Messages

Quite honestly Gandalf, I don't know what astral projection is or how it is done. If you remember, way back when, I was invited to these boards by a user who had a revelation of Christ while taking part in a Shaman ritual.

Er, okay so he had a revelation in a shaman ritual, so did he get any revelation of Christ in a church ritual...?

I was lucky enough and saw the solar Christ after falling asleep in my house after chanting Hindu mantras...so any doubt on whether or not Jesus actually became the "Christ" or resurrected became erased.  So I always pay my respects to all these immortals.  Since Christ is relatively easy to see, it means he is the most easily pleased of all dieties and is willing to help you in every way to go higher...so I guess you can say he is one of my "gurus"...

Getting a revelation simply means that your spiritual method is good enough to purify you to have visions of immortals,angels, boddhisatvas  etc. but again visions are very basic, you have to continue...it also has nothing to do with following any specific religion. If you get caught up in "OOH I SAW CHRIST, HALLELUJAH! " than that's the end of your spiritual progress.  

Again, I'm not against followers of Christ and his true teachings, but evangelists, now they are another story.

kalratri,

You WERE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Are you even interested in finding the truth or are you just trying to win an argument?

I know in the neo-religious traditions of the middle east, you are supposed turn off your brain and just believe, but that's not the eastern way.  You must not just read, you must also have correct understanding.

But it seems you are not after the truth, but simply after continuing to believe what you believe.

You claimed Jesus claimed the sole mantel of being the son of God.
Again, you are twisting what I have said. Anyone can go back and look at what I have posted. I clearly stated that the Bible does use "sons of God" in reference to men and angels. I also clearly stated that the phrase "Son of God" carries a very different connotation when applied to Christ. This is something that one could easily find out with some studying.

You clearly stated this AFTER I had to find the exact verse.  And again, Jesus who attained the Christ hood, did NOT redefine the "son of God" title, he claimed he was GOD.  That is the difference and that is why it is said that the "sons of God" will die like men, but those who follow his path will be everliving...i.e. immortal.

Perhaps I should put it this way: Jesus is the "one and only" Son of God, the "only begotten" Son.

There you again.  First of all, Jesus was not THE son of God, he claimed he was "ONE WITH THE FATHER" or one with God, that is why he is beyond other "sonS of God".  Second of all, Jesus said that the son of God is not exclusive and he was NOT the only son of God, sons of God are mortal and die like men, but since he became one with God he was immortal.
Thirdly, the claim of being "ONE WITH GOD" or "ONE WITH THE WAY" is largely found in eastern traditions from Hinduism to Taoism. So the church is wrong once again, since thousands upon thousands of people besides Jesus have become "ONE WITH GOD"....So Jesus is not the ONLY one.  The concept of Avatars, or "God becoming flesh" is quite ancient.

Shame on you! Hindus and Buddhists have libraries and libraries of revealed scripture AND YOU GUYS HAVE ONE BITTY BOOK and you can't even understand one little book properly.

So what? What is your point (besides showing your poor reasoning)?
[/quote]

I'm just amazed that you and many other evangelists keep saying the same things even after you are wrong...

[I am]

kalratri,

m, now atleast I got you to admit that there's more than one of son of God...I'm getting there...better than before...

You're getting nowhere actually. Do not misconstrue what I say to fit what you believe. I made it clear that although the phrase "sons of God" is used of humans, it has a very different connotation than the phrase "Son of God" as it pertains to Jesus.

I don't miscontrue anything, YOU WERE WRONG AND SCRIPTURES PROVED IT.  Jesus claimed to be the highest attainer amongst the Jews, BUT DID NOT DENY THAT THERE WERE OTHER SONS OF GOD.  You WERE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.  You claimed Jesus claimed the sole mantel of being the son of God.

Now of course, Jesus said nothing of the sort that he is greater, he simply said "before Abraham was I"... in other words he attained higher than the founder of the Jews and ishmaelis, Abraham
You're twisting what the Bible says. Jesus clearly says "before Abraham was I am." As I pointed out earlier, the phrase "I am" is comes from Exodus 3:14:

"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"" ''

 Hindus and Buddhists have libraries and libraries of revealed scripture AND YOU GUYS HAVE ONE BITTY BOOK and you can't even understand one little book properly.  
Yahweh can mean several things including   " I will become who I will become"...Now that doesn't fit in too neatly with what Jesus said , now does it?

And you said you study?

Jesus is clearly using the name of God, which the Jews would have recognized, to make the distinction between the previous temporary existence of Abraham and his own eternal pre-existance. Jesus is God in the flesh, so only he can make such a claim. The Jews recognized this as claiming equality with God and picked up stones to stone Jesus.

Jews were NEVER expecting a man to claim YAHWEH (GOD)status.  THAT WAS NOT A PART OF JEWISH TRADITION.  They were expecting someone like King David to rule Israel.   SURPRISE!  Jews to this day don't except Jesus as the Messiah.

Now please tell me where the BIble says "I and the father are one" from Jewish scriptures...that's a VERY HINDU THING TO SAY>..


Just because it appears to be something similar to something a Hindu would say doesn't mean that he was teaching Hindu philosophy.

Oh I agree, but just because he wasn't teaching Hindu philosophy doesn't mean he wasn't indirectly influenced by it.  Hindu influence, as well as Egyptian, Roman etc. influence was quite strong in the middle east as it was the international cultural/trade capital in those days.  I simply stated Hindu and other religous influence was there from the beginning.  JESUS DIDN"T NEED TO GO TO INDIA.

I said that the Jews recognized Jesus' statement of equality with God. They recognized that he was claiming to be God, that is, Yahweh and so they accused him of blasphemy.

Yes and it was blasphemous according to Jewish tradition where being a son of God is acceptable, but GOD?  No.

If you're not going to bother studying something that you seem to think you know lots about, then I'm not going to help you. Either study up on what I suggested or your opinion on the matter is useless.
SO WAS JESUS A HINDU THEN TO DARE TO CLAIM ONENESS WITH GOD?

Not at all, that is absurd. His teachings fly in the face of Hinduism. Jesus, being the Jewish Messiah, claimed to be one in essence and nature with God, that is, God in the flesh.

Oh really? Could that be the Avatar concept of Hinduism? Now take your own advice and study a little before you make comments that display your gross ignorance and lack of knowledge of history and world religion.

[I am]

kalratri,

m, now atleast I got you to admit that there's more than one of son of God...I'm getting there...better than before...

You're getting nowhere actually. Do not misconstrue what I say to fit what you believe. I made it clear that although the phrase "sons of God" is used of humans, it has a very different connotation than the phrase "Son of God" as it pertains to Jesus.

I don't miscontrue anything, YOU WERE WRONG AND SCRIPTURES PROVED IT.  Jesus claimed to be the highest attainer amongst the Jews, BUT DID NOT DENY THAT THERE WERE OTHER SONS OF GOD.  You WERE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.  You claimed Jesus claimed the sole mantel of being the son of God.

Now of course, Jesus said nothing of the sort that he is greater, he simply said "before Abraham was I"... in other words he attained higher than the founder of the Jews and ishmaelis, Abraham
You're twisting what the Bible says. Jesus clearly says "before Abraham was I am." As I pointed out earlier, the phrase "I am" is comes from Exodus 3:14:

"God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"" ''

Shame on you!  Hindus and Buddhists have libraries and libraries of revealed scripture AND YOU GUYS HAVE ONE BITTY BOOK and you can't even understand one little book properly.  
Yahweh, the divine name actually means , " I will be who I will be"...

And you said you study?

Jesus is clearly using the name of God, which the Jews would have recognized, to make the distinction between the previous temporary existence of Abraham and his own eternal pre-existance. Jesus is God in the flesh, so only he can make such a claim. The Jews recognized this as claiming equality with God and picked up stones to stone Jesus.

Jews were NEVER expecting a man to claim YAHWEH (GOD)status.  THAT WAS NOT A PART OF JEWISH TRADITION.  They were expecting someone like King David to rule Israel.   SURPRISE!  Jews to this day don't except Jesus as the Messiah.

Now please tell me where the BIble says "I and the father are one" from Jewish scriptures...that's a VERY HINDU THING TO SAY>..


Just because it appears to be something similar to something a Hindu would say doesn't mean that he was teaching Hindu philosophy.

Oh I agree, but just because he wasn't teaching Hindu philosophy doesn't mean he wasn't indirectly influenced by it.  Hindu influence, as well as Egyptian, Roman etc. influence was quite strong in the middle east as it was the international cultural/trade capital in those days.  I simply stated Hindu and other religous influence was there from the beginning.  JESUS DIDN"T NEED TO GO TO INDIA.

I said that the Jews recognized Jesus' statement of equality with God. They recognized that he was claiming to be God, that is, Yahweh and so they accused him of blasphemy.

Yes and it was blasphemous according to Jewish tradition where being a son of God is acceptable, but GOD?  No.

If you're not going to bother studying something that you seem to think you know lots about, then I'm not going to help you. Either study up on what I suggested or your opinion on the matter is useless.
SO WAS JESUS A HINDU THEN TO DARE TO CLAIM ONENESS WITH GOD?

Not at all, that is absurd. His teachings fly in the face of Hinduism. Jesus, being the Jewish Messiah, claimed to be one in essence and nature with God, that is, God in the flesh.

Oh really? Could that be the Avatar concept of Hinduism? Now take your own advice and study a little before you make comments that display your gross ignorance and lack of knowledge of history and world religion.

Exothen,


Hmm, now atleast I got you to admit that there's more than one of son of God...I'm getting there...better than before...

Now of course, Jesus said  simply'before Abraham was I"... in other words he attained higher than the founder of the Jews and ishmaelis, Abraham...So I never disagreed, Jesus attained higher than other descendants of the Adam...(there are non-Adamic humans more ancient, Aryans are one of them)

Third, the Bible does refer to men as "sons of God" or in this case just "gods," but only of rulers, kings, and judges. This is only because they are appointed by God to rule and judge. The Jews knew this and seemed to have no problem with it.

No SOME of the jews seem only to have a problem when the Roman Emperor who ruled an empire vaster than any Jewish king or anyone else call themselves Gods or sons of Gods...

Fourth, the problem arises when Jesus says that he is the Son of God. The Jews knew that Jesus was claiming equality with God, as seen in the context of John 10:

Joh 10:30  I and the Father are one."
Joh 10:31  The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32  Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?"
Joh 10:33  The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God."

Now please tell me where the BIble says "I and the father are one" from Jewish scriptures...that's a VERY HINDU THING TO SAY>..

The phrase "Son of God" carries a much different connotation and weight when used of Jesus instead of mere men.

Nah, you're just making that up...you're saying Jesus was a blasphemer AND Jewish ---one of them is wrong.  Either Jesus wasn't Jewish since he goes further and actually says he is one with God, a very Hindu thing to say or he's Jewish and refuses to claim such a "blasphemous" thing.  Which one is it?

A few more: "Ye are the children of the Lord." Deut 14:1 "And (God) will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." II Cor 6:18 "Ye are sons of the Living God." Hosea 1:10 To Solomon God said: "He shall be my son and I will be his Father." I Chron 22:10.

Exactly. And this supports what I quoted from John 1:12. Only those who believe have the right to become sons and daughters of God. Believers are said to be co-heirs with Christ. Every verse you gave pertains to either the Jews and/or followers of Christ.

But again according to Jews, Christ went too far, ... so he wasn't Jewish any more now was he and if he had a virgin birth, his father wasn't Jewish either as many Jews to this day attack...again to claim one is "ONE WITH GOD" is an eastern, a HINDU concept not supported by semitic religions.  SO WAS JESUS A HINDU THEN TO DARE TO CLAIM ONENESS WITH GOD?

 and please do tell me where you find returning hate with kindness in Jewish scriptures?...loving compassion are Buddhist concepts.  To deny major eastern influence in the middle east is akin to the same claim made by some others that Jesus went to India.  The fact that Hindu kings ruled some major kingdoms in the middle east from the time of Moses is enough to suffice.  Besides the fact that BUddhist missionaries were sent to the middle east during the reign of Indian Emperor Ashoka.  To deny such historical evidence is just as silly.

Of course the RUMOR that every prophet starting from Moses somehow went to India is quite old and generally it is pushed by non-Indians...in the  book called "The Kuzari" about some Rabbi in the 8th century who converted King Bulan to Judaism and his arguments...in which the Jewish Rabbi gives an "analogy" of Jewish prophets going to India, where the King of India is likened to God himself

first essay, 109-5:

We site the following analogy: a group of kinsmen became stranded in the
desert.  One of them found his way to India.  He was received by the king of
India with honor and greatness, because the king realized that he was a
member of the group, and that the father of this group used to be one of the
kings close friends.  The king gave him precious gifts to bring back to his
kinsmen in the desert.  He also dressed him in beautiful clothing and sent
along with him some of his distinguished attendants.  It never would have
occurred to anyone that these important attendants would ever depart from
the king, and certainly not that they should travel to the desert.  The king
charged the man w/ a set of commands and made a pact with him to pledge
fealty to the king.  The man then traveled back to his kinsmen in the desrt,
accompanied by the Indian representatives.  His friends were overjoyed upon
the arrrival of this entourage, and they built a palace for these
distinguished attendants to live in.  The rest of the group then sent a
delegation back to India to see the king.  They were now able to reach India
w/o any trouble through the help of the king's representatives, who showed
them the closest and straightest path.  It was then that they realized that
it is in reality quite easy for anyone who so desires to reach India, as
long as he commits himself to the service of the king and appropriately
honor's the kings messengers when they are sent to him.   The had no reason
to question the need to serve the king, because  it was obvious to all that
the purpose was to become close to the king, and closeness to the king was
the greatest good.

[6] In this parable, the group of kinsmen are the jewish people.  The first
of them who went to India is Moses.  The subsequent delagator is the rest of
the Jewish prophets.  The Indian representatives of the king are the divine
presence and the angels.  The beautiful clothing is the spiritual light taht
rested upon Moses soul as a result of his prophcies as well as the physical
light taht radiated from his face.  The precious gifts sent by the king are
the 2 tablets that contained the 10 commandments.    

Okay, quotation time Exothen:

1) Churchianity claims Christ is THE ONLY son of God, here is what Jesus the Christ said:

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken:do ye say of him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am Son of God?" (Darby Translation)


Here are more old testament translations:

A few more: "Ye are the children of the Lord." Deut 14:1 "And (God) will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." II Cor 6:18 "Ye are sons of the Living God." Hosea 1:10 To Solomon God said: "He shall be my son and I will be his Father." I Chron 22:10.


So I guess you can follow an apostle of Christ, or Christ himself.  The choice is yours.

But this is not based on any evidence. The only reason for this false argument is to try and make the Qur'an equal with the Bible. But since the Bible came 600 years before the Qur'an and refutes it, the Qur'an is not Scripture.

Actually the idea that the New Testament that we have today is authentic and proven valid is not based on any evidence. The New Testament has no chain of narrations which lead back to Jesus (peace be upon him.)

The Quran too was written or put to paper AFTER Mohammad died.  How do you know it too was not altered?  Transmission of most religious texts which was based on memory is probably flawed to some extent.

People hurting people ON PURPOSE using black magic or demons or by witchcraft, definately does go against most religons.


People should try to distinguish what the church thinks about Jesus as opposed to what Jesus taught and Jesus before his crucifixion and Jesus after his crucifixion.

Whatever Jesus' failings before the crucifixion, was purified upon crucifixion.  

Jesus still had a pure heart, only someone with a pure heart can attain to such powers, and so yes I am pro-Jesus .  

His voluntary crucifixion is an inspirational story about human suffering, death and immortality, and is ONE of the stories that has inspired me during my darkest hours, whenever I feel like giving up (I'm dealing with my own witches).  Of course I have a bias towards him since he gave me a vision of himself...

kalratri,

Jesus was the first of the Adamic race to attain to becoming a son of God

I disagree. He was the Son of God prior to coming in human flesh; he was not a regular human who attained any higher level of spirituality. He was God in the flesh, God Incarnate.

I agree with this point, since he had an extraordinary birth.  He was a natural, an evolved spirit. But even those kind of spirits forget they are like God and have human doubts that need a teacher to dispel, in this case John the Baptist.

You forget, Mary was only human, it was her faith that gave her Jesus.

you can still be a part of your religion and be spiritual.  Religion is something that teaches basic spirituality, like prayer, incantations...once you have mastered those than you can decide if that religion can take you any farther.  The only thing messed up with the Abrahamic faiths are teh evangelicals who insist only their religion is true.

Before you do abstract art, it is better to learn how to draw first. But that's just my 2 cents worth...

kalratri,

Jesus was the first of the Adamic race to attain to becoming a son of God

I disagree. He was the Son of God prior to coming in human flesh; he was not a regular human who attained any higher level of spirituality. He was God in the flesh, God Incarnate.

'
Here I would have to disagree with CHURCHIANITY, as opposed to what Christ himself stated.

 He said you can insult Jesus the man, but NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT.  He called himself "son of God" a blasphemy in "synogoguanity", but reminded the Jews that the Bible states , WE ARE ALL SONS OF GOD (ben elohim) and that we all have the power to attain Christhood... I hope I don't have to post the exact scriptural passage.  Jesus became the Christ and he said through the great Christ all pervading spirit, you too can become an immortal by following his path.

St. Paul redefines Christhood in yin/yang terms (where there is no more Jew/gentile or opposites), another very strong influence from the east.

he also said we are all sons/daughters of God and it is not a sin to say that you are. you should not take that away from him.

The sense in which the Bible refers to humans as sons of God is very different from the sense in which Jesus is referred to as the Son of God. Sons/daughters of God are only those who accept Christ that are sons/daughters of God:

John 1:12, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name."

HIM, that is not Jesus the man (he himself said you can insult me, but not the Holy spirit), it was Jesus who is the Christ all pervading spirit.  That holy spirit gives the right to all to be sons and daughters of God.  
Churchianity generally confuses Jesus the Man with Jesus the Christ.  Once Jesus became the Christ, one cannot say what became of Jesus.

This verse also shows that becoming a son/daughter of God is not something that we can attain on our own.

And Jesus was not influenced by Buddhism; his teachings run very contrary to Buddhism and other eastern religions.

[/quote]

Jesus the Man didn't attain it on his own either, he himself gave credit to John the Baptist for what he became.

For further influence, Saint Barlaam and Joshaphat was actually the story of the Buddha, he literallly became a Christian saint and was cannonized in the Catholic church.


As I said, people were not isolated, everyone influenced everyone else, for anyone to say that somehow "Adamic" religions are without influence is silly.  I guess for evangelists, if you except influence, than you cannot go around calling other peoples "sons of God" demons now can you?

What about Moses(peace be upon him)? Did he travel to India and learn how to part the Red sea? lol.

Bless evangelicals.  I come here not to insult any great sages of any tradition,but rather take their blessings or curses as they see fit.  I do believe that ALL of humanity creates great sages, and it is the influence of all of humanity that refines our minds and methods that creates THE ONE.  

Of course, with that being said and having taken the blessings of all sages, the Old testament is also known as the 5 books of Moses, Moses was said to be adopted by the Pharoah of Egypt around 1500 bce -- guess what Indians were there TOO


Mitanni
Mitanni in the news

The Mitanni were a people of Indic origin who ruled a vast kingdom (with a common Hurrian population) in West Asia in the second millennium BC. Mitanni arose near the sources of the Khabur River in Mesopotamia sometime after 1500 BC. It was a feudal state led by a warrior nobility. The kingdom ruled northern Mesopotamia (including Syria) for about 300 years, out of their capital of Washshukanni, (or Wassukkani, or Vasukhani, meaning "a mine of wealth.") Their warriors were called marya, which is the proper Sanskrit term for it.

By approximately 1350 BC, the Mitanni kingdom had weakened, and had become practically dependent on the Hittites, then under the rule of Shuppiluliuma I. Assyria, previously under Mitanni control, was able to assert its independence during the reign of Ashuruballit I in approximately 1330 BC.

They seem to have venerated Vedic deities and their nobility used Indo-Aryan names, and worshipped Indo-Aryan gods. In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni, Indic deities Mitra, Varuna, Indra, and Nasatya (Ashvins) are invoked. A text by a Mitannian named Kikkuli uses words such as aika (eka, one), tera (tri, three), panza (pancha, five), satta (sapta, seven), na (nava, nine), vartana (vartana, round). Another text has babru (babhru, brown), parita (palita, grey), and pinkara (pingala, red). Their chief festival was the celebration of vishuva (solstice) which was common in most cultures in the ancient world. Some people believer that it is not only the kings who had Sanskrit names; a large number of other Sanskrit names have been unearthed in the records from the area; other point out that over interpretation of ancient names is a an issue that must be taken into account.

Chronology of Mitanni rulership
Kirta 1500 BC-1490 BC
Suttarna I 1490 BC-1470 BC
Baratarna 1470 BC-1450 BC
Parsatatar 1450 BC-1440 BC
Saustatar 1440 BC-1410 BC
Artatama 1410 BC-1400 BC
Suttarna II 1400 BC-1385 BC
Artashumara 1385 BC-1380 BC
Tushratta 1380 BC-1350 BC
Mattivaza 1350 BC-1320 BC
Sattuara I 1320 BC-1300 BC
Vashasatta 1300 BC-1280 BC
Sattuara II 1280 BC-1270 BC
The name Sutarna I means ("good sun"). He was followed by Paratarna I ("great sun"), Parashukshatra ("ruler with axe"), Saukshatra ("son of Sukshatra, the good ruler"), Paratarna II, Artatama or Ritadhama ("abiding in cosmic law"), Sutarna II, Dasharatha, and finally Mativaja (Matiwazza, "whose wealth is prayer") during whose lifetime the Mitanni state appears to have become a vassal to Assyria.

The daughter of the King Tushratta (Tushyaratha or Dasharatha), Princess Tadukhipa, became the second queen of Akhenaten; the daughter of King Artatama was married to Thutmose IV, Akhenaten's grandfather; and the daughter of Sutarna II (Gilukhipa) was married to his father, Amenhotep III, the great builder of temples who ruled during 1390-1352 BC ("khipa" of these names is the Sanskrit "kshipa," night). In his old age, Amenhotep wrote to Dasharatha many times wishing to marry his daughter, Tadukhipa. It appears that by the time she arrived Amenhotep III was dead. Tadukhipa married the new king Akhenaten and she became famous as the queen Kiya (short for Khipa).

The miracles that Jesus(peace be upon him) performed do not signify that he was God and they do not signify that he went to India or to some mystics and asked them how to perform such acts. Many prophet performed miracles.

I disagree, Jesus was the first of the Adamic race to attain to becoming a son of God... -- he also said we are all sons/daughters of God and it is not a sin to say that you are. you should not take that away from him.  

And of course he did not need to go to India, Buddhist sages were sent to the middle east as missionaries and had a tremendous amount of influence (as did the Egyptians and other religions)there as they have had a tremendous amount of influence in modern day Europe and America in restarting the meditative teachings.

PS... Krishna parted the Yamuna river when he was just  a wee baby...

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/01.22/01-depression.html

HARVARD GAZETTE ARCHIVES

Depressed get a lift from MRI
Brain scanners please manic-depressives
By William J. Cromie
Harvard News Office

Both the patients and psychiatrists were startled. Manic-depressives undergoing brain scans, not a really pleasant experience, came out of the machine happier than when they went in.

One severely depressed woman left the scanner laughing and joking. It was totally not like her. After a 20-minute scan, another woman happily asked a researcher, "What did you do to me?"

Aimee Parow, the researcher, told Perry Renshaw, director of the Brain Imaging Center at McLean Hospital, a psychiatric affiliate of Harvard Medical School, where the scanning was done. The research team was trying to determine how the brain chemistry of manic-depressives differs from that of people who are free of the problem. Nobody expected to find such a happy result. "It was amazing," Renshaw comments.

He described what happened to Bruce Cohen, president and chief psychiatrist at McLean. "I was excited but skeptical," he recalls. "One part of me said, 'It's unlikely.' But another part said, 'Why not?' People go in and out of depression on their own. Electromagnetic fields generated by the scanner could nudge a depressed brain back toward normal."

It was decided to investigate the surprise further. Under the direction of Michael Rohan, an imaging specialist, 30 people undergoing treatment for manic depression, known as bipolar disorder, were selected for a scanning experiment.

To make sure it was the electromagnetic fields generated by the scanner that were lifting spirits and not other aspects of patient treatment, 10 other patients underwent sham scans for comparison. Finally, to take into account the placebo effect, 14 healthy people were scanned. (The placebo effect causes people to feel better just because they are getting medical attention.)

Twenty-three people with bipolar depression (77 percent) felt better after scanning than before it. Only three (30 percent) of those who received sham scans said they felt better. Four of the healthy comparisons (29 percent) reported that the scans elevated their moods.

Mood improvement

"It's a small and preliminary study based on an accidental discovery," admits Cohen, who is also a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. "But our results suggest that the electric fields produced by certain types of brain scans are associated with mood improvement in people with bipolar disorder."

"We were surprised at our good fortune in discovering this effect, and we are excited about the initial findings," adds Rohan.

The next step is do a larger study to answer such questions as how long the effect lasts, and how such scans make bipolar people happy.

When asked how long the effects of the happy machine lasted, some people said hours, others, days. One woman said she felt better for a week. Cohen says he hopes that a study that yields more definitive results can begin as early as next month. Such experiments should separate the effect of anti-depressant drugs taken by some of the subjects.

The researchers are intrigued by the fact that all of the manic-depressives not on medication responded favorably, as opposed to two-thirds of those taking drugs. Cohen doesn't know why, but he speculates that "medication may reduce the sensitivity of brain cells to the electromagnetic fields. If that turns out to be so, we may be able to raise the intensity of the fields."

The type of scan used is known as Echo-Planer Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopic Imaging, or EP-MRSI. It uses low-intensity magnetic fields to produce three-dimensional images of the brain's chemistry, which reveal various abnormalities in its nerve-cell activity. The specific timing and amplitude of the magnetic pulses induce electric fields that may match the natural electrical firing rhythm of brain cells, Rohan and Cohen speculate.

"The pulses travel from right to left trough a thick cable of nerves that coordinate activity between the two halves of the brain," Cohen explains. The two halves perform different tasks; for example, the right hemisphere is considered more involved in spatial processes like map reading, while the left is more dedicated to logic and language in many people. "In depression, the two halves of the brain may get out of balance, and the electromagnetic pulses may restore the balance," Cohen says.

Head hits of happiness

Researchers at Harvard Medical School and elsewhere are experimenting with another technique that uses electromagnetic pulses to treat depression. Called transcranial magnetic stimulation, or TMS, it involves holding a figure-of-eight-shaped wand near a person's head. Two coils of wire on the wand generate a strong magnetic field that induces electric currents in brain cells.

"We believe that TMS works by normalizing disturbed levels of brain activity," says Alvaro Pascual-Leone, an associate professor of neurology at Harvard Medical School. In experiments at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, he and his colleagues lifted the spirits of depressed patients who are resistant to anti-depressant drugs.

"TMS uses electric fields that are more localized and much stronger than EP-MRSI," Cohen notes. "Some patients have reported feeling discomfort and there is a some danger of causing seizures with TMS that does not occur with our system. However, it may be that the two methods use different techniques to achieve the same result."

Neither scanners nor wands are ready for general use yet. If more experiments show widespread effectiveness at relieving depression, the electric fields may be better medicine than drugs. Anti-depressants can have disturbing side effects, including fatigue, anxiety, loss of libido, and increased blood pressure. They usually take weeks to work, and sometimes they don't work at all. So far, the scanning technique seems free of the side effects of drugs and TMS.

However, brain scanners that fill a large room and cost a million dollars or two are not a very practical alternative. McLean researchers have begun working on the design of a smaller, much cheaper device. "We plan to test a tabletop scanner in a study of a larger number of patients," Rohan says. Someday, he speculates, patients may be able to get their depression eased during a 20-minute nap at a doctor's office.

Those not suffering depression received as little benefit from scanning as those who underwent a sham treatment, ruling out the possibility of getting a quick hit of happiness at your doctor's office to brighten up a bad day or prepare for a dreaded meeting.

If anyone is interested in using iron to disrupt neg activity, try out with small iron/steel bracelets and if the iron still doesn't stop it  then increase the level of iron by buying several steal bracelets, I personally feel iron has stronger abilities to disrupt neg activity.  They generally say that iron made out of horse shoes is even better, and I think so as well with my own experience. Of course this works for minor to middling neg activity. This is a primary defence for new borns, babies in India.

Iron knives/swords hung at the entrance is also part of many traditions to stop negs, I've tried it and it does work and weakens the effects of the strongest attacks.

Horse shoes above the front door, also work, it should be place upwards as this circulates energy.  These methods work for the average neg and even advanced negs, but not if your neg attacker is a strong witch and they are really after you they can penetrate the defenses HOWEVER, these things definately weaken the attacks and make your attacker work harder and harder, hopefully forcing him/her to give up.

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Hi, since there was no discussion open on the effects of negs on children, I decided to start a new thread that would perhaps help anyone in this forum who has children to tell signs of neg manifestation or anyone who is desperately looking for help for their children who they suspect is under possession.  It is easier to cleanse oneself of negs, but to cleanse those innocent little helpless ones is another matter.

I hope to add to this thread my own experience with my nephew (and I would also like to thank  some important members in this forum who are trying to help me with my own situation) which will hopefully help others in a similar situation.  I hope this will allow good hearted experienced energy workers interested in simply helping to get into contact with parents, guardians of affected children.

negs are basically a foreign magnetic field 'virus' which is someone's focused evil thoughtform forced into your energy system literally trying to take over the flow of your meridians:

1)They can move so they have energy
2)they generally have a common Modus operandi;they can morph, the heavy breathing, clutching at your heart dreams, heaviness upon chest, bad luck, covering various parts of the body, winding and unwinding...etc.  Almost like a snake.
3)Just like Virus' they slowly try to take over the body through the person's own energy system and try to integrate into it but altering it to suit their appetites.
4) evolutionary wise, these negs are smart enough to coexist with their hosts for long periods of time causing energy drainage and poor health, symptoms of madness and sometimes even death, depending on the force of the thoughtform.

Good news is that they are a magnetic species, having the tendency to make you feel cold upon attack.

Bad news is not many people understand this or how difficult it is to remove one.

There are two ways to disrupt a magnetic field;
1)align it with another more powerful magnet, your own body's magnet...through meditation and excercise but that takes time and that leaves kids not much hope.  This is why iron is considered very useful in allaying curses and witchcraft.
2)heat destroys a magnet.

i'm wondering if anyone suffering with a neg problem had an MRi? did they feel better after having an mri, can a negs be detected using MRi's?  

i'm hoping if there is a doctor in the forum who has access to research university mRi's if they would be willing to experiment.

Instead of people suffering, I think this kind of energy research using new technology in medicine would be the most useful.

Well you're just saying "tibetan chants", do you know what the chants are for?  Each chant has a specific purpose...

As for negs, we got rid of one neg just through pure exercise in the morning, running, for about an hour/day. Others you just have to get stronger in your meditation to get rid of...so keep practicing meditation and exercising.

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Hi cprince,

Actually Ari-el is the guardian of the north in semitic tradition, Micha-el is the guardian of the south. Gabri-el is the west.  I can't remember the east...anyone??


guardians which are a part of Tibetan ritual:

http://www.tibetart.com/image.cfm?icode=489&CFID=9283427&CFTOKEN=72618287

Vaishravana, the Guardian King of the North (Tibetan: nam to se): a god of the lower heavenly realms and leader of the Yaksha beings.

Virupaksha and Virudhaka (Tibetan: chen mi zang dang pag pi kye bo): Guardians of the Western and Southern Directions and Kings of the Naga - serpents, and Kumbhanda - celestial musicians.

Dhritarashtra (Tibetan: yul khor srung), Guardian of the Eastern Direction and King of the Gandharva - celestial musicians.

These are the 4 king guardians of the 4 directions invoked in Tibetan prayers.

Hi Patrick,

I have a similar mask, in fact it's thicker it can become a helmet...it's an ectoplasmic spirit mask, basically a spirit is binding you, it requires exorcism, you can self-exorcise...it takes some practice.

I have it because witches are sending negs against me and my family.  This neg mask is horrible if it's on children as it hinders them from learning.  

It means it's either someone sending it after you, or you have been hexed or some spirit is just in you that you have to overcome.  If it's being sent to you by someone else, it'll be tough, otherwise it ought to be quite easy to get rid of once you get the hang of exorcising the spirit.

Part 3: Finally!

Obvious signs of negs in children:

1) as Robert Bruce states is the tell tale in/out breath that a child takes, it has a corresponding sound (slight burping sound) in the heart chakra where the neg tries to take over.

2) "demon marks" in my nephew were found to be in many places, in my own situation the marks were red with a white center about 1 inch in diameter on the legs, and other places they looked like red insect bites, but generally they cluster in a place and are unexplained.

3)ADD and learning problems will become a problem with your child as the NEG constantly interferes with the energy of the child.

4)The child becomes completely not himself and his movements become that of something else, he might start jumping and start acting crazily and might not feel any pain as the neg takes over.

5)Change of appetite and eating habits as the negs manifest.

6) Watch your child during sleep, you might see twitches, i.e. the nervers in the arms/legs acting on it's own.  That's the neg effect.  The child many times will become restless in his sleep and might wake up sreaming and running around out of control.

What to do:

1) luckily we had some spiritual abilities after long spiritual practice and were able to effectively help him, although this takes time every parent of such an affected child should try to take charge of their spiritual lives and meditate hard everyday.  Today we can partly exorcise the Neg ourselves using mantras and are able to make holy water, we're only getting stronger.

2)Find out how negs work and destroy your fear of the unknown.  Negs are inserted recievers that acts out of it's own accord or is controlled by the mind of someone really nasty.  The thing to do is protect your house and family using herbs, stones, incense, iron and steal to weaken the effects if not stop further attacks.

3) Find out about armors and shields/talismans that can be worn by the child.  These are made by healers and energy experts, yogis and sages.  

4)If you have had no spiritual training -- START NOW, go to churches, temples, and find out if there is any REAL healer.  YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL HERE. FIRST TRY THESE HEALERS ON YOUR SELF and ask if they have any experience with children.  Other places are martial arts grandmasters who generally have some energy and might be able to help you and give you more names of people and OFCOURSE forums like this.  Try Reiki, magneto therapists, psychics and find out more about exorcists and exorcisms...etc, but AGAIN BE CAREFUL.  As everyone knows there are a lot of false prophets and fakes out there that you wouldn't trust your self to let alone your child, MAKE SURE THIS PERSON IS FOR REAL, IT'S YOUR CHILD.

The neg problem is a constant battle as we haven't been yet able to secure the child yet, but have found some real healers/psychics who have been a tremendous help, the fight goes on and you can't give up.  Keep looking for energy workers, and hopefully you might find someone who might be able to further help.  Keep praying/meditating and hopefully you will become strong enough to destroy your child's neg yourself.  But the key is, don't give up.

Well actually it's the problem with non-magicians who consider themselves "scholars"...They read one flood story, claim it's the oldest one because it's the oldest "evidence" they find and then say All flood stories are thus derived from the Sumerian Gilgamesh.

Gilgamesh was a king who literally failed in his quest to gain immortality.
Noah too failed to gain immortality.

Only the Manu of the Indian flood story gained immortality and became "the hero" and the Vedas is attributed to him and his seven sage ministers...

So these flood stories are very different and only one of them, the Indian one, states that he became an immortal hero and will be the father of every "Vishnu" incarnation on earth, including the final Arya king of the Kalyug age, Kalki Avatar.

Wow, I agree with Rastus on something.  This is a family problem and believe me enough "black magic" has already gone on with you and his family obssessing and probably wishing him dead in pure anger.  

I'm sure the guy is aweful. But you putting a curse on him will probably make him worst and more hurtful to your girlfriend and mother.  As I said make an intelligent thought out decision that will actually HELP your girlfriend.  

Again black magic is the first resort of the weak and the last resort for survival, you decide where your situation is.

As for the people talking about "street fighting" etc. and karma...yeah , way off any logical argument...I'm not sure this is a "it's either you or me life or death" situation where anything goes.

karma or no karma, it's a matter of your honor system and character, black magic is basically akin to stabbing someone in the back -- it's sneaky and deceitful.

...that's why warriors never engaged in it,  it was considered "feminine" (left handed, sinister, female) because it was considered to be the last resort of the weak.

Black magic should only be used in extreme cases and only against other evil practitioners of black magic.

It is a family situation where your girlfriend is involved, so please use more sense and a little bit more patience, I've been through some very violent situations in the family, the best way is to simply separate and keep separate and don't debase yourself by resorting to such sneaky underhanded tactics.

Love is an emotion and it is detachment from emotion that is sought.

Buddhists use the word "compassion" and that is a more "sensible" word, since it implies that one can feel the pain of others without being attached or be carried away with emotion.