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Thank you for replying!

Much food for thought

David this is a brilliant method, I been using the same method for a while now. I set my alarm clock for every single hour to ring every night (so about 5 rings if I sleep for 5 hours). I found this increases not only the dreams you remember (I wake up and quickly type the dream into my phone then go back to sleep) which helps astral memory to develop, but also helps to lucid dream and phase into astral.

its good you brought it up!

Anonymouse my philosophy is try everything to see what works best

But remember there is a lot of emotional energy which is actually spent when you are attempting to enter, which makes the entry even harder. This is why some people often try very hard for months and experience nothing at all, then they say 'screw this!' and stop practicing and suddenly start experiencing lucid dreams and obe's. Counterintuitive, but thats because their energy reserves fill up after a break.

Energy is wasted hugely if you feel any kind of 'urgency/rush/desperateness/dissapointment' from your attempts. Just treat it like you couldn't care less, if you feel tired don't practice for a while, take a break. Then your energy levels will stay higher and you will have success faster.

For example, If I start to fall down I could imagine my self in some kind of a place, and seeing things passing by my eyes, or something like that. Try to adapt the visualizations to the sensations maybe??.

I once phased within about 10 minutes by simply lying down closing my eyes and keeping my mind on the the very thought 'water' (not visualising anything at all). Soon I started hearing water as if from a distance, I focused on this sound, sound got louder, next thing I know the sound got 'normal (i.e. physically fully loud) and a fluctuation came (i suddenly could see a tap into which water flowed) next moment I know is I feel water on my face and suddenly a beach scene appears and I'm lying on the beach with water on my face (as If I teleported from my bed). I stood up and went exploring (but it felt like a physical separation (like a typical obe separation, quite 'heavy' feeling (I had to force myself to stand up and felt the astral body as if ripping away from the physical (gravity sensation). In my experience 'entry' into astral via a direct method is often like this, while other methods are very gentle entries, you kind of just slip into it.

So dont worry too much about making visualisations very realistic, I understand 'concept' alone (eg: 'think water') can be enough to bring forth the associated astral material and develop the scene around you until you are suddenly in it.

this is freaking fascinating, some of the stuff you guys talk about I have never even thought about let alone actually experienced (meteorites in the room!? how cool is that!!!)

woo hoo, I got a reply

Thanks Contenteo, did the first person say 'I am your guide' or did you ask them and they confirm this in an explicit manner?

Did you ask them anything else about them being your guide (eg: are they part of a group of guides, how many guides are working on 'you', etc)?

I'm trying to understand how guides work, so far my guide told me that I have only one guide (him) and he just changes shape dependent on the lesson he needs to teach me. This made me wonder how many times I had talked to him/interacted without realising it is 'him' that I am interacting with

thanks for Mellen - awesome reference, he's on youtube!

dont you remember me? im the kid from the junglebook

Guides often do this, they package a simple meeting with a huge amount of symbolism and terms which the person may not understand at first, but begins to understand later. I understand that its all aimed to help the person overcome whatever current difficulties they might be facing in life. The more the person understands the symbols the more they understand what is causing their difficulties and how to behave differently so their life is less stressful/painful.

Even the way the kid was behaving is possibly highly symbolic, if she considers what the kid was doing, how it was dressed, what was around it - anything caught her attention? Then she can consider what that could mean for her, and then see what kinds of thoughts pop up in her mind.

First time I met my guide he was a janitor fixing problems in the house (he fixed 2 problems as I was talking to him: one was a lamp in the ceiling, and another was a hole in the floor) - at that time I was spending too much time in meditation which was hurting me. I understood his symbology as to create a balance between 'higher things' (meditation) and 'lower things' (normal life goals). I changed my life by reducing meditation time, and my experience of life improved (i stressed less). Yesterday I met my guide and a golden watch on his desk caught my attention at first. Then I talked to the guide about my life plans and he explained that I have about 1 year to get one of my current tasks finished (I need to get a book published). Then I understood the symbology of the 'golden watch' (time is precious).

Treasure every single dream, every single astral experience, there is much learning in them if one contemplates what they could mean for them.

So a few questions,
1. What kind of people/beings did she encounter at first?
2. The people seemed to know she was there, but why the blank stare? Why didn't they talk to her?
3. My sister has done alcohol/drugs in the past, could that be the reason why she ended up in somewhat of a negative environment where people were stuck in ruts just like she was?
4. Who was the person she met with? Could it have been a guide? She did mention a kid she went to elementary school with that she used to play with at the playground, could this be him, possibly if he is deceased?

Hey ATTOJ, your sister is a legend! Awesome stuff!

(((1. What kind of people/beings did she encounter at first?))

I would assume she encountered simple projections (her mind projected the image of those people). If you see my previous post (how to meet your guide - for newbies) I explain there what I understand as projections vs. independent energies. I had many 'blank responses' when asking projections questions. They can't answer you because they work from your thoughts and expectations. If you are looking at them and asking them a question and you are geniuinely curious your mind goes blank for a moment awaiting an answer from them - because the mind is blank, they also go blank.

However you can trick such a projection in saying whatever you want by simply thinking different thoughts when you ask it a question, and the projection will answer to you by repeating your thoughts (its quite funny, makes them look stupid - you can be looking at an intelligently dressed business lady in a business office with other business people there and then make her say all kinds of silly things for giggles), but even then it's speech will become gibberish after a few words (because your thoughts usually fluctuate, the speech will fluctuate). Now, I do not think those were independent energies as usually independent energies behave 'originally', they would not all just stare, some of them would be doing one thing, others another, some would stare, others wouldn't care, some might say something, others might burp instead, anything like a normal varied crowd of people would behave.

((2. The people seemed to know she was there, but why the blank stare? Why didn't they talk to her?))
From my experiences projections and negative energies 'notice' you as soon as you notice them (like a mirror). But negative energies usually attack, as soon as they notice you they go straight for you, projections just go blank waiting for your next thought/emotion to react (if you get scared they might attack too, just copying whatever you think/feel).

((3. My sister has done alcohol/drugs in the past, could that be the reason why she ended up in somewhat of a negative environment where people were stuck in ruts just like she was?))
Only she can know this, or if she tripped with a guide then guide can answer her questions about the environment. I can't speculate on this at all. Astral is huge, I have no idea where she ended up. She might have perceived the environment as 'negative' but in reality it was not a negative environment at all, she simply got scared because its her first trip, and so she misjudged it. Many things could be going on.

One thing I do know is that she landed there for a good learning reason. If this reason is not explained verbally or telepathically, then she needs to simply spend some time thinking about the place she landed in, how it made her feel, what it might mean. Her thoughts would provide her with the reason (it is for her to grow somehow, to evolve into a 'happier/free-er' person, but exactly how depends on what she understands about it all).

She may also never know what the lesson was, as some lessons are not consciously understood, they simply need to be experienced (a lot of emotional lessons I found are like this, to do with fear, sadness, empathy, kindness - maybe they are to help us develop emotions and connect with those emotions in the physical). So maybe if she experienced sadness, then the goal was to connect that feeling with her past, so she does not feel too critical of herself, that she understands that she was hurting at that time and heal herself more through that understanding. It could be anything really.

(((4. Who was the person she met with? Could it have been a guide?)))
Well it definintely doesn't sound like a projection. I say based on its behaviour it was an independent energy (see my other post about guides for newbies) and as it said it knows her it is connected to her somehow, but how we can only guess. I don't like to guess, so I'm not going to.

Exactly who this was or what, can't really say to be honest, there is not enough data to make any comment, we can't even rely on simple logic here. Next time she is in doubt she can just ask, ask it 'Are you my guide? Where is my guide? I want to meet him!' and see what the energy says (thats how I met my guide 'in person' the first time). Most useful thing for astral: "Talk to everyone, all the time, about everything!" - this way she will learn fast what is what, who is who and what to do, energies will teach her things, show her things, explain her things and so on.

Think of astral like physical (but safer), you suddenly land in some place on Earth without any idea what it is or what is done there - the fastest way to find out - is to start asking questions from the first person you see. Within a few minutes you will know quite a lot.

Good luck buddy!
I have a fear that returned, its around flying and falling down, this kind of sucks as I get kicked out of astral as soon I experience it. So you won't be alone facing your fears tonight! (lets go and jump off a skyscraper together!)

update on my end:
So far I met my guide and spoke to him 2 times (it appears as a man).
Each time it was a person with dark skin (latino/black/asian(indian) looking)

Then I read that first time Rob Monroe met his guide it was a person with dark skin, and the first time Bruce Moen met his guide it was a giant woman with dark skin (first time I met my guide it was a giant man with dark skin)

Hence I'm wondering if people keep meeting the same kind of looking guide the first time around?

Szaxx, this is brilliant! Loved the trip, the creativity and your attitude, very funny read

I wonder what the second test was all about too.

I had only one experience of being 2 bodies in the astral at the same time. It was a very short one (maybe about 5 seconds or so of actually being in 2 bodies). I consider every experience in the astral (and physical) as a test, even if we are not explicitly told so, and I think that one I failed as well.

In short it was like this. I phased into some building, and noticed a girl there, she was dreaming. I woke her up by showing her a reality check (I put my and thru the door, then put hers thru it), she got very excited and 'awoke' (I assume) and we started messing about (not sexually, I was showing her how to levitate and stuff). Next thing I know is we decided to kiss, lust took over in me (at that time most of my 'tests' were around lust issues) and the image of me split into 2.

One was me kissing her and there was an exact copy of me about a meter away trying to take her trousers off (intending to have sex with her). I am quite ashamed of this behaviour, in physical life I am the opposite of that, I would not do this in the astral now either (it's not cool by my standards to jump on the first 'girl' you see and try to have sex with her, even though I used to do that all the time).

Anyways, I think it was the same kind of 'test' in so far as I should have controlled the 2 bodies, not just me kissing but the me that was trying to take her trousers off. I think that was the point. I don't know if you noticed the two you's somehow acted independently when you noticed there were 2 you's, even if for a few seconds. I think our test is to take control of them, just as you pointed out (I only realised this now reading your post).

I think we can do this next time by simply switching the thinking process/intending to be one or the other and then switching back (like flipping between the two bodies) or by intending to be both bodies at once. I don't know which one will work, if you do try either then please post a reply as I'm curious now.

I don't know when I will get a test like this again, but here's what I'l do, next time I talk to my guide I will ask him about this and what the point of the experience was, and post here a reply.

I am pretty sure this isn't really true.

My experience is also in line with Rudolph's comment. Thoughts/Emotions manifesting immediately depends much on the environment in which you 'land'. In some environments I have been in even basic reality checks don't work (eg: checking the clocks over and over) as the environments are too stable. Other environments I went to you can't cross from one side of the room to another without the room changing a dozen times, its very difficult to nagivate such environments.

I also noticed it all depends on 'who' is around you. If you have independent energies surrounding you, sometimes they stabilise the environment and there is less fluctuation. If you have your guide around you, they can sabilise the environment or do the opposite and make it very fluid (dependent on their goal with you).

Astral is such a huge place, there seem to be different rules in different areas and those rules fluctuate hugely dependent on who is around. The area will look exactly the same as another area (eg: someone's room) but the rules applying to it could be quite different.

Thus it all depends where the person 'lands'. Which is why I recommend immediately starting to ask the first 'person' you see out there some questions and see what they reply (see my other posts).

But these are just my deductions from my experiences, I understand that different people have different experiences in astral and thus make different deductions from them.

Anonymouse, entry via the 'direct method' (eg: sitting/lying in a phasing/obe'ing meditation and literally phasing out) is one of the hardest to get to lead to a result and can take many months of very hard work.

There are much easier entries namely 'indirect' (eg: attempt to phase out simply by intent as soon as you wake up, statistics show about 80% of newbies phase out within 3 days of trying this. The key here is to remain motionless when you wake up from a dream and try intent yourself to leave the body within about 40 seconds while the body is still in a semi-sleep state and the mind is not fully in the physical. PM me if you need a source that explains this method) and another easier method is lucid dreaming.

I use LD'ing and indirect method for my entries, but I also meditate a lot during physical days (meditation I do aims to develop astral senses amongst other things). But I first phased with an indirect method and I did LD'ing quite a lot before. The point is that direct method is unnecessarily hard especially if you have little conscious experience of astral.

Enter via the easy methods first, meet your guide (see my other post), talk to him/her she/he will tell you what is what and what you should focus on, then continue with the direct method if you so choose, or try both methods as I do.

Indirect/ld methods are much faster in terms of results than the direct method (I been working on direct method for 4 months now at least, with only maybe a dozen trips from it, but from indirect/ld methods within last month alone I had at least a couple of dozen trips).

: ) you can be tripping in a couple of days, just focus your energy on easier methods and put all your energy into them, they are 'easier' not because I think so, but because statistical studies show it based on hundreds of newbies trying to trip (pm me)

ps: also forget everything you read in terms of what to expect, heart chakra beating, vibrations, colours, 3D space, etc. At beginner level all of these are just distractions. These things happen to some people and not to others, and it all depends which method you use to enter, your energy level and so on.

Focus levels are important if you are working within a particular focus level, eg: if you want to download telepathic information (eg: vipassana meditation) then it is useful to you to get a quick understanding of what focus levels do what (eg: if you slip into the higher level of ecstacy/love you may want to bring yourself down to download some information, by using some distracting thoughts or anything else you know) and so on. If your goal, however is to simply 'enter', then forget everything about focus levels. Then your goal is to basically fall asleep without actually falling asleep, and thats it.

Now to make your life easier all you need to do is remind yourslef to 'relax and be fearless', whatever happens 'let it happen'.

Like Tom Campbell and Rob Monroe say
''My attitude became, if its going to kill me, let it kill me!'' This attitude is also great when you end up in astral and start getting attacked (I'm sure this will happen, I don't know a single person who was never attacked in all their trips, even if only slightly).

You can 'dissolve' the attack in seconds by simply adopting this attitude of 'if you are going to kill me, go ahead, I'l just relax and enjoy it, this is just a dream!' (I had all kinds of attacks from 'gentle' ones where a person would start throwing rocks at me, to medium ones where huge ugly demon faces would scream and shout at me, to horrific ones where a monster would jump on me and start chewing my arms and body with my bones snapping and crackling before my eyes - none of those attacks hurt, and they only lasted a few seconds. Why? Because as soon as an attack started happening I simply told myself ''relax, you can't kill me, this is just a dream'', and there was no fear anymore (and no more attacks, as you learn the lesson after that).

So, its much easier to enter if you use easier methods + no expectations + relaxed and fearless attitude.

I guess this post is more for newbies who want to meet their guide. I understand the more advanced practitioners here have their own techniques and skills already so may not find any use in this post. However it would be nice to get some experience feedback from the practitioners if they observed similar effects or had different experiences.
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Last night I used a trick to meet my guide for the second time now and have a conversation with him.
This is second time I use this trick, both times it worked perfectly (I met my guide and talked with him), i'l include it in my book as well now as it seems to work quite well.

Trick is very simple.

1.Whenever you are "there" (via whatever method be it obe/lucid dream/phase etc), simply look for a person. This is often not difficult as there are usually "people" around. If there are no people then think about people and go thru a wall or a window or any kind of solid thing (it will change the scene to meet the expectation)

2. When you see a person, go to this person and ask them anything (eg: "What's your name?) and listen to their reply. This "person" will either be an independent energy or a projection from your mind. If its an independent energy their reply will usually be quite "original" (eg they will give you an original name or a usual name, or react to you "originally/unusually" (eg start laughing, poke you in the face with a finger, call their friends, anything at all in my experience).

If they are a projection they will give you whatever name you are thinking about at the time or a name very close to what you are thinking or a nonsense answer (eg: "I'm a dhgss") or freeze and not reply at all, and their reaction to you being there is usually very "usual/dull/boring" (they just stand there like a robot, or if they are busy doing something they will keep doing it like a robot while you are talking to them). That's how you can know if they are a projection or an independent energy, to start with.

Although this step is not strictly necessary it's a great way to prepare yourself for the conversation with your guide that is to follow as it sets the intention and prepares the atmosphere.

Here's a practical example from last night:
I see a woman in the corridor.
I understand I can now use her to meet "my guide"
I go up to her and ask her "What is your name?"
She freezes and does not reply at all.
I'm thinking in my mind (looks like a projection)
Next I'm thinking about my guide.
She then replies "I'm Clyde"
I now understand this is a projection not an independent energy (my exact thought when I asked her her name was "my guide" - her reply was "I'm Clyde" - it's just my thoughts answering instead for her, she is my projection, not an independent energy)

Last time i met my guide an independent energy pointed me to him but now here i am standing with a projection. So the "person" may appear to be a projection. However this does not mean you can not "use" them to meet your guide. Common sense would dictate that you can't, but last night I found out you can.

3. What you can do next is even thought this is a projection of your mind, still go ahead and ask her "Where can I meet my guide?". This may or may not change things.

I went ahead and asked this lady that, expecting her to not be able to answer anything (as she is a projection + I'm expecting nothing = usually means the projection will do what i expect, based on my experience of messing about with my projections).

However situation changed dramatically. There I was standing with a 'smirk' on my face thinking I just tricked another one of my projections into some dumb answer, but the woman replied intelligently.

She said "No, I'm not your guide. You can find your guide there (pointing at a door) His name is Armany.)"

Now this is what an independent energy would typically do (give an unexpected "original" response and react in some unexpected way). So now this caught me by surprise, I didn't an expect a projection to suddenly act "wise" and independent like that.

I went, opened the door, and there was my guide. We talked for next few minutes about my current life plans and what I am to do next.

The point of story is a practical one. Although not all "people" you see may be independent energies (some but not all) you can use even a projection to help you find your guide if you ask it (maybe the guide takes over the projection and answers for her, I honestly don't know).

However you can't use projections for other things. I tried to use projections for other purposes in the past but they are like dumb logs of wood, they can't even answer intelligently usually (eg my projections can't even finish 1 sentence without their answer becoming gibberish or they just repeat what I think. Try to seek information about an astral level or energies there from a "person" who can't even put words together coherently in a sentence, it's impossible, one needs independent energies for that)

So, if you are obe/ld/phas-ing, you could meet your guide quite early on if you try and use a technique like this, as it's a very clear technique (the "person" points you where to go, and it's a very easy one to administer (eg you are verbally talking to the guide in "typical language sentences" rather than downloading chapters of information telepathically). So I believe this method is quite a good one for total newbies to obe/ld/phasing etc.

But think in advance what to ask your guide. First time I met my guide I was stunned and didn't know at all what to ask. Last night I spoke to him and again I had only a few questions.

Now I have more questions and tasks to do with him, but that's cos I thought about it for longer and he told me what we need to do next.

Also what you expect to happen is likely will not happen when you meet your guide. I know theory says otherwise but my practice shows this is the case. So drop off all your expectations as much as you can or they will be limiting your experience.

For example, I always thought my guide would be dressed in white robes and look like a white monk and that's how I imagined him, however first time I met him he looked like a simple janitor fixing the problems in the building and he was Latino/Black not white at all. Last night I met him he was a busiessman again not white at all but Indian/Black. I asked him last night if it's all him or if I have different guides, he explained to me that it's him, but he takes different appearances to teach me a diversity lesson (I.e to teach me to be more open minded, just because I'm white I'm expecting a "white" guide, so he appears latino, black and Indian instead - teaching me to transcend skin colour)

So if you are expecting an Angel to show up as your guide, drop your expectations, as your guide may take up the form of a homeless guy covered in own urine instead to teach you a lesson

I hope newbies and practitioners will share experiences here

It's really hard to read in the Astral. When you first start seeing a number, it will appear blurry, then your conscious mind kicks in and tries to figure out what it is. I have seen that with books in the Astral as well. It's kind of like a Google search where you type the first couple of letters of a word and the search engine immediately comes up with possibilities of what they word may end up to be.

I found this depends on which environment you are in, there are very stable environments in which even a beginner (eg myself) can stay for a while (eg 1 minute or more) without any fluctuation. I noticed this once doing reality checks on a wall watch which simply would not fluctuate, I was amazed by this as I never seen a wall clock be stable in the astral before.

Some environments are totally unstable (eg moving across a room and everything is changing/flowing, it becomes madness) and others are very stable (eg last night I was in someone's "office" with lots of detail in it (eg like a typical business man's office with desk full of papers, a watch, pencils, walls full of pictures, file cabinets, a busy looking office room) and I talked to this man for about 2 minutes (he is my guide) and nothing at all fluctuated until a few seconds before I got "kicked out".

Thank u guys all for sharing, I wrote a longer answer but my phone crashed

Thank you Lion,

I have been going through your past posts, I love doing that with people who have experience.

Yep, I got same advice from a few other sources, to just take it easy and observe what is going on.

My current phase scenario is a medieval room (I start there but then progress through the neighbourhood), but I did practice with a beach before. Once the beach scenario worked so well that it took about 5 minutes to phase into it, before I knew it, there was water on my face and I was literally there, it was very motivational. I think the Imagined movements of the water help to phase out a bit.

Stookie,

This is interesting, can you give any specific examples from your experience so I can understand it better?

I know a lot of occult symbolist (I have been an occult 'student' for last couple of years), but I don't find any of it in the wider reality at all. All I find are scenes/environments which have different 'settings' applying to them. For example one scene would be just like physical world, like someone's appartment, with people walking and stuff. Next trip would be a scene which is like a giant sphere, like a theatre, and I am a huge presence there moving around, with literally hundreds of people spread over different 'heights', animals and all sorts. Third scene completely different, would be like a 2dimensional screen with lots of images and me deciding which image to 'fly into' (i.e. flying into an environment) and so on.

Can you share different experiences you had?

These must be spread over at least 3 different 'levels/zones'? But how do I know which is which, nor indeed what to do there (except simply go with the flow)? The need for a guide becomes more imperative, but I can't seem to get 'him/her' to talk to me normally. Last time I met 'him'her' the conversation was very short.

I often have tests too buddy so I empathise completely,

Also you might have noticed that the dream test often spills into physical life. In other words you may have dreams at night of being tested (lets say to overcome issues of insecurity) and then you wake up, start the day, and during the day something will rise up that will trigger this test in a physical environment (Eg: you will feel very insecure, angry or anything as such). Have you noticed anything like this?

I say it because I noticed this very clearly in my life. The night time tests often spill into the next physical day or couple of days.

My tests are of a slightly different nature, I abstain from any kind of sexual activity (no women, no sex, no porn, no any kind of lust satisfaction) so the tests I typically receive in dreams are to do with lust temptations

I noticed that these can be divided into different 'types' for me. These are:
1. I would get seduced by a 'hot' woman or two into actually having sex with them, and I give in.
2. I would be seduced by a 'loving' woman (usually plays the role of one of my ex's that I truly loved) into having sex with her, and I might give in or not. I would wake up in the physical feeling very lonely and anxious.
3. I would be seduced by either 'hot' or 'loving' woman but I would not give in, we would only kiss.
4. I would be seduced by either 'hot' or 'loving' woman and I would not give in and I would not even let her kiss me.

These scenarios repeat over and over and over again, my dream log is full of them. Which option I choose during the dream will influnce the next day and the next couple of days in physical reality (eg: when I go for option '4' the next couple of days I am full of energy and motivation; if I give in to option '1' the next couple of days I fluctuate with anxiety and worry in physical reality)

Now, these tests are spilling out into my 'trips' (lucid dreams/phase's), I am receiving the same tests and keep failing over and over (its hard to resist 2 super hot women especially who are also lovely and friendly to you - in a lucid dream, especially if you are only semi-lucid; now no wonder I fail such dreams if I am not lucid at all but simply going with the flow. This is teaching me I need to develop a stronger 'intent' not to give during physical days, so that it can then spill into the non-physical life).

Have noticed anything like this in your life, like a connection between dream and physical experiences?

Thank you guys, I'l get back to the Moen's books I downloaded but haven't read yet

As I understand there are at least 3 distinct types of interaction that we face within the wider reality (whether it is via normal dreams, ld's, phase, or whatever entry method we use)

1. Retrievals (we help other energy souls to 'cross over' via an interaction with them, for mutual benefit (they benefit) and we grow via such an interaction)
2. Receiving Lessons (we receive lessons, and these I divide into 2 types: 1) lessons in concepts (eg: downloading 'understanding'), 2) lessons in techniques (I recently had an ld where i asked 'it' (i.e. the wider reality) to give me a meaningful experience and the lesson that followed was mostly about how to 'move' within the wider reality, rather than helping anyone or talking to anyone, it was pure skill based lesson - what I learnt was a sensation which I can focus on next time to faciliate the change/manipulation of the scenery)
3. Giving Lessons (I recently spotted a dream where I was giving a lesson to an audience of maybe about 4 'people' about some concept. It was a normal dream, not an ld.

I wonder how many more styles of interaction go on and with exactly what 'kinds' of energies and from which 'systems'.

The 'lesson' style dreams (the ones where we download 'understanding') seem to take a whole different context than a typical 'dream/ld/phase'. I don't know if anyone else noticed this? Its like in those dreams/sessions there is almost no scenery, no objects to look upon, just the entities (not even as 'people' but you just as 'presence') and an information flowing back and forth - like a long detailed conversation.

If you become aware of this as you are falling asleep or waking up, there will be no scenery or anything, just lots of information going back and forth from you towards others, questions and answers and so on. Has anyone else noticed that, or noticed anything different?

I also recently realised that we don't need to phase to request and download 'understanding', we can do it via a creative activity, such as writing, painting, writing poetry. Especially if the mind is relaxed. Simply throwing a question out there and silently waiting for thoughts to appear that would answer it. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. I guess it depends how still the mind is, how experienced the person is. Does anyone else use anything similar to 'download' information?
I guess parallel processing kicks in with this.

Has anyone else noticed something like this in your experiences? Anything else to add?

Szaxx, you seem like a seasoned pro!
There is much use for people like you, have you thought about writing a book? With your experience, it would be a hit.

I recently read a book by an artist he was lucid dreaming all the time, and wrote a book about what he discovered on his trips, it was quite interesting, he also has videos on youtube (he has a strange name, Sjorb or something)

Guys, I'm starting to think that we don't only play a role in retrieving during conscious acting (lucid dreaming, phasing, obe-ing), but they also take place during normal dreams (when we are not lucid, or when we might be semi-lucid).

On number of ocassions I had dreams which were very deviated from a 'normal dream' scenario (I usually record around 8 or so dreams per night at high detail so I know my dreams pretty well (the repeating scenes, themes, emotions, personalities, etc. So when anything happens which is not 'normal' it sticks out immediately)

2 examples of normal dreams come to mind:

One was a dream about a little girl. The entire atmosphere was very grey and dark, it was night time, the girl was standing in the middle of the road (where cars drive, modern time). I approached her with a 'friend' (whoever, I don't recall any detail but the presence) and we told the girl that she will have to come with us now. She said 'But what about mommy (or something like that'. I said to her ''You will see them in time, but not for a while now, you need to simply come with us now''. And she got into our car and we drove off from the scene with her in the back, my 'friend' by my side and I don't remember which one of us was driving.  = Now this is screaming 'retrieval' for me, the girl might have been hit by a car or something, the entire atmosphere is very dark/cold/hazy.

Second example a few nights ago. To cut the long story short, I am sitting in a room, again with a 'friend' being present and I can't see this friend or say anything about them, I simply recall them being there, and I'm in a high storey worn out building, everything in modern time. On the bed next to me is sitting a man in his underpants and he is seriously sad about something. I understand he had an alcoholic problem and he tells me how he screwed everything up in life (he starts telling me about how he messed up his friendship with his brother, etc). At this point I don't know what to do, so I simply put my left hand around him (I'm sitting by his side) and he starts sobbing into me, I feel his sorrow.

Oh, and another example just popped in. This was during a long phase during the day. I was in a place akin to a coffee shop and there was a girl infront of me. Her head had the shape of a TV (in a bit you'l understand why). Around us were 'people' but I could not see them, I simply knew they were there all watching us and listening to me. I don't want to pull out my dream log now, but this is in essence what happened: I was talking to her and I said that I can show her what happened by introducing her to 'them' and that 'they' will explain it to her. What I did next was to focus on her head tv and I flew into the darkness in it. Everything went completely dark. Next thing I know I felt something I never felt before, it was a feeling like I exploded, it was so powerful that it hurt and I started choking in the dream (Like I exploded into millions of pieces in this darkness). It really freaked me out. Then I returned into the coffee shop and continued talking to her. Her head was no longer TV, it was now bandaged all over. Next thing she says is that 'they' explained everything to her. Now I ask her ''Who they? I didn't see anyone? I simply exploded in darkness''. She says that she spoke to ''them''. Then I start to unbandage her head and find out she has like a kind of pipe/nail thing that went into her head. Again, this was a very long phase for me, to cut it short, this girl was seriously insecure about her head as she started telling me that she feels ugly because of her head etc (hence she didn't want to show it to me and projected a TVhead instead), and I then had to reassure her that this was not the case that she was still beautiful and so on.


This brings me onto 3 questions, that I need your thoughts on:

1. Retrievals happen during normal dreams. All my dream logs point strongly in that direction. It points that if people simply log in their dreams and start to get to know their dreams soon enough they will begin to understand which ones could be retrieval dreams. What are your thoughts on this?

2. This brings us onto 2nd point. What other type of 'learning experiences' do we have out there? We know we have one type which we call 'Retrievals' and the aim of that type is to help another soul 'cross over', but what other types exist? Looking at my dream logs there are certainly different themes going on and repeating themselves over and over, with just different scenery and different 'players' in them, but the themes stay the same. I don't know what the themes are pointing towards. Any ideas what else we do in the greater reality?

3. On some phase trips somehow we know how to do things that nobody taught us or that we did not read about in the physical reality (eg: the stuff I do in some of my trips I understand nobody taught me, I simply know 'how' to do it when the moment comes (eg: I fly into people, I use other tricks to keep scenery from fluctuating or to return into previous scene and so on). On other phase trips we feel like we are just like in the physical reality (i.e. we seem to know only what we know and not more of it, this is the majority of my trips I'd say). Has anyone experienced this? What exactly is going on? Can we tap into the 'higher' knowledge and with what tricks?

Szaxx, do you have an online diary/log/journal where you post your astral adventures?

Szaxx, you interested in which part the 'occult training routines' for phasing/projecting or the parallel existence of being here and there as talked about by Tom?

If its the latter, Tom speaks about it in his videos a lot, and I'm still going through his book, but he does not say how it is done. However, I looked into it and I think I understand how Rob trained them, based on what Tom says in his videos. This is what I think happened:

Tom says that Rob would get them into the little cubicles and there would be a microphone hanging right above Tom's mouth and Tom would have to say every single thing he experienced and noticed EXACTLY WHEN he experienced and noticed it. He re-emphasized this by saying Rob would not allow him to simply go and then return and write down whatever he remembered, he had to speak while he was experiencing things. This made him develop parallel processing as he calls it.

Thus what I think they did is basically a guided visualisation (guided by their own mind at first just like Frank teaches us, but then it becomes 'alive/real') they simply keep saying out loud (but quite gently so they do not disturb the peaceful state) whatever they see. Overtime they develop the ability to go 'there' simply by thinking about it.

In occult schools this is trained a couple of steps up from the very basic training, where the person is taught how to visualise so concretely that he can literally see the object infront of him even if his eyes are wide open. The object then appears as a hallucination infront of the person.

Then the person can create an entire scene like this and be in the  physical room, yet at the same time actually be in the 'scene' that he created with his imagination, and move through that scene by using the intent. It is just a matter of practice over and over and over. Now to do this with eyes open is pretty neat, but it is much easier to do it with eyes closed - as I understand, this is exactly what Tom did at first, what Frank did, what Rob did, and what everyone seems to be doing. With eyes closed is also the way the occult schools teach this method at first, only later they teach it with eyes open.

Now there are many different schools in occult and they teach many different things, this is just based on what I understand about it.

So basically, as I understand it the occult schools teach pretty much the same 'result' as the Rob Monroe schools (up to a certain point), the only difference is 'how' it is taught. The occult schools usually have pretty hardcore routines and details to 'help' reach the state/skill faster (the so called 'formulas' where the person combines as many different things together as possible to help them progress - eg: Phase out in the morning hours (aka Brahma hour) + vegetarian diet + no alcohol, and it gets more progressive). You see even Frank at first said that he didn't believe in chakras etc, but then he started to change his mind as he begun to understand that things like 'chakras' (taught in occult schools) can be very useful tools if used accordingly, just like meditation is a useful tool in the physical reality, and so on.

If that helps in any way

: )

By the way this forum is amazing!
I have been lurking it for quite some time now quietly in the background and learnt a huge deal, Frank has been an inspiration, Lionheart has been an inspiration, Xanth has been of great guidance, Andrew is a legend for organising and keeping it all together, and everyone else who is involved with this forum - thank you all for this, it is a wonderful resource, very helpful and motivational!

Now that I got bored with lurking, it's time to do the talking...to help me with my 'walking'

: )