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I agree, that just because in the case *IF* there is an afterlife, it doesnt 'prove' of a deity

It doesnt 'disprove' it either though

Link: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/15/my-take-science-and-spirituality-should-be-friends/?hpt=C1

By Deepak Chopra, Special to CNN

For most people, science deserves its reputation for being opposed to religion.

I'm not thinking of the rather noisy campaign by a handful of die-hard atheists to demote and ridicule faith.

I'm thinking instead of Charles Darwin, whose theory of evolution has proved victorious over the Book of Genesis and its story of God creating the universe in seven days. Since then, God has been found wanting when measured against facts and data. With no data to support the existence of God, there is also no reason for religion and science to close the gap between them.

Yet the gap has indeed been closing.

Religion and spirituality didn't go away just because organized religion has been losing its hold, as suggested by showing decades of  declining church attendance in the U.S. and Western Europe.

Despite the noisy atheists, two trends in spirituality and science have started to converge. One is the trend to seek God outside the church. This has given rise to a kind of spirituality based on personal experience, with an openness to accept Eastern traditions like meditation and yoga as legitimate ways to expand one's consciousness.

If God is to be found anywhere, it is inside the consciousness of each person. Even in the Christian West we have the assurance of Jesus that the kingdom of heaven is within, while the Old Testament declares, "Be still and know that I am God."

The other trend is a growing interest by scientists in questions about consciousness.

Twenty years ago, a respectable researcher couldn't ask daring questions such as "do we live in an intelligent universe?" or "Is there mind outside the body?" That's because materialism rules science; it is the core of the scientific worldview that reality is constructed out of physical building blocks - tiny things like atoms and quarks - whose motion is essentially random.

When you use words like "intelligence" and "design" in discussing the patterns in nature, immediately you are tarred with the same brush as creationists, who have hijacked those terms to defend their religious beliefs.

But time brings change, and next week my foundation is hosting a symposium in Southern California where the gap between science and spirituality will be narrow somewhat, not on the basis of religion but on the basis of consciousness.

Outside the view of the general public, science has reached a critical point. The physical building blocks of the universe have gradually vanished; that is, atoms and quarks no longer seem solid at all but are actually clouds of energy, which in turn disappear into the void that seems to be the source of creation.

Was mind also born in the same place outside space and time? Is the universe conscious? Do genes depend on quantum interactions? Science aims to understand nature down to its very essence, and now these once radical questions, long dismissed as unscientific, are unavoidable.

My conference, called the Sages and Scientists Symposium: The Merging of A New Future, is only one in a wave of gatherings through which hundreds of researchers are working to define a new paradigm for the relationship between spirituality and science.

It is becoming legitimate to talk of invisible forces that shape creation - not labeling them as God but as the true shapers of reality beyond the space/time continuum. A whole new field known as quantum biology has sprung up, based on a true breakthrough - the idea that the total split between the micro world of the quantum and the macro world of everyday things may be a false split.

If so, science will have to account for why the human brain, which lives in the macro world, derives its intelligence from the micro world. Either atoms and molecules are smart, or something makes them smart.

That something, I believe, will come down to a conscious universe.

Agree or disagree, you cannot simply toss the question out the window. It turns out that the opposition of science to religion is a red herring. The real goal of a new science will be to expand our reality so that spiritual truths are acceptable, along with many other subjective experiences that science has long dismissed as unreliable.

We are conscious beings who live with purpose and meaning. It seems unlikely that these arose form a random, meaningless universe. The final answer to where they came from may shake science to its core. I certainly hope it does

He's right, Fresco.
For all we believe about astral projection and everything related to it... we humans don't really KNOW what happens when our physical bodies die.

For all we know, it really could be the end.  We *BELIEVE* it's not, and some of us strongly believe this, but ultimately we don't *know*. 

I guess we dont know anything for sure, but I think there's enough evidence now to strongly believe we dont die

Death is just somthing that occurs naturally and for all we know, it really is the end.

By the way, I obviously don't understand many of the things you talk about so why don't you enlighten me. What is this "programming" and "energy" you speak of? I'm very much a man of science so fire away on this "energy"

Are you sure you're in the right forum?? 

Names are something that always come out strange for me.  I asked one once who they were, and they said "King Cab" lol.  I think it could be just our own interpretation of the energy that does that

The only lucid dream I had so far was in a small town where the houses had the owner's names on each door, instead of house-numbers.  I thought was pretty cool.  I'm guessing perhaps they're waiting for loved ones to die so they can be found easier maybe

Now you just have to consistently exit, Xanth.

I know, easier said then done 

i've just been informed... for the record those high in the buddhist monks high high i'm talking are now having the belief that Gods do exist and it has been for about one and half years...this belief...God/s exist

Of course God exists.  Do you really think all life on earth in all its splendor just popped out of the ground from some amoeba??  For every software program there had to be a software designer. Life is no different, some intelligent designer had to make a blueprint for life to exist.

Its very strange that most people cant wrap their head around this simple concept.  
Unless of course they have a giant hate-on for God, and dont want to see the truth which is basically staring them in the eye

According to Adrian Cooper's book karma can manifest itself from a previous lifetime into the next life through reincarnation.
So perhaps the person in question ripped off another person of his home and possessions in his previous lifetime.

He was probably a lawyer      
(just kidding)

I can only speak for my life but I can tell you karma is a very real thing.  I learned that the hard way  

Some Bibles describe God not as singular but as plural Gods in book of Genesis

MDM, when are you gonna update The Super Dimensions on your website??!

I'm yearning with much anticipation 

Cool story Bro

Ooooh... I see what you mean.

It looks like she's already "out" at that point.  She's using that as a means to remain consciously aware.  It's a good one too, as it gives you something non-physical to focus upon as you're going about your projection, it keeps your focus of awareness firmly entrenched in the non-physical.

I used this a week ago, and it worked amazing to keep me consciously aware and in the non-physical. 

You mean it helps you stay out so you dont snap back into your physical body, right??

I remember the video you're talking about, but not really the details about it.  LoL 

In my opinion, anytime you switch your Focus of Awareness from one Focus to another Focus while remaining consciously awake and aware is Phasing.

You're probably right.  This is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jax2cMAPhlw

She's standing up and doing some weird stuff with her hands around 2:00 mark

I thought phasing you did standing up though 

In that OBE4U video (the one you call soft-porn...LOL) the chick does phasing standing up while rubbing her hands

that's also what I meant .. ALL THAT IS .. IS ... THE COMPUTER
it computes itself  
it is not "IN" the sky, it "IS" the sky ... and everything else, including us as incarnated beings on this biophysical dimension

You mean SkyNet then??!!  

I'm getting better at it now that I've changed my routine.  Previously I was meditating but IMO thats doing it wrong (or doing it the hard way).
Best way to achieve OBE is to try and fall asleep while remaining conscious.  Meditation doesnt do it for me, its much harder that way.

So simply let yourself fall asleep all the while telling yourself not to lose consciousness. 
Easier said then done of course, but its IMO the best way

Thanks and sorry about the unneeded post  

No need to apologize.  This forum is a very big place and if we didnt have repeat threads from time to time I would never be able to read all threads.

I'm also of the opinion that going back in time is impossible, but I could be wrong

Perhaps we only see it if we need to, like a kind of reassurance. 

Or maybe its comprised mostly of air, and we can only see it under certain atmospheric circumstances. 
Kinda like how we can only see air on our breath when its below zero outside

If it were true, the only people to know for sure would be dead.

Aahh......an excellent point indeed.
Maybe they have their own 'broken cord forum" in the astral world, just like this forum  

Damnit, what happened to my cord, Joe??!!  I thought you had my back!!
Fook, bro, I didnt think you were actually gonna take your astral scissors and try to cut it! 
Damnit, now look at me, I got no cord man, I'm fooked!!

Just as the title suggests, can it be broken and do you "die" as a result??!

This guys says 'yes': http://www.rickrichards.com/astral/Astral4.html

Of course by dying I mean physical death, not astral body death

No he's not.  There aren't any physics theories that use infinite dimensions.  String Theory uses 10 dimensions (9 physical, 1 time), that's the largest number of dimensions in a working theory.

There are multiple different parallel universe theories.  He could be talking about any number of them. 

Or he could be talking about different astral planes.  You dont know either or for sure, PR

At approx. 29:00 the guy talks of infinite parallel universes, but I think he's basically talking about the different dimensions, only he gives it a different label

Interesting BBC show on physics and reality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Z8CqAiYI8

Have you considered the Monroe/Moen concept, that all Hells are created by people themselves?

Discarnates end up in various Hells because that's their state of mind. And not because some external force puts them in Hells.

OK, but in the end what does it matter since the discarnate finds themselves in a very unpleasant dimension and most likely will remain there for quite some time.  The only thing thats wrong with modern church thinking re: hell is that its eternal, which clearly it isnt

I don't believe in hell, or "tests". God would never send anyone to "hell" to be punished for failing a "test" (especially one they know nothing about), as we are ALL God and all innocent beings at the core - so what purpose would that serve? The only "sin" is thinking you are different and separate from God.  I wish people would realize this and stop fearing punishment.  We are free beings and are entitled to limitless mistakes. The vengeful God of the Bible is petty and unimaginative; he's just a projection from archaic humans and their miniature little ideologies.  I am a good person, but I don't condemn those who are not (not good people only in the eyes of society, NOT in the eyes of God) because we are all equal and all deserving of love. The idea of "hell" and those who believe in it really annoy me for some reason... such little faith in the unconditional love of God. 

It doesnt matter what you call it, hell or something else, there's clear evidence that the absolute lowest astral planes are very unpleasant dimensions and closely resemble what we would picture "hell" to be like.  I dont think there's much debate about that