Messages

** After conferring online, I'm come to the conclusion that this wasn't an OBE after all. Were it a nonphysical arm it would have most likely sunken or floated, rather than reacting to the imagery/dream. The nonphysical body (usually?) hovers, or sinks, or what have you, exclusive of what is being dreamt/seen in imagery/dreams. It seems I moved my dream hands, like I would if I'd become lucid solidly in the middle of a dream. In this instance I simply nearly applied WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming). This scenario I hypothesize could be handled just as I had I woken up solidly in the middle of the dream: move! Roll away, etc., from the physical body. The hands in this experience I conclude were theta/dream hands.

It did it again.

lol

I made a post, and when I went to post it, the spelling cow check came on.

I wrote the word "hypnagogic" in the post, and the spell-check distinguished it as wrong, and suggested the word: "spongecake" to substitute.



LOL

Hey.

Remember, that is often how it used to start for me. It's a process, a skill. Just keep practicing, regularly, daily, and you will progress to full blown images. This isn't the first time I meditated to get imagery. Those examples are beginnings what you can do if you practice regularly.

I added an addition to the above instructions for you:

7. Addition: You may not get imagery the first time, or the first day, or the first several times or days (or weeks) you practice. Your practices accrue over time by practicing daily. It's like with each practice you can get a little further.

I wish you success!!

Hey all...

I had an experience with a psychic vampire, a lady I used to work with. She displayed her tendencies the moment we met, trying to get me to make inappropriate use of company property for her.

Then perhaps months later she made some comment I took as trying to get me to prove something to her or something. I didn't take her bait. She got angry. She got quiet. Without me paying attention to it at the moment, I started feeling very sleepy. My eyes started drooping, I was slumped in my chair, and I couldn't concentrate. She left as her shift ended before mine. A bit after she left I felt invigorated with energy again.

The next day she came in bragging about the writing she did while she was gone. I was much into writing at the time, and she bragged about how she wrote something and it's going to make it big and she 'got it off me'. Several times she specifically said, "and I got it off you", or something to that effect. I saw it to mean when she drained my energy, she somehow accentuated her writing ability since I write. I remember reading of people passing energy amongst each other, and then getting the cravings that are trademark of the other. Or perhaps because that is a skill she admired in me that is where she focused the energy she stole. Either way, I also know and knew that such an embellishment is short-lived.

Fortunately I was reading up on the book "Psychic Vampires" by Joe Slate. The next day I started experimenting with one of his procedures, using this scenario as a testing ground, a procedure he teaches to stop an attack immediately. It is to form a ring with the thumb and middle fingers. Do this on both hands. Then interlock these rings. Now, while with this hand gesture, imagine a radiant field or shield of energy surrounding you like a spherical halo, protecting and containing you.

A bit after she started her energy drain thing again I did this. Immediately she reacted. (At the time she sat on the other side of the cubicle wall from me.) She shuffled in her seat, and started looking over the cubicle wall trying to see what I was doing. She seemed questioning and a bit confused. Perhaps she never had a 'victim' who was able to offset her actions, or who was aware of what she was doing.

Before I started this procedure I tangibly felt the drain of energy going over the wall from my head, and I felt the deleterious effects like sleepiness and slouch-i-ness coming on. Immediately at doing this technique the energy drain stopped. My energy stopped being drained and I could feel the field protecting me. She was greatly disturbed, peeking over the wall trying to find out what was going on, and she seemed confused.

This alerted me to the fact that, however she discovered it, she knew what she was doing. Obviously she knew, and then she knew that I knew, and vice versa. We passed this look at each other that told it.

I started sitting farther away from her (nice and far), and now from afar she would give me that "I know, you know, I know that you know, and you know that I know" look- I know I gave it too. I gave it each time I sat elsewhere than where I used to sit everyday. Soon she stopped the thought of trying to vampire me. The looks of knowing ceased to pass between us.

I felt a bit violated, but I looked towards the positive and thought that it is good that I was able to gather some empirical knowledge on the matter. I guess, perhaps, I wondered still if it's all 'real'. That series of events put many coins in the "it's real, and this stuff really happens" slot. And I learned that the techniques and ideas in Joe Slate's "Psychic Vampires" are practical and effective, and that we do have the power to protect and nurture our energy.

________

Do you have any psychic vampire experiences to share??

Hey Draege and everyone..

This experience of the arm was one of those where the apparent nonphysical body didn't seem substantial or physial-like, as some projections where you have no doubt that they are projections. What do you think? Would you count this as a nonphysical limb disconnection? I did, and would like some input on whether you do, and why or why not??

*******

11/8/05 – 118 – Into Sleep Experiment – I had a slight success. I stayed up late as usual when I'm off, and even later since I'm off and on vacation, so I was substantially sleepy upon starting. I started practice around 3:15 AM. I was practicing getting OBE while going into sleep, and building on the mediations started as a part of experimenting with getting imagery, I sat and did a 4:2 rhythmic breathing meditation and this got me to a brief stint of imagery. (I may have thrown in a few moments of imagining looking at and moving around my arms and hands briefly, before just sitting and relaxing in stillness.)
I was about to quit several times but remembering my previous experience I just kept going and kept sitting, and a blip came sure enough. In conjunction with this blip of imagery was an apparent releasing of my right nonphysical arm. Something happened in the imagery that caused me to want to grab something that was forward and to the right of me, or to swat something to the right of me. Thus I lost myself in the imagery that quickly- it was only a matter of moments of imagery- and was reacting to the imagery. It felt like a very 2-dimensional, insubstantial feeling right arm reached out or swatted outwards at something, which alerted my awareness, and then it came back and I brought the 'ghost arm' back. I saw the imagery, but felt and had control over the arm.
The swat or grab was like a backhand slap in motion, except the palm was turned towards the motion and made an attempt to grasp or catch towards the end of the motion- like a combination swat/grab. After this happened I noticed my right arm was a bit more relaxed, and perhaps a bit more disconnected. I could cause a certain feeling of lightness or disconnectedness there. I didn't try to move though, as the apparent projection still seemed very partial.
After this occurrence I was glad I had something happen so I can lie down and if I fall asleep something happened already. I lie down and soon fell asleep while haphazardly visualizing looking at and moving my hands and arms in various ways.
** The apparently nonphysical arm did feel rather insubstantial
** This could be a borderline experience- was that arm really a nonphysical arm, or a misfired sense of body awareness? It seemed somewhat like what some skeptics describe as some mishap occurring sometimes with the body's motor senses and such. Yet it was an apparent movement of a limb that wasn't my physical arm. I'll count it, at least for now

[Then]

Hey man. Very cool...

I had a similar experience several times. The longest involved several minutes of time. Apparently I was (spontaneously) going out-of-body and into the future and seeing what was happening, and thus when the future date came it was familiar and just as I observed it.

One time I actually observed the future from the perspective of my physical body. Years before I would see this setting over and over, as if I was in my physical body but unable to control it- just looking through its eyes.

Years later I was actually in this room that I'd moved to unexpectedly, and recalled the experience. I was looking around erratically in my 'vision/future OBE perception through my body's eyes' for a moment. I wondered why in my 'vision' I started looking around like that. Well, in the actual occurrence I thought, "This is it! This is what I saw!" Then I started looking around frantically taking it all in. Then I realized, "Hey! That's why I was looking around like that. I recognized (which I just had done in the actual occurrence in physical life) at that point this is what I saw all that time ago." And thus, my future traveling OBE self from the past observed that my future self was suddenly looking around erratically.

Very cool. Thanks for sharing..

About to go practice now. I'll keep you in mind. If I succeed I'll come back and post it...

Hey.

I can give you a suggestion. I suggest that you have her get some books by Sanaya Roman and Duane Packer. Perhaps for her the book Living with Joy would be best. Would be a great gift to cheer her up, as well as the information therein.

Then you can get for her A Course in Miracles, another and more powerful (but much more advanced) great book for happiness!!

I get all of the above things as well when meditating. But that's it.

Hey Draege.

I'll show you. You're right there I'm sure. Give me a few days (or perhaps just one.) I'll continue the experiment.

^^ thats what I want to do. So all you have to do, is just basiclly wake youre dream body up, and your having a lucid dream? If thats it, im gonan try that tonight, and then try to go astral.

Yep. It's that simple. Unconsciously dreaming, dream... Aware that you're dreaming, lucid dream..

Tip: If you spend a lot of time during the day questioning yourself if you are dreaming or not (when dreaming and not lucid you don't know you're dreaming:exclamation:), you may happen to be dreaming and out of habit ask yourself if you are dreaming, and find that you are. Then you're lucid.

If I had a good journal entry of using a lucid dream to project I'd post it. I'll gather another experience and post it for you. See if you can get one too, and we'll share our progress and findings. Ok?

Hey Draege..

I'm having success with the projection into sleep effort. Check it out:

* * *

11/7/05 – Success – First is a copy of the beginning of the experience, which was a success at getting imagery, the ending of my (formal) experiments into getting imagery:

* * *
11/7/05 – Success – I started practice at about 5:40 PM. I had just had a success less than thirty minutes previous with reaching theta via sitting and doing 4:2 ratio rhythmic breathing, with relaxing and sitting in stillness. I decided to go back to practice to continue to unwind, and further get successes. It helped to think of working with and to help a projection friend at the forums.  
The practice went basically the same as the previous. I sat and inhaled 4, held 2, exhaled 4, and held empty 2. I paid more attention to the feel of energy this time and it wasn't really a tingling or a pins and needles. It was more like a very light but intimate full body rush of light energy. It was different, yet familiar. I'd never really paid so much attention to it before I guess.
I didn't get any imagery sitting down, and several times through to quit the session but this time I decided to keep going to see what would happen with the energy. It felt well, a kind of teasing well. It wasn't mind-blowing, but something was happening, and I knew it was healing so kept with it. I thought a bit of my life and happenings.
I decided after an indeterminate amount of time to lie down and see if either imagery would come, or I could get OBE into sleep as one of the threads at the forum and one of the members and I discussed, or if I could both get some imagery and get OBE going into sleep. I lay on my front; head turned to the side, and relaxed. I allowed my torso to rest on my ribcage and relaxed and released. I may have allowed or rather encouraged the energy to continue.
Shortly some imagery came. It was like... it just suddenly came. It was stronger. It is usual for a successive practice session to produce more progress than the proceeding practice session. There were signs there, and they were vivid enough for me to read. Just different signs were passing before me, as if dozens of signs were just floating around, and as they crossed before and behind each other I was able to reach whichever one was at the forefront at the moment.
Though I could clearly read each sign and clearly make them out, I didn't or perhaps couldn't like clearly remembering what the signs said. I didn't try though. It's similar to for instance when we read something, and then close the book, and then think, "What did I just read". Though I may not have consciously tried to memorize it, and though I wouldn't at the moment exactly clearly recall what it was, I know that if you try to recall it, the vague impression at the forefront is what it is. I've tested this several times and it works. It was an experience like this, but what it said was just a nudge further beyond the forefront impression being there to grasp.  
One sign I recall as being a bit odd, as it was a sort of maroon street sign with beige or gold-like writing. I clearly read several signs, and then I noticed, or was surprised by, a sense of loss of gravity. I didn't fully displace, but there was definitely some kind of disconnection from the physical, with brief sensations of limb movement, and several losses of gravity/floating/falling back type sensation experiences. I'll detail in my 'Into Sleep' OBE experiment journal...

* * *

Here goes the rest: I was watching the imagery, and then suddenly it felt like I was slightly falling backwards, or that gravity released and I was suddenly floating in place. This sensation would last just a moment or two, and then I'd be aware of lying down and my body again, and feeling myself on the floor/blanket lying down, and feeling and hearing my heartbeat and breathing as I was getting slightly excited that something was happening.
I decided to continue practicing and started to change up what I was doing. I decided instead to just continue just what I was doing, which was lying down still and relaxing. I continued to relax and let go, and focused on remaining calm, and about three or four times total did I experience this sort of falling back, sort of release from gravity feeling. And then I started to feel sensations of movement, as if my arms were starting to move slightly.
I can't say for sure that I lifted up anywhere when I felt the floating, or loss of gravity. Oh, and the sensation was also a mix of a sense of falling backwards to- a sort of mix of loss of gravity, floating, and falling backwards, sort of mixed into a unique and balanced blend of those three sensations.
I continued with this for a while and thought of moving trying to displace, but I didn't feel like I was fully displaced. I think the moments of this tri-sensation experience increased, so perhaps it started to last a moment and a little bit. I didn't feel though that I was like ready to displace.

** I wonder now if I should have moved, or how disconnected was I really, etcetera.
** I can be patient. I'm sure I'll continue to progress, and I'll thus find out.  
** The imagery meditations are/were very refreshing
** The meditation and experiment/experience was very refreshing!
___

** I forgot something in the journal entry. While still sitting down at the end of my imagery experimentations meditation, I started (imagining) looking at my hands, and imagining moving my hands and arms around, as I would when practicing the OBE into sleep experiment. This was a prelude to my OBE into sleep experiment that I decided to do from this meditation, and also an experiment to see if I could have caused a projection then sitting down. I think it helped.

***********

Are you having any success??

And can anyone, would you give me some input on what I may have done different that could have caused a full OBE??

[4-2 to Imagery Experiment]

Hey Agntneo..

I'll post the whole of the formal experimentation I did on imagery with you in mind. This should be enough to help you:

4-2 to Imagery Experiment
To help a projector friend at the AP forum and (to) develop more I'll practice and experiment more with the 4-2 meditation for theta (imagery, brain wave state imagery happens in) acquisition.

11/6/05 – Fail – I practiced 4-2 for about 15 minutes, from about 6:15 to 6:30 PM. I reached a state of good relaxation, in which energy started flowing more strongly. I noticed to need to exercise more, represented by the relatively strong beating of my heart, as if my body wants to go running or something. I can feel and hear the stronger beat, and feel the anxiety that is in my system.
I lie down and relax a bit, still feeling the need to exercise.

11/7/05 – Success – I practiced again just now, started at about 5:10 PM and ending just short of 5:25 PM. I sat and did the '4-2' meditation, wanting to relax after getting somewhat mentally vexed searching the web a lot and doing a lot of thinking and intellectualizing. I needed a mental break and meditation was great for it.
I sat and did the 4-2, relaxing, allowing energy and blood to flow. Just after the energy started to increase the imagery started. I felt like little bitty trickles of energy started, like light, very light tingles all throughout my body, and very thin and very small flows. Then I had a brief imagery as if my physical eyes were suddenly opened but the vision was warped, as if some kind of way my vision warped downward. The inner vision was like a warped down vision. I saw I think a forearm. It didn't seem to be my forearm, or that I was looking into this room through closed eyelids, but an imagery that was interest. I made mental note that the imagery started soon after more enhanced energetic activity started.
I continued and another brief imagery of either the same thing or close to it, in exactly the same way happened again. The very light, very minuscule but full-body energy sensations- something like pins and needs is the description- they would come and go. I had this brief occurrence of imagery 3 or 4 times total and then ended there. Total meditation time was about 14 minutes.

11/7/05 – Success – I started practice at about 5:40 PM. I had just had a success less than thirty minutes previous with reaching theta via sitting and doing 4:2 ratio rhythmic breathing, with relaxing and sitting in stillness. I decided to go back to practice to continue to unwind, and further get successes. It helped to think of working with and to help a projection friend at the forums.  
The practice went basically the same as the previous. I sat and inhaled 4, held 2, exhaled 4, and held empty 2. I paid more attention to the feel of energy this time and it wasn't really a tingling or a pins and needles. It was more like a very light but intimate full body rush of light energy. It was different, yet familiar. I'd never really paid so much attention to it before I guess.
I didn't get any imagery sitting down, and several times through to quit the session but this time I decided to keep going to see what would happen with the energy. It felt well, a kind of teasing well. It wasn't mind-blowing, but something was happening, and I knew it was healing so kept with it. I thought a bit of my life and happenings.
I decided after an indeterminate amount of time to lie down and see if either imagery would come, or I could get OBE into sleep as one of the threads at the forum and one of the members and I discussed, or if I could both get some imagery and get OBE going into sleep. I lay on my front; head turned to the side, and relaxed. I allowed my torso to rest on my ribcage and relaxed and released. I may have allowed or rather encouraged the energy to continue.
Shortly some imagery came. It was like... it just suddenly came. It was stronger. It is usual for a successive practice session to produce more progress than the proceeding practice session. There were signs there, and they were vivid enough for me to read. Just different signs were passing before me, as if dozens of signs were just floating around, and as they crossed before and behind each other I was able to reach whichever one was at the forefront at the moment.
Though I could clearly read each sign and clearly make them out, I didn't or perhaps couldn't like clearly remembering what the signs said. I didn't try though. It's similar to for instance when we read something, and then close the book, and then think, "What did I just read". Though I may not have consciously tried to memorize it, and though I wouldn't at the moment exactly clearly recall what it was, I know that if you try to recall it, the vague impression at the forefront is what it is. I've tested this several times and it works. It was an experience like this, but what it said was just a nudge further beyond the forefront impression being there to grasp.  
One sign I recall as being a bit odd, as it was a sort of maroon street sign with beige or gold-like writing. I clearly read several signs, and then I noticed, or was surprised by, a sense of loss of gravity. I didn't fully displace, but there was definitely some kind of disconnection from the physical, with brief sensations of limb movement, and several losses of gravity/floating/falling back type sensation experiences. I'll detail in my 'Into Sleep' OBE experiment journal...

** I'll conclude formally testing the imagery here
** The imagery meditations are/were very refreshing
___

** I forgot something in the journal entry. While still sitting down at the end of my imagery experimentations meditation, I started (imagining) looking at my hands, and imagining moving my hands and arms around, as I would when practicing the OBE into sleep experiment. This was a prelude to my OBE into sleep experiment that I decided to do from this meditation, and also an experiment to see if I could have caused a projection then sitting down. I think it helped.

"He went to the moon"

And apparently he then instantly died. Oh whoops, story ends..

Hey Draege. I'll clarify that part. Apparently when you ascend you raise the frequency of your physical body to the point that the body is as functional and fluid as the nonphysical body. So the understanding imparted is that, though it was his physical body, the vibrations of the physical body were raised to such a point that it was as if he went nonphysically. Here is a quote:

"Slowly over many years - as the thought of becoming my ideal (the wind) became the very life force in the cells of my embodiment - my soul gradually changed the programming in every cellular structure to increase the vibratory rate within them, my desire was that strong. The more peaceful I became with life, the more that emotion carried through my entire physical arrangement until I became lighter and lighter and lighter. People would look at me and say, 'Alas, there is a glow about the master.' There was, for my body was vibrating at a faster rate of speed, going from the speed of matter into the speed of light. That is what emanated a glow from my being.

"In time my body became fainter and fainter by the light of the moon. Then one night I became where the moon was. No longer did I simply travel in thought. I had raised my bodily vibrations into light and had taken my entire embodiment with me. I was gleeful and mirthful, for that which I had done was unheard of. Yet I came back, but only to see if I could do it again. And I did, again and again and again, sixty-three times before my final ascension. It became an expectancy, as breathing is to you."

Please, anyone else? I can use some support and some input on this.

.

It was successful. This is the second time practicing since I started again yesterday. I had several brief stints of imagery, like a slightly warped vision of a clarity as if suddenly opening my eyes, but I wasn't seeing into my room.

* * *


11/7/05 – Success – I practiced again just now, started at about 5:10 PM and ending just short of 5:25 PM. I sat and did the '4-2' meditation, wanting to relax after getting somewhat mentally vexed searching the web a lot and doing a lot of thinking and intellectualizing. I needed a mental break and meditation was great for it.

I sat and did the 4-2, relaxing, allowing energy and blood to flow. Just after the energy started to increase the imagery started. I felt like little bitty trickles of energy started, like light, very light tingles all throughout my body, and very thin and very small flows. Then I had a brief imagery as if my physical eyes were suddenly opened but the vision was warped, as if some kind of way my vision warped downward. The inner vision was like a warped down vision. I saw I think a forearm. It didn't seem to be my forearm, or that I was looking into this room through closed eyelids, but an imagery that was interest. I made mental note that the imagery started soon after more enhanced energetic activity started.

I continued and another brief imagery of either the same thing or close to it, in exactly the same way happened again. The very light, very minuscule but full-body energy sensations- something like pins and needs is the description- they would come and go. I had this brief occurrence of imagery 3 or 4 times total and then ended there. Total meditation time was about 14 minutes.

* * *

Progress?

Hey Agntneo. How is it going so far with your practices of getting imagery?

I've started this practice again. I didn't get any yesterday. I'll go practice again in a bit.

Hey. That's basically it. Congrats.

You can look at your hands in the lucid dream, and then roll to the side and roll out of body from a lucid dream.

Hey.

What about the evidence already presented, such as Robert Monroe's accounts. In one he not only verified what he saw, but caused a bruise from a pinch he gave someone while there. I've talked to a skeptic who has read Robert's work, but still says it's all hallucination or whatever.

I guess getting a card right or something could be more to their liking as what consitutes proof. But if someone just doesn't want to change their views, they can easily surmise that you may be lying. Is it really possible to prove this stuff then? What are the controls in place to alleviate the notion that you may simply be lying that you saw the cards right?

Any suggestions, ideas, assistance are welcome..

What are your ideas for me to project farther, more often, more strongly, etc..

10/10/05 – 114 – I lay and relax. I had awareness of my left arm/elbow as if it was through the floor and through my body. I waved my left nonphysical elbow through the floor and outstretched my right nonphysical arm and waved it around a bit.

10/12/05 – 115 – I went to sleep at 1 AM. I awoke by alarm at 6:30 AM and went back to sleep immediately after I reset the alarm to 11:30 AM. Immediately before the alarm came on I became aware of hazy, hazy perceptions signifying awareness in theta. I put my nonphysical self into spin and spun over and over in place like a log rolling in place on water. After a bit I maneuvered myself into an upright sitting position, consciously aware of my out-of-body state. My vision was extra hazy. My alarm came on moments later and I felt as if I was lying down again.

P.S. At 1 AM I went to sleep focusing on my mouth, chanting mentally stuff like "my mouth/jaw stays/remains relaxed during sleep" while relaxing my face/jaw (in an attempt to offset grinding my teeth) – I slept on my stomach to start

10/30/05 – 116 – I had several days' sleep deficit working overtime at work. I lay for sleep and gave up everything but forgiveness. I forgave my physical body for being sleepy and needing sleep, etc. I had many vivid dreams, became lucid, and decided to fly and explore for just a moment. I then looked at my hands and rolled to the side in an attempt to roll out of body. I'm not sure how far distant I got from my physical body as I went straight back to sleep. I may not have fully displaced but I got some kind of conscious separation.

(In a previous but recent experience- the first time I gave up everything including OBE for God- that night I had an easy OBE. It seems it wasn't long after falling asleep- if I completely fell asleep. If I recall I log rolled in place before displacing.)

[our]

Hey all. First of all, I know this post may be a bit long but I'm sure it's worth it. Please be sure to read it completely, and to check back onto this thread, for my further comments/questions and those of others, and to share your wealth of thoughts and ideas. I'd love your responses, advice, answers, collaborations, and info.

I'm in the process of reading through all of the posts here that mention ascension, using search. What I've noticed that I find pertinent is that in the book The White Book, by Ramtha as channeled by author JZ Knight, Ramtha apparently uses very frequent OBE to ascend. He first projected during meditation. He was contemplating the wind, wanting to be free like the wind, and spontaneously went out-of-body. Then after two years of intense desire, effort, and determination he learned to go out-of-body in conjunction with sleep (!), to the point of mastery, so that he was able to literally project at will- like from being in-body now, then the next moment out-of-body wherever he wanted to be, with no preparation. Then his body started to glow after more and more of this. His body was becoming lighter. His vibrations were increasing. And then finally he willed himself somewhere, and instead of leaving his body and going there he went physical body and all. He went to the moon. Then he was able to do this repeatedly around 60 times, going back and forth to the moon making sure he had it right and established. Thus he was successfully ascended. He went to the people of his society and broke the news down to them, levitated into the air before them to prove it, and then he took his physical body into the higher dimensions for like 35,000 years of earth years, coming back now to channel through Knight.

I read the account of his ascension several times, and the mechanics of it seem convincing to me. We've for instance experienced the vibrations and quickening of energy as a part of OBE. And others and myself have experienced healing as a result of the energies of trance and OBE or OBE related states.

What are your thoughts on this? What are your thoughts on Ramtha/JZ Knight?? Reading the above condensation of his apparent ascension, does it seem plausible to you? Does (frequent) OBE lead to ascension? Do you think it could? Please share your thoughts, based on the above, on your own experiences or studies, either/or/etcetera.

And what about the other people mentioning or teaching ascension? We have Bob Frissell, and Joshua David Stone, and Drunvalo Melchizedek, and others- even JZ Knight herself. Why aren't they levitating and disappearing like Ramtha apparently did, or like the skill of ascension and such should allow you (and thus them) to do?? For instance, most people who write about learning OBE write from some degree of experience, and have journals in their books or online to show for themselves, etc. Why have I or we not seen or heard of anyone from today's world who teach ascension having any observable, reportable, or repeatable ascension-type experiences?? (If you have, please inform us?!)

People reading the websites or the books of OBE writers and using their techniques have OBEs or OBE-type experiences (depending on whether you believe OBE is real or not). But what teachers of ascension are demonstrating ascension-type skills, abilities, ways of doing things, or powers? Why aren't they demonstrating these things? Or how many of their students are demonstrating these things, or able to do these things?

I'll never forget when I met this guy online who within the first 5 minutes of meeting him through chat, he rambles on about how he can teleport and do this and that. He did this with me, and with everyone I ever introduced him to or saw him introduced to. And all through chat he goes on about how he can teleport and do this and that and this and that. Then one day I was like, "Well, teleport to me right now." All of a sudden it's like some, "No, I can't do that," as if suddenly there's some sanctity air about him, as if suddenly then he's not into making teleportation into some parlor trick, or into having to prove himself or something that that. Doh!! Then why do you ramble on and on about how you can do it then?? If such a respect or sanctity tip is his thing, he wouldn't be rambling on about it all the time- unless he only wants someone to believe he can do it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not putting they guy down. He's nice and cool. And I am very personally familiar with how we try to make ourselves out to have more abilities than we actually do, seeking attention, or acceptance, or love, and so forth. I'm not trying to put him down. The point is, since they are all in effect rambling on about it and/or 'teaching' it, how or why cannot they do it or demonstrate it?? If they can ramble on it and/or teach it, why can't they demonstrate it? We even take a car out for a test drive, or squeeze and inspect our fruits and vegetables before buying them. Why should we have to take these things on faith or belief when they are rambling on about them or 'teaching' them? In science class they have experiments to test or demonstrate properties or laws of things, right?

Ramtha supposedly levitating before his people to show them would be akin to Drunvalo Melchizedek or Joshua Stone levitating before their seminar crowd, or on the corner of their neighborhood. I can't single out Frissell in this matter. He doesn't seem to claim to do it, but just shares ideas. Drunvalo claims to be or is billed to be some 10th or so dimension master reincarnate or something.

And why do so many (ok, as far as I can tell ALL), of these ascension-promoting, not-attached-to-this-world, immortalist, 'humanitarian' people charge so much money (or any money at all) for their stuff? JZ Knight, Drunvalo, Orr.. Why don't they share their information freely and for free, make their physical body disappear so they don't need to worry about food and stuff, and just appear to teach a class or something when desired or necessary, like Gary Renard's ascended masters do?? (More on this in a bit.) How can they teach us ascension when they themselves are in the rat race like us? But instead of working a 9-5 they get our money through books and seminars and stuff.

One of my interests in ascension is in part because frankly I intend to be through with the 'littleness' of regular life, having to walk or drive or plane everywhere for instance, having to succumb to sleep losing your conscious awareness and wasting time in unconsciousness or partial consciousness (that is if you haven't reached 24/7 awareness). I would feel so much freer were I able to disappear at will and not have to work a 9-5 anymore, or eat anymore, or have to worry about caring for my physical body, and all of the other encumbrances of having a physical body in the 'normal' way, like having to protect it from heat and cold and such. It's so tedious. BUT...

I'd like to make clear that I don't see ascension as the end to all, for I'm learning through The Disappearance of the Universe and A Course in Miracles that this is all a dream or illusion, and nothing here, no philosophy or ability, can give freedom from here (this world, or universe, etc.), being a part of the overall system itself. They ascended beyond the universe itself, and beyond all form.

The guy who wrote The Disappearance of the Universe met two ascended masters, who could appear and disappear at will, and even take him with them. Their skill as he describes it met or surpasses that as described of Ramtha, but they were described as also absolutely free of the cycle of birth and death, and very literally and truly recognized all of this world and universe as a dream. They had to forgive the world, and basically give up their individuality to do it, which I'm sure scares at least most of us. They don't term it as a loss or sacrifice though, but that this  isn't our true identity and all of this isn't real to begin with.

Anyone here into The Disappearance of the Universe (DU), and/or A Course in Miracles (ACIM)?? What are your thoughts on ascension, and OBE in relation to ascension, and how that could help/hinder graduation through the Course??

I believe reaching ascension as per Ramtha could allow more time of the same personality to master ACIM, rather than being reincarnated again and again. The ascended masters in DU had like 20 lifetimes before they ascended as per the ACIM methodology. I figure that the first years of an incarnation is getting back into the swing of where you were or are, and if you didn't have to waste the first years of your life re-finding 'the path' or your relative place on it, it would be easier and faster. Or perhaps you never really leave the path but are guided subconsciously by what you learned before?? Again, your thoughts please?

And Hephaestus..
You mentioned in one of the posts I found that mention ascension:

Any book that mentions ascension i'm willing to give a read, my ultimate aim of life is to ascend beyond the boundaries of the universe itself.

This would confirm that our intentions are very closely aligned. I would like to communicate with you more closely. Perhaps we can help each other advance more rapidly. What do you think? If you still pass through, please reply..

I was a bit afraid at first to open this topic, for several reasons, for one thinking that maybe stuff like ascension aren't supposed to be spoken of commonly or you might in some way ruin or impede your 'chances' at it. It even brought up lingering (though steadily diminishing) shadow [Stuart Wilde - http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/wilde-shadow.ram ] elitist thoughts of wanting to be better than or above others and not wanting to ruin my chances to be. (If everyone's special, then who's special?) Forgive me. I guess that's so silly of me. At one point OBE was considered some elitist arcane unspeakable thing, only for the 'elite' and 'initiated' and taking days of preparation and all kinds of 'only facing north on the full moon you must be a member of my secret sect or be my devout devotee and worship me' kind of stuff. Now we recognize that OBE is a natural phenomenon everyone experiences, if only unconsciously as a part of sleep. And it's easily recognizable that we can all progress faster through cross-validation, cross-research, and collaboration- and we can produce consensual validation- i.e. if you think I'm deluding myself, please in detail let me know!! Seeing and reading others' posts and sharing on ascension helped open me up and loosen up my fears/defenses.

Ok. This is it for now. I'm not through reading the archived posts mentioning ascension, and I'm (as we all are) still learning. I'll revisit this thread in the future to continue to share and collaborate, and to respond and interact further. Please keep your eyes out for this thread and share all you can. Now and in the future I welcome and encourage your thoughts, input, and ideas on these matters. And if you have or intend to progress with any of the above, please post me/us and keep me/us posted on your progress, and with what is helping you the most.

Thank you.
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Has anyone ever thought of projecting to The Monroe Institute (TMI) and interacting with the people in the program? Has anyone every done this?

Hey.

My input is to continue on and you'll be able to discern the difference better after you have more experiences of all the different types of experiences. Perhaps only you can know the difference in this situation.

You can remember OBEs after the fact and the memory be hazy. I'm sure we've all been very sleepy (or drunk) and hazily walked to the bedroom or wherever, and thought we dreamed it but actually woke up in the bedroom or wherever we walked to. And that was a physical occurence! And we can false awakening a mock OBE too. I'm sure you'll discover the answer soon.

Hey...

I suggest that you relax and move, and you should successfully be OBE.

I've read of others taking deep breaths to cause themselves to go OBE or imagining themselves movnig away to complete OBE from this point. I can personally recommend you relax and move, such as rolling over to the side. It may feel very physical.

Hey Draege..

Last night I experimented with focusing on imagining looking at my hands as I went to sleep, trying to cause projection or get into a projection-ready state on my way into sleep. I fell asleep, but I think this is promising. Perhaps you can try this also and we can compare.

Interesting. Thank you for sharing and clarifying projector friend Draege. This helps much.

Perhaps I need to get over my desire to 'control'. I hate the idea of having to be at the whim of conditions, know what I mean? I'd like to be able to get out when I want, rather than having to sort of be slave to certain patterns and conditions.

Perhaps using conditions is a start to at-will ability.