Messages

m0d0 -

http://www.12house.com/home/numerology.cfm  Check the links at the bottom of the page.  

Not a bad little site.

I understand perfectly what you are saying Lighthouse and therefore I agree.

That talk show host didn't happen to be a woman doctor, did it?

I forgive to release myself from pain, in doing so, I also release the wrong doer from guilt.  It's a freeing experience on both sides.

Uh, that woulda been me.[]

I agree that a belief in a higher power would develop.  Would it be the God that is worshipped by Christians was my point.  Although, I may not have made it that well.[]

Like you, I'm still "undecided".  

Interesting post.  Thanks!

I think I'll be moving to the U.K.  Just kidding.  I've visited England and I really enjoyed my time there (step family are all Brit's).

I knew that Blair was being criticized.  I did not know some criticize him for admission of his religious beliefs.  Interesting.

quote:Originally posted by Avalon

Gandalf - I live in Kansas. [8D] I see you are from the UK.  I live in the middle of the US, in a place known as the "bible belt".  A few years ago, the state of Kansas decided to remove the teaching of evolution from it's standard school curriculum because it conflicts with the teaching of Creationism.  We were the laughing stock of the nation.  And probably still are.  There were some who disagreed, of course, but not enough to reverse the decision quickly.  

Lighthouse -

"Perhaps the wisest of all is he/she who claims not to know all the answers."

Oh, most definitely.  How's this for a good quote: "The problem with the world is that fools are so sure of themselves while more reasonable people are full of doubts.". -Bertrand Russell

Sorry for confusing the definitions of atheism and agnosticism and mispellings.  There are some interesting definitions here, if one is interested:

http://freethought.freeservers.com/reason/definitions.html

And a link to an article about the Creationism vs. Evolution decision:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9908/12/kansas.evolution.flap/

Gandalf - I live in Kansas. [8D] I see you are from the UK.  I live in the middle of the US, in a place known as the "bible belt".  A few years ago, the state of Kansas decided to remove the teaching of evolution from it's standard school curriculum because it conflicts with the teaching of Creationism.  We were the laughing stock of the nation.  And probably still are.  There were some who disagreed, of course, but not enough to reverse the decision quickly.  

Lighthouse -

"Perhaps the wisest of all is he/she who claims not to know all the answers."

Oh, most definitely.  How's this for a good quote: "The problem with the world is that fools are so sure of themselves while more reasonable people are full of doubts.". -Bertrand Russell

Sorry for confusing the definitions of atheism and agnosticism and mispellings.  There are some interesting definitions here, if one is interested:

http://freethought.freeservers.com/reason/definitions.html

In today's 'western' society to be more exact.

That was what I meant.  Other than those who I have met on this website, in my little world, I have not met anyone who does not claim to be a Christian.  I realize there is more "out there" than what is presented to me, which is why I am on this website in the first place.

There is a quote that a Christian friend of mine sent me, he thought I'd like it. I haven't decided yet whether I agree with it or not.  Something about it really kind of irritated me.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts

bomohawkl  -

Yes!  Good word!  Wish I'd thought of it.  I agree completely!  Sounds like a pipe dream though, doesn't it?[]

I cannot speak for fallnangel but it sounds like you got my point.

I don't think we will move past our materialistic society until we can think of our lives here on a much larger scale than what we do.

By the way, I'm no conservationist.  I have nice dreams of simplifing my own life though.  If I could spend less of my time on the things that I own (or that own me, hehe), I could spend more time on generating love and peace and my own spirituality. I find it very difficult to let somethings go though.  I have a comfortable life right now, busy but comfortable.

Okay, here is another point of view on the issue of Agnosticism/Aethism vs. Christianity.

Imagine for a moment there were no organized religion, no bible, no dogma.  Would we (in the world) believe in some kind of higher power?  Maybe, maybe not.  If we did not, would we all then be called Agnostic or Aethist?  My guess would be no because there would be no label for that belief or lack thereof.  

I think it is the fact that there are organized religions that propagated the Agnotic/Aetheistic label.  I subscribe to no particular religion or belief, and I used to call myself Agnostic, because it made me feel I "belonged" to something.  I no longer call myself that just because I can claim some kind of belief.  I believe in a higher power, I do not believe in the "Christian God".  Like Budda's philosphies.  

I imagine the word agnostic stems from gnostic (not too hard to make that connection).  Gnostic's have a belief in God, agnostics do not.  So, I do not think it came about from a belief in Christianity but in today's society, Christianity rules, not gnosticism.

Just another .02 from me.[]

bomohwkl -

Actually,nothing is free. I'm not sure if this is what fallnangel is referring to or not, but we need water and we need air to sustain our physical bodies.  So, in essence, those physical things "own us".  Anything we think we own (whether we "purchased" those things or they are given to us, actually own us) and they come at a price to mankind if they are gone.  

The 3 things you believe are given to us "free" should be a symbiotic relationship, one in which the Earth gives us life and we return that gift of life with care of the Earth.  However, we humans are turning it into a parasitic relationship in which we continue to use the Earth's resources and pollute those very things in which we need to sustain us without giving back.

I would like to add that I completely agree with your take on society as "flowing flock".  The state of the world will not change until people start thinking for themselves.  No, I mean REALLY thinking about mankind as a whole.

I guess I'm with the majority of the poster here...I had a spontaneous projection.  It took probably close to 10 years to figure out what had happened.  It was an intense enough experience that I didn't forget it or the sleep paralysis that followed it.  I thought I had died, thinking I had stopped breathing because the whole body paralysis was similar to the feeling of having one's limb/s fall asleep (lack of circulation) but much, much worse.

I've had the same problem during meditation/AP.  I've not tried to AP in awhile but since I've begun, I have had several "waking paralysis" episodes.

The bad thing about the waking paralysis state is that it is very uncomfortable.  The last thing that comes to mind during that state is trying to AP.  I'm working on that issue though.

This happened to me just last night.  I awoke feeling slight paralysis with the "feeling" of my husband sleeping nearby on his back.  Then I looked at him, think it was astral sight (mine has a blue hue like moonlight). I had the thought to "slide" or "float" myself over to him.  Thought that was kind of a weird thing to think to myself. SLIDE/FLOAT over to him??  I could have just rolled over.  Then I fell back to sleep.

Wish I could offer some piece of advice to you.  I've found that it's taken a lot of patience but also a fair amount of perseverence for the few odd experiences I have had thus far.[]

fallnangel77

I think you posed an excellent question on the discussion of Christianity while also discussing agnosticism/atheism.

I was taught of nothing but a little Catholicism and some Southern Baptist beliefs.  I think it was my introduction to those beliefs that caused me to "not believe".  I read the bible and thought, WTF IS this?  I don't know why.  I like Gandalf's post in which he expands on the notion of the "Christian God".  I like what he has to say and this is what I choose to tell people when discussing my beliefs with others, who are 99% of the time, Christian.  Because I too live in the bible belt.  It's very rare that I get to have conversations about agnosticism/atheism with other agnostics or atheists.  Not what I'm used to.


"I will know when it matters. Live life as best you can, Love as much as you can, and Learn as much as you can. What else is there?"

Great philosophy, simply put and it gets down to the basics.

WHAT??  There is no Santa Claus?  I disagree.  I love playing Santa every year with my kids.  Santa is just too magical to deprive my kids of the experience.

When it comes time to tell them the truth, or they tell me they know "the truth", I'll tell them that there IS a Santa, and my husband and I have been playing him all along.  And that I enjoyed every minute of listening to their Christmas lists and wishes they had planned on telling Santa.  And that I enjoyed every Christmas morning I got to watch the surprise and sheer enjoyment in their eyes seeing all of the presents under the tree on Christmas morning, thinking that "Santa" had made it to our house once again.  I'll tell them how much I loved decorating Christmas cookies with them, just to make those few special one's to leave out for Santa.  I'll tell them how much I enjoyed only giving them the most expensive and biggest presents under the guise of Santa, not Mom and Dad.  I enjoyed giving them the magic that comes only when it's that time of year.  I wouldn't change my belief in Santa for anything and I hope my kids never do either. And in the end, I hope they enjoyed it too. I did because it's not about what you get but what you give.

quote:Originally posted by mustang

Yeah it obviously makes no difference whether you believe in the gods or not, doesn't make you a better or wiser person either way. The problem with believing in God is that the god a person believes in is usually just a projection of a person's fears, desires, ignorance, prejudices, hopes, egotism and character - which is why most people's gods seem to be devils. A case of man making god in his own image. Personally I do not doubt in the existence of divinity, but I do not believe in divinity any more than I believe that the earth is round and orbits the sun or that society is insane; I know the earth is round and orbits the sun and that society is insane, it has nothing to do with belief.

On the subject of the quoted speech of the Buddha's, it gets to the crux of the problem in society, doesn't it? I think that the central problem in our world is the reverance for authority, all authority; believing whatever you are told to believe - by your parents and elders, teachers, priests, journalists, economists, politicians, scientists etc. But god forbid people think for themselves, I guess that would mean having to take responsibility for their own lives, and who wants that, really?

Agree completely.  I think the reason that I choose not to believe in the Christian God is because of the reasons you listed above.  Part of me doesn't WANT to believe in a God as he is portrayed in some religions.  He does seem to be more a devil than an unconditional loving God.  Why the hell send us here in the first place?

There are people in this world that NEED to have God-fear to make it through their lives.  Or at least they think they need it to be productive members of society.  No way do I believe one needs to believe in God to be a good person.  Has nuthin' to do with it at all.

I've wondered the same.

As a matter of fact my most memorable, mysterious and vivid "dreams" have all taken place in one general location...the room I happened to be sleeping in at the time.

I've considered I might have been having OBE's.

I'm not saying I buy the concept completely.  I think we are all gifted and some choose not to use or explore those gifts.  I like to think there is a possibility of beings that exist with more natural ability.

I'm not saying neo is a crystal child.  There is an interesting link on that website to Indigo children as well.  Some people believe they've been incarnating on Earth for decades.  Therefore, there are also Indigo Adults. And Indigo Teen's as well.

I'm not out to prove anyone right or wrong.  It's just food for thought.

Another link...http://www.metagifted.org/topics/metagifted/indigo/adultIndigos/areYouAnAdultIndigo.html

Adrian, I was 9.  I've never been able to put into words why I felt the way I did about bible school.  I thought it was, for lack of a better word, idiotic.  I wasn't bored.  I remember looking around the room at everyone and wondering what all of it was relevant to.

Mustardseed, my Dad and I have gone head to head on the religious issue since.  My first boyfriend was a self-professed Athiest.I hope I've become an example to him in that religion doesn't make a person good or bad, successful or unsuccessful, loving or hateful.  It doesn't protect you from "making mistakes", we are human.  It also doesn't affect your idea of what makes you happy or sad or how you look at your life as a whole in those terms.

Despite being told so, I've never once felt that god would send me to hell for not being a believer.  I know I'm a good person and try to treat people fairly.  My god doesn't turn away any people with those qualities.

You know, I told him about it later. He asked me to not do this anymore.  He was always totally against me trying any kind of meditation or AP.  Anyway, I've respected his wishes to not include him in these types of practices.

Although, it's still interesting to think about what happened.

I've had a similar experience but what woke me up was a particular event in my, ummm, dream.  I've posted it elsewhere on this board.  I thought it was hilarious.    

I woke up about 30 min. before my alarm but realized that it might not be set.  I lay there for awhile and ended up going back to sleep, which was what I was afraid would happen.

Anyhoo, I had a dream and in it, ummm, my daughter gave me a wedgie.  Yes, I said wedgie.  I felt like my underwear was being hiked up as far as it would go and it became more and more uncomfortable.  The pain in my dream was enough to wake me up.

Needless to say, I, uh, woke up 3 or 4 minutes before I needed to be up.  AND the alarm did go off eventually as well.

I have no explanation.  Sleep patterns I guess?  Higher self?  Coincidence?  Maybe, in my case, my underwear was too tight??

I don't know that you really want to know my experiences and thoughts on this but here goes...

For me, I think it was a combination of both.  I attended church on and off with my Dad (my parents are divorced) when I was a child.  I hated it.  I felt like I was "missing" something.  I was "unholy".  I was unworthy.  I could not GET what it was everyone was so interested in.  This is bible school I was attending.

I had experienced a lot of mean-spiritedness as a child from members of my own family who were Baptist.  Finally, I broke down one day and begged my Dad not to make me go.  He was completely bewildered.  He asked me why and I said "I don't want to read the bible anymore!!"  My father was a Deacon of his church.  He did not make me go, but I did have to sit with the congregation during services.  

Throughout the rest of my life, I pretty much ignored religion.  Never thought about it.  But eventually began questioning the meaning of life at about 16 yo.  I think I turned inward and became more philosophical than religious.  I lived that way for decades.

I reading about alternative religions.  I'm finding more congruencies in my thoughts with New Age.  The problem I most often experience is that I will find many reasons to "believe" in one thing or another but then find something negative that makes me discard my direction toward that religion.

My guess is that I think it's safer to not believe in anything specifically than to risk it and be disappointed?  I don't know if that's a good thing or not but right now, it's where I'm stuck.

Why did you delete your post about your thoughts?  You never know who might find something they can relate to and help them![]

DrShaman - I've had a similar experience.  But it was extremely brief.  Which is one of the things that made it so amazing.

I was meditating one day with intentions of visiting Akashic records.  Thoughts of a friend of mine kept interfering so, I eventually decided to hold one thought of him to see what would happen.

I had a flash of an image.  It only last a second.  But in that second, I felt emotions, saw a moving image, heard sounds of what was happening in that scene.  Sort of like I must have lived it once. It is fascinating.  The dress of the person was ancient.  And either the scene was one of impending violence or, erhmm, sex.[:I]

Thanks for this post Tisha.

My kids are too young yet to discuss some of the stuff on the website with them (6 & 4 yo)but I've been trying to find a way to broach the subject of Magic itself.

One day they were wanting to bring a video to school for Movie Day and my youngest picked out "Rapunzel".  My oldest protested and said "You can't bring that to school it has too much fighting AND MAGIC in it!".  I turned around and asked her who told her that!  I was furious.  One of her teachers apparently has that rule in her classroom.  Ugh.  I told her to keep an open-mind about such things.  And reminded her that although much of what she sees on T.V. and movies is fiction, some people believe that "magical" things can be happen and can be good.  I tried to tell her NOT to liken violence to magic, it doesn't make sense to do so.

Beavis- I saw your entry about salvia on another post .  Sounds interesting.  I'll think about it.  

Thanks.