Messages

Thanks so much, Frank.  I'll let you know how it goes.  I feel like I have a starting point now, whereas I've been jumping all over the place and getting nowhere.  I totally identify with the eyes thing...mine really get in the way.

Thanks again.

Giselle

Looks like Frank has already addressed what I'm asking in the thread on Phasing, Noticing and Hypnogogic.  

This is exactly what goes on with me...quoting Frank,  "At first, people close their eyes and all they see is blackness. Unfortunately, this can put people off thinking they are never going to do it. When I close my eyes all I see is blackness at first. But if people learn to actually notice what is taking place they may see that one area of black is not quite so black as the rest. Then they may kind of sense something. Then there might be a little fleeting something or other that just passed by."

Looks like I need to start noticing more and looking inward.  Could it be that I'm letting trying to do a mental rundown get in the way of noticing what is going on??

I'm going back to read what you wrote a few more times, Frank.  

Giselle

I'm open to any suggestions anyone may have to help me move forward.

I became interested in this subject a couple of years ago and attended the Monroe Gateway program.  This was my introduction into focus levels and I wasn't really sure at that time if I was "getting" it.  To this day most of my "sessions" are spent in complete darkness.  I don't see the colors people talk about and do not get images.  It seems there is "activity" going on just out of my reach however..stuff I can't seem to focus in on.  During Gateway there were a couple of times when I had mental conversations either with myself or other mental voices (thoughts) out of the darkness came away with what I thought were profound ideas.  Enough to make me know I didn't want to stop my journey.  A year later I attended Lifelines at Monroe and this time I didn't feel that I reached any of the focus levels past, perhaps 10 or 12.  I really enjoyed the program, however, because of the experiences others were having and sharing.

During this past year I've been focusing on having an OBE with no success whatsoever.  In reading Franks writings I've decided to concentrate on phasing because it just rings true to me.  So this is where I am now.    It's extremely difficult for me to visualize. (I used to try the rope technique, but just couldn't get my mind around it.)   When I try visualizing myself jumping on a trampoline, for example, I find myself trying very hard to "see" it and it feels that I am staying too aware and not able to get caught up in it and before long, I've given up and my mind has gone to trying something else.  

I'm not even sure I know what I'm asking here...maybe some input on how to let go of consciously trying so hard.  I seem to go from aware and conscious to asleep with no time in between...even when I sit up and try during the day.  

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Giselle

Maybe you'll feel a little better to know you are not alone in this.  I've been trying for over a year with almost no results.  I've been thinking lately it's probably because I subconsciously expect to fail at it.  

I've bought the book "Mastering Astral Projection" and will use the affirmations regularly.  Maybe they can overcome this subconscious programming I have.

Also, I've only been trying at night because that's about the only time I seem to get the opportunity to meditate and usually fall asleep too quickly.  So, I've also decided that since this is really important to me, I'm going to MAKE the time on the weekends during the day.

Maybe if you think about what it is you're doing that might be sabotaging your progress, you can make some changes and keep trying.

I've been tempted to throw in the towel, but I keep telling myself that if others can do it, so can I.  Now I've got to make myself believe that.

I vote you hang in there and don't give up.

Giselle

I think it might help you to start off by using "guided meditations" on CD with headphones.   Buying the CD would be the start.  Then after you buy it, you'll want to listen to it.  After the guided meditations you can try meditational music.  Do this for a while and soon, I think, you will be able to sit and try to meditate on your own.  

I don't think it's so much not being able to start, but maybe not knowing what to do when you do start.  The CD's will help get you into the meditation habit and the right frame of mind.

When you start meditating on your own, without the CD's, you might try using a mantra.  It can be any word, really, that you repeat over and over in your mind which will help block other thoughts from entering.  Focusing on your breathing and counting your breaths does the same thing.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts that might help you get started.

Giselle

I have not had much luck with brainwave recordings and suspect the problem is that I'm using inferior headphones.  Do any of you have a recommendation about what kind of headphone I should buy?

Thanks.

Giselle

I've been trying to have an OBE for several months now.  I've been meditating regularly and doing a lot of reading on the subject.  I feel that I'm making progress, though not anything tangible.  I'm one of those people that fall asleep very easily and I usually wind up falling asleep quickly when I meditate.  My dreams have become a lot more vivid and I am remembering them better.  A few nights ago something happened that I really didn't think had any connection with OBE, but as I've been thinking about it...I wonder.  So, I'd like to know what some of you think.

Basically, I was having a dream (now I can't remember it and I did not write anything down)...but in the dream I remember I was spinning around and was feeling nauseous at which point it's as if I made myself wake up and when I did, I felt as if the room was spinning around and I was extremely nauseous for about 15 minutes.  FYI - I get motion sicknes very easily.  My interpretation at the time was that I was having a dream and was feeling psysically ill which manifested itself in my dream and I woke up.  But, I might have projected and not realized it.  The spinning feeling after I woke up was very strong...worse than any spinning I've felt when I've, um, been somewhat inebriated in the past.

I'd love to have your input.

Giselle

Beyonder, I used this analogy based on the well-known folklore about the bumble bee not being able to fly.  It was merely an attempt at a little humor.  I realize that bumble bees actually can fly.  Now I'm wondering if maybe you are too young to have heard the story of the bumble bee.  So I'm posting a synopsis for anyone who has not heard this often quoted piece of unscientific trivia:

Flight of the Bumblebee
"Like the bumblebee, they said it could never fly."

This statement appears in a recent issue of Popular Science, starting off an article about drag racing.

Indeed, the venerable line about scientists having proved that a bumblebee can't fly appears regularly in magazine and newspaper stories. It's also the kind of item that's bound to come up in a cocktail party conversation when the subject turns to science or technology.

Often, the statement is made in a distinctly disparaging tone aimed at putting down those know-it-all scientists and engineers who are so smart yet can't manage to understand something that's apparent to everyone else.

Obviously, bumblebees can fly. On the average, a bumblebee travels at a rate of 3 meters per second, beating its wings 130 times per second. Quite respectable for the insect world.

So, how did this business of proving that a bumblebee can't fly originate? Who started the story?

It apparently first surfaced in Germany in the 1930s, and the story was about a prominent Swiss aerodynamicist. One evening at dinner, the researcher happened to be talking to a biologist, who asked about the flight of bees. To answer the biologist's query, the Swiss engineer did a quick "back-of-the-napkin" calculation.

To keep things simple, he assumed a rigid, smooth wing, estimated the bee's weight and wing area, and calculated the lift generated by the wing. Not surprisingly, there was insufficient lift. That was about all he could do at a dinner party. The detailed calculations had to wait.

To the biologist, however, the aerodynamicist's initial failure was sufficient evidence of the superiority of nature to mere engineering. The story spread, told from the biologist's point of view, and it wasn't long before it started to appear in magazine and newspaper articles.

Unfortunately, the wrong lesson emerged from the story. The real issue is not that scientists are wrong but that there's a crucial difference between a thing and a mathematical model of the thing.

The distinction between mathematics and the application of mathematics often isn't made as clearly as it ought to be. In the mathematics classroom, it's important to distinguish between getting the mathematics right and getting the problem right. It's quite possible, for instance, to calculate correctly the area of a rectangular piece of property just by multiplying the length times the width. Yet one can get the "wrong answer" because the measurements of the length and width were inaccurate or there was some ambiguity about the boundaries.

The word problems typically found in textbooks also serve as rudimentary models of reality. Their applicability, however, depends on the validity of the assumptions that underlie the mathematics.

So no one "proved" that a bumblebee can't fly. What was shown was that a certain simple mathematical model wasn't adequate or appropriate for describing the flight of a bumblebee. Insect flight and wing movements can be quite complicated. Wings aren't rigid. They bend and twist. Stroke angles change.

Yet the myth persists that science says a bumblebee can't fly. This tale has taken on a life of its own as a piece of "urban folklore" on the Internet, passed on from one browser to another.

Copyright © 1997 by Ivars Peterson.

_____

Life is too short to take it too seriously.  (Also not scientific)

Giselle

I experience the tenseness in my shoulders and upper back also.  I believe it's because I am so focused on rising UP that my physical body responds.  I think it's a result of trying too hard to project.  

G

Hmmmmm....I wonder if the bumble bee flies because it believes it can...or if it believes it can fly because it does.

Just thinking out loud.

Giselle

Hi fun,
I'm not the one that can tell you if it sounds like a projection, because I haven't had one yet.  I think I'm about at the point you are, because for a few seconds the other day I had the definite feeling that I was floating up.  It didn't last, but it encouraged me because I feel that I am getting closer.  I definitely think you are too.

Giselle

Woooo Hoooooo!  My headphones just arrived.  (Got a really good deal on the Internet.)

Can't wait to try them.

Giselle

Kewel [8D]!!!!!!!!  (Cool, for those of you who are not Southerners)

From what I've read about these, they should be great...and comfortable.

Giselle

Thanks, y'all.  I think I must be wearing "crap," Major Tom.  I've been using the $20 variety.

So, I'm investing in some good headphones to see if it makes a difference...got the Sennheiser 555.  And, even if it really doesn't make a difference, it might if I think it will.  Right?

I'll let you know.

Giselle

[xx(] EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.  This is hard!

I crash right of the bat usually.  My top score so far hasn't gone over 300!

Maybe I should be glad I haven't been able to project yet....I'd crash land immediately.

Giselle

If we get "Biblical" about it...I believe that's one of the reasons God destroyed the world with the flood in Noah's day...to eliminate the sons & daughters of the fallen angels.  So, if this theory is supported by the Bible, then all the giants were destroyed and we do not have any decendants of theirs on earth today.  

Now I'm reminded why I'm on this quest to begin with... a search for truth.  Boy, can it get confusing.

Giselle

I hope this isn't true!  I'm so jealous if it is, because then I think I may be one of those regular humans who will NEVER be able tp project.  I've been trying for quite a while, to no avail.  

Someone tell me it isn't so.

Giselle

Thanks so much.  I'll definitely check out these links today.

Giselle