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Hi everyone,

I had a brief discussion with some of you about this on an unrelated thread a while back, but I'm curious to hear more of people's opinions.

I work with Schizophrenics, and I'm always at a loss as to how to differentiate the diffence between delusion and extra-sensory/astral-type perception. I think it's dreadfully important not to romanticise the illness, but since I've been reading about OBE etc, it's starting to strike me how thin the line is.

For example, I was projecting the other night, and I appeared to run into one of the residents at my work, who was standing with what seemed to be a guide (though I didn't speak with him/her or get a good look.) This particular guy has told me on a number of occasions how he has been "visited" by his mother, who died a year ago. A few of the others have described projection type experiences to me as well, saying things like: "On the weekend I came out of my body and I heard a buzzing sound." And this is unprompted, I promise. It does seem like some of the things they experience are genuine "visions",  rather than being symptomatic of their illness.

I understand that the system we have now is different to other cultures, where people we would now call "crazy" became shamans and the like.  I guess that idea is what I'm driving at. But here's the thing - some of their experiences ARE delusions...They are not Elvis Presley, or the president of the Hell's Angels; the Mafia has not taken a hit out on them. Know what I mean?

Are these "dreams"?  Manifestations of fears or fantasies that have found their way into the physical world?

And... If I was trapped at the other end of the system, would they sedate me for hearing voices before I am about to go to sleep...?

(sorrry. just needed a rant, i think...)

Meg


"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi everyone,

For several weeks, I have been almost constantlly putting up with energy in my right little finger (I am left-handed) It's driving me nuts, buzzing away morning noon and night! Anyone got any ideas about what this might mean? I thought perhaps it might have some meaning from an acupuncture perspective or something...

I have been working with NEW the last couple of weeks, but it started before that.

Thanks,
Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi everyone,

Up till now, I've been projecting by doing some basic relaxation etc before going to sleep. More often than not, I will wake up about 90 mins later in the vibrational state and will be able to project from there. Recall has been a serious problem , and I have been trying lately to project completely consciously. The problem is that every time I let the vibrations build too high, I get the most terrible sense of motion sickness. I honestly cannot stand it - the rocking, buzzing, ringing, it makes me feel physically ill. It seems to be one thing simply waking up with them going full bore, and another thing entirely to feel them building up.

Anyone got any tips that might make it a little bit less of a stress?

Thanks,
Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Just putting the question out there... I'd love to hear people's stories about what sparked their interest in AP.    

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi everyone,

I've never been one for organised religions, but I've always been fascinated by the ritual surrounding them and admire the sense of community attached to being involved in one. I wonder if anyone has had any experience with spiritualist churches, or any opinions about them.

I'm curious.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi everyone,

It's an action-packed week I'm having... Please bear with long post.

I made contact with my guide in the astral last night. Soon after I went to sleep, I realized I was dreaming and became lucid. I found myself in paralysis, and made my exit from there. I tried to remain as still as possible - frequently I find myself shooting uncontrollably into the stratosphere! - and was rolling like jelly on the floor calling "Sereerer" when she showed up.

At that point my memories become a bit jumbled. I remember that we were "flying" and she took me through some kind of house or building by the ocean, with two sets of glass doors that opened out as if onto two different balconies, one following the other. We paused there, and I was able to look at her properly. She appeared young, around 20 maybe.. I commented on this and she looked at me as if to say "I'm a hell of a lot older than I look!"  She was very tall and graceful with long honey-red hair. A kind of perpetual half-smile. Stately. Great cheekbones.

I snapped back to body a couple of times, and each time she was with me after a few moments (catching my hands as I blasted up as usual) and escorting me through the same place. I remember catching myself in the glass doors and she laughed. From there - outside the doors - we went to a few different places, but I've lost memory of all but one. I remember sitting at the base of a big grassy slope with her, talking.. It looked like some kind of ranch in the American mid-west. I was receiving information in flashes about where we were, but it's gone now.

She did tell me what her real name is - and what it means - but it disappeared into the very edge of my memory almost immediately. After I woke, I used the automatic writing to ask her again, and she was kind enough to bring it back into my consciousness. Her name is Simian, and it is a word for "the ....... (don't know this word) that closes the gates of the Pantheon after justice has been served." I'm not entirely sure what that means yet, but she said exactly the same thing both in the astral and on paper.  She tells me "Sereerer" is a word from a "forgotten language" meaning "Messenger".

Anyway folks...another guide story. Thanks for listening.

Meg



"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi everyone,

Not entirely sure where to post this topic, kind of relates to all subjects! I have been using Automatic Writing to try to contact my guide for help during astral projection, and after several false starts which freaked me a bit (one entity claiming to be my dead grandfather, another - or same one- telling me to leave my husband) I believe I may have gotten in contact with one of my true guides. I have written details on the OBE experiences forum under "found guide thru auto writing" but the general gist is that this entity has been giving me very sound advice, and appears very fun and loving. She even wrote down a lovely spell/ prayer/ incantation to protect me from negs if I decide to use automatic writing to receive poetry and stories. I would appreciate it if anyone would have a look at my post there and give me some feedback on this issue. I have had trouble with negs in the past in my projecting, and I don't really want to go through all that again!

Thanks,
Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi Guys,

As some of you might have read on my post under Jeff's "Guide" topic last week, I've been experimenting with Automatic Writing lately. I started to find that I don't even need to be in trance state - it's simply a matter of holding the pen lightly between my thumb and forefinger, lifting my arm off the table so I have no control, and simply letting the words form themselves.

I'm happy to say that I've made contact with my guide - and this time I'm sure! Her name is "Sereerer" (wierd huh) and she was last incarnated on earth in the 1880's in Melbourne. (I queried this - I live there - and she responded: "Miserable Melbourne. I assure you, I'm certain") She seems a lot of fun, and has a very cheeky sense of humour. She tells me we will meet soon in the Astral.

Anyway, what I really wanted to share with you all is a "conversation" we had today in regard to my contacting other entities to speak poetry and stories through me. It assured me that she is definately one of my guides and she has my highest good in mind. This is copied straight out of my notebook...

Meg: Sereerer, is it possible for me to receive poetry in this way?

Sereerer: Yes, but heed my warnings.

Meg: Will you give me these warnings?

Sereerer: Yes. My name is not Sereerer, but Satan.

(I freaked out then!)

Sereerer continues: Not meant to scare you Meg, it's meant to help you. I'm just making a point.

Meg:Thank you! Point well taken! Does this mean I'm not ready yet?

Sereerer: No

Meg: What can I do to make receiving poetry safe for me?

Sereerer: Read it over and over when you want to. Strict learning seems best for you, Meg.

Meg: Read what?

Sereerer: Learn these words.... Assist my highest good, my nicest friends. Free me to create in your name the language never needed in your lifetime. Rescue me from those who wish harm on me. Let only exemplary examples of literature flow form my hand. Feel me finding my flowing, sender. Illustrate your talent. Thank you my friends.

Meg: Thank you, Sereerer. Anything else?

Sereerer: Yes. Light a candle in the name of Sereerer to protect you.

Meg: What particular words should I say when I light the candle?

Sereerer: No matter about what you say.

Meg: thank you. Anything else I need to know?

Sereerer: No. Except that we are with you.    Sereerer.


All of this appeared in my notebook in two different sets of handwriting. I'm not scared, but I am feeling a little overwhelmed by it all. Anyone got any words of advice as to where I ought to take things from here? Any comments? Anything?!

Thanks, lovely people.

Meg










"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I know it's probably been done to death, but I wondered what everyone thinks about the possibility of entering the astral world via lucid dreaming techniques.

You see, I have a RIDICULOUS amount of various recurring dreams (every night, pretty much), and I just wondered whether I could utilise this by trying to become lucid when I recognise them. This happened to me recently, and the sensations were exactly as I've felt during more traditional, spontaneous OBE's - I felt my body in my bed, and had the difficulty waking/coming back in that I do when I project spontaneously etc.

I just wonder if this could be a "way in" for me, a technique that might give me more luck with my struggle to consciously project?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi everyone,  had an interesting experience a couple of days ago.... shed more light on the "astral sex' topic I posted last week...

I was having an afternoon nap, and I became lucid mid-dream, and did the usual "fly around the backyard" thing before deciding that I may as well try for a bit of a shag. So I lay back with my usual "bring it on" kind of attitiude, and that was settled.

Anyway, for some reason I decided to actually come out of my world of pure selfish pleasure and actually have a look at what was going on... I've never done that before; never really thought about what or who might be at the giving end of my encounters...(I don't think it is actually possible to get more base than that!)...

Anyway, so there was this man there (surprised?).. He was kind of effeminate; my first impulse was actually to think that he was some kind of hermaphrodite, with long grey-blonde hair. I tried to get a sense of him. He didn't seem harmful, but there was a strange kind of "Otherness" about him, as if he was an outcast or something.

I said to him:
"Has it been you all along?"

He said:
"Yes, mostly. But it's been a while."

At which point I freaked out a bit, and struggled my way through the usual paralysis until I woke up.

Firstly, I do not like the thought that I have unintentionally (?) been involving myself in an all-out astral relationship. Secondly, here in the real world I am a married woman,  and my husband was moderately upset to hear about this - and I don't blame him.


Anyway, my real question to you all is: This is the only entity I have had actual dialogue with. Do you think I should make contact with him again and see if he can help me out in other ways, or do you think I am better off having a look around for someone with a more noble interest in me?


Meg x

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Ok folks... let's be honest... Who has had sexual expriences during OBE's? I know I've had plenty, what I want to know is... Is this a dangerous thing?

Hi folks,  I'm new at this... only just coming to terms with the fact that these wierd "dreams" I've been having since i was 16 are OBEs!.. Anyway, almost all of my experiences had left me in a sheer panic due to paralysis etc. For a while I managed to get over this and explore some pretty exciting places... but then i started encountering some horrible scary demon-thing, and haven't been able to get past that stage again. Its just too scary. I hear a lot of talk about guides... what exactly are these and how oh how can I find mine?! I really want to try and explore this properly...

Maybe we need different guides at different times. One of my guides was very formal.. virtually giving me text book lessons on OBE (not that I could remember them in their entirety afterwards, but thats another story) In fact, he got pretty frustrated with me about my early astral pursuits, such as riding rollercoasters, bonking etc.

Meg xx

Gandalf -

Stuff has been pretty quiet for me the last year or so, astrally speaking... I went back to uni to build on my interesting but impractical bachelor of arts with a teaching qualification and its pretty much absorbed me for the last year.

Mostly this year my projecting has been just a bit of flying over the fields near my house and trying to visit my brother and my step-kids who live far away (with partial success ie. getting to their dark bedrooms and fumbling around in confusion for a few minutes) There's been a few fear manifestations of scary entities but I did have one really good guide experience too.

But its nice to have time to be checking out the forums again and getting reinspired.

Meg xx

Know what? I really like the idea that when we create something with our imagination, we are bringing it into existance in another place. Like everything we think, hope, dream, remember, create is caught in the giant "astral net" to exist forever.

Re: astral lovers. I had one once - which was fine until I realised that yes, astral sex does count as infidelity to ones partner, and tried to get rid of him. Ever tried to dump someone in the astral? haha - not easy!

Meg x

Hi GhostGirly,

I don't know if this helps.. but when i first started realising that all my wierd experiences from adolescence onwards were projections and first got involved with this forum, I found that my projections increased in frequency and intensity. For about six months it was overwhelming, happening several times a night almost every night - taking me on a massive learning curve which was amazing but I wouldnt want it to be like that all the time. That was about 18 months ago. I think these things work in cycles (unless you can project consciously) - maybe we are just particularly sensitive at particular times in our lives. You mention youre under stress at the moment - my flurries of astral activity have always corresponded with major life events ie. breaking up with my high school boyfriend, finishing uni and starting work, getting married.  Anyway, so now i just get the occasional projection - enough to keep me amused but not consume me, if you know what I mean.


With the fear stuff, and feeling entities in your room, I've found what works best is to confront them. Like for example, once there was some kind of entity standing by my bed and scaring the bejesus out of me... I just looked directly at it and said something to the effect of "Yeah, good one...I'm not scared of you..Havent you got anything better to do with your time?" and refused to back down. Stared right at it, unflinching. It went away, freeing me to go for a fly in the front paddock.

When i first starting having full-on projections, they were always scary - I never even got out of the house - and i got over my initial fear because one night i just decided to let out this giant ROAR and jumped out of my bedroom window, which immediately led into some beautiful astral landscapes whch i hadnt known existed till that point. Generally such a confrontation keeps them away for a period of weeks or months, then if i get a bit scared again, some scary entity shows up and keeps scaring me out of my spontaneous projecting until I get the courage to tell it to nick off again.

Eveyrone always says "Don't be scared", but I know its not easy to get over - you know it in your rational mind, but its different when youre out there. Trying to raise my vibrations didn't help me that much due to the shred of doubt that always crept in. For me, the giant symbolic "I am not afraid" confrontations have really helped me over the hurdle. Like grinning and bearing it: "Well, here goes nothing!"

Good luck with everything. I reckon being on the forum is the best thing for anyone trying to deal with this stuff. I've learned so much from everyone here.

Meg x

Hi everyone,

I have also experienced astral rape. In fact, the experience has frightened me off projecting for the last several months.

The first time it happened was about three years ago, before I really started exploring the idea OBEs. In those days my projections were spontaneous and involuntary, and I didn't know what they were. It was like being attacked in real life, only I could feel the energy of the entity and that is what frightened me the most - it was filled with hate and the love of power, absolutely terrifying. I remember screaming hysterically and the great struggle to escape.

More recently, a few months back,  my experiences were with a not-so-scary entity who must have taken a liking to me and kept harassing me every time i went out of body. (An astral stalker?!) He kept on "dressing up" as my husband to try and trick me into bonking him. Like, I would wake up in the vibrational state, begin to exit, and he would be there lying in bed with me, trying to get it on. He was very persistent. I remember on one occasion, I made repeated exits and every time I came out I would try a different tactic on him, to the point where I was insulting his "manhood", saying "Why on earth would I want to be with you? Youre disgusting" etc!

I'm making a joke now, but it was actually quite distressing, and I haven't projected for months. After that, every time I encountered any entity at all I would freak out. It got to the point (which is the same point I was at after the first incident I mentioned, before I learned that these strange experiences were OBEs) where I would immediately panic if i woke up in the vibrational state. And then it stopped happening altogether.

Astral rape is traumatic. It lives in memory in quite a real way.

Meg x

After that

Dear Leyla,

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience.

It's a horrible thing to have to keep something so significant to yourself. I know how you feel. The rare times I've shared my experiences, I've been gripped by an overwhelming, deep fear (of what??) and a sharp sense of regret for being so careless about "letting it slip out". I find myself appraising people: "How would they react if I told them?" It isn't a nice way to live.

It would be lovely to be one of those peole who doesn't care what anyone else thinks. But I suppose we have to live in the Real World too, and in that place OBEs need to be a dirty secret. I try to romanticise it as "my secret inner world". Sometimes I feel I could explode with the desire to talk about it with real live people more often.

I sympathise with your "Astral Block" - it's been a good six months since I had a projection.  I miss it so much. I miss the sense of possibility. I miss feeling involved with the community here, and the feeling of discovery and exploration. I miss the contact with my guide, who I was just getting to know.

Yes, the astral world is always there. Yes, we just need to live in the "right" way. Yes, we need to find ways of overcoming the demons that hold us back.

But it isn't that simple. We can know all we like with our heads and our intellect, but it doesn't change the unconscious, the parts of us that we can't even consciously access. I want to believe there are ways of healing these things, but part of me sometimes wonders. Does anyone know the myth of Chiron, with his wound that never healed? I feel as though everything continues to exist inside us always, leaving imprints on the underside of our skin.. all our fears and hurts and joys, never truly going away.  Just sleeping in the psyche.

It's beautiful in a way.
*
POLAROIDS - A poem by me, and copyright

It's the pictures of faces that stay.
On noisy days they flash again
like polaroids behind my eyes,
like childish ghosts, they flutter
spiteful in my blood
at all this disciplined forgetting.

Before, younger and more still,
I pressed names and dates
to their celluloid smiles,
mapped their imprints on my iris.
Things made sense,
I built up meaning,
patient and with purpose.

These pictures of faces,
these old processions
grow tangled now.
No fate, just fingertips
that bruise me from the inside out,
and mark with fondness or fury
the places I was loved.

*
So Leyla, maybe things cant ever truly be resolved? Maybe all you can do is accept them, and let them sleep.

Meg x

PJ: Congratulations on your first few Astral experiences!

I have also had OBEs remarkably similar to the one you describe; not a lot of fun. I usually project by "waking up" in paralysis after a dream (often a nightmare - not a good place to start!), and project  from there. If I am not on-the-ball, I forget to project and revert to my former "panic and try to move" thing, and sometimes at this point I will think my husband is trying to wake me, but it turns out to be some kind of sexual predator.

I don't doubt that this is a result of my fear. The question is whether the situation is generated by my imagination and subconscious (like a prop), or whether I am attracted to ACTUAL entities and places because of my issues, whatever they may be.

Either way, the same internal issues need to be dealt with. Some ideas: I think of the predator as being the part of your psyche that wants to destroy you. What part of you is being preyed apon? What part of you is the predator? -  Even if the predator is a real astral entity, it is still fulfilling some kind of "need" in you, or you wouldn't be attracting it - Why is it choosing the symbol of your sexuality? What part of you does your sexuality represent?

Hope this is useful; It's been useful for ME to think about these things!

Meg xx

Thanks for your feedback, Ash. Productive input always appreciated.

A-ha, Faceless- therein lies the challenge! How can you not rely (to some extent) on the thing that made you discover projecting?

As I said, I have had a fair bit of success in the past, but ultimately it keeps coming back to the old issues. I have tried lots of things, with varying degrees of success: projecting from other (unscary) recurring dreams; the finger technique, traditional OBE (a pipe-dream at this stage!) and I do wake up in the vibrational state sans nightmare from time to time as well as waking up already in the astral.

I'm looking for ideas as to HOW I could bring about some more substantial changes. It just really seems like an odd way for a person to have started projecting...

Meg x

Makaveli,

Don't get too stressed, I think your subconscious (or whatever it is thats controlling all this stuff!) will know when you've had more than you can handle.

I went through a time last year when my OBE learning curve went through the roof for several months. It was sooo intense, almost too much to handle. The last few months things have eased off. Its given me a chance to assess what I've learned and start making sense of all the implications that has on my life.

For now just go with it.

Meg x

Hi guys, lets not fight.

In the physical world, I am a fairly easily distracted non-ghost-seer (and that's so not a word), but when I am projecting, I am completely open and can feel energies and entities as if they were solid as a brick wall. (I'd love to get to the point of being able to be that aware in the physical world. On call anyway...)

Anyway, the point I am hopelessly trying to get to is that, in my experience (and my experience with negs in the astral is many- see my topic just posted), you know a neg when you meet one. Sure, they disguise themselves; I even had one that habitually diguised himself as my husband - UGH - but you just have to "reach in" to them to tell the difference.

And how do you define a neg anyway? I've met one or two that were TRULY evil (and #$% scary), but the majority of "negative" entities are just harmless doofuses with intentions that aren't 100% honourable for one reason or another. I've met a few who were just outcasts. I don't think these can really do you any harm; theyre not powerful enough.

Just like the physical world, it takes all types in the afterlife. Its not up to us to judge their intentions. We can only speculate about what they might be.

Meg x

Hi everyone,

I had my first experience of Phasing the other day, and it all happened pretty much as described here. The imagination factor is an interesting one - Although I had no real intent, while I was in the 3D blackness I had a vague thought of playing in the park as a child, and a moment later I found myself riding on a swing, leaning back and looking up at the sky, and feeling the up and down movement.

Altogether, I've found traditional OBEs a very frustrating and confusing experience (trouble with movement, vision, memory etc), so I'm really looking forward to exploring Phasing.

Which (one) book of Monroe's would you guys recommend for beginning techniques? I am a poor student teacher and can't afford fancy paraphernalia...

Ta,
Meg

Well, I'm not!! I am simply trying to be light-hearted about it.

If you want a back story, do a search for my thread a few months ago "Sex in the Astral" (or something to that effect.) on this forum.

As anyone will tell you, emotion manifests itself fairly quickly in the astral, and I suppose this is just one of the ways it happens with me. I know I'm not the only one here who has received unwanted sexual attention! (Sorry if I sound a bit defensive)

Patty - who knows, maybe you're right? I know I certainly need to develop more traditionally "masculine" approaches to OBE. A bit of distance, logic and focus would do me some good, no doubt. Thanks for your input everyone.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson