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I just tried this while awake with eyes open, and I can feel its effect. Seems like it would be great to use just as a projection technique. It has the effect of disorienting your position in space, while keeping the mind focused at the same time. Good post!

Cube, I wouldn't say you are having 30 second OBE's if you are doing it as you wake up. You are preapring all night long. Say you sleep for 8 hours...then IMO you are having an 8 hour OBE.

Its not a scam...it uses a random number generator and you must use Micro-PK (the ability to affect chance outcomes) to move it. I know I have moved it significantly...I can pull the line right off the bell curve to the far right or left at will.

Here is one article published in a medical journal that I found supporting OBE. Very interesting read...

http://www.paradigm-sys.com/display/ctt_articles2.cfm?ID=50

quote:Originally posted by tombodenmann


It seems to me that you do not objective judge but instead search for evidence to support your world view.$

Well I guess you didn't read my whole post. I am posting evidence both supporting and not supporting OBE. On the other hand, I have yet to see you post ANY evidence against it, and all your evidence has been for the support of real OBE's. So I'll turn your question back on you. Why have you only posted supporting evidence, and not even aknowledged evidence opposing your view? You seem almost threatened by the idea that OBE may not be real, hence your defensiveness about this topic. If you want to know my personal opinion, its that OBE's are in fact real experiences where consciousness leaves the body. But I will not rule out any evidence, and am not afraid of any evidence pointing in the other direction. I have my mind open to the possibility that we are imagining all of this, and hence am posting any evidence I can find.

quote:Originally posted by tombodenmann


I think this theorie is pretty weak[]

1. If your ear nerves would shut down during sleep your alarm clock wouldn't be able to wake you in the morning, wouldn't it?

2. If your body nerves would shut down, You wouldn't feel if somebody is chewing on your feet, which would be rather impractical. And which is obviously not true as well.

3. If I have a LD and I end it. I can feel a movement to my sleeping body, Which doesn't make much sense if the whole dream would only be in my brain. Then when I stay completely calm the vibrations start immediately, which doesn't fit with your theorie cause my nerves would already be shut down then, since I'm in the middle of sleep.

The vibrations remain a mysterie.

So you think that a theory that your energy body resonance is changing and you are slipping from your body and becomeing a "ghost" in some other dimension is a more plausable thoery? Have you hear of Occam's razor? If not, find it and read it. What I stated was in fact not a theory at all...its a scientifically proven fact that the nervous system shuts down during sleep. This is what causes sleep paralysis...the brain can no longer fire impulses to the muscles. The reason you can wake up from an alarm clock or feel something on your toe is because the brain re-activates the nerves upon strong enough stimulation souch as sound or touch. As I stated in my original post, I would like OBE to be real too, and I think that it might be...but I will post all evidence supporting or not supporting it.

Kazbadan,
I absolutely agree. When people want to believe, they will take any occurance of coincidence and turn it into evidence in their favor. Thats the wrong way to go about research. The key is in the way you think. Instead of wanting to believe OBE is real, you need to want the TRUTH, whether its a big letdown or not.

I think that those that say "we don't need proof" or "we only need to prove it to ourselves" are a bit scared of the thruth. Lets face it...the evidence against it being "real" is very strong, while there is little evidence for it being more than a complex creation of the mind. Lets look at the facts:

1. Everything can change in the astral.
2. People go OBE and see something, then come back to their body to find that what they saw never happened.
3. People often meet others in the astral and the other person doesn't remember it.
4. Nothing can hurt you in the astral
5. The "vibes" of separation are exactly the same feeling you get when your nervous system shuts down. The rushing in the ears is the sound you hear when the nerves in your ears begin to shut down as well. This points to the fact that these exit sensations are nothing more than our body preparing us for sleep. It is a well known fact that almost all of the bodys nerves do shut down during sleep. We are just forcing ourselves to stay conscious of these sensations. It seems as though the vibes are not caused by our resonance changing or anything like that.

All of these are against the existance of a real OBE. Now for the evidence supporting them:

1. A few people have in fact been able to go to a remote room and identify an object, then come back to report. I have never heard of a case of this actually being a clear identification though. Usually a gold pot for example might be seen as a yellow ball. This evidence is very inconclusive and could be attributed to a lucky guess.
2. Robert Monroe was once under observation at a lab, and upon projection, the scientists saw a "heatwave" like distortion leave his body. This is probably the strongest evidence yet that some energy body left his physical body.

Thats about it for supportive evidence. I'm really trying to show both sides in this post, as it would be foolish to blindly believe either way. I know we all WANT astral projection to be real and not some fantasy, but don't let that get in the way of being logical about it. I myself am still on the fence about it. Yes it feels very solid and real, but the human mind is cabable of creating incredible thoughts and fantasies. I would love for it to be real, but I'm not going to lie to myself about the evidence as many people tend to do. I think what we need to do is more experimenting. I hear so many people come on and say "I went to the astral and had sex then flew in the clouds!". Woohoo. Put your valuable astral time into researching. See if you can 100% ID a card in another room over and over again. No need to prove it you say? Thats rather selfish IMO. There IS a need to prove it so that if it IS real, one day we might understand it and even have scientists legitimatly study it. We aren't going to go anywhere without an attitude of exploration and experimentation. You might have to put your beliefs on the line to do that, but the payoff is knowing the truth...favorable or not.

quote:Originally posted by sreenathc

Jeff,
  Thanks very much for your clear reply....makes a lot of sense now.

  Yesterday, I downloaded a program called BWGen that allows a binaural beat to be played and the right sequence can induce Astral projection (supposedly)....it was called Astral Projection in 8 minutes or something like that.

  I tried that yesterday, but what happened is that I think I felt asleep after about 12 minutes, but the dreams were sort of weird...but that was not the strange part, after I woke up, I felt tired and drained out for the next few hours. Is this a normal response? I have never tried this audio induced technique before, and am not sure if this is legit, and actually works.

Thanks,
Sree

Binaural sounds do work for some. I have the same problem you do...I feel like a zombie for hours afterward. It almost feels like I am sick because I feel so terrible after listening to them. My guess is that it drags our brains down into the Theta state and we have a hard time getting it back up the the waking state. The other wierd thing that happens to me is for about 10 minutes after taking off the headphones, I can hear what sounds like a giant supercomputer. Remember the sounds of the bridge in Star Trek? Just a million little chirps and beeps? It sounds like that...really wierd.

Not trying to be an a**, but learn how to spell and form sentences and you might get alot more responses.

LMAO! Yes they can almost be like a job, eh? And too much work is never a good thing. []

Do any of you guys have real girlfriends? You might want to look into finding one. []

quote:Originally posted by jc84corvette

Never do that again! That goes for everyone.[]

This was is perfect for a neg to get your out of body and get inside you. Not a good thing!

Have a friend pull you out or your guide.

Absolutely untrue

Forcing yourself to be a certain way in waking life is bad, and can lead to pent up frustrations and then an explosion of those negative feelings.  If you want to change yourself, you have to change your desires.  You have to change who you really are, not force yourself to act some way that you really aren't.  I had a big trust problem with my girlfriend for a long time.  I tried to deny my feelings, and they got worse.  Only when I accepted that she can be trusted and truly realized that I should trust was I free of my jealousy.  You have to change what is underneath.

Of course these places and things exist because we think of them!  Thats the way everything psychic works.  Telekenesis...you think and believe strongly that an object is moving, and sure enough it does exactly what you want it to.  Enery manipulation...you imagine a ball of energy between your hands.  If you have a strong enough mind, you can even make it emit light.  IMHO, everything that is not physical is made of pure thought.  With enough thought power, some of these things can even be manifested in the physical.  I like to call the Astral the "Thought Dimension".  Everything there is just thoughtform...whether its your own or someone else's.  Why do you think its so easy to manifest anyhthing you want there?  The spirit is thought, and so the spirit dimension is composed of thought as well IMHO.

YoungSpirit...you should consider yourself very lucky!  Most of us practice for a long time to acheive what you can do naturally.  I've been at it for over 6 months with only a few spontaneous short OBE's and no intentional conscious exits.  Don't be afraid of anything...you have ultimate control in the astral. You should know...you may see spirits, astral animals, and even evil creatures while out.  You absolutely have nothing to be afraid of though.  If you see them, don't freak and just tell them to go away.  If you are fearless about it, they will leave.  While in the astral you also have some incredible powers.  You'll learn all that eventually though.  Have fun and keep at it and you'll learn alot!  Take care...

I've tried this technique two nights in a row, and both nights lost consciousness once I reached the end of the line.  The odd thing is that I usually do not lose consciousness this quickly if I do lose it at all.  I'm wondering if the technique worked, but I missed the conscious exit.

quote:Originally posted by APGuy

Second of all to holy reality vibrations are just that vibrations.  They aren't considered sound unless they are interpreted by human ears as sound.  And yes it would eventually reach us but it wouldn't be enough left over for the brain to interpret it as sound.  After all the whole point of this riddle is that noone was in a large area of the tree and couldn't hear it fall.

Bzzzzzzzzzzz...wrong. Sound is sound, regardless of if it has hit ears yet.  Sound is simply vibration, or rapid fluctuation of air pressure. Using your logic, light wouldn't be considered light till it hits your eyes.

Yeah thats the vibrations...feels like you are on a washing machine.

I've heard several different things, but most people say that your psychic abilities will greatly increase.  Here the catch though...you have to practice them in the astral.  People who practice Telekenesis in the astral seem to be able to do it much more easily in the physical.  Robert Peterson even tells of one experience where he tested his TK abilities.  He approached a parking meter and placed his hands around it.  He concentrated on it being unlocked, and sure enough, the back popped open and tons of change started pouring out.  He freaked, and being an honest person started shoving handfulls of change into the other parking meters while onlookers thought he was crazy! Thats some intense TK. We all know that TK is extremely easy in the astral, and I think that this builds your confidence while practicing there.  That confidence is carried over into the physical, and the key to TK IMHO is confidence and faith.

A few questions...First, if you had the humming in your ears, how did you hear the TV?  How do you know it wasn't just the humming in your ears?  Secondly, if you looked over at the TV during the vibrations, you were certainly already in the astral.  That means that the TV snow may have just been a mental creation in the Astral, or simply an astral oddity.  That doesn't mean that the TV was doing that in the physical at all.  What did the TV look like when you woke up?

I've used earplugs several times and they really do help.  I have the Hear-os musicians earplugs.  They are about $25 for a pair, and are very comfortable.  I originally bought them to cut down on hearing damage from playing with my band.  I'm sure the cheap foam ones work great too.  They seems to isolate you and put you in your own little world since you have pretty much no sensory input.

I really don't want to start a flame war, but take anything you read with a grain of salt.  RB often seems to "guess" his way through what goes on during OBE IMHO.  Alot of his theory's just don't make sense if you really think about it.  So basically what I'm saying is that you don't have to take what RB says as "law".  Your ideas are just as valid a guess as his.

Alpha,
Your post must be the most ironic I've ever seen.  LMAO! You're actually talking about not being judgemental while at the same time judging that the questions of others are "pointless".  At least I got a good laugh out of it.

I made a similar post recently.  For some reason, about a month ago I started getting vibrations while wide awake.  They don't feel intense, but are certainly there.  I can feel them in my legs right now.  If I'm laying on the sofa watching TV at night and I'm fairly tired, they become more pronounced.  Sometimes they move to the center of my chest and more rarely to my head.  I actually think they feel kind of nice though.  And I don't mind them at all because its been very easy to get intense vibrations when I go into trance ever since they started.  In my opinion, if you can't ignore the vibrations while in meditation, you won't get to the point of separation anyways.  A key factor is that you have to ignore them and remain relaxed.  Keep trying to be passive about them.  Enjoy them and just let them happen.