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It sounds to me like you are making progress and that you are close. The hand feeling like its moving sounds a lot like whatI felt when I tried to project in a schooldesk. It would feel like I'm slipping out of the desk and when I moved , I would instantly be back where I was originally. And if I let my self slip out the desk and hit the floor,  I would actually be in astral at that point and fee to roam around.  Maybe you need some way to put preassure on your astral body so that it can loosen up more of your limbs to get totally into the astral.

It also sounds like when I fell asleep with my foot elevated and gripped on to a wall corner using my shoe. It would feel like my foot was falling to the floor but when I moved it  , it would go back to normal instantly.  After I sat there long enough and let it fall all the way to the floor , I would eventually feel the vibrating and buzzing start in my neck and get stronger and stronger until I could just get up and walk around .  

When you reach that "hand moving" state. Try to create some preassure on it but either thinking about your feet being a few inches from where they are or maybe thinking of your legs being crossed and try to feel that way. Even try thinking of a breeze blowing and your hands and limbs are starting to flap in the wind. That nearly worked for me one time when I found my self in that state.. Ifeel liek that too sometimes and have a lot of trouble getting out. I know what your feeling. Sitting up and falling asleep might help. I know from experience that its hard for me to project even though I Feel my hand separated.

after your paralyzed you can project.. I dont think theres a way to do it before your paralyzed even if you dont know your paralyzed at the time.. Paralization is in my beliefs , the last step before you finally leave your body. When your able to move again physically , it means you simply did something wrong.

Hey thing , welcome to my world .   I use sleep paralysis to leave my body .. everytime i'm able to reach that state , I can project moments later.. In sleep paralysis , as soon as I move , I only get vibrations in my head and neck area.. the more I move, the more I vibrate and the stronger it is until I quit moving. I sorta combine physical movement and a mental image of how I'm trying to move and I somehow break free of this paralysis and enter the astral... thats how I peel out of my physical body.. paralysis and vibrations are very comforting to me unlike other people I guess. keep up whatever you did and youll be floating through walls in no time  You were knocking on the door to your first OBE. Have fun :)O

maybe I came on too strong to the "jokers" I just thought someone had to step on if this guy is serious about finding elvis in the astral. No offense to anyone out there.

*cracks nuckles*
Ok fetishes....  Well.. I know I have a fair share of my own.. I know me and my ex girlfriend got off on writing some kinky letters about suckin each other blood... we were gonna do it one day but well.. her parents found the letters soooo Hightschool.. bah..

Thats kind a good idea .. make a kinky fetish dungeon in the astral.. if it attracts negs .. lol blast them with energy or something .. Im sure theres plenty of astral energy in the astral plane just point a finger and zap the place clean before you get yer freak on in your freshly built fetish dungeon!  *shudders* I'm not into whips and chains just yet .. just blood and daggers/needles/vampires .....

Ronaldo , dont listen to a lot of the jokers that posted. If your serious about finding elvis .. the best thing for you to do is go leave your body however is best for you and when you finally realize you are out .. simply call for him. I've heard its that simple from 2 other astral projecters and they have contacted people who have passed. I have not tried yet but its that simple. Theres no voodoo ritual that will bring a holographic elvis vision to you so going astral and having the intent to appear before him or vice versa would be your best bet in my opinion. Good luck in your search.

I had to bring this one back up cause I recently found out that I can bring back this stinging feeling by simply feeling for my tan-tien ( feeling for the area around my stomache ) and pushing that feeling upwards like Im about to make a psi ball...  It instantly starts to make the stinging feeling all around my head arms , lips sometimes , chest .  Anyone know what this

I had to bring this one back up cause I recently found out that I can bring back this stinging feeling by simply feeling for my tan-tien ( feeling for the area around my stomache ) and pushing that feeling upwards like Im about to make a psi ball...  It instantly starts to make the stinging feeling all around my head arms , lips sometimes , chest .  Anyone know what this could mean ?

the vibrations are different from person to person , my experience with vibes usually feel like .. someone has a huge shoulder vibrator device , puts it on the back of my neck  ,somehow touches the neckbone with it then turns it on. Its not painful but very noticable... not disorienting either I like the vibrations and paralysis .  The vibrations should increase at the moment of separation and if you try to move while they are strong you shoudl feel paralysis .. ( you shoudlnt be able to move once they are strong ) Thats how I feel them. Good luck

TOOL!

Whoops... I mean .. I'll give my 2 cents on this one lateralus.. I've experienced the 3d blackness feeling and I have to say that you are definately reaching a good state of trance it sounds like.. whatever you are doing , keep it up.. when I reached that point in my early stages .. the thing that got me past it and finally out of my body was just to mentally say "ok this is ok" and thats it .. not "WHOA YES SWEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!" or "wow this is wierd it feels like...blah blah blah" those are probably not good things to say ..

By me just saying ok .. and not thinking about it much , it allowed my mind to remain calm.. just act bored .. act like you've done it a million times and you dont give a crap that you feel the new feeling .. whether it be 3d blackness or the feeling of rising , misplacement , tingling , anything .. the best thing to say is "ok good" or just "ok whatever" .. nothign to get you excited .. I know it sounds dull but until you realize how to keep that level of trance just acknowledge it and ignore it.. remain calm and allow the next stages to come naturally.. commentating too much on it could

A) make you fall asleep possibly with hypnagogic imagery
B)get you too excited that your pulse quickens and you come out of trance
C)Simply commenting on it too much will make you think about your body and it will bring you out of it

Try not to think about how it feels , just acknowledge that it feels like your in 3D blackness or whatever and just allow it to pass .. This is what I did and soon after , I was getting astral sight and I was fully paralyzed and .. it was very wierd.. I'll admit , it did scare me , it felt like my toes were bending backwards and the first thing I saw was a huge black orb floating above me but that was the only scary experience out of any that I've had .. and I've had a good 15 or so OBEs since. All have been peacefull after that first one.


Good luck , it would help to explain just how you are reaching that 3D blackness stage so we can tell you if its the real thing and also elaborate on the feelings you go through when you reach it and how it ends.

Well whatever this paralysis is .. its not pleasant and yes I'm completely paralysed .. I cant move and if I try , it just vibrates my body even more .. its very strange , not painful but uncomfortable yea. Whatever I reach .. whether it be a state of trance or whatever , its given me a successful projection 90 percent of the time .. rarely do I have trouble exiting .. sometimes i do feel stuck to my body in some places and even trapped in but This state is interesting nonetheless and I encourage people to try to reach this state if at all possible to have an OBE even if it goes against your opinion. I'm not saying your wrong, we just have our own views , thanks for yer input .

Well , I've read all this and I'll give my 2 cents..

Timmerdog , I personally dont think that working towards getting to a paralyzed state is somethign you should avoid. I use the paralyzed state for 90+ percent of my successful projections. I cant seem to do it any other way.. After I notice the paralysis , I use some mental movie of me moving a specific way and combining that with physically trying to move, will yeild an OBE for me.

Anyway , to answer that question .. try sitting upright and listening to something, get totally comfortable (if its painful in some way it may still work --since my position makes my teeth hurt from my hand being on my braces).. when your comfortable and can make your body go totally limp without falling over .. simply remain still and keep getting more and more relaxed with each exhale .. listen to either music or some boring lecture that you have to listen to anyway. This keeps you from going to sleep ( i listen to my teacher in class ). You may notice that after a while , your next will start to vibrate , it will probably catch you off guard and youll notice some wierd states of relaxation before the vibrations and paralysis kick in..

What I do is , I'll get in my desk , sit on one foot comfortably , tilt my head down to my chest , put my right elbow on my lap and use that arm's hand to hold my head up ( my palm ends up on my mouth ) , its painful at the start cause I have braces but the pain turns into numbness I guess from no circulation getting there eventually ... heh.. but by that time , I'll get vibrations.. Listening to my teacher in that position , while I let myself go totally limp , gets me in the astral almost every morning.. I've took it upon myself to fail that class and use it for spiritual advancment .. and if I ever want to travel to the past .. Ill just listen to the teacher in astral since its American History

I hope this helps .. all you really need to induce paralysis is a perfectly still , relaxed , limp  body and either something to focus on while relaxing or quieting your mind. Youll eventually be in that state. Just try not to fall asleep =P ( thats why I sit upright )


For everyone else , paralysis is a great way to indue an OBE , I dunno why anyone would give advice to skip that step. While I'm laying down after noticing my body starting to go numb , I'll send waves of awareness through my body to try to create a rocking sensation until I start to rock around in my bed .. thats when I'm laying down. I dont usually feel paralysis that way but it sorta made me fling out onto my floor in astral one night. Good luck everyone!

Wow ICWiz we seem to be at the same level. You've described to me exa.....EXACTLY what I've been goin through for the past few months. I try to lie down and project but I'll get that breathing problem also when I try for TOTAL relaxation. My tounge kinda falls in the back of my throat and stuff. I've been able to project a few times lieing down but most of my "willed" projections have been sitting in a desk in class. See..I dont have a breathing problem sitting in the desk cause I sit so that my elbow is propped up on my stomache and palm is flat on my lips and my head tilted down..this hurts my teeth after a while and sorta makes the blood in my lips stop circulating I think but the pain is something that keeps me a bit aware and usually I'm listening to my teacher .. the whole time (as long as I'm balanced and somewhat leaning on the side of my desk) I am able to let my body fall asleep like that while listening to the teacher and doing my full body relaxation.. basically just letting my whole body go limp , tounge , neck , hand, everything and TADAAA no breathing problem .. vibrations come pretty soon after that and I can exit...I've notices that at some point it will feel like you are about to fall over or something cause your getting so relaxed. You have to just ignore it.. I've even fell out of my desk in astral lol , that was wierd causeI thought I really fell out in class..

I would like to talk to you about this stuff ICWiz , I think we could find something to bypass this .. block in our progress. Please contact me if you want to talk about this stuff.

Heres my contact info:

Email=  Zarklon@earthlink.net
ICQ=13147691
MSN=Nothingreallytrue@hotmail.com
AOL=ScrotomicBomb

I'll be online hopefully tomorrow , (the 14th) I'm not at my house tonight.

PS:I noticed that I cannot simply , will myself to float out of my body when the vibrations come .. its more of a ... just get up and move kidna thing .. the whole time your trying to move , you have to focus on moving your astral body , or visualize yourself moving behidn closed eyelids to get the full exit.. I've stood by my teacher in astral to listen to some of the lesson for the day. Its pretty interesting .. it was American history and all I remember not was..he was talking about the 1800s.  Anyway , cya lata and good luck on yer progress.

Thanks for the suggestion but its not really bothersome.. I'm just trying to figure out what it is =P Its wierd that I only get in after I reach a certain degree of relaxation and try to induce a dizzy flipping/rolling motion through visualization. Its pretty wierd heh.

Heh , counting helped me a while back but now I've reached a point where I cannot simply count and let OBE happen..it sorta just happends whenever it wants to now...It happends a lot less often than I want it to happen when I'm at home.. I dont want to miss anymore of my morning classes trying to project even though it means more to me than anything else in life! I guess I"m a geek with it.. I would rather have an OBE than go out and party..hell.. I was even at my cousin's house and he was having a party ..I was in the other room trying to project into the other parts of the house where the party was goin on..   oh well , I'll figure out some way to do it more often when I'm at home. Counting usually doesnt help me anymore cause I get too bored with it . .I've noticed that I have to start actually trying to FEEL the breaths and FEEL the relaxation come in waves more than mentalling keeping myself occupied .. if I Do that then I'll simply get to daydreaming and POOF I'm sleeping ;(

*goes to get more sleep in to OBE later tonight* Thanks for the counting tip though , but it just dont work for me anymore ;(

Hey again .. I was pretty careful to not use the term REM to describe it cause i thought that it only occured when you are dreaming or fully asleep.. I can certainly say that it only happends to me once I reach a certain degree of relaxation ( real far down the line ) I guess its a sign for me that I'm not too far away from the astral =P Thanks for giving me that reassurance I needed.  As far the mental commentary..ing...whatever , should that be done or does that create too much mental activity .. ( or is there such a thing as being to mentally away for OBE ) ?  

thanks , I think I know how I end up getting vibrations .. I can get to the point where my body pretty much goes numb and my eyes start to move around a bit behing my closed eyelids .. they seem to want to go up and down a lot as if I were falling facing a building and I'm trying to look at each window as I fall .. they move like that.  This is wierd and I'll make a new post about this to see what others things but after a while , I'll start to just sit there and say to myself "Ok , my body is completely relaxed .. now I'll just wait for vibrations " I'll either get them or I'll sit there forever with nothing. I think it helps for me to be pretty awake.


Thanks for your description of sensations prior to vibrations , it sounds so familiar to me in a way. I can get them every morning in class if I wanted lol but I just find it hard to do it at home!

Guys , if you dont mind telling , what do you experience up until the point where you get vibrations? Do you find it hard to stay awake ? Do you hear voices? Dizzyness? Eyes fluttering ? I dont get vibrations enough to know what I'm doing right to get them! Its frustrating for me lol. I can usually exit my body completely when I get them simply by fighting the resistance and putting a little mental effort into it by visualizing me moving easier while trying to fight the resistance that keeps my astral body so close to my physical one. Thats the only way I know how to explain my complete split =P

Hmm , I had a similar problem last night when I finally got paralysis..my leg felt as if it was one big CRAMP... not really painful but just felt like all the muscles in it where stretched very uncomfortably until I went back in my body and moved it , then it instantly felt better.


Ask yourself , was it really a "pain" in your head or was it just a feeling of extreme uncomfort .. or maybe it felt as if you needed to just move yer neck a bit due to uncomfort? I've had very uncomfortable experiences that I would describe as pain first but then later realize that it never really "hurt" .. just felt wierd.

I dont know what it could be really but how often do you get this pain in your head?

So , practicing a little bit everynight going to bed earlier will be a good idea? I'll do that.

I'll get my sleep from now on also.



About meditation .. what exactly does it do for you.. I mean .. I can sit there an day dream about stuff non stop and put realize that I'm just kinda staring off into space .. most of the time , I dont wanna be caught like that but I snap out of it.. Is meditation the same way? Do you just sit there and let the thoughts come in and let them pass with little interaction or what?

Is it better to be sitting or lieing down? I dont know how meditating like that can help me. Whats the purpose?

another thign I forgot to mention.. If I got more sleep , would I still get to the point where I would just fall asleep a lot like I am now once I reach that relaxation state? Or would I begin to notice exit sensations such as vibrations becuase my mind is not "tired" from lack of sleep? How would I benefit from more sleep?


PS---I posted a similar post on another forum and they thought I was just practicing astral projection for 4 weeks and kept saying that I shouldnt be frustrated so fast hehe..

Just to clear this up , I've been practicing for over 7 months now .. hell maybe more than that , I keep losing track of time. I would argue over whether or not its 2002 2003 or 2004 ! I'm just lost in life hehe.

Hmm.. I think you guys may be right about the sleep deprivation thing. I go to bed usually at 1:00AM on school nights and the other night I went to bed at 3:30.. How did you know it was sleep deprivation?

Was it the statement that I made about "dream images come within 10 second of me laying down?" heh... I was thinking that since my body was so ready to sleep , that I would be able to just keep my mind awake. I'm going to start trying to project from a sitting position but I dunno how I'm gonna do that without feeling awkward.

About that meditation you described "kakkarot" , I dont know how to really meditate.. I mean .. yea I can breathe , count breaths and all but as far as "getting inside my head and being one with myself" I dunno how to accomplish that.

I have really been thinking about starting to do the NEW energy ways again. I heard there are some ways to start up your chakras and it could lead to a more reliable OBE .. I dunno , I'll think about a technique and stick with it for 2 weeks before I switch.

4 weeks may not seem long to anyone here but , I'm a person that tried to project usually 2 times EACH day , I mean .. religiously lol. I'm so obsessed with it , its always on my mind.

I'm not very interested in Lucid Dreams to turn into OBEs cause I've done it once and I noticed that I just kinda got lucky.. I dream about astral projection in my dreams but I never realize that I'm actually IN a dream hehe.. I'll say .. ohh I cant wait to go astral tonight and then I wake up and go.. I SAID THAT IN A DREAM!! UGH!



This is what I'll do.. I'll go to bed at like 10:00 or 11 tops instead of 1 or 2 or 3 am.  This should help me to not fall asleep so fast when I try to project.

What are some suggestions that I try? Counting breaths , focusing on a mental picture to place myself in , staring at objects , falling asleep with my arm raised up , repeating mantras or just repeating something over and over while drifting to sleep . What are some things that you would recommend for someone that can easily notice when the dream images are sneaking up on him and can easily notice that his body is feeling numb and that its becoming more and more relaxed with every breath? I can notice all that but the dream images just knock me out.

Thanks guys , sorry it took me so long to get back , I took a ..nap today at 4pm and woke up at like almost 7pm.

thanks a bunch , that was some comforting information hehe. I'll just work on calming my mind a whole lot. Its really hard for me but I think I'll manage to do it in time.

Eric , thats a good question and it yields a simple answer. Yes ! You can project even if you dont recall any past experiences or spontaneous experiences. I for one , have not had any spontaneous OBEs in my childhood or anything . When I stumbled upon astral projection about a year ago , I dismissed it and thought that it was only a very realistic dream ( from what I've read on a webpage ) but just recently.. about 6 months ago , I found out what it really was and within the first week of practicing a breathing technique , I was having my first OBE!

You have the ability , I think everyone can do this as long as they devote a portion of their time to it. Some can do it easier than others. With experience , you begin to learn when your reaching the mind awake/body asleep state ( the key state to be in for a projection ). By asking questions here and reading as much info as you can find , you progress further and further until you have your first OBE.

If you devote just 15 minutes a night to astral projection , you should see results fairly soon. If you are really into it and decide to try once or twice during the day AND at night , you should see results much sooner.

Theres a whole bunch to explore out there , ask yourself if your ready to experience something you'll never forget and how badly you want to accomplish the feat!

I'de have to agree with ash , the sensations should get stronger as you remain awake during your meditation CD or whatever you use. As long as you remain awake , you should just KNOW when you are out of your body and able to move. If the tugging sensations leave you feeling paralyzed completely , maybe you should try a few things to loosen your astral body from the physical one.

I personally , try to simply get up with my physical body but think about moving my astral body instead and come to find out , my astral body moves and my physical body just stays there. I dont know what exactly the tugging sensations are a sign of , I dont know what kind of technique yer using but it sounds like your on your way , keep it up.

heres something that can prove to you and someone else that you have a psi ball made.... Make one and once you feel your fingertips and the palm of your hand tingling (not much , just slightly ) then get someone to put their hand in between yours as you SLOWLY open it up .. Then focus on ( and visualize*) the ball moving only to one hand... then when yo ufeel that all of the energy has moved to one hand , simple start moving it to the other hand and visualize it going through that person's hand as well and start moving it completely to the other hand.. this is when they usually take their hand out really fast with a .. somewhat constapated look on their face lol... They tell me that it feels like you just shoved your fist through their whole hand if done right.


If your doing it alone then simple try for the tingling in your fingertips and feel heat , coldness , magnetic feelings , electric feelings , pressure. Once you get one or more of those feelings , then you have a psi ball.  You can do some amazing things with this energy. I've proven it to skeptical people for about a week now everyday. They look at me like I'm crazy until they feel it go through them. Its not in their head either.. I've proven this by not letting them see where I have my hands on their back.. I have my hands far enough away so that its not body heat they feel.

Have fun with this stuff and when your ready to move on.. I guess the next step would be .. constructs? I'm gonna work on giving my psi massages to people hehe.. Maybe I'll make a breakthrough in psionic therapy! []