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Thanks Frank

No there was no physical sensation that pulled me back. I was assuming that I probably just need more practice to get "used" to the transition, Fear/exitement may very well play a roll. It is just reassuring to hear that one is basically on the right track and not doing some fundamental thing wrong.

It is just a bit annoying when I terminate the experience myself, by accident so to speak. practice, practice I guess......

Took me about 6 months

I made some more attempts to reach FoC 3, all of them failed  

What usually happens is the following:

I'm at FoC 2 and decide to try to reach Fz, then usually the thought pops up, that I might just end up in F1. I try to stay calm and start to defocuse the dreamscape. the slats usually appear without much problem. I then zoom into the blackness and the dreamscape just falls away.

Now the trouble start: I usually find myself in a blackness (Fz?) but after a very short periode of time ( about 1 sec.) I start to feel my body lying in bed. this inevitably takes my focus back to F1 and the experience ends
No chance I can fly around in Fz and explore the darkness, the feel of my  physical body just pos up by itself.  I tried to not focus on the physical, but I fail every time. What am I doing wrong?
Or maybe it would be better to try to zoom directly to F3 instead of Fz when leaving F2? Just defocus the dreamscape and focus on reaching F3? would that be the way to go?

Tom

I too had some success . I became aware within the dream environment and decided to try it out. I detuned my view  and the dream scape got some black splits (with some sparkling around at the edges?!) I zoomed into the darkness and the dream scape fell away entirely. I was in the 3-D-Blackness. at this point I didn't remember what to do next, so I just said, "I wanna go somewhere interesting". Soon something took my hand and I was dragged thru the blackness, if felt the "air" rushing at an enormous speed on my skin. after a while I found myself at a new picture, but at that very moment I awoke

I'll try again..........

No problem Sarah  I can be alittle annoying sometimes


Stephen what about that. Taking a extensive picture-Book, then open it randomly without looking at it and place it somewhere?

BTW last time a projected I felt a little indent at the wall, after I awoke I checked it and it really had a dent there!

I also heard from somebody else that he had better results with proof when using his tactile sense instead of sight.

Sarah, If you are 100% sure that you saw the card without any guessing then I would take that as proof if I was you:)
But you must understand my position as well:
I tried the experiment saw a card and it was the wrong card. Now, my problem may have been that my Subc. guessed the card which hindered me do correctly perceive it. (Just for the record:I believe the card trick is possible!)

BUT What is so threatening about repeating the trick?

Selski,

WOW! Congratulations! Have you been able to do it again? I know how hard that is, mind you, because of my own experiences.

Wow, again!

I don't wanna devaluate  that experience but it could have been pure luck. The card trick has been done by many people, myself included. Most of them have failed. It is nothing more but logical that from time to time somebody hits the card. If somebody has success it is more likely that he reports his experience. (If I would have been able to guess the card right during my own trail, I definitely would have posted it, since I failed I never wrote about it...)

If somebody can do it 3-times in a row, then I would call it a proof.

Allright I'LL TRY LOL

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17357

Wow! Thats quite some info I have to digest. Many thanks to Frank and also upstream for the thoughtful replies.
I can't wait to try it out on my own!
I guess it will take some practice , but at least I have a goal to work on.

Thanks again!  

How can I improve my dream Control? I can fly and be very strong if I want but I can not create things out of nothing or freeze People etc...

My idea was to picture myself being in the holodeck (Star Trek) and to give my orders to the computer: Like "Freeze People" "create Knife" etc..

But it doesn't work! Somehow my subconsciousness does not believe me. Any hints how I can gain more Control or Trick my Subc?

Thanks Tom

If I finally mange to slip out of my body I usually end up in the RTZ, soon after that I usually walk thru some door or something and end up in what I believe to be  FoC 2 (referring to the phasing model by Frank)  I usually can't notice any difference between this and my LD's.

What do I need to do to reach FoC 3 or even FoC 4? I really would love to visit this "places" but I have no clue how to go there?!

(I apologize if this question has already been answered)

Then there is something else that bothers me........................

Last time I had a AP I decided to fly into the sky, to see where this will lead me. Soon after I take off a strong wind captured me and pulled me up into the sky, after a short travel I found myself at a utterly strange setting.
It was a very strange little building with a small room inside. I soon found myself inside the room. the room was very small and had no openings to escape no water inside just a dried out sink, there was a huge boiler above the room the made a terrible noise. I realized that this room would lead it's inmate to a terrible death, cause he would be in able to sleep nor drink! (BTW: I hate boilers, I cant sleep when any boiler noise is around......) the scene touched me on a very emotional basis.

After I short while inside the room I couldn't endure the atmosphere and switched (do not really know how!) to a nice forest (very LD like)

Any thoughts to this experience appreciated

Cheers Tom

I had a interesting dream last night. The funny thing was that it got frightened. Not in the sense that I had a encounter with some frightening being, no, I simply didn't notice my sister coming in my room (inside the dream) and once she touched my shoulders I jerked. I think this is interesting cause I thought that I create my dreams, but it seems kind of odd to me that I would be able to scare myself this way. Usually if something bad happens inside a dream I feel it coming. Maybe I walk thru a dark forest and then I think " Oh, I hope there are no monsters here" and a couple of seconds later a monster appears. But not this time, it really caught me completely unaware.
My conclusion is, that whatever scared my was not a part of myself, thus dreams are not a mere construct by oneself.

Check out stephen Laberge "exploring the world of lucid dreaming"

Tombo:

Then how do you fall asleep?

You don't "pull awareness" away from the body. You just let the physical body get on with what it wants to do. Many times I'll be focused within F2oC and be totally aware of being in the physical. I think people generally have got too latched on to the idea that the physical must be out of the picture completely, first, before any other thing can take place. Then, what happens is they get some physical-body issue come up and they think, drat that's blown it.

With me, I'll be noticing within myself and I may get some uncomfortableness to do with my physical, say, my left knee starts itching. So I'll scratch it. But I'll still be noticing what's going on within. You don't have to let your concentration be broken. Okay, perhaps there are elements that are easier said than done.

I am particularly sensitive to outside sounds. If I don't have silence then I find it incredibly difficult. But I get around this by wearing earplugs when project during the day. At night, where I live is deathly quiet, so there is no problem for me.

But many times I'll have physical issues to deal with. Even going for a pee in the middle of a projection. I can still hold the feeling and project right back into it. I haven't always been able to do that. There was a time I thought, oh heck, that's ruined it... and so it did. But now I'm far more laid back about the whole process.

Yours,
Frank

That's good news for me. How do I fall asleep? good question, I usually toss and turn for quite awhile (30-60 minutes) before I somehow loss consciousness. I usually go pee during the night, after that I fall asleep faster. I had  severe insomnia a couple of years ago, therefore I have a hard time falling asleep although the insomnia is much better now.

So if I understand you right it is not crucial to be completely relaxed and unaware of the body but just not hold the main focus of attention within oneself, so to speak?

There is an other question in my mind: You say we should try to phase in the evening. I always thought it won't work at that time cause the REM -sleep is far away. So, you say it doesn't matter. I would figure, I could try to phase when I go back to bed in the middle of the night as well then.
Would you say that is a option as well?

My Problem usually is that I can not shift my awarness away from my body. I feel uncomfortable and have to move alot if I dont move I still feel my Body I feel how my belly lifts from the breathing etc and I need to swallow from time to time. I guess as long as one can not completly pull the awarness away from the Body phasing is not posssible, correct?
Any hints appreciated.........

Mindfreak:

I'm not sure if this is on-topic for the thread, if not tell me someone and I shall subject myself to a severe moderating.

I don't know what it is about people in the way they suddenly jump to conclusions when coming to a thought about an action they consider would be impossible for an "ancient" civilisation. Like, you take a big heavy slab of rock and think, wow, that would have been impossible, etc., etc., so "aliens" must have done it.

So what, they built a few pyramids?

Maybe they were just bored. After all, there was no telly, no videos, no Internet. Lots of short winter days, standing around in the cold with nothing to do. What better than a long-term pyramid project to occupy people's minds and keep them warm in the winter?

Yours,
Frank

Is it really cold in winter time in Egypt? Anyways it it is not as easy as you think it is. People that believe aliens landed on earth in the past, do not just figure this because they see a big rock that was moved or something:

Just a few things:
- the distance from the pyramid to the north pole is exactly equal to the distance from the pyramid to the centre of the earth.
-pyramids are found also in south America and China, similar charakters as well as drawings that clearly show People from othe continents are found as well.
- ancient People talk alot about aliens that came from the sky, like the Indian vedes
Just read Erich v. Däniken and you all have hundreds of cases like that

There are many findings all over the world that do not fit into the picture we currently have about our past.

got to me?.......you mean Frank
yup.....he got to you!

I can't find his questions, can somebody link me? Thanks

To God:

-What is the propose of this thread?

-Is the god the old testament talks about, is that you?

I agree with you

I just took a look at:
http://www.joyofsatan.com/

I must admit I learned some new things about Satanism. But lets face it, it is a sect like most "Religions" are.
Most of the things that are said on this web page are probably true and spiritual. So, I just shorty mention what I don't like:

1: They realize that the Jewish god wasn't really good. This is obviously true (IMO) just read thru the old testament. But now they fell into the same trap as to think that Satan was actually the real God. I would strongly suggest that these people read thru some books by Erich v. Däniken. Soon they will realize that the old testament is a report about the landing of a alien race on our planet. Yahweh/Jehovah was an alien and Satan was an alien, no goods involved. They got into a fight and the rest is history. This is all very well documented in the Däniken books. Satan/Yahweh were beings like you and I, they lied, they got angry etc..

2: They say " Satanism is a life loving religion" but why then, I wonder do they write in red (blood) and their Symbols are covered with flames (destruction)? Satanism is usually perceived as I Life denying Thing, I don't feel as that they really try to get away from that image.
It seems obviously to me that they feed from being shocking.

3: I can't really understand what exactly their problem  with Jesus is, he obviously did healing, good things and preached Love.

Yeah, I too experience this up/down thing, The others summed it up pretty well.
Expectations and meditation don't fit.........

I completely agree with all things you guys said, but want to add some of
my thoughts (mixed with your thoughts ).

I believe that consciousness has no dimensions. So we can not say consciousness is 3D or something (BTW: Nobody here did say so), and it might be, that this very assumption is the key. Through consciousness we have access to everything. As JoWo pointed out any xD world can only be  fraction of realty and it will never be able to truly comprehend the universe within that xD system.
Consciousness on the contrary has no Dimensions, therefore it might actually be possible for us (consciousness) to perceive and understand the ultimate reality (like it is claimed in many Religions, Enlightenment etc.)
Consciousness and All-Entity are therefore the same thing in a way. Not seeing this is a delusion (maya), understanding it will remove all suffering (enlightenment)
If this is true, it will never be possible to describe consciousness and mind within a scientific system, there will never be a theory of everything. The only way to understand is to "see" . To see is difficult, though, since consciousness is usually focused within 3 D blocking it's view.

I don't know if this line of thinking is correct, but it makes a lot of sense to me

[Telos]

Telos

Why? Does his mother's opinion, that he was destined for a greater existence in a different form, mean nothing? Didn't he give up material existence?

My question is: why was he born on this world then? I do ^not say that he wasnt evolved per se, it is just that I don't see reason to assume he was. Do you see them?
Usually somebody kills himself because he is unhappy, tries to run away from something, overwhelmed by problems, this, I do not consider evolved.
And by killing himself he causes pain for otheres, not good as well

Maybe you've found your definition of spirituality, then - subjecting all or some control of your fate to other powers (imaginary or otherwise).

No, no that I would consider the opposite of Sprituality. But killing oneself is a bit a harsh action of taking control I think

Lines

Smart people created nuclear weapons because people in power told/forced them to.

Usually not, I think.Some Smart People like to see how far they can push it, plus they are greedy, selfish, etc like anybody else.

But there are lots of good things that will be invented too, and thats why we need more smart people.

I'm not against smart People! All I try to say is that IQ has very little to do with spiritual development, IMO. Smart People can be very mean and do terrible things and smart people can be very noble and do great things.

Or lets put it another way Spiritual development is a process, you evolve , IQ is by definition a static value, No Progress in IQ there is. The two things should not be mixed up.

Course, there's that group of scientists who want to try making a micro-blackhole in a lab overseas (near Switzerland?). That idea, I find, to be the stupidest idea ever. If I can remember where I got the information about that from, I'll post it.

That would be in CERN then near Geneva. I'm Swiss, I'll keep you guys posted when I see the horizon getting dark....lol

I couldn't help but to laugh at the idea that if they'd actually succeeded in creating a Black Hole, there'd be no point in reporting it

They probably have a plan to keep things under control, the hole would probably be keept in a vaccum or something

Beavis

I am not perfect. I'm not always where I am because I tried to come here. How do you know you didnt come here by accident?

Good point, I guess we have to thrust other who say it isn't so..

If I have all that power, why do I get tired after doing psychic things? Its not cause I think I'm tired. Something necessary to psychic things is slowly depleted. Even when I trick my mind into thinking I have a huge amount of power, it rarely demonstrates more than pushing small things across the floor. Not believing you have power can be a bottleneck to power, but when that is gone, limited energy is an other bottleneck. If you believe more, you still wont have enough energy for the amount of power you describe.

I think he meant we have a infinite potential, but we might not have access to it right now. maybe you have to evolve more before you can tap that energy? Can you really push things around? How long did you parctice?

Regardless of if "oneness" is true, its still better to kill 1 person to save 2 people from death, than to let the 2 die.

It is pretty unlikely that thuis situation will pop up. If it does I believe it may have a reason and that when you listen to your heart You'll know what to do. It is probably better to try to save both.

[Psan]

Psan

I agree. Your thinking starts reflecting in your daily lives. You start behaving differently. Then you keep a low profile, when people start noticing the 'odd' behavior of yours  
I've seen that when some people find that you are 'good', they start using you. They will rob you right down to your last clothes. Perhaps that's why one must refuse or defend oneself, even if you find it non-spiritual.

No, no thats not what I meant. You are of course right in that we still need to look after us. But I believe I evolved Beiing will do that in wise way. Free of negative emotions for example.

The wish can be anything, if there is any.

Wouldn't it be wise not to have any wishes? No wishes = No Problem  

Alexd

Just by reading some of his quotes online you can begin to see how deep and inspirational his thinking was.

Yeah, I like his quotes too, just wanted to make sure that IQ ≠ Wisdome
So, no Telos, for me I don't see any reason to think he was spritual evolved, rather the opposite I would say.

Leannain

IMO i think so.
but to be honest i'd prefer his IQ over spiritually evolved  

So you rather be rather be in the postion that you shoot a bullet thru your head like he did? IQ is not everything you know, Smart People did terrible things, smart People created nuclear weapons. A lot of smart People are unhappy.
Beavis

What about the command "dont smoke weed, or go to jail" or "speed limit 10" ?

Spirituality can't mean, giving up commen sense. I believe that even for a evolved being, there are still rules one has to respect. What goes a round must come a round.