Messages

[There is no need to close ourselves off to anything]

Dear James,
Mostly bcuz I haven't exchanged words with you in so long...wanted to reply to your post, but it was straight forward and fairly neutral (had other tasks at hand)...Sheeple! Yes...love it when I can sum it all up in one simple word as that's a rarity. I too have little use for right & wrong, also the idea of 'teacher'...but that's another matter. Even when I taught children's art classes I used the word "creative coach" (still seeking a more appropriate word if you come across any).
Nice to see you're still around and coming from stable ground.

Dear Nay,
Don't get serious on me now! It isn't you in particular I have problems with...it's the group mentality you represent...one thick black line that 'separates' it all into fact and fiction. Like the ones up in arms over "A Million Little Pieces"...ridiculous waste of energy if not a ploy at distraction. There is no fact...only theory. As you, theorizing that I'm Schizo again and again. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for me to find an professional 'expert' that would conquer with you. As you stand your ground on the conventional side of things...and fight against the absurdity of the dark unknown...we actually aren't that different. In a sense we complete each other. Unfortunately you don't seem to appreciate that anyone else has it together. That we're all a bunch of crackpots competing with one another for attention. Basically it saddens me...and eventually angers me.
Not you...merely the "rigid" mind.  

In general,
We all suffer the same. We all have our moments of joy, paranoia, pride, guilt, resentment, elation, and so on. We are all human nothing 'more', nothing 'less'. Turning against a brother or sister (esp. in their moments of weakness) in order to gain some invisible upper hand...is a dis-ease and imbalance...no different from those that hold themselves in some martyrish situation for attention and pity...and where I have myself been guilty of both, and have also called others on the same behavior...my apologies aren't near as great as the lessons I have learned from pointing the finger.

All my attacks & craziness aside...I was born with a strong need to fight the status quo of it all, for better or worse. The energy beyond this function has been questioned on occasion, and the answer is always simple. There is no need to close ourselves off to anything. What would the world be like without the fringe dwellers or the darkness. No fairytales, no Alice in Wonderland, no Poe, no Van Gogh, no Einstein, no Da Vinci, no Janice Joplin or Mozart, no blues, no art, no poetry, no pushing the envelope...no complete exposure of ones soul for the souls sake. I would trade the fluffy-bunny surface skimming any day for the complete and total picture...the good, the bad, and the ugly...but that's me.

I was looking for some nifty quote to push my point, and came across the following by Theodore Roosevelt...

"Criticism is necessary and useful; it is often indispensable; but it can never take the place of action, or be even a poor substitute for it. The function of the mere critic is of very subordinate usefulness. It is the doer of deeds who actually counts in the battle for life, and not the man who looks on and says how the fight ought to be fought, without himself sharing the stress and the danger."

I can't say who is suffering or not, nor whether they have the right, nor whether their right is justified. It is not my place to diaognois or deny. I can't even conclude on whether we as humans are doing the best we can, or just bidding our time?!? It would be nice to have a forum in which we could all put ourselves forth 'completely', but leave it to me to always ask too much!


So...back to my painting.
Love Soul

[experts]

Did all this go on while I was on sabbatical? Sometimes feels like I (as well) come looking for some intelligent exchange, and it winds up here...in the rut.

I'm trying to stand back and think of how it all goes...like reading the same book a hundred times over, and it's not even a good book. Let's see...it's usually some unsuspecting noob to AP that finally breaks out of the silence and eeks out some trouble they may be having in their life: fear based and usually more than a bit confused. Some other noobs (those with no first hand experience, but a lot of passion or interest) will pipe up, passing round links, ideologies, and half-baked conclusion...then 'the pack' picks up on the scent of it all, circles round...and moves in for the kill. Unfortunately it's messy. I personally wouldn't have too much of a problem with a quick, intelligent, straight-to-throat kill (although those that somewhat know me...know I have little problem stepping in to protect the under-dogs when attacked).

No...what bothers me is it's definitely a game...playing with the prey till it's lifeless and no fun to play with anymore, or at least has the common sense to escape (so long stupid noob...off to astral demonics with you!)

Nay ~ to say your acting out of concern, or coming from a light place based in reality...well...come on...even if "we" tried to meet you half way on that...it still wouldn't be worth swallowing. For the most part I think your comments are made out of boredom...and with the protection that being a moderator grants you...you take it a step too far, but always round and round to the ha, ha ha's in the end...like it was all just a big ol' joke to begin with. You're an instigator...nothing more, and like I said...it takes all kinds.

I have been at the receiving end of your love & light too many times to count, and I'm none the better for it. Schizophrenic for the two of us has become a sorted joke, but it's not really funny is it?!?
Whatever the symptoms might be...I personally believe that everything can be cured through holistic means. Whether or not anyone involved in these groups are Schizoaffective is not the point. The point is that they're looking into alternative explanations and solutions to their problems, and that's one step ahead of the masses of numbed out Sheeple who always look for the quick fix. This has always been my problem...where I have absolutely no objection to healthy, spiritual, common sense being urged (meditation, whole food diets, yoga, balancing, etc)...I have yet to ever see you suggest any of these protocols to the so called "afflicted".

Feel free to "cut & paste" as I'd very much like to be proved wrong on this count.

A common prescription drug for Schizophrenia is Clozapin sold under the name "Clozaril" (approved by the FDA 1997). Side effects included dry mouth, constipation, blurred vision, and drowsiness, sexual dysfunction or decreased sexual desire, menstrual changes, and significant weight gain. Also restlessness, stiffness, tremors, muscle spasms, and one of the most unpleasant and serious side effects, a condition called Tardive Dyskinesia; a movement disorder of uncontrolled facial movements and sometimes jerking or twisting movements of other body parts, effecting 15 to 20 percent of patients, and usually continuing even after the medication is stopped. People taking clozapine must have their blood monitored every one or two weeks due to a common and serious drop in white blood cells.
Also a rare, but very serious, side effect Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome Signs to watch for are muscle stiffness that occurs over one to three days, a high fever, and confusion that can lead to death if not treated.

On top of this several lawsuits are in progress against Clozaril for more than 140 patients that developed new-onset diabetes. Three dozen cases involved ketoacidosis, a potentially deadly complication of elevated blood sugar (11 reports of runaway blood sugar in patient's ages 13 to 18).
Of the patient's taking Zyprexa (another common drug), seven had new diagnosis of hyperglycemia. The sugar disorder developed within a week of taking Zyprexa in two patients and within six months for eight others. One patient ultimately died of necrotizing pancreatitis, a condition in which cells in the pancreas die.
Additionally, Clozaril was linked to dozens of cases of heart complications, including at least 28 deaths since the late 1980s. Novartis, which makes a brand-name version of the pill, has contested those figures. Even so, many mental health experts consider the compound a "miracle drug" for patients with otherwise untreatable psychosis...

...so much for all the experts here and elsewhere.

So to all the Naysayers against the darker side of spiritual exploration and growth, and Heather B. (the former Mrs.) as well...thank GOD we live in different camps. At "our" little pow wows we sit and talk about how "dark ages" it is to just follow along with your head up your *ackhm*, slapping little smiley stickers all over the uncomfortable stuff, but in the end we are what y'all see in the mirror, and on the other-side y'all are we get back.
Irony!!! Just can't ever seem to meet in the middle and figure anything out. Oh well.

Soul
Saying & Spraying & making a small novel out of it all

don't waste your breath! if you've been spectating as long as you say then you know this little round-the-rosy game of nay and the fellow ankle bitters. it's exactly what they thrive off of! they LOVE it!!!
...but go ahead...you think it'll be satisfying to get it off your chest, but when your opinion gets chewed up and regurgitated back in your face. it just leads to more frustration. you learn to let it roll of your back, because it's exactly that...immature.

anything to dance around any straight forward, intelligent, progressive, open-minded discussion. not all moderators exist to set an example. some have the very special job of baiting members into a frenzy and fueling the fires. takes all kinds.

333

for anyone serious about fasting i recommend reading/researching "the master cleanse" or go to curezone.com (most comprehensive alternative health forum online). as far as 'concerns' go...there are people that naturally lean towards caution, think too much, etc. basically those that second guess their intuition and look for others to lead them.
in this case fasting isn't appropriate...for the trepidatious.

the discipline involved is as great a payoff as the health benefits of clearing out your system and giving it a rest. i don't know anyone that isn't in need of a good thorough cleansing (at least 7 days).
& a great way to start the new year off clear headed.

i'll be starting my first fast of the year day-after-tomorrow.
(14 - 21 days...haven't decided yet).
i'll post my progress if anyone's interested.

and please check out curezone (esp. for pictures)
-liver & kidney cleanses
-parasite cleanses
-master cleanse info, etc.

what hole of a thread???
oh yeah...welcome to the dysfunctional sport that is astral pulse!
(choices therefore...home team, opponents, or spectator)
333

i should say so...two attention starved, drunken, schizophrenics always make a better think tank than one pessimystic naysayer, but you know you always get all the brownie points for effort my dear.

more love & light for 2006
soul

[I've missed you much!!!]

:bump:
Well...obviously no fresh new starts for the new year taking place here.
Still haven't found the time I see to utilize all that grey pudding upstairs to move in a soft, warm, and intelligent light.
Still niggling away with the pariah.

Sweet Sweet Mystic...looking for love in all the wrong places :rabbit:
Always free to do as you wish, but hoping I can entice you back home.
I've missed you much!!!

Insatiably yours.......Soul
:kissing:

dear sickmoon,

secret societies i was speaking of, inclusive of the pyramid scheme...all of which work the same way...whether we're speaking of am-way, the masons, the illuminati, or the red hat ladies (yes women are involved as well eg: eastern stars, independent order of the daughters of the empire, etc). the pyramid representing the pinnacle of power that stands on the backs of all the little people. the 1% that owns 99% of the wealth, the folks that make the rules, have the heaviest agendas, and keep their 'truths' locked in the darkest & deepest of basements.

who's making the rules, and what rules? good question. following the money is usually the best place to start...the only part (anyway) that's available to the general public. most of the rules have to do with controlling the population. bcuz at the other end of it all...there's 99% 'have-notter's", and those aren't good odds. the "rulers" are all about strategy imho, and they're amazing at it...constantly working to recruit the greatest minds on earth into their little secret circles. they actually build universities in order to skim the intellectual cream from the pot.

before now...secret societies merely appeared as harmless 'clubs' of great thinkers with over-burden wallets...now the idea is far less benign, as a secret global government that functions under the radar to carry out new world conspiracies. i live in the US as well, and looking down the road a ways...i also see a very scary situation we'll ALL eventually will have to deal with on some level. on the other hand we're too dependent on the powers that be, too complacent, too trusting, and too distracted. more so in the last five years than ever. there isn't a day that goes by that laws aren't being changed to limit our rights, and work us into a corner. on a whole...we're going to get exactly what we ordered...nothing.

not sure that answered any of your questions!?! in this area there are few real answers, just more and more questions.

soul

dear clandestino,

as you say forgetting is so long...and i think it's the short term/immediate gratification/apathetic type mind that causes this to perpetuate or be drawn out, time and time again. it's understandable in a way...people just too overwhelmed by all the history, all the possibilities before them, and the conditioning to always pick the right combination. it's impossible now days, and i feel it definitely leads to that stagnated/limbo like lifestyle.

for the most part people don't respect the aspects of themselves that 'make mistakes' (the instinctive parts of themselves that strive to learn through first hand application/trial 'n' error). it's more that they remove themselves further and further each time...from the things that are uncomfortable (both within & without). for me this speaks of an immature population that has very little interest in bringing about change through good, honest, hard work & common sense. to me people are growing more lazy and becoming more interested in 'package' deals, and anything cheap, disposable, amusing, status grabbing. they want the whole shebang in a pretty little gift-wrapped box...and they want it for free.

i'm a huge advocate for thinking outside-the-box, and like you mentioned...the picking and choosing for what suits you most at this time, and the open-mindedness to change that as needed...and the wisdom to know the difference between what is needed and what's a trend  that's too much work for most. they'll just wait till you catch on to something that appears 'good' and then they'll scoop it up.

the gentrification of the physical, mental, and spiritual realms drives me nut-so and follows me around like the shadows of something parasitic and greedy. artists living in the broke-down industrial warehouses and meat-packing districts...bcuz that's all they can afford and still do they're art, and follow their passions...then a few years later, the funkiness catches on, and the warehouses are converted into 1.5 million dollar 'lofts' and the people that revitalized & brought 'life' into the area are forced to move on to find more creative, cheaper digs...and then the once 'happening' area bcomes a sham. it's happening everywhere, on all sorts of levels. no respect for those that reach into the unknown and draw something unique out of it, and tend to it mindfully, offer up to share, etc before it's sniffed out by the mindless, gobbled up and spit out...so the next thing can be devoured.

i really feel that a small percentage of 'us' go around and around in circles working this type of 'magic'. piecing back-together all the things that have been diluted, homogenized and mass-replicated, and tossed aside. weaving back together all that has been pulled apart for the 'truth' (which has become synonymous with self-gratification).

obladee-obladaa
soul
here's to a come-back of corporal mortification!    seriously!

just out of curiosity MS...are you male or female???

did i learn anything?!? seeing as i was born in '68...i'm not sure. that decade did have a profound effect on me though. and as the '80s sucked the big donkey-kong , the '90s were a mess, and this...well this is just getting crazy. i think i'm still trying to implement the stuff i learned in a past life!?!

dear leyla...for sure not a good idea to bring up the subject of little boys when arguing the islamic religion!!! the catholic religion either!

it's the contradictions that always get under my skin. it goes past the male and female thing, although i could easily say "that only man would attempt to define GOD, and get it published" (which isn't as true nowadays. now that they're allowing 'us' to attend temples/churches/schools/the work force and such). to me it has more to do with the intellectual, which has nothing to do with the natural creativeloveintelligence that flows through ALL and defines itself in everything physical & etheric. i'm speaking of 'implied' intelligence only...special men, that start special clubs, and work first and foremost to keep the most valuable information they have secret, and that's been around longer than any book.

i have nothing against religion. some people 'really' need it..like some people really need psycho-tropic drugs, or documents they can hang on their wall that say they're 'somebody' significant. i have a hard time buying into/supporting and taking responsibility for systems where the most valuable information is reserved for the folks at the top of the pyramid. still...a player or not...we're all bricks in the wall. most of us too consumed in our daily lives to bother with fighting for real freedom. the truth is less likely to come out under the massive control that is situating itself currently...but that's also when it tends to happen...when those who make the rules get comfortable and arrogant, and leave the back door unlocked.

anyway...as for the other female perspectives here...
i've always felt it completely ignorant to try and evaluate the mind-set of muslim women. when i see american women on tv speaking on "behalf" of their middle-eastern sisters...it really irks me. first, the cultural difference that we couldn't even begin to grasp from such a distance, and second... that we occupy no better a situation (in the large scale of things).
i have little interest in equal rights...it's something i feel is earned, not granted. my perspective is...neither men or women are capable of absolute respect (the purest form of love), bcuz they lack a 'whole' sense of respect for themselves. common courtesies are more pavlovic, although there's little wrong with the basic 'feel' good programming...it's when it begins to become reserved for 'particular/special' others...that it creates rifts for me.

i dont' enjoy being one of the guys, or one of the ladies for that matter.
i just enjoy being myself...undefined.

i was waiting for someone to get to the virgins. i'm not going to comment on that, but it's the glitch for me in all religions...the prize at the end of the party for good behavior. and when people start talking about books actually 'authored' by GOD 'himself'...well...they're always awfully large books to swallow whole.

something inside always wants to take it to the lowest common denominator. in my mind there is always an island with two completely innocent/ignorant, knowledge-less youth (male & female) in a succulent paradise that they eventually populate with family, and then somehow it fast-forwards (koyaanisqatski style) to our current situation.

when once it was all so simple. the sun rising each morning setting a rhythm, the moon waxing & waining and it's subtle effects of the tides, the seasons...when certain plants & trees blossomed into flower, gave way to fruits, then seeds...that sprouted and began again. no concept of god, just your own "relationship" with the world around you. nothing separate...everything effecting everything. but somehow in the little similarities of 'this & that', patterns were established, conclusions and preferences were made and things began to separate into likes and dislikes.

i think of that time as 'a place before fear'...as i stand here on the opposite side of existences looking back over all that lays in between. nothing has changed...just our mind-set. i have no idea when GOD actually came on the scene as a white-bearded old man that oversees all...that rewards reverence with virgins, and punishes with pestilence?!? with all the common sense i have...i can't help but think that mother earth/nature came first...as the natural world, it's cycles, mystery and nurturing sustenance...is the total embodiment of the feminine. it only makes sense that the representation of 'both' aspects (male & female) were present when the idle past time of worship came into play.

again i see where the male-based 'religions' (belief systems) worked best to manipulate and control larger populations with 'fear of the unknown', keeping everyone in line with reward of the after-life, etc. divine systems functioned more in the here 'n' now, with the earth as home, etc. it fed, and healed, and treated all inhabitants as equally responsible...and was therefore buried along the way. you can't run a tight ship with some all-embracing/all-forgiving female in the way!

yada-yada-yada...just a fragment of my perspective.

The Qur'an is proof, and the history of the Prophet Muhammad sws which was well-documented is proof. The very fact that he could not read or write, and he recited a book which is unique, eloquent and without contradiction(read it yourself) is proof that it is from the All-Knowing Creator.

or ALIENS!
give me proof that GOD exists, and i WILL introduce you to a very interesting group of extra-terrestrials!!!

i'll say i'm a "non-believer" only bcuz my function does not rely solely on what "I" believe to be going on, nor does it require a support system of like-minds to validate my experience, nor does it require proof.

finally :hippy3:

as for my avatars...it's an alter-ego thing, and one of my artistic passions as well. i love fantasy-erotica...always have. think it started with the vamperella comics in the playboy magazines that my dad kept in the bathroom.
frank frazetta, sailor jerry, betty page, betty grable, betty boop, marilyn monroe, etc, etc...and yes it's fascination has always carried a conundrum. that wonderful faux-naive/princess syndrome act that works in almost all situations, and the idea of such passive manipulation also demonstrating great intelligence & power. anyway...that's beside the point.

for someone that's been celibate going on nine years now...i've moved out of that sexual system of power-playing, competing with other women for attention, blaming one sex or the other (in the small picture of things), etc. a lot people think that being celibate is simply abstaining from sex, but it's a self-discipline that really opens your eyes in relation to how all people behave for the most part...impossible to relate to unless one is in the same boat. that in itself makes it hard for others to understand where 'exactly' i'm coming from...despite the avatar.

there was a point in time when women were in control of just about everything 'important'. they were the land owners, paper holders, they made all the major decisions concerning their tribes/family. they were the healers, teachers, soothsayers, prophets, shamans, life-givers, etc. there's very little of that left, and even less 'documented' in history, but the current state of affairs shouldn't influence your thinking as greatly as it does. the table is turning as we speak.

soul

AMEN :popcorn2:

i've always been able to get my mind around the concept of GOD as a creator/source/unified field of intelligence, etc...but i've tried to hold that concept without having to personify it. i don't believe that god "wants" you do anything; in that light "he" becomes an authority/father figure, and we end up drawing on the only reference we have first-hand knowledge of...our parents, and then everything begins to slant towards the dysfunctional...imho.

when it comes down to it there are three (extreme) options
1) take advantage of your physical form while it's available and delight in all earthly pleasures.
2) make moves to surpass the physical, utilizing abstinence a symbolic gesture that you are focused on ascension of spirit.
3) or do nothing, but sit in limbo.

didn't really have a point with this post
soul

i share a similar view point of view on the creator/creation thing (with all the non-sense & arrogance aside)(i suppose it's attractive to me as an artist). i'm currently more into the observer & the observed, but same difference.

funny thing is when creation attempts to sum up itself, state its purpose, name its price, etc. and it's the anger actually that i find unpleasant in your posts. such animosity towards your fellow brothers & sisters, but no sense pointing the finger...it seems to be a pandemic of late. i feel the point is missed again with the act of being 'present'. that space before thought when you are truly one with the creator. you are working just as much within the past, and projecting assumptions just as much into the future, as anyone else is. if you truly occupied that space that you speak so highly of...you wouldn't have a need to justify, criticize, or explain.

with all i am capable of understanding...you are just another child-like creation lost in a sea of male-based rule, seeking sense and familiarity with it all. with all that everyone knows combined...i think we will all be very surprised in the end.

...and the creator & the creation are 'absolutely' one in the same, completely indivisible...always!

just in case anyone was wondering?!?

dear james, thanks for summing up the main focus on female deities, the balance of, the older systems, etc. saved me from going on about it...which tends to get me rambling off point.

as for being a jaded woman...yes, i suppose to a certain degree i am comfortable with admitting that...but at the hand of men?!? absolutely not! at my own doing only. i surmise my jadedness as that state of the "serious student", but that doesn't mean that i'm lacking a sense of humour either. i'm definitely not a "feminist" if that's what you're implying. i love men! i would love even more to get a point where the words male & female didn't exist, but that's asking a lot (still) in this day 'n' age. i mean...we're still working with black & white, straight & gay, up & down, and all that. in that light i think it would be too much for me to ask of others (and i'm misinterpreted enough as is ).

as for your precious christianity and the lack of female involvement...it's hard for me to put into words. there is a feeling a betrayal there, that calls to me from beyond. it was omitted for a reason, and without trying to explain that reason...i'll just say that i feel it was (as with the idea of women) too much, too sacred, too key...and in that the idea that it has always been hidden, protected...for a more fitting time. you may notice that more & more of the divine aspect of the christian faith is coming to light. good in the sense that it will bring it into balance...finally.

i don't hate the playa's or the game...but i can be as you say 'serious' at times. i hold myself highly accountable as a unique function, as a woman, and as part of the whole. on that account...i'm not one to let others off easily, especially men! i have a great amount of empathy for the modern man and the system he's created/inherited from his fathers before him. this has a lot to do with the lack of "coming to age" rituals, but that's even more off-topic. it would be nice to garner the same respect from men in general...that when i look back on my life, and my involvement with men in particular...there is nothing of great significance that was passed along; and i can't say that that doesn't bother me!

i see it all swinging into balance as it should. my energy is utilized most...for appreciating the rhythm of it all, and finding peace in the process. i'm sorry if i don't convey that clearly 2 U.

strange that it doesn't seem possible to have an intellectual discussion about masturbation?!? guess it's the mix of maturity levels'!?

there's a lot of levels to self-gratification. the joke of "why does a dog lick his balls?...bcuz he can!" comes to mind. seems to be the major point that most of you are pushing (and that's fine)...although some dogs become obsessed with the habit...and that's where my point comes into play.
so everything one does 'releases energy'...sure, great. simple & straight forward, but another aspect of this discussion was looking in the area of creating a drain on chi, tantric practices, etc. (not just in relation to masturbation, but intercourse as well). once again (for me) it goes back to abstinence & self-disciplines. i wonder in my mind how long any of you have gone without sex or masturbation? like the fasting & breatharian threads... it doesn't cross into that realm of "necessary", but it elicits such dramatic response.

a lot of the discussions that i involve myself in, here @ AP always feel the same. drugs and there effect on the mind/astral...a lot of ridicule & insisting by people who are inexperienced with drugs. fasting threads where most of the replies are made by folks who have never fasted at all, or done the one or two day thing. and this thread...

just another interesting topic that could lead to something profound, but winds up being a joke...bcuz people can't deal-e-o, or think outside their own particular function.

of course there's nothing "wrong" with masturbation. that's what you'd tell your kids, hope to get across to women, etc..."get to know your body, experience it, explore". in that circle it's healthy and grounding. but there shouldn't be any faulting those that move outside that circle and seek a deeper understanding of things on a non-material level/where the necessities of many things are being questioned (food, sex, religion, science, politics, money, etc.) it should never be viewed as a personal attack or threat to anyones belief systems...we're merely people that have an interest in moving & not getting stuck.

i'm sure i'll end up sorry for not reading this entire post (first), but adding some cents just the same.

one thing i find bizarre is how westerners read a few books, threads, etc and feel justified to give advice when it comes to something as deeply mysterious as tantric sex. i'm not attacking anyone here, but you can't just put your hand on your head when you climax and think that's gonna accomplish anything.
the energy is made to be released
it can be stored & utilized
and folk who 'really' practice tantric sex don't masturbate.

the point is "not" to climax at all. anyway...the point i wanted to make was that it's a 'complete' way of living that involves many practices. you can't suck down sodas, eat garbage, zone out in front of the tv, drink and party and all that jazz and ever obtain total control over your chi. has everything to do with purification of your body & soul, but i feel that's self-explanatory.

as for masturbation being a lustful sin, or some animistic perversion. pretty much true for the most part...but there's nothing stopping anyone from 'making love' to their 'self'. in this...it's not the actual act, but more & more what twisted, degrading things turn people on.
i think it has a lot to do with complacency, apathy, laziness & dependence...that people arent' working hard enough, and not getting a pure sense of 'satisfaction' from their everyday function/performance. also in relation to caged animals that when bored begin obsessively grooming, pacing, masturbating, etc.
bored animals become habitually deviant in their behavior.

not sure my comments had anything to do this thread!?!
but what the hell.
soul

dear m.seed,

i understand the woods to represent the divine principal (being taboo), and the ultimate 'unknown' (world of mystery) and the path being completely 'male-based' and the accepted/est. "right" or given (world of science). i'm not saying that one is any better then the other...again, they are what they are.
i have come to the conclusion that 'the path' holds much more in the way of negative karma...but that's only based on my knowledge of it working in incomplete circles (more in straight lines & weak dimensions). it's made to take advantage and use up things in peoples own personal agendas.

this is actually more difficult for me to explain than i thought...as it goes in so many directions, and on so many levels.

for me the woods have always held more information, faster, clearer, more common sense lessons, sustenance, life, and a certain space that is reserved for me as natural. the woods spark & feed my creativity, give a solid sense of self-worth, and heals me on a very deep level. i'm speaking both metaphorically & literally. the wood inspires my heart with its beauty, satisfies my mind with its simple logic, and stirs my spirit with its intense mystery...maybe bcuz i'm an earth sign, or a woman, a solo practitioner, or a freak?!? i don't  care about the whys, the who's & hows. i can practice independence off the path and that outweighs many things for me.
it is in fact "my path". not better or worse...just different.

i could go on and on about all that 'i' find 'wrong' with the established path (for me the "system" is seriously flawed), but i doubt y'all want to hear  me complain. all in all you can't complicate karma. it is what it is, like love or water. it's existence is beyond whatever we believe it to be.

as for christianity...it was only one religious example, but since you have chosen to focus on it. i have a bit of a problem with taking the "work" of jesus (who was all about karma) & having men incessantly manipulate it over the centuries into a dogma to control, scare, and attack others with.
i am not anti-conscious when it comes to christ or jesus. i just have a hard time listening to others "explain" it to me. it's completely unnecessary.

all the greatest influences from our history (known & unknown) have come from those who laid down their own path with each step.
none of them were followers.

soul

this is kind of a silly thread (in a sense), and i know everything has pretty much been covered, but karma doesn't apply to the actual function of selling pot. i think the mystical & ancient understandings of cause 'n' effect are being filtered through some christianity here. pot is illegal therefore it's wrong, therefore it creates bad karma. it's that same thing about avoiding the woods and sticking to the main path...bcuz the woods are mysterious, filled with magic mushrooms, hungry wolves, and thieves in hiding. karma doesn't really work in extremes...like deadly sins & saving graces. it's more subtle.

a guy can stand all day long on a corner with all the pot he can carry, and he isn't generating any karma at all. he can sell all the pot he wants and he's still not "contributing" to anything, as has been implied. now what he does with the money he makes from selling pot is another story, and that's where i find this issue interesting. in the scheme of which this discussion was established, there is much more "evil" in a five dollar bill, then all the cannabis sativa on the planet. with this understanding i am assuming that the pot is home grown. that's the only way to ensure karma free-trade!!! if it has anything to do with black markets, third worlds, king pins, trafficking, governments & ghettos...then yes...i'll correct myself and say bad karma is being generated, but as i also mentioned above...it's more from "purchasing power" where the money changes hands...then anything else.

just as much harm can be done buying a coffee at starbuck's or a sweater from old navy! important to stick to your own karmic state only. even the act of trying to "fix" someone else, and save them from their lessons, can produce some murky karma for yourself.

2 cents
soul

yes...up to saturnalia. (which is precisely why i mentioned it).

i had fun writing a reply to nickyJ...just obvious stuff and more rope, and all that, but held of posting it till this morning, bcuz i thought i could be more concise & sweeter. this morning however i have little concern over delivering my perspective in a palatable manner, and picking up on some energy that this thread might not hold any information for me (that i'm not already well acquainted with). feeling i read something 'more' into it that's not really there.

(...but of course i know a part of the story that nobody else does.)
best of luck with it all
soul

Thank you ALL very much .
Yeah...besides stirring up the pot, and defending mysfits with my semi-super powers...art is one of my less disturbing skills!!!