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All I know about that noise is what I have experienced myself, and what I have read about it in the ebook www.thefreedomofchoice.com .

It can actually be a method of astral projection, called concentration on the 'Inner Sound'. If you attempt to intensify that noise, concentrating hard on it, eventually it will become very very 'loud', but it 'leads' you to your higher-self. Eventually you'll see the light of your higher-self, at the end of a long tunnel. You are correct, the noise does come from within.

Kazbadan, You should do a search on 'proof' or 'card experiment'.

Taking a few results as examples, the following are some of the users that claim to have had proof that they were out of body:

Beavis
Links Shadow
wonderboy
gerble king
Donna
Patty
nightflier101

There are probably many more. Try a search for 'card experiment'.

[My basic 'no-frills' method:]

I've practiced telepathy for a total of no more than 8 hours in my entire life, but I am still confident that I can send and receive colours, numbers, emotions quite accurately. It is a very simple skill.

(forgive the UK spelling)

My basic 'no-frills' method: To send a colour. Sit across from your practicing partner. Both of you relax (no more than 10 seconds).  Close you eyes (optional, i like to rule out the possibility of body language) .(optional) Visualise a 'tunnel' of light or other connection from one person to the other (no more than 30 seconds).

The sender visualises a colour, visualises being surrounded by that colour, visualises the receiver being surrounded by that colour, visualises being in the receiver's point of view and seeing the colour, visualises being the receiver and seeing the colour. Lots of 'action' and different points of view should be applied to what you're sending.
The receiver just waits, trying to keep a blank mind. You do not need to be an expert at meditation, or have a totally clear mind. You just need to know not to 'decide' or think of a colour. If a colour pops up, don't forget it, but dismiss it. If it keeps coming up, maybe that's the one. In the end, there will be one colour that you've 'got a feeling it is', more than any other.

(The sending/receiving part normally takes 1 minute)


That's all. Just practice that a few times, you should notice improvements at a fast rate. In the beginning there will be a lot of "OOOH, That's the one I thought it was first, but I changed my mind, damn!". Keep practicing, you'll naturally learn to identify which feelings you should be going with.

I don't get much chance to practice, so if you do have someone to practice with, well, i'm jealous.

Good Luck

[]

Kazbadan, I'm sorry if I'm about to presume wrong about your attitude to this.

Nobody on this forum is going to be able to prove to you that OBEs are real (mind and brain seperate). That's not their job. If you care so much about it, try to prove it to yourself.

When it comes to proving it to yourself, there are limits. Can you prove that the sun exists? Maybe all of reality is a dream! Maybe the sun doesn't exist. If you entertain those sort of 'illusion' theories, then you'll never have proof of anything.

While you're practicing OBES, you should also try telepathy. Telepathy is - in my opinion - the easiest of the "psychic" skills. Anyone can do it, with very little practice. When you and a friend set up scientific conditions and achieve consistent 70%+ results, it will tell you something.

Does telepathy really show that the mind is not limited to the brain?

Does a "RTZ" OBE with something verified really show that the mind is not limited to the brain?

Does the ability of the mind to physically change the brain really show that the mind is not limited to the brain?

Do all of these NDEs with accurate details of events in the physical world really show that the mind is not limited to the brain?

You can't prove anything to anyone else.

Colin, I do not know much about the places you mentioned. The mind is more than capable of creating 'imaginary' worlds, dreams (lucid or otherwise) show this. It is also possible to share (as a form of telepathy) a collective illusion, and from what I've heard, Astral Pulse Island is one of these.

I should have been far more specific in my first post. I was mainly considering projections that are somewhat similar to reality, but with many distortions. I often hear of these described as the Astral Plane.

I am still inclined to think that 'other worlds' are not on other planes, but rather are created by the mind, either in dream fashion, intentionally or received through telepathic projection.

quote:
I agree and disagree with this. It depends on how you are projecting. If you are naturally projecting, meaning you allow the natural occurance of the separation to happen and catch it in the process and go along for the ride then yes no concentration is needed at least for the projection itself to occurr.

If you are doing an unnatural projection, meaning one you willfully induce this can take loads of concentration and will, at least at first. Either way at least some concentration is needed otherwise you wouldnt even remember that you wanted to be able to project.

This is an interesting point. When we die - for example - we would not expect to have to use concentration to 'see' or control our movements too much. Reports of NDE's confirm this. It is as if someone or something is concentrating for us, in these cases. (higher-self maybe?)

This is - however - different to what I am describing. I am specifically talking about willful projections. I am also sure though, that when you go along willingly 'with the ride', on a natural projection, your concentration can still affect things.

[at any given time]

quote:Originally posted by dkj400

Concentration doesn't play a major part when projecting. When you do telepathy, you need concentration because you are using your physical body and are limited to your powers

[:O] Then what is the point of spiritual development, if we can just do everything when not in our physical bodies? I disagree.

quote:
(we only use 20% of our brain).

I don't know about only using 20% of our brain, maybe 20% at any given time, but I doubt it's 20% in total.

quote:
Why is it, that when you project to the RTZ everything is the same as the physical world but when you project to the Astral Plane things become distorted and out of place?

I answered that question with my 'theory'.

quote:And the RTZ isn't different from our reality, it is our reality, or rather very close to it. You are just simply out of your body whilst very close to our current world.

I proposed in my first post, that I think you are NOT anywhere different, you just have a certain level of concentration. I am also inclined to think that there is only 1 'plane', reality.

quote:Where do you think ghosts come from? They are in the RTZ. They can see us but you cant see them.

I would say 'ghosts' are in physical reality, not anywhere else. I won't go into my opinion on what ghosts are though (off-topic).

[know]

I was also in a state of confusion some years ago. I was (and still am) disappointed that so many 'spiritual' theories had nothing to back them up. I was always reading about theories that our perception/time/the universe/whatever is just an illusion, theories that are largely unverifiable.

This ended when I read this e-book, so I highly recommend: www.thefreedomofchoice.com

On matters as important as these, believing is not enough. No matter what you believe, no matter how many people believe it, it's not going to change the reality of the universe. For this reason, believing is not enough, we should seek to know.

Please refer to my previous post on this thread, if you are wondering "What created God then?".

quote:Originally posted by James S

Maybe not to the world as such, but nothing wrong in sending your positive energy to the Earth.
Believe me, she notices it, she appreciates it, and she has her ways of showing you her appreciation in return.

Why is it 'positive energy'? I don't see where 'energy' comes into it. Energy is scalar, it can't be positive/negative or good/bad.

(Telepathically) Sending love to everyone in the world is what I would understand it to be. []

[saw]

Regarding this experiment (and any others): I'd just like to suggest that anyone who tries should not guess or go by a 'feeling' of what the target was.

You either saw what the target was, or you didn't. Try to be certain of what you saw, before naming the target.

[develop itself]

I mostly agree with twstedrage. Would you want your children to worship you?

I do - however - think that there is a lot we can learn about the universe by studying ourselves. I do not mean 'studying ourselves' in a kind of 'esoteric' way, I mean literally studying the way our minds work, what is logical to us, what feelings we enjoy most etc.

I've found that the most interesting and significant thing about the mind is its ability to develop itself. Minds seem to be one of the only things that can actually do this. Everyone agrees that matter can't develop itself, most scientists agree that matter decays.

You are free to assume otherwise, but if we assume that in the beginning there was nothing, then we can actually try to piece together 'the unknowable'. The chances of ANYTHING coming from nothing are agreed to be infinitesimally small. What if we weigh up the chances of the universe creating itself, with the chances of a mind creating itself?

The universe is (highly) ordered and as we know: all matter decays (becomes less ordered). Any kind of 'matter' that appeared from the nothing would decay back into nothing.

However, a mind could start even as the smallest of awarenesses and still be able to develop itself to infinity. The chances of an awareness creating itself - althought very small - are MUCH higher than the chances of a universe creating itself.


I really recommend reading the free e-book "The Freedom of Choice" by Tom Chalko www.thefreedomofchoice.com

quote:Originally posted by Arthelion

Hi,
I hope you noticed my question in the Reptilians forum (page 6). If not I'll state it here. I asked them if the book Thiaoouba prophesy was true. Guess the answer... no. It somewhat disappointed me, because I believed it. But that's how it goes. Nevermind.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying Arthelion.

If you have found arguments for Thiaoouba Prophecy being false, please post them here. It would help to have a little more information than what someone has told you to believe.

Hi azrael,

I think you've mixed up a few things about the book. I recommend that you re-read it at least twice, as Michel recommends. Reading 'The Freedom of Choice' (on the same site) will also help. See Thiaoouba.com to find out what discoveries the book has led to, such as the danger from global warming and atmospheric pollution.

[you have no eyes]

Kazbadan and others who are disheartened by the many distortions that happen with most OBEs that you hear of here, should take note of certain things:

We know that:

Telepathy is the attempt to communicate without using 'physical' senses/organs like the mouth and ears.

Success of telepathy depends on the level of concentration you have when performing it.

'Fluctuations' or 'inaccuracies' will develop if the level of concentration is not sufficient.


My Theory:

We see things because of our eyes. When out-of-body, you have no eyes. Sight - while out of body - is the attempt to view things without using 'physical' senses/organs like the eyes.

It is a skill and 'fluctuations' or inaccuracies will appear if the level of concentration is not sufficient.

Getting the correct 'image' while out-of-body depends on the level of concentration you happen to have during that OBE.

Therefore, I am inclined to think that there is no 'Astral Plane', where things are 'different' and distorted.


I don't really want to take this off-topic, so I might start a seperate topic soon to debate whether my theory is correct or not. This is just to show why fluctuations and things that do not match reality are bound to happen.

I haven't projected yet, but I am also surprised how few people on this forum have had 'confirmed' "RTZ" projections. Although there are other ways to do it, it is important to prove to yourself that the mind and the brain are seperate.

This happens to me from time to time. It is perfect for getting you to actively think, reason and question things. It gives you the opportunity to turn those beliefs into something more concrete, or to replace them. A little reminder to be more open-minded I suppose, it is also important to accept and consider the possibility that you may be wrong about some things.

No matter what we believe, and no matter how many people believe it, it's not going to change the truth in the universe. For this reason, believing is not enough, we need to KNOW.

Seek.

Congratulations on that experience []

Your higher-self is not you, it is more like a teacher to you. It's main role is as a personal interface to God/Great Intellect. There is a lot of 'junk' information in our minds over the course of our lives, the higher-self acts as a 'filter' for the negative thoughts/feelings.
Well, if you want to know more about it I suggest reading those two books www.thefreedomofchoice.com and www.thiaoouba.com .
edit: haven't you already read Thiaoouba Prophecy?

I can't think of what I would ask if I had such a direct contact like that. Must have been hard. Congratulations again []

[reality]

Theories like 'Cosmic Unity' or 'we are all one' make no sense to me.

I am an individual. I want to be an individual. I experience the consequences (good/bad) of all of my actions. I can develop my mind, or regress. This is the reality of the universe.

Or maybe it is an illusion, maybe the universe is actually a big chocolate cake with energy animals dancing around it. Maybe all of this is a dream, for one of us.

I sincerely hope no-one is tricking me with an illusion, since reality is all I have to go by.

Love is a two-way feeling. God would want to love and be loved. I don't understand why the universe was created if 'we are all god'. I know that many people misinterpret 'enlightenment' - joining your higher-self. 'Enlightenment' involves acquiring knowledge of EVERYTHING, and the feeling of being loved, I can see how this can be mistaken for being 'one' with everything.

quote:I can not learn faster than God because I am God... I can not learn faster than myself

If that is true, you can not learn slower than yourself either. You can not engage in more primitive actions than god. In short, doesn't that mean you can do ANYTHING and there shouldn't be any kind of negative consequences? What is the point of spiritual development?

I base my conclusions on the observable reality of the universe, you base your beliefs on the theory that this reality is an illusion.

With love
Meedan

I don't know what you mean by 'Cosmic Unity'. Like I said, you DO take with you everything except knowledge and memories.

The mind that created the universe (god/the great spirit/whatever) had to develop itself from nothing and without ANY help from 'matter' or lives to live and learn from. It created the universe and the life reincarnation 'system' so that we could have the chance to develop at a faster rate than god was able to. We have the benefit of learning from a pre-designed nature and interaction with others. Eventually we will have caught up enough to join god (join, not merge), and thus not need to reincarnate any more. But god would not want unintelligent, unevolved people to be able to join it.

You probably DO have the choice to stop reincarnating, but it would be a silly mistake, as you'd have to develop all on your own...

quote:some kinds of meditation require some thought. A regressive meditation, for example, is a reliving of past. however, you have to clear yourself of any unneccessary thought for it to work.

The word 'meditation' has just been added to the phrase 'regressive meditation'. I would call it regression - which happens to be an exercise in concentration.

quote:In meditation you are excercising your mind without use of your body. that is the simplest way I can put it. Even clearing your thoughts can be considered excercise.

Both meditation and concentration are mind exercises, at the two opposite ends of the scale.

[understand]

It sounds like you are referring to knowledge and memories as something you wish you could 'take with you'. There is a REASON why your memory is (temporarily) erased before living lives. Teachers - for example - don't want you to simply remember your mistakes, they want you to understand. Just as teachers want you to be able to apply your understanding to very different problems(lives).

What if a child committed his arithmetic mistakes to memory; he remembered that 2 + 2 is 4, not 5, he remembered that 2 + 1 is 3, not 7. He would not be able to independently understand and answer eg. 3 + 2, 20 + 20, or 1 + 1. You would just be cluttering your mind with useless information if you try to remember every mistake you make.

You DO 'take with you' things like: your sense of humour, imagination, and intelligence (best defined as the ability to learn).

So, I would hardly call it going 'backwards developmentally' []

I'm sure there may be people who can remember their previous lives, but such knowledge is irrelevant.

Meditation is the opposite of concentration, you have to clear your mind of all thoughts. Both meditation and concentration are beneficial and it is probably best to practice both in cycles (meditate then concentrate straight after).

Many people have meditation confused with concentration, and say that you should visualize something, but that is not meditation. Just try to clear your mind of all thoughts, it takes practice to maintain that state for long periods of time.

[] Although strange and confusing, I thoroughly enjoyed that, Brilliant. Well done []

quote:Originally posted by Jackwuzhere42

What I would do, is leave an air of mystery. like
Junior: Dad, is santa real?
Dad:he might be. I've never actually met him, but I've never really thought about him.
Junior: (goes off to somewhere else) hmmmm... I wonder if santa is real, (think, think, brain stimulation, brain stimulation.)

I agree, this scenario would at least be better than what we have now. But perhaps the child would then go off and find out what 'TV' thinks. I would simply replace the dad line with "hmmm... What do you think?".

This would mainly be for older children though.
It's not as if you need the media and parents telling younger children there IS a santa, just to get to the "What do you think?" question. There are plenty of things children can be asked their opinions on [], there's no need for adults to push these fantasy stories as truth.