Messages

Thanks guys,
Ive also started reading the "Art of Happiness" by the Dali Lama which is helping.
Best Regards.

Thanks Nostic I really enjoyed reading that, Im bookmarking it and reading it again soon. Very wise.

Ok Ill try some hardcore stretching whenever I get this, or prior to meditation/obe attempts and will report back. Cheers.

My brother had a near identical dream, in which the points re the flood, restaurant, group of familiar people around and someone knowing it was coming were exactly the same. He also dreamt of invisible attackers, but none of the village stuff... Those identical points really blew my mind tho so I had to comment, is it common to have people having the same dream?

Hi,
Ive been getting the dreaded RLS quite a lot more lately whilst getting into trance or during meditation, and was wondering if anyone else was finding the same thing? I know it brought this on before but I put it down to coincidence more than anything else, but have just been getting it consistently for the last few weeks or longer.

Makes it even worse since I try and do trance/meditation before going to sleep, then I cant sleep as I have RLS...argh!

Ive read up a lot on the syndrome but nothing helps, just wondering if anyone else gets it whilst meditating/trance/energy work?

Cheers.

Tycoil you really are a freek Or is that phr34k? haha!

boo! I mean,
Boo!

Telos, I havent got a hard chair but Ive meditated, tried OBE from a computer chair and when Im tired my head always falls forward and jolts me back to reality, so I really doubt youd fall off.

Hey Potatis,
I just spent two hours looking through all the leslie flint material I could find, listening to recordings, how they tried to prove it was real, etc. However I still remain steadfast on my opinion on skepticism. I would literally have to be in the same room with this guy (if he were alive), talking to someone I know has died, ask them some impossible to know question, etc to KNOW its real. All those audio samples and "this was actually real because they gagged him" etc, seriously does nothing to assure me its for real. Im not saying its not real or it is, just that Im not sure and Id have to have, once again, solid proof, knowledge.

hey cobalt, I reckon a huge amount of people get what your describing, I do! Its one of the harder things for me to do - stay on my back comfortably. I cant sleep on my back fullstop, so its good to try meditation/obe from. Pity I cant sleep on my back though, because I can only sleep on my stomach, and that really hurts your shoulders and neck. Didnt always sleep on my stomach though so dont know what happened there I also read the mind checking for body awake thing, and it sounds like it may make sense. How could you hurt yourself from lying down on a flat, soft, comfy bed? And you stay in one position all night so it cant be bad for you, surely?

Potatis, I think you are talking from a persons viewpoint that already "accepts" a different reality, whereas if a skeptic listened to those tapes, he would come up with a million ways of how they faked it. I was a hardcore skeptic as well, and had to be slowly introduced into this topic in the most round about manner possible, through a mainstream tv program which talked about the science of the effect of sounds on the human brain. One thing led me to another and whilst before I would laugh at this sort of stuff, now I am open to it. Its going to be pretty hard to get most people to jump straight into this "wierd stuff" from nothing but skepticism.

However I think good ways to get people with more open minds to "accept" might be to do things like feeling energy sensations in their body, trying meditation, yoga, or any other easy/low level excersizes, but I cant think of much that might convince people of things like the afterlife and OBE. I personally think the best bet for this stuff is reading about the well documented cases of NDE where the patients have been medically dead, but explained who was next door/what illness they had and so on. Even then youll find people coming up with explanations of how those people must have met before or something like that...

I have been engaged in this topic 20-odd years, and if someone were to pin me down on which single aspect would be most beneficial for beginners, in my experience it wouldn't't be a method or technique, as such, it would be that of acceptance. And the other most important aspect to my mind is trust. But acceptance is the key to all of this IMO. A person has to accept their wider reality; allow it back into their lives and greet it like a long lost friend. Then simply do as you suggest, i.e. go with the flow of that and observe the changes in your perception.

Hi Frank,
How do you propose that people go about accepting their wider reality? I have had certain experiences that make me accept there is more to what I used to think was a pretty normal physical reality. So I say to myself, I accept its definitely not all that straight forward, but how do I know if I REALLY feel this way deep down? Its like, you might say "I'm not scared of dying" but then if put in that situation you might be terrified. Sometimes you just don't know. So I wonder how you would get people to go about this very important aspect called acceptance? I would say there would be a huge amount of people out there that haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary, who would have nothing to base any alternate beliefs on, and you are asking them to "accept"? When you say acceptance do you really mean "knowing"? Are they both sort of the same thing? Really *Knowing* something requires direct unequivocal experience. What are your thoughts?
Regards.

Ive read a lot about this subject as well and find it extremely interesting. Im not too for or against it, since in 30 years time Ill be 50+ anyway and will have lived a good life by then, so if anything strange happens either way, no huge loss.

The big thing I have with this not dying thing, is that it might interupt a natural process. If we are spirits having a human experience, then can we get trapped in human existance? If this stuff sounds a lot like astral realms, etc, why not just wait until youre dead to experience all of that, albeit at a higher more meaningful level, rather than essentially a glorified game? Who knows, perhaps once we reach this level of intelligence, it will be obvious that other states of existance exist. As they say a lot about this subject, however, its useless even thinking about what it would be like because we cant comprehend it, we arent smart enough, etc.

Cheers.

Seeing faces is a common occurance while on the sleep border, I get it all the time during meditation. Not sure about the lights or your eye though!!

How can you decide what people "should" be doing?

Because its so obvilously what they should be doing Ie, they steal, when they "should" not. They say they will do something and they dont - they should have. etc.

You may see your self as "good" and everyone else as imperfect, but I assure you this is the wrong mindset to have. The reason is that most people feel the same way. Many people have a mindset such as you and it is defiantly hard to break out of. Our general human nature is to see ourselves as right and all else as not quite up to that standard.

I definitely dont mean to say Im perfect, neither do I think other people think theyre "good" or overly considerate or mindful of their actions, etc. They may think they are "good people", but I always feel Im a big level above most (ok I know that sounded bad), because I make a big, conscious effort. Many, many, many times Ive been situations where I notice something happen that would make me label someone as inconsiderate, rude, etc and somehow they dont even know theyre doing it - such as one friend talking to another about something very (VERY) important to them, which is casually listened to then ignored, and Ive had to cut in and make sure that person feels theyve been listened to. Sometimes I wonder if its an age thing but a lot of the time this stuff happens to people from all ages.

The only real important advice I can give you is don't judge.

Yes I could definitely try and do that more. However I really get the whole "gotta get it off my chest" syndrome too, and only feel better about all of the above when Im doing that. I know thats one of my big short comings, and it must make people wonder what I say about them behind their backs... One thing thats popped up in conversation a few times is how good it would be not to be an overanalyser! However I think overanalysing and thoughtfulness/consideration are probably interlinked.

Obviously though, the most helpful advice I can give you is to accept people as they are and not to get too frustrated with how they act.

Ok but where do you think the line is where you say "I accept its going to be like this" or "this is unacceptable, cya later" or "this is unacceptable" then give them a piece of your mind. This sorta draws into the question of what should you allow to happen (say you are abused in some way) before its right to "fight back" or really lay something on the line/tell someone how you feel, etc. You cant take a flat out insult or be disrespected and say "aww, no one's perfect"

Thanks heaps for your reply though I really appreicate your time. Ive come to a point where I feel I need to do something different in the way I think and Id love to learn from some people such as yourself how youve tackled it. Sounds like I may be in for a long haul though

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to post, but Ive got a number of things Id love to discuss and would like to hear peoples suggestions/advice.

I'm mid 20's now and find myself increasingly frustrated and stressed out due to my own expectations of people, what they should be doing, or how they should be, and I get very riled up when things aren't the way they're supposed to be. I think I'm fairly smart, plus sensitive to this sort of thing, so if anything isn't quite right it gets to me. What I'm talking about precisely is anything from repeated late replies to emails/sms, people saying they will do something and not, saying it will be done by x time and its not, people not listening/being rude, getting treated one way when you expect better from friends or family, and so on. Now and again I might be paranoid but most of this stuff is definitely not being over the top, you'll just have to trust me in this discussion. However I guess this is a fairly large point, in that I think to most people, this stuff seems normal and doesn't bother them...?

Id love to hear peoples advice here - am I expecting too much? If so how/should I lower my expectations or just get away from those people/situations?

Have you got any advice on how to let this stuff go over my head/not affect me as much?

I know its horrible but at the moment Id almost say Ive never met anyone outside my own family who I could say I like, respect and trust with all of the above. But its so true. I'm not saying I'm a saint, I just try my hardest but it seems 99.9% of people don't.

Anyone have any books or links they think would help?

Frustrated,
JAW

If youre anything like me, you will go to one class, feel PHENOMENAL, then never stop going. Yoga is truly the best fitness I could suggest to anyone, plus it has the not so obvious spiritual bonuses.

Tycoil, thanks, I have some understanding of the brainwave theories, I think for now I might just have to accept that when I'm meditating my mind should be more open to more creative thought and ill... I'll just go with that for now and see what happens.

Mystic - So when you say it will "just vanish", you mean the thought vanishes, or your ego? What exactly do you mean will "remain thereafter"? How do you know if its worked haha! Its complicated hey.

I think I understand what you mean about the illusion of something dissapearing, like you might understand that youre fooling yourself into saying you like something or someone... Like maybe itd click during meditation that you dont REALLY like doing x or being with y. Is that right?

I've always been an over thinker/analyser and was hoping that thinking while meditating would help my brain out a bit when trying to figure things out and make decisions, but I must admit Im still a bit confused sorry. Thanks for the help so far though, much appreciated.

Ok thanks heaps everyone. Very interesting angles and so on. Anyone care to explain how or why meditating is supposed to help with when performing the above techniques? When you say you "meditate on" something, dont you really mean youre thinking about it while meditating? Whats the difference in terms of your thinking patterns etc while meditating vs normal thinking? Is it something to do with removing/reducing the ego effect? And if so how do you know when youre in the proper state and not still in "normal thinking mode"?
Cheers.

Tycoil - haha! Thanks I will keep your tips in mind.
Rastus - Also thankyou for your detailed reply and time.  I just finished a meditation session and tried your think of nothing idea, which is quite similar to what I normally do. When thoughts popped into my head I tried following them more than usual, however it was mainly just the usual crap that pops in there... what am I doing tomorrow, ideas for this and that... How do I seperate or pick out whats important/meaningful and whats not? Im afraid I havent been able to project/meet my guides at all so I cant do much in that respect either. So all in all, another meditation session which was greatly relaxing, but from trying to clear my mind I pretty much ended up with a clear mind

Hi Tyciol,
I think maybe you need to meditate on the strange need to correct peoples minor spelling errors!

Thanks for the feedback but I was more after specifically meditating/thinking about certain things whilst meditating, and how this is best approached. Do I just meditate as usual then start thinking about something that I want to "figure out" or "solve"? Do I think about it in the same manner as when I think about things in a normal state of mind? Or is there some thought process or mind state you should be in first?

I guess because Ive always used meditation as a relaxation/obe/trance technique, I usually try to quiet my mind rather than fill it with a question that I hope to answer or bring light to, or find new alternatives etc.

Cheers.

Hi,
Im currently at a bit of a crossroads career wise and have so many options available to me that Im not sure which way to go. I dont know anyone else that can really help me so it looks like Im almost on my own... Can anyone suggest any methods or techniques they use whilst in meditation where you focus on a subject or train of thought in order to try and gain better clarity on issues and try to better find the "correct"/"right" way to go?
Im reasonably experienced with meditation/entering trance, but Ive only really used it up until now to try out phasing/obe techniques.
Would be very grateful for any help.
Regards.

Ive tried the trial of bwgen and it seems like a great little program. Couldnt recommend it enough. Im not sure if its legal to get wav versions of bwgen files, think it probably is ok though...

Hi guys,
Thanks for the feedback. MTom, thanks for the detailed response, Ill have to take a bit more notice of the length of the tingles next time, and try and compare the length they stay depending on what trance level Im in. Youre definitely right on the whole waking up to sensations part, as my biggest and most full on experience happened exactly like this. Pity for some reason Ive had no similar experience for a good 6 months! I dont understand...
Ive also tried meditating on that experience, which can bring on the tingling feelings, as it was quite an event..

Cheers.

Ok quick background - still no OBE, but can reach almost 100% body asleep/mind awake, can get hypnogogics and some images going, rarely sounds and 1 landmark "vision" so far...

Im not sure how important it even is to try and tell these two sensations apart, but if vibrations means near exit and tingles are bad (?) then I think it is important.

So Im currently getting pretty full on, whole body tingles/vibrations (?) during meditation/breathe work, usually when Ive reached some level of body asleep. However when I read about vibrations it sounds like they continue for at least 15-30 seconds whereas I usually get it in waves which quickly dissapear. The tingle feeling whilst in body asleep state is quite full on, but I want to know if its me getting excited and generating "tingles" or if theyre vibrations. If theyre tingles, should I try and stop them by trying to remain calm/emotionless? If theyre vibrations why havent i projected yet lol!

Any feedback, ideas, etc are very welcome.
Cheers,
JAW

I have had almost the opposite problem lately. I can keep my mind awake, but once I start on the "Im going to stay awake" path, I cant sleep afterwards. Ill be in a good level of relaxation and my mind is clear, but then usually half an hour or more later Ill be getting very uncomfortable lying in the same position - then ill have to stop, admit "defeat" and try and go to sleep, which is then impossible During meditation I sometimes go from not being able to feel my body to being uncomfortable, which is annoying. I do yoga several times a week as well so its definitely not a body relaxation thing.

On the state of mind subject, another thing Ive found is that I can identify two fairly different states of mind, which can be pretty much switched on and off - one is a "Im going to relax and go to sleep" and the other is "concentrate, stay awake, count breaths" or whatever method Im using. Im not sure if its just eye positions or what, but each state I put myself in feels different, both physically and mentally. The going to sleep state is almost like my brain feels more relaxed (and Im pretty sure my eyes fall into a different position) and the concentrated state is focussed and going through whatever motions... Hope that made some sense. You should be able to notice the difference if you go to sleep one night and pay attention to the feeling, then perhaps once you have that feeling, change to a meditation/breathe counting mode and notice the difference... Im interested to know if anyone else has similar experiences.

Cheers,
JAW