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[if done properly]

I was just reading something and what th heck does fasting have to do with projecting!?

I don't know what you were reading but... one reason could be... fasting has the potential (if done properly - you need to be careful all through the fast - on the entrance to, while on and coming off - for all sorts of reasons too many to mention here) to cleanse the physical body & cause healing and when the physical body has more energy and life force flowing through it... well it could assist us in AP'ing though promoting a clearer mind, increasing concentration abilities, retention of information & projections and increasing the energetic resources flowing through us & our energy body .... this and more COULD help us in AP'ing...

could be something along these lines....

[PURPOSE]

where's the begining? the initial point of creation and where did it come from.

I've asked this of myself also... earlier i wrote:

Where did it originate and who can tell?
How??

The only reason i keep wondering about this is that i think it may help me understand the creator and its PURPOSE more fully..

To me understanding the PURPOSE and the creators vision for us/me and ensuring that i/we reach or exceed that... - probably HEAPS of lifetimes of exploration here.... This is the main priority for me..

So what is the PURPOSE of the universe?? Should we start a new thread for this (maybe the philosophy section) though no one seems to read the philosophy section too often....

can it be possible that this universe is a tiny needlespace on a much bigger scale( step up from this) and much slower relative time which makes it look fast and as soon as our bang universe reaches the boundaries it will explode into another much larger space startign the cycle over.

Wondered about this..
If so how does this current universe interact with the first??

which then means there is energy remaining in our time from all previous bangs and bigs.

Interesting..... i figure you mean "previous big bangs"

and another thought
if according to scientists our universe is slowing down and  the energy is distributing evenly throughout the space.

Is it... I thought years ago i had heard that the universe is currently expanding.. Is its' expanding that is slowing??

which leaves only one thing if everything is so interdependent with eachother and cannot exist by itsself than it must have started immediately as a whole  system appeared out of something. and kept on going

.....

[Creator]

I don't disagree with you Venus.  To me all dreams are projections, some to collective environments, some to subconsciously produced environments.  But I distinguish them by the exit, just for classification purposes.  If I perceive an exit, I call it OBE or AP.  If I don't, I call it dream, whether lucid or not.  To me all have value, for different purposes.  It's just how I classify the experience.

Easiest way to differentiate the two i have heard of..

Thank you CFTraveler for your input!

Question though: If some projections/dreams are to collective environments (produced collectively), some to subconsciously produced environments (produced by us) then what is producing the RTZ? what is keeping it together? The Creator? is the creator also involved in our subconsciously produced environments..

[learning]

I guess this all depends on your definition of pollution. Maybe it's the misguided thinking that prompted the creation of physical life. Maybe higher forms of life became bored with what "they" had and wanted to experience more, less perfect moments. 

Interesting... more "less perfect" moments COULD make for more INTENSE learning experiences.. Just to make sure you've learnt the lesson properly... 

This was basically the original question I had when I opened this topic . What I think may be happening is that thought created everything "Over time". I think that some super focused and intelligent lifeform of pure thought set the laws of physics into motion which resulted in physical matter. My belief at the moment "And this might change tomorrow" is that this lifeform put these laws into place so that an infinite number of physical worlds would come into existence so that an infinit number of experiences from the infinite number of lifeforms inhabiting these worlds could bring back the memories to it's consciousness. The earth would just be one of these worlds.

Very similar thinking to my own.. Thanks for the thread

so if theres no real physical matter to begin with how did it become physical and real?

Not sure.. i'm also not sure if: physical = real

though my original asumption to how this happened was:

What arose first to create the physical universe you see before you?

I believe that there was not physical before there was physical-less (non-physical).
That there was not dark before there was light, & that there was not cool before there was warmth.

But was it pure thought or feeling that first inhabited the physical-less?

Where did it originate and who can tell?
How??

My current belief (based partly on what i sense in my body when asking these kinds of questions) is:
that an intelligence (CREATOR) was born from light and created the physical environment with the help of warmth. How?? I don't know.. All i can guess is, it was EXTREMELY INTELLEGENT and saw a purpose as well as how to design the universe before creating it...

Was it pure thought or feeling that first inhabited the physical-less?
This i cannot tell.. i have trouble conceiving of thought without a corresponding sensation/feeling. I would think this would have been almost simultaneous and the feedback of thought on feeling, feeling on thought, could have triggered something from THE NOTHING. If there was a NOTHING though it still is almost inconceiveable to me as to how that first spark of awareness came into existence. It must have known itself soooooo well before this spark of awareness was to be able to identify itself... in A NOTHING

Though i'm not sure that it matters to us... Maybe in some far off time it will matter but i think what is most important currently is finding what is the deepest PURPOSE to the universe and how we can improve this current universe

That is of course.... if there is a PURPOSE and it is not ALL here by CHANCE??

Interesting.. when you said

Sometimes their astral bodies go to places but they have little lucidity (not awake in the astral), so they think they were dreaming when in actual fact, they were not.

Where were they when they thought they were dreaming??

By this definition were they projecting at a lowish level of lucidity?

BTW, maybe you would be willing to give the IAC definition of a dream?  I'm curious..

So am i.. Thank you,

Newmethod

I don't pay much attention to dreams.

Thank you for your comments but i hope you pay dreams enough attention as dreams can offer some much needed counsel at times... and can be very insightful in themselves

mild tingling may just be energy moving in your enery body but i don't think everyone gets intense vibrations when they project.

then I felt something like the world is going round and round, but I couldn't breath just like the last time I did.

I'd like to think this is the vibrational stage..

I am still learning how to AP from the awake state myself.. So far i've only made it out and gained astral sight when moving from LD->OBE. When i come from this state i seem not to get vibrations...

When practicing conscious AP from the awake state i have entered states where i experience a wobbly or side to side (rocking) feeling.. This is combined with an intense enery (that i'm not sure is vibrations), but the only way i can manage to be "with" this energy is by breathing deeply and intensely. At times the breath distracts me but at other times i can maintain being with this "energy" through strongly concentrating on my double and confusing myself about where i am.. at times this energy may then be replaced with a sensation of lightness...

I really appreciate your help. Is that really the vibration stage?

No worries...

I also wonder if these are "vibrations" as i find this happens at the same time i am becoming more confused about my position (am i residing with my body or am i where i am imaging myself/projectable double to be)..

Anyone with more experience on vibrations and conscious OBE care to input whether they believe what we are experiencing are vibrations. Cause it looks like we are up to about the same point.. Are we getting close to conscious exit??

Now I just ask to have the OBE before sleep and hope it happens.  I also tend to wake up for a few seconds now and then, especially in the morning hours, so I tell myself in those seconds that hey, what no OBE yet?  Well I better have one after I go back to sleep this time!  Then I go back to sleep. I just kinda keep needling my brain for one and I will usually get it in a few days.  But personally, I think a lot of it is just remembering what you are already doing often. I think we all OBE often but we just forget.  The trick is to remember.  Anyway that works for me.  Maybe it helps take the mystery out of it.  Think of it as normal and natural and I think that makes it much easier to do.  Plus try to let go of expectations. I think if you have an expectation about what OBEs will be like, and then you are trying for the expectation, then you are trying for something that is not an OBE.  Because your expectation will not likely be accurate.  So let go of all expectations.  Open yourself to 'whatever cool thing' or some such more vague plan and that can help.  Cuz you can never really describe it or imagine it accurately in advance.  The reality of it will always be different than what you expected.   

Thanks for this.. i do have expectations.. Your words may help me in the future,

Thank you

I found this thread while reading throught someone else's version may help you.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_the_astral_faq/how_to_enter_the_astral_from_a_dream-t19319.0.html

Thx,

Newmethod 

Anyone know more about Kriya Yoga..

i have tried a few times unsuccessfully to find information on the technique itself..

Anyone know of anything on the web i can access for free??

I've used Dragon's Blood for cleansing purposes and it's never stopped me from projecting.

Just read it from here:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_obe_discussions/i_may_die_tonight_am_i_ready-t28954.0.html;msg236433#msg236433

Thought he must know - might work for him...

Hope SH is OK wherever he is?

@Star_gazer:

I like your new avatar it fits your username well..

So i figure

(and if you're reading this post 3 days from now I'm most definately gone as I've been posting here since 2003 and wouldn't pull something like that)

Has he actually moved on or did he become possessed

That was more than 10days ago..

i read on one of these earlier threads that Dragon's Blood is helpful in cleansing rooms and areas & will help STOP you AP'ing.

So...
.. useful if spontaneous AP's are a problem...

Thanks for your comments.  Questions for you - Can you fly in a dream?  Can you make conscious decisions in a dream?  I doubt it. 

i did it last night 

Although things were a bit hazy in this projection, I was assessing the environment around me, feeling compassion for others, and making decision to concentrate my energy to jump up and fly.

I've even had full energy body chakra stimulation in my dreams (which at the time caused me to believe i was awake or projecting) but on waking up i knew this chakra stimulation was definately happening in a dream.

[this]

Or put antoher way, maybe the laws of physics are controlled by thought.  When you get down to the building blocks of reality, quarks, string theory, etc, what we seem to be finding is that obseration/attention seems have a profound effect on what exists and what doesn't.  And that is OUR observation, not that of a separate god, other than if you want to argue we are all part of god. 
-Eva 

Exactly what i am refering to in these two quotes:

(added when typing: Now i think this CAN also cause a NEED for a physical environment - at least this is where it looks like it is ALSO inhabiting at the moment)

.......

that a creative force, both the CREATOR (if you believe in one) and ourselves as the creative force are inhabiting the physical environment. The laws seem to be the same for both (at least now). One of my theories is that there are infinite amount of smaller consciousness that together form what we deem the CREATOR, ONE or QUANTUM FIELD etc

But was it the CREATOR that formed our consciousness or did we originally form it ourselves?? ... Are we forming it ourselves in every moment, the position in which we reside in the FIELD being defined by our position in the FIELD at the time of the experience (whether past, present or future)?

But how do we experience ourselves in two places at once? what is keeping our bodies formed while we depart them? Is it simply the density of this physical plane and that thought is slower in this plane?

&

This "writing" can happen in EVERY moment, we, others and ALL (creator) is/are writing on the very fabric of the infinite universe.

But was it pure thought or feeling that first inhabited the physical-less?

I am suggesting here that the universe is still evolving and we, through our thoughts and actions, are contributing to this evolution OR we could be messing it up depending. But if there was an original creative force that CREATED & is looking to evolve would it not set up certain mechanisms in it's creation that would prevent it's consciousness from being polluted from our shi.tty thinking??

So blackcat:
sounds that you believe thought is the original constructive mechanism behind the universe we see before us?

Do you guys believe all came from THE NOTHING or was the physical CREATED somehow (possibly by chance) and then a consciousness became an opportunist & began to occupy the physical matter??

[borderline]

When i've been successful in converting an LD -> OBE i just think about projecting from inside my dream.. first this requires full lucidity and conscious control even for a short time...

The normal result of this is a melting or deterioration of the dream episode, then i feel a falling feeling (not sure if this is me re-entering my physical body or not) but after this i may or may not notice some more hypnogogic imagery (on one occasion i instantly had astral sight).. 

At times i have reentered another dream or had a continuation of the past dream from this point instead of projecting..
At times though i've been aware enough of the hypnogogic imagery and what i am trying to achieve to not be transported into a dream...

At about this time i've either slipped out effortlessly simply through my original intension (i believe) or used an exit technique (of which there are plently) to shift outside the body.. I've done this half a dozen times or so in the few weeks/maybe a month of so of practice.. (i have practiced LD's a lot over the years though, so not surprising i can shift from sleep-> dream-> LD -> into a state suitable for projection - i can do this more easily than in moving from awake -> OBE. At least so far..)

I figure i am ending up in the RTZ. i haven't ventured further than the room i am in but it looks just like it does in physical reality

i usually get an ld on every ap attempt, so i would just need to wake myself up or what?

You sound proficient at LD also...
So in answering, it is like waking yourself a little, but not too much.. become aware, have intention, and keep a flow of consciousness throughout. Remain peaceful as you become aware... I still remain on the borderline of sleep..

I imagine this is a requirement for success...

Hope this helps..
Sorry i don't know much more than i have mentioned above,

Newmethod

[against]

When your on the tip of the swaying sensation try focusing on a object in your room or rolling out of this swinging motion.

i have felt this swaying or wobbley feeling. I figured i was close when experiencing this...

@ ka0s: i'm a newbie to this site.. Do you exit successfully?

When you say:

rolling out of this swinging motion

Do you go against this "pull" of the swinging motion or with it.. Because when i've been experiencing the swaying i've been going with it, assuming it would help me "out of body"..

Are you suggesting more success could be had by going "out" or away from this swaying??

If you focus on an object in the room at this stage will you "automatically" find yourself out and away from your body???

I'd appreciate your help & input,
Thank you,

Newmethod 

[love]

r u sure u weren't dreaming? or it sounds like u were caught in the dream world in midst of projecting. That's happened to me a couple of times when i'v fallen to close to sleep.

I agree & also believe this sounds like a LD. If this is an OBE i've had heaps... 

But i absolutely love flying, its positively the best experience of any kind!

Yeah. next closest to that i love telekinesis..

I've had heaps of dreams in cycles where i'm doing a lot of attempting to project, and wake in them becoming lucid.
I do dream reality checks that i think should work (in the dream but seem not to - cause i'm sure i'm dreaming when i awaken) but the checks help convince me that i am awake and that the powers i possess (ie. flying or telekinesis, whatever) have passed through the dream state and are now occuring in the awake state... I'm like YES Finally...

that's strange, i didn't know there was a technique to it. i often can't stop myself from projecting, i find it difficult to stay inside my body and not float away and when i wake up suddenly i'm extremely worn out and it feels like where i project too is more real than reality.

interesting.. i definately need to attempt to project. Otherwise currently i am not conscious of the experience.

I would simply go to sleep and start dreaming..
& when i awake i may or may not remember the dream...
  let alone a full OBE ....

Do you find it a positve experience?
many others i have read of that simply CAN'T stop themselves from projecting seem to find it unpleasant..
You?

Lately i figure i must be fairly sensitive to energy.

As if i am to put a herb in my mouth - ie tribulus, brahmi, ginkgo biloba, Liquorice (amoung other things) i can feel some amount of (possibly) energetic effect upon my body and mind (and experience some of the sensations or feelings that happen after eating the herb for a week or longer or a few hours of digesting or drinking - depending upon which herb and how prepared).

Anyone else sensitive like this? or is it actually a level of sensitivity i should use?

I figure it is from sensitivity of energy body and awareness rather than any physical action becasue it is happening too fast to have any effect up any organ i know of, through any mechanism i am aware of.

PS. i'm a Naturopathic student so could be handy in future. i suppose it may not be that hard of a task to experience it by putting the herb on the tongue as one smell of an essential oil can create almost instant resluts (though this can - i think - be explained through physical actions) - it there more going on in the body at a quantum level than we know??

[It]

I wanted to share with you what i wrote today because it seems that it could be prudent to the issue you are discussing (I'd be keen on taking about some of this with you all, hopefully you can read it, and get what i am trying to explain. In the entire writing when i refer to CREATOR i refer to what ever you believe it to be  should you believe in one  and when i say SPIRITUAL or SPIRITUALLY throughout this document i mean in EVERY FEZIBLE way imaginable!) (The universal environment is ALL OF IT!?!)

The creator created for the sole reason of developing spiritually. It created the need for an environment which will cause the spiritual environment to grow. It needs earth (substance) to help it create a greater treasure. It understands better than us the conditions which will create the greatest universal environment required for spiritual growth. (added when typing: Now i think this CAN also cause a NEED for a physical environment - at least this is where it looks like it is ALSO inhabiting at the moment - what is the meaning and requirement for this?)

What came first darkness & light or warmth & cool?

I believe the creator came out of some darkness into a light (awakening). (Whether this is a metaphor or not doesn't really matter.) Whatever scale this is happening on doesn't matter either, it can happen in every way down to the very fabric upon which you were created (not refering to the typical biblical reference (not that I've read it)) - it can happen on a cellular level, on the molecular level, infinitely small and large - This "writing" can happen that in EVERY moment we, others and ALL (creator) is/are writing on the very fabric of the infinite universe.

What arose first to create the physical universe you see before you?

I believe that there was not physical before the physical-less (non-physical).
That there was not dark before there was light, & that there was not cool before there was warmth.

But was it pure thought or feeling that first inhabited the physical-less?

Where did it originate and who can tell?
How??

How long ago did it begin this process?
Was the physical inhabited at the start? Before the start?
Or
was/is there a possibility that the creator was not in fact the creator but occupied what was created before him/her
(maybe when the need for both him & her arises there is a requirement for some substance
And what the hell is happening when we are physically conceived/born?

Are our bodies ACTUALLY created with the help of a non-physical us before we incarnate??
Why?

I'd like to hear any answers anyone has for any of the/my questions throughout this writing? I'd like to discuss?

Please don't leave me in the Dark or am i about to redirect the course of a thread?

he also just wants to experience a drug to have the experience.

from experience all drugs legal or not (those in common recreational use anyway) have their own unique spin, their own unique way they cause you to view the world. I must say i've never tried this substance but i have used an array of substances in the past.

My friend who used this found the experience positive but the herb quite potent although it didn't last long. I've had other things with him in the past but he believes while on this drug the connection he felt to things around him (possibly himself/the oneness) was more strong than on e or mushrooms etc. He also felt he was melting into the ground he was laying on.. Was any of it real...?? .. he had fun as i have had most of the time i have used..

But if your brother is looking to use a drug for the first time "to have the experience" of using drugs.. fine.. but be warned if the experience is positive it is likely to happen again and there are so many drugs to experience, so many weekends, so many opportunites and this happening and that... where will it end!! When your mind is messed up, when you're cranky and the likely cause is either too much or too little drugs ... who knows anymore when you are at this stage and getting cranky is just a first sign.

Consider this from someone who used recreational drugs from the age of 15 till i was 29. I am now 31.. although most of it was fun & to a degree i feel i learnt some things (it caused me to further question reality, consciousness & the unknown) ..now when i look back at those years.. fu.ck that is a lot of wasted years.. a lot of wasted years where i could have been doing MORE to advance myself .. really advance myself through creating a more positve physical reality for myself.. advance through greater emotional intellegence & becoming a master of my mind and through having experiences that were tangible and real .. real in a way that i know was real and not just some made up crap from the drug induced coma on my mind. Please take these words with you as you travel further in this world,

Best Wishes
Newmethod

PS. If you are on this website you are probably years ahead of where i was when i was younger. You are already QUESTIONING!! Questioning will lead you on a lifelong search for answers. questions without concrete proof (it only needs to be concrete to you) will cause an emptyness that drugs and the drug experiences will not fill. You may think they are being filled while you are using but when you stop they will still be there. Drugs will not open the veil as long as you desire. If you can give yourself the time and patience to explore further without drugs masking your experience you will be a happier, more knowledgeable & more open person in the future. I am sure of that!

I projected through a lucid dream "I think" last night and ended up in a dark, gloomy, depressing version of where I live, just blacks and whites. (This has happened 5 times now). Not a nice place, I didn't feel any vibrations or sounds.

From my experience it is unlikely you will experience vibrations when projecting through the LD.

As to where you are going i do not know but it is interesting that you have found yourself there 5 times. Whether in an OBE or LD if it happened again it would be worth exploring why you are where you are when you are there..

I recommend you do some energy work and introspective work on yourself and see where that gets you.

I agree...

Yes I feel exactly like that. After an hour of unsuccesful "trying" I always feel extremely exhausted, almost like after some physical work, and I find it really difficult to fall asleep in these nights.

This is the thing that is discouraging me from trying more.

I also use to feel like this years ago when i was first attempting to project. Spent a few weeks attempting AP and this exhaustion and disruption to my sleep pattern a (as well as other "worldly" stuff) caused me to quit my practice. I've returned to practice after a long absence and on this return i haven't had any of the old symptoms that you describe. Not sure if my energetic system is stronger now but i think the main three reasons are that i don't feel this exhaustion now is:

1. I have less attachment to the NEED to project. I've resigned to the fact that it may take as long as a year to experience my first projection via the awake state and not entering through a LD (i have had a few successes OBE'ing through the LD)
2. My normal times to attempt projection would be in the moring after i awake and in the middle of the day (if i am not at work)
3. If i am attempting to project at night (before sleep) if/when i start to feel the 'tiring/exhausting' energy begin to dominate i simply roll over to sleep and leave it for another day.

I believe if i did my main projection attempts at night and attempted to push through this feeling (3. above) i would begin to tire and probably have difficulty sleeping as i have done in the past.

My current practice seems to energise me now unlike my old practice...