They have there own reasons, which are good enough for them, and thats all the really matters.

You're missing the point, amigo.  I believe what I believe because of certain experiences that have happened to me to shape my beliefs.  

As an example, I believe that we survive after death because I have had many OBE's.  Not only that, but I could describe my OBE's in vivid detail.  

Does this mean that what I say is right, or true?  No, but I can certainly explain WHY *I* think they are.

But to say, "This is what I believe" and then not be able to explain to others your own belief system, that's just silly!  What is there to fear?  Either you fear being ridiculed, or you simply CAN'T explain what you believe.  And if you can't explain what you believe, then why believe in it in the first place?

See my point?

quote:
Mayatnik has provided his info, that is true. But maybe its just because he knows how to better word what he is feeling.

This could be true.

quote:
Who are you to try and change ones feelings and beliefes?

Perhaps you can show me exactly WHERE I tried to "change ones feelings and beliefes [sic]."

Asking WHY a person believes in something as strongly as 1Zenryko is not changing anything about his beliefs, is it?  If I asked you why you hate eating a certain vegetable, would you respond, "I just do, now quit trying to change me?"

quote:
It is possible for any of the things people have posted here to happen in 2012, but untill that time comes around people are left to there own beliefes.

Yes....but again, a person should be ABLE to explain their beliefs.  You're not on trial, dude.  If your beliefs are that important to you, then it really doesn't matter to you what others think...like Mayatnik did with his explanation.  I could care less, but he was able to explain why he believes what he believes.

quote:
People talk about the Government being evil and trying to control the masses, well those of you putting others down for there beliefes, or trying to change anothers beliefes are no better then the Government.

::sigh::  This poor beaten horse.  

If asking a person to explain his spiritual beliefs (something which should come EASY to almost anyone), if that's considered putting you down, then you have some serious perception issues.

quote:
I say let people believe what they want, if its not the same as yours then so be it, if everyone was the same then there wouldnt be anything to talk about.

THAT'S MY POINT!  We're TRYING to talk about these things....I am asking simple questions to discuss WHY a person believes what they believe!  This is a discussion board!

quote:
I say that we focus more on helping eatchother and the rest of the world, and focus less on trying to make others understand or believe what we believe in.

::Ring ring::  Here, it's for you.  It's Earth calling Aries.

How can we help each other if we can understand each other?  I'm trying to understand where this guy is coming from.  In order to understand him, I would like to know why he thinks the way he does.  In order to think a certain way, you must have formulated your opinions based on certain things.  This is what I am trying to get down to.

quote:
If there was a Demon war tommorow, or a Pole shift tommorow, or some sort of catastrophe, then how well do you really think the human race would fair?

That remains to be seen.

quote:
Most of us dont even know our selves, so how can you argue with others about there beliefes.

Is anyone else dizzy from running around in so many circles?

I'm not arguing with anyone's beliefs.

quote:
Once again I say: We need to focus less on individual beliefes, but more on coming togather as a people, and knowing our selves.
-Aries

My head hurts now.

Hey RobertK4You,

quote:Originally posted by robertk4you

i think it helps,thanx guys.
ps:i just want to say,that astral forum itself,is the coolest website,i have been so far.so many different forums,areas of interest,and people actually answers your questions.i like that.[8D]
100 points to astal pulse[]

Don't take this the wrong way, but just out of curiousity, why do you insert commas all over the place in your sentences?  Is it just that you think that you're placing them where they're supposed to go?

I mean, I read that sentence above, and traditionally, with a comma, you're supposed to pause before reading the rest of the sentence.  So I end up reading your sentence like this:

i just want to say (pause) that astral forum itself (pause) is the coolest website (pause) i have been so far.

Please enlighten me.

quote:Originally posted by Aries

Are you sure?? Cause I think I have read some of his posts here on this site...

Um, yeah....we're sure.  Put it this way.  If you're reading some of Robert Monroe's posts on this site, then I want to use the same ISP he's using!

quote:Originally posted by Mustardseed
I had a hard time gatting into the RTZ, when the vibrations first were present. I have decided to spend more time there, but it seems to me I went straight from waking state to a astral level? Any Ideas?

Sounds like it, although you could have been in the RTZ somewhere, skimming over the RTZ ocean.  Who's to say?

Good post.

I experience these types of "Reality fluctuations" too.  I wouldn't be too concerned though.  It's just that when you're trancing out, your consciousness is in an altered state.

So your brain is simply not concentrating as much on translating your vision in a normal way, and just kind of throws its hands up and says, "I take a break!"

So you will see things like the walls start to ripple, objects expand/shrink in size, everything go dark, etc.

quote:Originally posted by 1Zenryoku

I would like to state that I also believe in an ascention of sorts. I believe that in 2012 the weak will die and the ones who live will gain an extrodinary power to fight these creatures/demons. So all the peoplwe that say we are to weak to fight  that is how I explain how I will fight this power will be granted to those strong enough to survive the merger.

While I don't necessarilly believe anything in this entire thread, therein lies the difference between Mayantik and yourself.  Whether a person believes in what he says or not, at least he provided WHY he believes what he believes.  He has provided reasons for his statements, and shows WHY he has formed his conclusions.

You have not.  Despite all Mayatnik's well written post (even though I am not a believer in his cause), you still come right back with the same old dribble: "I believe that in 2012 the weak will die and the ones who live will gain an extrodinary power to fight these creatures/demons."

HOW?!  Back this up with something.  Mayatnik has backed up WHY he thinks that 2012 will not be a time of war but of transistion.  You have not shown why you beleive that 2012 WILL be a time for a war, spiritually speaking or physically speaking.

Again, I am not supporting one person or another.  I'm personally not caught up in this 2012 thing.  However, I do recognize when people present a good argument to support their claims, and you have failed to do so.

Looking forward to your response to my questions.

quote:Originally posted by Aries
The chances of your plane actually crashing is very little, your actually more likely to die on the way to the airport then you are actually when your in the plane it self.
Hope this helps some...
-Aries

Yeah, people tell me this all the time, to try and make me feel better.  However, the one thing about phobias is that they don't really make sense.

I also try and tell myself, "Jeff, if God thinks your time is up, then he can take you right now if He wants.  When it's your time, then it's your time, and there is nothing you can do about it."

However, even THAT doesn't reassure me.  Why?  Because it's a phobia.  The more I get on planes, the more I hate them, and the more scared I get with each passing plane trip.

quote:Originally posted by The AlphaOmega
One thing I did want to ask your view on.  Recently I have stopped trying to feel the vibrations as a signal to try and leave my body.  After about 30 minutes to an hour I am very relaxed and in a good frame of mind, with no sign of the vibrations (I have never felt them).

I rarely feel them too....and when I do, it's not like an immediate BAM!  HERE THEY ARE!  It's more like, "Oh hey, I seem to be vibrating here."  

I have often felt them as a buzzing, numb feeling.  Never violent or disturbing.

quote:
 It's at this stage that I visualize myself floating out of my body, and suddenly my heart beats faster and I get an excited feeling, as if I'm very close.

I know what you're talking about....and here is how I look at it.  When you try and relax, and you're going 30 - 60 minutes with just laying there, clearing your mind, etc., you're still very much awake.  True, you can't really feel your body, but you still SENSE it, and this is the problem.

So what we end up doing is that even though we feel that our body is asleep, we try and do some physically-minded exit techniques, like the ROPE, or floating our of our BODY (see, another body reference).  However, since we still sense our physical body, the physical body starts reacting to our visualization.  The heart will start to beat faster...we may feel an adrenaline surge through our veins....we may twitch.  I'm sure most of us have experienced this before.

The key is to get to the point where you don't even sense the physical body.  Don't worry about whether you FEEL it or not.  Worry about whether or not you can SENSE it.

This is why I stress so much on the MENTAL aspect of OBE-preparation. If you get immersed in your thoughts and base all your progress on mental benchmarks (instead of physical ones), then you will find it easier to lose all awareness of the physical body.

quote:
 Do you yourself have a similar experience, or do you use the imfamous vibrations that everyone else talks about?  I'm beginning to think they are not necissary to have an OBE, simply a common experience that many do feel WHEN they have an OBE.

Feeling the vibrations are NOT necessary to have an OBE, you are correct.  IMO, focusing on the vibes is a good way to keep your focus on the physical body, which is what you DON'T want to do.

quote:Originally posted by cube
Basically I agree with math's post in that I don't understand how you can say that the eyes are asleep but the body is not.

I use the term "asleep" as a way of saying that the eyes are not being used.  You see, even when you close your eyes, you are STILL using them.  Just because they are not seeing anything doen not mean that they are not LOOKING at anything.

THey are, in fact, looking at something: the back of your eyelids.  Well, I have noticed that this LOOKING process needs to stop.  As long as you are looking with physical eyes, you will not get to the pre-OBE state as I mentioned above.  There is a slight transition, very subtle, where you relinquish your physical looking ability and swap it for the astral looking ability.

That is what I was trying to convey when I said the eyes need to be "asleep."

quote:Originally posted by math

Thanks for that post Jeff []

The part about "your eyes must be asleep" really does make sense to me. However I'm not so clear on the body not asleep part.

Is what you are suggesting an alternative way of getting into the trance state? i.e. let yourself fall asleep but in a way that allows you to keep a strong intent/thread of consciousness going that allows you to "jump out" when you get deep enough.

Yes, it is a trance state that you get into, but you get into it naturally.  You don't have to TRY and get there.

You see, most techniques give you a billion and one physical things to do in order to get into a trace, like relaxing all your muscles from head to toe, and then back again, etc.

This is all well and good, but for me, I find that relaxing the mind and conditioning my mental processes is all that I need to do in order to achieve a good trance state.  Think about it.  The more you are focused internally (mentally), the less you're going to think about your body anyway.  You could have four arms sproating from your torso and you could care less, because you aren't focused on it.

So I'm merely suggesting that the next time you lay down, immedietely start working on the above three tips and work on your MIND and not your body.  Your body will naturally shut down without you helping it, but your mind needs to be hand-held and monitored in order to have a successful conscious OBE exit.

Hey there....

I just wanted to let you know that I moved your topic from the "OBE Discussions" forum to the "Astral Chat" forum, because I think it goes better here.  Let me know if you disagree.

Anyway, I can totally relate to what you're saying.  Over the last few years, I have developed a severe (and I do mean severe) phobia when it comes to flying.

Basically, to put things bluntly, I freak out on planes.  Not only that, but every plane trip I take is WORSE than the last, meaning that the last time I have been on a plane has always been the worst experience in flying.

The last time I was on a plane was 4+ months ago when I flew back from Hawaii, and I literally freaked out....started hyperventilating, made other passengers turn and look at me, etc.  It was humiliating.

I don't know WHY this is....I think something must have happened to me in a plane in another life at a certain age....because when I was younger, I never had a problem with planes.  The older I get, though, the more my a** likes to stay on the ground, know what I'm saying?

To this day, my wife and I have minor arguments over the fact that she wants to vacation in places across the country, and I tell her to have fun without me.

quote:Originally posted by cube

On the 'mind aware/body asleep thing', while I agree with the spirit of what you're saying it IS possible for the body to sleep, that's what happens when you get sleep paralysis.

I see what you're saying, but I may even contend that it's your MIND which convinces you that your body is asleep.  It's called disassociation.  If your mind was not disassociated from the body, then you would be able to move just fine.

The whole "paralysis" thing is nothing more than your mind in a disassociated state NOT KNOWING that it is disassociated, and then trying to move a body which it's not in control over!

Think about that for a minute.

This is why people can disassociate their mind and then have needles and other painful things pierce the body, with no signs of discomfort.  This is also why a lot of people can be hypnotised.  Their mind is disassociated from their actions by the power of suggestion.

quote:It seems like the common thread in all AP techniques is that they have the effect of making you forget about your physical bosy and begin focuing on your astral body.

Most techniques have you focus on your physical body first, and then your mind.  I'm suggesting you focus on your mind, and your physical body will follow naturally.

quote:Originally posted by kiauma
One question, when you took the bite out of the tree, how do you think that effected the tree?  Do you think you actually took a bite out of the tree's astral manifestation, or what?

I thought about this AFTER I came back....not while I was doing it.  I have no idea if it had any effect on the tree in that realm.  I didn't feel a sense of pain coming from the tree when I did it, nor did I feel like I was "harming" or destroying it at the time.

I also read the projection experience you had, and I thank you for sharing it.

I could tell from reading it that it left you somewhat confused.  First of all, from my experience, there isn't a whole heck of a lot of difference between a lucid dream and an OBE.  In fact, many people wonder how they can tell the difference.  Here is how I break it down:

For me, a traditional lucid dream is one where I don't have a lot of mental control.  I may have lucidity to tell me that I'm not in my physical body, but mentally, I'm on autopilot.  It's like I'm watching myself do certain things without questioning WHY.  

This is unlike an OBE or AP, where I have full control of my mental faculties.  I use logic, reasoning, and possess all of my normal thought processes to make decisions.

With that in perspective, it's easy to relinquish tiny amounts of control in a traditional OBE and have this 'auto-pilot' take over....which is why things start to go from weird to strange almost instantaneously.  And then, just as quickly as this weird environment is created, you can gain full control again, and interact with this environment.

Imagine many years ago when you were learning how to drive.  I don't know how you were instructed, but during my driving school, I had to ride with an instructor who had his own steering wheel and pedals on the PASSENGER side of the car.  I would be using the drivers side controls, but in case of an emergency, the instructor could take over at anytime from the passenger side of the car.

Having an OBE is kinda like that.  You may start off with the instructor driving you somewhere (aka You're in some lucid dream environment).......then he gives you control of the steering wheel (aka You become fully consciously aware and now possess total control).

AND...during the experience, the instructor can take control, make a few turns, and then give control back to you....which is why sometimes, you walk through a door only to find another completely different scene....or a Christmas tree in your room!  Because the instructor made these turns, and then you took back over.

That is how I see things.

quote:Originally posted by Nay

Great experience Jeff!!

So, lets see...you take a bite out of some drywall, and now a tree!  Poor astral objects...they are gonna start cringing when you come floating by with your hungry, hungry hippo act! Hehehehe []

Yeah I know!  I don't know what is up with me and biting astral objects....except that in both instances, I specifically remember telling myself to do something that "no one else has ever tried before."

That's not to say that I'm the first to do this, by any means.  However, I have never READ or HEARD about someone doing it, and this was enough for me!

quote:
P.S. you should have come seen me this morning, I would have been up for a astral jaunt..[]

I seriously considered it....but for some reason, while astrally walking along the sidewalk, I didn't feel the desire to do so like I do when I'm in the physical.

In the past, it's been easier for me to pick a remote target and try to travel there WHEN I'M IN THE BLACK VOID.  I think that's because I have nothing to look at and explore when in this state, so I automatically shoot for someone (like you) to visit.

However, if I am already in an astral environment that I can see and interact with, my mind becomes so preoccupied with that scenario that I seldom have the urge to fly away from it.

quote:Originally posted by crazy_colombiang

Use astral traveling for the good. You know, like better health, and things like that, Not to win the lottery and make you rich.(i would like that tho)[

You know, people say this all the time, but I'll tell you one thing.  If I was able to see winning lottery numbers while having an OBE, you can bet your astral a** that I would be writing them down!

The problem, however, is that when you're projecting, you are NOT in the physical world.  Otherwise, physical people with physical eyes could see you.  

You aren't even SEEING anything.  You are PERCEIVING.  Everything around you (even now in the physical) is nothing more than vibrating frequencies of energy.  When you are having an OBE, you are vibrating at a higher, lighter frequency than the dense physical world, which is why you can pass through solid objects.

You also perceive energy on this plane, but it can be easily misinterpreted by your mind.  As an example, you may astrally project to a friends house and see a big stack of paper on his table....only to find out when you return that there was no stack of paper there.  However, there was a box of Kleenex Tissue, which your mind interpreted at the time to be a stack of paper.

Little things like that affect your experience.  Add that together with the fact that you can create thought forms, and couple that with the fact that you could be in any number of alternate realities, and you see the difficulty of trying to simply "see" the winning lottery numbers.

quote:Originally posted by Kerrblur
So your trying to say, when you project, you can project elsewhere other than your position in the RTZ?

Yes!  I just did this a week or so ago, when I projected over the coast of the United Kingdom, and it was daylight there, even though in the RTZ where my physical body was (in California), it was still dark-thirty in the morning.

quote:
lol wait a second, I must have missed something completely in these last 8 months now.  Can you explain to me how you get to go elsewhere when project, when, during trance? during the technique? You understand?  

I simply demanded to go visit "So and so in the UK" and trie dot focus in on that person's energy signature.  I then began to fly upwards at an incredible speed, found myself in space, and then swooped back down to the Earth directly over the UK coastline.

I'm not saying this is the best way to travel to the other side of the world, but this is how it happened for me.

That's an awfully *adult* looking email address you got there.  You sure you didn't have something else on the brain when you typed it?  Look carefully! []

quote:Originally posted by Kerrblur

Hello,

    I've been having this problem for along time, since I started trying to project and all this.  I cant seem to project during the day, it seems absolutely impossible!  The light distracts me, I think the thought of it being day time period just distracts me, but I really would like to try to have a OBE during the day because I hear theres alot less fear involved in it.  

The light really has nothing to do with it.  It's all about being comfortable and not distracted.  Obviously, light is a distraction for you, so you have one of two options if you want to OBE during the day:

1) Find a dark place
2) Cover your eyes when you lay down (with a bandana, hankerchief, etc).

quote:
 Is there anyone here who currently performs daytime OBE's?  Is there any special way you have to do this? is there a way someone that can reply here that does there own little 'thing' to project?

Most of my OBE's are at night, simply because that is when I usually lay down.  However, I have had OBE's during a nap time, and they are equally cool.

quote:
 Plus what is it like in the astral while in day light?  no entities? no scarey noises? lol complete fun!?  well thanks for listening hope to hear from one of you soon.

It can be exactly the same as a night time OBE.  And it really doesnt matter when you project.  For example, it could be night time but you project to the other side of the Earth where it is daylight...or you go to some astral realm that is lighter than your RTZ.

You can technically pull anyone out as long as they are ready and accepting.  It's extremely hard to do though, at least from my experience.  The few times I have tried to pull someone out while they were sleeping, they were very groggy, incoherant, and had no memory in the morning.

As far as you pulling someone out would make things harder for them in the future, I think that's a load of crap.  Consciously OBEing is hard in general.  It takes lots of dedication and practice.

Most people think that since OBEing is so hard to consciously induce, that simply being "pulled out" is the next available shortcut.  However, I'm afraid that without some effort and lots of practice on your own, you have just as much chance of getting pulled out as you do of consciously projecting on your own.

Bottom line: you can continue to have your BF try and pull you out....but don't worry about the whole "making it harder for me later" thing.  I have seen no evidence of that.

Frank and I used to post all the time back in the day, before I left the forum due to time constraints.  Months went by, and out of the blue, Frank wrote me a personal email, asking if I was OK and that he couldn't wait for me to return.

Well, I have done the same to Frank two or three times, writing him emails and asking for just a one line response, letting us know that he is OK.  I never get anything back.  =(

It's funny how someone so respected and admired as Frank can simply disappear without a trace....without any of us having any address, number, or contact information.

[Are Obes more difficult if you had just been in deep sleep a few moments before the actual experience?]

Hey Sunnie,

quote:Originally posted by ASunnieSpirit
Are Obes more difficult if you had just been in deep sleep a few moments before the actual experience?

I wouldn't say they are more difficult.....but they CAN be.  You see, usually when you go into an OBE from a dream, you slowly realize what's going on around you.  The realization sinks in that, YES, you are having an OBE!

However, because it was so seamlessly interwoven within a dream, it's just as easy to slip right back into the dream.

On the other hand, those of us who usually OBE from the bed and exit the body by rolling out, we tend to have a little more control in the beginining, with little doubts about the experience.

I do believe that there is an advantage to projecting from within a dream (which all that means is that you become AWARE that you're already out of your body while you are asleep)......You see, the advantage to becoming aware within a dream is that you are no longer thinking of your physical body.  You don't have to experience the vibrations, the heaviness, or any other inconvenience.  You're already out!

So the hard part is just maintaining your awareness and not slipping back into a dream state.  I find that STARING at something brings you more control and solidifies the experience.

quote:
Also, is sleep paralysis more common in the morning method?

From MY experience, sleep paralysis can happen anytime, but usually happens after a few hours of sleep.  It just so happens that most people experience this in the morning, when their mind snaps awake and their body is still sleeping.  

You see naturally, our consciousness and our bodies awake at the same time.  However, in a lucid dream, or even a nightmare, our conscious mind is awakened BEFORE our bodies (either because we get excited or scared).  This snaps our minds to an awakened stare FIRST, before our bodies have a chance to catch up.  So we experience a paralysis episode.

quote:
Could this of been a lucid dream and not an OBE (I have never been lucid for more then a few seconds so I wouldn't know what one felt like)?

Sounded like an OBE to me.

quote:
I could see when i was lying down, but as soon as i started to get out it became very dark, but only in my room. I think i might be intentionally turning off my sight because i am afriad of seeing negative things while im exiting. Is this possible?

Anything is possible.  To this day, I usually have trouble seeing right when I get out of my body.  It takes practice but eventually you get the hang of it.

I think you bring up some good points, Janette.  I believe there is some validity to your theory that all these "beings" exist "somewhere" and that we don't "create" them....we're simply inspired to manifest them in our art, literature, media, etc.

Frankly, it freaks me out to think that somewhere, it some dimension, there is a "Jabba The Hut" entity crawling around.  []

By the way, welcome to the forum!  Hope you stick around for awhile.

Hey Ryan.....

You say that you do this in a sitting position, which is what "glowsoftly" does as well.  Maybe you can answer the following:

1) Have you had ANY success with this technique in a lying down position?

2) On average, how long does it take you to "get out" from the moment you sit down in your chair?

3) Is there any doubt in your mind that you travel to these places, or do you have a little bit of hesitation because you think that this could be just your imagination?

4) Do you find that you have to go through full-body relaxation exercises, energy work, etc. before projecting with this technique, or do you just sit down and BOOM!  You're out within 10 minutes of visualization?

5) The chair you sit in....is it a straight back chair, or is it reclined when you project?  If it's a straight back, how can you disassociate and not be thinking about holding yourself upright (mainly your neck, head, and torso).

I have yet to have any success with this technique, but I only try from a prone position on my back.  If only I had a comfortable arm chair to sit it!

quote:Originally posted by wantsumrice

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." -Matthew

Hey Matthew, that's a great quote.  Someone should copyright that, or put it in the Bible or something. []