Messages

There are a few differences between LDs and reality. Firstly, as in my previous post, reality has an underlying consistency and rule set for all. Secondly, LDs end and we wake back up in this reality.

Yes true, but my argument was if the mind can create the dream enviroment it may also create this reality. This still holds, maybe the mind just creates a couple of copie consciousnesses to interact and lets them experience a consistent reality?

Yes, your mind created the LD environment, but it is no different to how your mind creates consensus reality.

Yes thats what i mean.

Your sensory organs take in information, this is relayed to your brain, and then your brain constructs what we perceive to be reality.

Thats the theory  But are you sure your brain creates your consiousness and mind as well? there is not a single theory I know that can explain how a machine (e.g brain) can create consiousness.

As the brain interprets reality, everything we ever interact with is brain generated.

I wouldn't count on that. what about people experiencing NDE? they interact with things while braindead. And their interactions seem not so much different then the interactions we know from normal reality.

But just because the brain can generate this, doesn’t mean it creates it. It is created through sensory input from ‘outside’ of us.

The funny thing is we can never be sure if there is something outside of us. frustrating .........

When we LD, the brain simply uses the same pathways used to perceive waking day reality. This is why it feels so real.

But what about NDE? they seem LD-like as well.

Regarding death – we can ‘live on’ without there being any afterlife. Such theories which suggest this look at the subjective nature of time. As ones brain nears death, subjective passage of time could grind to a near halt. So we might live ‘forever’ in a brain created environment (i.e. like an LD) in between the space of life and death. As the brain can seem to generate worlds, how would we know whether we are in a shared astral, or a self generated environment in a dying brain?

lol interesting idea! not really more plausible then the ones i have presented though. When we give the brain that much power we can't be sure of anything at all.

So maybe I dind't state my conclusion very clearly in the last post which would be OBE LD etc are not a mere product of the brain.

[Mind]

hello Listener

I can not answer your question but I would like to share some of my thoughts on it.

Is this all just our mind playing tricks on us?

I just recently had a lucid dream which was very clear. I was there in a strange world but actually this world was not so different to this "objective" reality I'm in right now. In the dream i had a body and my consciousness was "inside" that Body while I was observing the "outer" dream world. Solid objects I could observe that had just as much detail as the physical world. I could feel the water from the river I was swimming in, feel the cold air on my skin, see the beautiful colors of the light reflecting from the surface of the river, yes there was a obvious difference when I really controlled my thoughts I could change the objects, move my hand thru them etc: I'm sure you know all of this, just a regular LD....


my point is this: If we assume that all this was created by my mind. We actually say that the air that touches my skin inside that dream and the skin being touched is just one and the same thing Mind. I mean this is crazy as well!
the conclusion is that my mind can create a point a consciousness and a outside world which that consciousness can explore and which seems separated from the consciousness. It seems that Mind is not equal consciousness.
If my mind can do such a huge trick maybe he can even do a bigger trick called objective reality? I can't think of a good reason why it shouldn't. It seems like a small step from that dream world to a objective world, just  take a way the "control thru thought" aspect and there you go!

So when you die  keep your eyes open I'm sure it won't be end of the story

Sorry of this sounds a bit sarcastic, I don't mean to my english is not so good. Of course it is very sad that you have to die and my compassion is with you, i hope you get my point.

regards Tom

Thx, keep us posted.

[and]

The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.

I am just curious. If you truly believe your Astral Projection is worth anything, or that your out of body experiences are real, then why havent you found Osama? It has probably crossed some of your minds.

So my challenge to you all is to find the locatino of Osama bin Laden, and report it to the FBI to get your reward.  And if you cant do such a 'simple endeavor' then either

1) your astral projection is fake or useless in reality

2) God is protecting Osama bin Laden like many think.

Thanks,

Abraham

It is a combo actually. All AP is fake and God is protecting Osama. Hope this answers your question and helps you to move on.

I started trying out some supplements recently, which has improved my dream recall by 500%, and so far allows me to avoid keeping a dream journal.

May I ask what kind of supplements?

Maybe frank is among us with a different nick name

just a silly idea

Maybe you are Frank!

[YOU]

Tiago, This pseudo science sites you posted are completly shallow.
Proof Religion
I have read the interview you postet, Doesn't sound very wise if you ask me. It makes Budhha, Jesus and other great teacher look like crap, without giving anything more then cheap talk. This guy shall just go ahead and enlight People.

I believe this teaching is for dumb People. You must change your mind yourself. If it were true that somebody can change your mind for you then it would be completly pointless to have a mind in the first place. Life would be pointless and boring. But I don't think this going to happen. Your Mind is much more complex as that somebody can just turn the switch. As long as you have attachement you won't be free no matter what others do.

BTW:It is a very materialistic and western thinking that the mind can be messured thru the brain.

You should really not believe everything you read on the internet. There are no shortcuts YOU have to change yourself

I think it's bovine excrement....

Very fascinating Knightlight! I have posted a link to an article:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22195

Where the author talks about a experience called RPE (Reality Projection Experience) That might be interesting for you (see for example bottom of Page 13 in the mentioned article)

regards Tom

She was not found on a disco.

LoL..... Was just an idea cause you once said that you like to go to party's a lot, so i figured  that you meet girls there.

Good luck anyway Tom

Sorry to hear that Kaz.

I can garantee you that there are honest woman out there i know couple of them which I pretty certain can say they would not cheat/lie on you.
I think there must be quite alot of girls that are looking for a real partner a man they can trust and lean on. I have a good image of woman in general and think they are in general like that. Man certainly cheat more, it is not easy to control those hormons.........Of course there are B**** as well.

So maybe your problem is that you find your girls in the wrong places? Maybe  girls at discos and such are more interested in short adventures?

I also found it a little strange that you say:

I would try to seduce her every moment , be playful, funny, a friend...wverything, just to find thats she deserves nothing.

I think you should just be as you are and not play a role. Don't start with high expectations how your girl should be. Maybe you should not give everything too fast. Just give yourself time the get to know the girl and after a couple of months maybe you start to see if she is your dream girl or not. Don't plan in advance so to speak

Tom

I found the following Article pretty interesting and thought I share it with anybody interested:

http://www.future-horizons.co.uk/doc/A_Short_Discourse_On_OBE_Perception.doc

Tom

Who'da thought?

Me, the weather will even change more in the future (greenhouse effect) But until the Humans take action it will probable be too late...........

He is inside you and in everyone you meet.

Bad thing is, Satan can also be found there

Finally someone mentions me

I don't know what to say the internet can bring weird things out of people.

Mostly young people.

What is weird here? I don't think Satan is a red guy with a tail and a trident, i'd rather use that word to label the terrible things the human mind is able to do. If you doubt that the Mind can do bad things then you should start reading Newspapers..........

He is inside you and in everyone you meet.

Bad thing is, Satan can also be found there

Yes... It would be cool... And I would love to try it... However... It doesnt quite work like that, and I dont have the time to explain it all...

Theres a big problem going on in my life right now so... perhaps some other time we could try it...

ok, I wish you the best, and maybe later we can try.............

He is in you  

hello everybody

I found your discussion very interesting unfortunately I do not have the time right now to join in.

I would recommend the following article to you guys cause it touches similar questions. It is pretty long but very well written. I found the section about "Dynamic and static matter" especially intriguing.

http://www.future-horizons.co.uk/doc/A_Short_Discourse_On_OBE_Perception.doc

I wonder what Frank and Gav would think of each others theories?

Regards Tom

Hey Telos, haven't seen you for ages

Hello from me

And why doing meditation ?What it bring ?

Exploring yourself, exploring the mind

There are many different meditation techniques. When chosing you should first think about the goal. "Why do you want to meditate? What for?" When you know that, it will be easier to find the right technique.

Tom

So we could set up a little experiment! That would be very easy then. We just fix a time we both go online, you travel to me with your Astralbody and I hold a object in my hand, then you write in the forum what it was and I tell you if you got it.

That would be cool!  Will you try that?

You could probably start by actuly going out...
The most common cause of not being able to see properly is because you havent enough consciousness in your astral body...

I don't understand what do you mean by actuly going out? You mean get more awareness while out? How can I get more consciousness while out?

Second most common is your to far away from the physical world...
Lower yourself

How can I lower myself?

Thx for the answers! One more thing, is it possible for you to, lets say visit any place in the real world with our Astral body and correctly perceive it? I mean like going to New york and see the color of the T-shirt somebody is wearing?

Tom

[all]

"How does it feel to be at two places at once"
For me it just feels natural... I havent expereanced being in only 1 body so I dont have anything to compare the feeling to...

"Also, you should be able to teach us a lot about the nature of the astral....... "
I can teach you every little thing about the Astral Universe...
However you have all convinced me of how closedminded you all are, so whats the point?
It's allready clear that no one believes a word I say... so why would you want me to teach you anything?

We have all convinced you? I don't think that is a nice comment to make you should not lump us all together.  I already stressed that I don't consider you to be liar.

I want you to teach because of many reasons. Of which an important one is that we can maybe apply what you say and have our own experiences with it. We don't need to judge whether or not you are right but rather we can see for ourselfs.

For example you could explain why I can't see real objects like for example a playing card correctly when I'm out of body. And how i can fix that problem.

Tom

"30 hours per week"
Try 168 hours per week... Im both here and there... Bilocation.
And here we go again... Now where going to start talking about that... And more of "liar" "I don't believe you"...

My Physical body is more than awake while im in the Astral Universe...
So it has nothing to do with it...

However, For about 1 1/2 hours a day everyday while im visiting my friends I have to put more awareness in my AstralBody... And my physical body allthough still awake goes into a deep state... but im sure not deep enough to make up for any sleep...

-AstralBorn

I guess now we have some more things to talk about. How does it feel to be at two places at once? I imgaine that to be kind of difficult. I mean i can't really focus on two things at the same time. I mean, I can't focus conversation while focusing on a melody for example. how can you do that :confused:

Also, you should be able to teach us a lot about the nature of the astral.......