Messages

I don't believe it is good to generalize when it comes to whether or not a person actually meets the spirit of Christ. I've done so and I know of other people who have done the same. In my case such occurrences happened in a manner where it simply wasn't a matter of how my mind interpreted things.

Kurt Leland's books are an interesting read, but some of the things he says don't make sense and contradict what many other people have found.  For example, some spirits aren't able to release negative emotional energy, so they momentarily inhabit a person's body so they can release negative energy when this person has a moment of anger. He claims that this is probably what happens when people have multiple personality disorder, bipolar disorder, and turret syndrome. I believe these conditions are way too complex for such a possibility.

Has anybody read George Ritchie's near death experience? He wrote about how deceased alcoholics hang around bars waiting for drunks to pass out, so they can take advantage of the energetic break, and experience the passed out drunks intoxication.  Leland claims that spirits do this so they can release negative emotional energy. I would think that George Ritchie understood what the spirit of Jesus was explaining to him. Many other people have also found differently than what Leland suggests.

Leland wrote that spirits release negative emotional energy in such a way, by hanging around and waiting for people to have a moment of anger. When a person has such a moment, the spirit hops in.  He also wrote that spirits enter the bodies of people while they are asleep, so they can release negative energy at such a time. I don't see why spirits would have to wait for a drunk to pass out, if isn't problematic for a spirit to penetrate a person's body. I don't believe it is easy to do so.

He also says that spirits enter the bodies of people in a vegetative state such as a coma, so they can release energy at such a time. This is hard to believe.

He has a unique version of what happens after death. 1. A specific type of spirit squeezes a spirit out of its body sort of like squeezing toothpaste out of a tube, while a spirit's deceased body is in a grave. 2. They are placed on some sort of centrifuge in order to release negative emotional energy.  If a spirit can't release all of its negative energy, it does as explained above. 3. A spirit goes through a period of time where it is depressed, because it is unhappy about being dead. It adjusts to no time during this time period. 4. It is next placed in a drawer so that alchemist spirits can gradually transform it back to pure consciousness. 5. It receives education about life in the World. 6. After going through such an orientation period, it is required to reincarnate.

Why have other people found so differently?

Why does a spirit helper wait until a body is in a grave before squeezing a spirit out? Does a newly deceased spirit stay with a body while it is taken to a morgue, embalmed, and displayed at a funeral? This just doesn't make sense to me.

There are other things he claims that seem odd, but I figure I've written enough.

I used to follow guru based Eastern teachings for a while, and supposedly if you saw that you don't have an ego, it stops existing. I've found that if you meditate in such a way you find that your ego can't be found. This isn't because there is no such thing as an ego. This is because there is no particular thing you can grab hold of and say: "This is my ego." I believe that our ego is a compilation of psychological attributes.

When thought of in this way, ego is sometimes thought of as the childish/self centered part of ourselves. Sometimes it is thought of as our uniqueness as an individual soul. I believe both explanations are true, depending upon how you are using the word.

Whatever the case, I no longer believe in the Eastern viewpoint that there is no such thing as an individual soul. My experiences tell me differently. For example, it is clear that the light being I communicate with has reached a level of development where this light being is a master of his (not really "his") creative thought energy. This being didn't have to puff out of existence once it found out about the truth of its spiritual nature.

For whatever reasons energy can be used in a manner so individual souls can be created. I figure once a parcel of consciousness/creative energy is capable of determining its own fate, its existence as an actual soul entity becomes a reality. Once a Soul learns to live according to love and wisdom, what would be the point of its aggregates dissipating way?

When it comes to the negative definition of ego, I believe that such attributes are temporarily taken on while we incarnate into a body because they provide the contrast that enable us to have a unique learning experience while incarnated in this World. For example, how could we understand humility without knowing about arrogance?

I believe there is a such thing as getting to the point where one lives according to divine will rather than the opposite. This is more of a matter of living completely according to love rather than losing one's existence as an individual soul.

I basically believe that spirit beings from a higher level created this World so that souls such as ourselves can learn by incarnating into this World.

Here's a way to consider the matter.  Initially very simple forms of life existed on this planet. I find it hard to believe that these simple life forms caused themselves (and their supposed ability to excrete chemicals), this planet, our Sun, and the planets and asteroids that are a part of our solar system to be, by excreting chemicals from within themselves.

I think more than twice before I accept what a channeled source has to say. Not to say that a person could never channel a light being. However, on at least a few occasions  other explanations are possible.

Something wierd happened. I thought I responded to Psionic with a new post, instead I edited his post. After noticing this I removed my edit. I figure we shouldn't be able to alter each other's posts.

I wrote that sometimes I have my spirit guidance verify the messages I receive because I'm stubborn at times.

I don't know anything about Michael Prescott, but I have to say I agree with what he wrote about a part of Jane Robert's/Seth's teachings below.


By Michael Prescott:
"My problem with Seth
Last time, I talked a little bit about the so-called Seth material channeled by Jane Roberts and how it relates to the idea of a holographic universe. But I have to say that I have trouble taking Seth altogether seriously. Communications issued in his name seem to vary considerably in quality, from provocative and scientifically respectable theories about the nature of reality to highly dubious and rather childish exercises in what appears to be pseudoscience.

Reading further in Roberts' 1970 book The Seth Material, I came across a good example of the latter. It's a passage in which Seth tries to explain the mechanism by which thoughts become things.

Thoughts and images are formed into physical reality and become physical fact. They are propelled chemically. A thought is energy. It begins to produce itself physically at the moment of its conception.

Mental enzymes are connected with the pineal gland. As you know them, body chemicals are physical, but they are the propellants of this thought-energy, containing all the codified data necessary for translating any thought or image into physical actuality. They cause the body to reproduce the inner image. They are sparks, so to speak, initiating the transformation.

Chemicals are released through the skin and pore systems, in an invisible but definite pseudophysical formation. The intensity of a thought or image largely determines the immediacy of its physical materialization. There is no object about you that you have not created. There is nothing about your own physical image that you have not made.

The initial thought or image exists within the mental enclosure. It is not yet physical. Then it is sparked into physical materialization by the mental enzymes.

This is the general procedure. All such images or thoughts are not completely materialized in your terms, however. The intensity may be too weak. The chemical reaction sparks certain electrical charges, some within the layers of the skin. There are radiations then through the skin to the exterior world, containing highly codified instructions and information....

Objects are composed of the same pseudomaterial that radiates outward from your own physical image, only the higher intensity mass is different. When it is built up enough, you recognize it as an object. At low intensity mass it is not apparent to you.

Every nerve and fiber within the body has an inner purpose that is not seen, and that serves to connect the inner self with physical reality, that allows the inner self to create physical reality. In one respect, the body and physical objects go flying out in all directions from the inner core of the whole self.  (pp. 121-122)

If we boil this down, Seth seems to be saying that our bodies exude chemicals through the pores of our skin, and these chemicals somehow coalesce into the physical objects around us. Now, I don't know about you, but I find this explanation preposterous. I don't even think it makes sense on the most basic logical level. Our bodies are themselves physical, so do these mysterious chemicals first form our bodies before proceeding to form the rest of our environment? And aren't the chemicals themselves physical? (It's not of much help to label them "pseudophysical" - this just muddies the waters even further.)

Beyond that, do we really believe that everything we perceive around us is produced by the emanation of chemicals from our own individual body? (Seth insists that each individual creates his own reality in toto, so we're not talking about a reality constructed by the combined chemical output of billions of humans; instead we have to imagine billions of separate realities.) If I stand on a high point in the desert where I can see for 50 miles, are the rock formations on the distant horizon created by chemicals exuding from my body at that moment?

Sorry. I'm not buying it."

Rezaf:

Perhaps it is time to work on spiritual growth rather than going out of body. I hardly ever go out of body, because doing so doesn't usually pertain to spiritual growth. I receive lots of help from spirit guidance, and help comes in a manner that emphasizes helping me overcome the limiting thought patterns that prevent me from living according to love completely. It has also included a lot of energetic work from spirit beings. I figure that once I complete the spirit growth I need to complete, I'll have all of eternity to explore astrally and in what other ways there are to explore. Perhaps I've already explored quite a bit before this lifetime. The same could be true for you.  Why incarnate into this World for learning purposes, if we don't make use of it? I believe it is a good sign that one of the beings you experienced wished that you receive guidance from God.

In a way, going out of body a lot before a person has worked on spiritual growth, could be like using energetic techniques to raise one's kundalini. There have been numerous irresponsible gurus who have helped people raise their kundalini, and then when people run into problems with their kundalini, such a guru isn't able to help them. I believe that if one places emphasis on clearing up psychological issues and the resulting energetic blocks, one's energetic system will evolve naturally according to need.

One night I saw an image of a life size heavy metal dude. I could see kundalini flowing within him. He said,  "I use my kundalini for evil." Next I saw a lifesize demonic image of myself. Next I saw the face of Jesus Christ. The message was clear. If I'm going to go through the kundalini unfoldment process, I need to make certain that I do so with Christ consciousness/love in mind. Later on things worked out so Christ became one of my guides.

Related to this, I used to have out of body experiences with all the effects. This doesn't happen anymore. Either my awareness will travel somewhere without the effects, or I'll have an OBE like experience while having a dream. I believe this is because my vibrational rate has increased.  Once a person's vibrational rate has reached a certain level, it isn't necessary for noticeable vibrational rate increases to take place in order for a person to go OBE.

Here are some of the experiences I had with Christ:

Years ago when I was an atheist I had what I refer to as a night in heaven experience. I found my self in space, but not physical space. I was very surprised to find out that God, Christ and the afterlife are realities. Not in a fundamentalist way, but in a wonderful way. Not only did I understand how God and the afterlife are true, I completely understood how it was possible for them to exist without having to think about it. It was like, "Oh yeah, of course!" It was a natural knowing that pervaded the realm I was in. The happiness level was wonderful. I understood that everything works out wonderfully in the end.  I didn't see nor hear anybody, but I understood that many other beings abided in this realm. It seemed as if we were bodyless beings.  The realm seemed to be permeated with light. At the end of the experience I saw a bright light, which I understood to represent Christ.

I can't recollect the full feeling of the above experience by thinking about it. However, I know that during the experience I had no doubts about what I was experiencing. I can't say how I managed to have the experience. My spirit guidance probably helped me have it. My guidance has helped me in numerous ways.

Here's another example. One night I was reading an Elaine Pagel's book and she wrote that the Gospel According to Thomas speaks of Jesus as if he is an enlightened being; the Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke speak of him as if he is a messenger of God; and the Gospel of John speaks of him as if he is God incarnate. Before I went to sleep that night I asked for a dream that would tell me which gospel is accurate. In the middle of the night I woke up from a dream and got ready to take some notes.  But then I saw a light flash. Before this experience I had seen spirits appear as flashes of light many times. This is how I see them when I see them through my crown chakra. The light I saw on this occasion was much larger and radiated much more energy than any of the light flashes I've experienced before. The energy felt divine. It felt more real than the physical World.

I forgot about my dream notes, turned off my night lamp, laid on my side, and was overcome with the energy I felt. This energy worked on my energetic system for about fifteen minutes. I have awakened kundalini and this energy felt more powerful and more directed than kundalini ever felt. I didn't see or hear Christ, but I felt that this energy was his presence.  I had strong feelings of love, reverence, humility and gratitude towards him as this experience took place.  Ever since the energy flow in my upper chakras has been more alive, clear and balanced.

Regarding which gospel is correct when it comes to who Christ is, I figure it is up to each person to decide.  Whatever the case, this experience showed me that Christ can appear anywhere he wants to appear and in as many places as he wants.  He has also appeared to me while showing me his human image. Or anyway, the image that history has recorded.

About a week ago I started to re-experience what I experienced when I had my night in heaven experience. I felt the reality of Christ. I couldn't feel it completely, because I had an energetic block in my third eye area. I believe this was due to my mental confusion about what type of authority Christ represents. During this experience I could feel his divine authority. I'm not certain how to reconcile that Christ is about authority and love at the same time.  During this experience--I should say series of experiences--I'd experience something positive when I'd open to the truth that God has given Christ divine authority, and I'd experience something negative when I didn't. These mini-experiences went back and forth according to how I changed my perspective. For example, when I opened up to the principle of Christ having divine authority, my heart chakra opened up and my awareness expanded.  Another positive example is I experienced myself walking up a flight of steps, a symbol for ascension. When I took on a perspective that didn't accept his divine authority, I'd experience something negative such as being in a claustrophobic room and I couldn't get any of the lights to turn on.  My inability to turn on a light is a symbolic equivalent to not being able to open up to divine light. My spirit guidance has used such symbology in the past.

Don't take my word for it. This is something each person has to figure out for his or her self. 

Wow, this is a long thread! To begin, I must state that I read very little of it. When it comes to trying to figure out what Christ is about through academic debate, the results are uncertain. So I tried to find out through spiritual means, and had various experiences and received messages which showed that Jesus Christ did in fact live, was in fact crucified, and is a key part of divine reality. I couldn't tell you all of the specifics, but not in a fundamentalist way. I received messages and experiences in a manner where it is clear that they weren't the result of my mind spinning out hallucinations.

I know of other people who are not fundamentalists by any stretch of the imagination, who also had experiences with Christ.

I figure just about any person can find out for his or herself, if he or she humbly asks, and opens his or her self up to such an experience. One will accomplish far more this way, than relying on academic study. 

I have a vegan diet that is mostly organic. My spirit guidance has sent me messages about the importance of eating healthy in order to keep my energy balanced.

In her book Cosmic Journeys, Rosalind Mcknight wrote about how the spirits she and Robert Monroe were working with told her and Robert that they needed to eat healthier food, because the food they were eating was making it difficult for the spirits to work with them.


Regarding kundalini, I believe it is a mistake to try to rise it with energetic techniques. I've found that if one gets over the limiting thought patterns and emotional issues that limits one's energetic flow, one's kundalini will rise naturally.

Early on during my kundalini unfoldment process I was shown this sequence of symbolic images one night. First I was shown a lifesize heavy metal rocker dude. I could see kundalini flowing within him. He said: "I use kundalini for evil."  Next I was shown a lifesize demonic image of myself. Next I was shown the face of Jesus Christ. The message was clear. If I'm going to go through the kundalini unfoldment process, make certain that I do so with Christ consciousness/love in mind.

My feeling is that kundalini represents the creative aspect of being. This creative aspect of being can used any many ways. Therefore, one needs to choose wisely. Especially since things eventually reach the point where one's subconscious becomes less obscurred, and one's tendency to make contact with spirits becomes more prevalent, after one's kundalini rises. A lot of people have had problems with their awakened kundalini.

Hello Stookie:

I've read very little of Elias. I did read Seth for a while. Gave it a good shot. After I started having experiences and receiving messages that related to Christ, I decided to see what Seth had to say about Christ. It became clear that in an underhanded way Seth puts Christ down. When I found that people stated that Elias is similar to Seth and that he denies the crucifixion, I decided to not check him out.

This doesn't mean that none of the things Seth and Elias say are true.  I figure even misleading sources have to say a significant number of things that are true, or people won't consider them at all. Hopefully they don't say too many things that set people off course.

As far as models go, I'm a fan of Robert Monroe's Ultimate Journey and Bruce Moen's books. I can't say if they are 100% true because I haven't experienced everything they've experienced. I have had experiences and received messages that told me that the higher self/disk/I-there/oversoul viewpoint is true in some way. I haven't figured out all of the details.

P.S. I have doubts about Seth for reasons other than what he says about Christ.

recoverer - Interesting subject

What do you think about the Elias model of consciousness? Do you find any truth behind the different focuses of consciousness Elias talks about? And if so, how do you think those focuses relate with Christ and the crucifixion?

Regarding Jesus Christ not getting crucified, consider how channeled sources have contradicted themselves on this matter.

Elias said: "I understand that he (Jesus) did not die in the crucifixion, but did he go to India after that? In reply, Elias claims that Jesus moved to Macedonia and died there at age 51, apparently of natural causes."

Jane Robert's Seth on the otherhand provides a completely different version. He claimed that a hoax took place and a mentally disturbed man was drugged and crucified in his place. Shortly after the supposed hoax, Jesus used his psychic powers to end his existence as a physical being.  Clearly this contradicts Elias' claim that Jesus lived until he was 51. It is also funny that Paul had to speak to Jesus's disciples in order to learn about Jesus' teachings, if Jesus could be found in Macedonia.

In her book about Jesus, Sylvia Browne claims that Jesus made a deal with Pilate, and the men who were assigned to crucify him were experts in anatomy, and resultantly were able to place stakes through his feet and hands so an artery wouldn't be damaged. This despite the fact that other people weren't crucified with stakes, and Grey's anatomy (the book, not the TV show) hadn't come out yet. They also supposedly placed a foot stool under his feet. Somehow, nobody noticed this. Later on, when nobody was around people close to Jesus (I can't remember who Sylvia named, Mary etc.) came to rescue Jesus from his tomb. If you read Sylvia's account, she basically makes Jesus sound like a wimp who wasn't brave enough to fulfill his divine destiny.

The lady who supposedly channels her deceased son Matthew, claims that Jesus was whipped rather than crucified, and lived for a number of years afterwards.

Why the contradictory stories?

And consider Seth's version.  He uses the Gospels to make his case.  Specific verses are referenced in Jane Robert's books. Seth claims that Peter denied Jesus three times, because somebody other than Jesus was taken prisoner. The problem is that there are verses where Jesus tells Peter that he would deny him three times. Why would Jesus tell him so if somebody other than Jesus is taken prisoner?

Seth also claims that Judas made the arrangements for a hoax crucifixion to take place. If this is the case, why did Jesus tell Judas that he would betray him? There are numerous verses within the gospels which show that Jesus was well aware that he would be crucified.

If somebody suggests that there might be errors in the Gospels, then why did Seth twist them in order to make his arguments?

When it comes to the man who was supposedly crucified in Jesus' place, wasn't there anybody around who knew what Jesus looked like, and would know that somebody other than Jesus was being crucified?

Wouldn't Jesus' disciples realize that Jesus was still with him when a drugged man was supposedly crucified in his place?

The way Seth spoke of the crucifixion and other things related to Jesus gives me the impression that he was looking to tarnish his reputation. For example, in the two Seth books I have, "Seth speaks" and "a nature of a personal reality," Seth referred to three of Jesus's most famous verses and completely despiritualized them.

For example when Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself, Seth said that Jesus was just making a joke, because nobody loved their neighbor at the time. Consider the below verses from Matthew:

"5:43Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy: 5:44but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you; 5:45that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust. 5:46For if ye love them that love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 5:47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same? 5:48Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

19:16And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 19:17And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. 19:18He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19:19Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 19:20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? 19:21Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 19:22But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions.

22:34But the Pharisees, when they heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, gathered themselves together. 22:35And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, trying him: 22:36Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38This is the great and first commandment. 22:39And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 22:40On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets."

Does it sound like Jesus was just making a joke when he said to love your neighbor as yourself? How about the other things he said? Thou shalt not commit murder, adultery, and should love God with all thy heart, mind and soul? Was he just making jokes? Or was he serious about those commandments, and just for the fun of it, inserted a joke about loving one's neighbor as one's self, even though he was asked what the most important commandments are?

I'm not writing what I write because I'm a fundamentalist. I went through a period where I had all kinds of doubts about Christ. Then one day I realized that I didn't really know, so I prayed and asked to find out. I have had a number of spiritual experiences (including an experience in a higher realm) and received spirit messages which told me that Jesus Christ did in fact live, is a key part of divine reality, and was crucified.

One series of symbolic visual messages was as follows: First I was shown a crucifix. I asked why. I was shown an image which is a bit complicated to explain, but basically said that "They killed him (Jesus), they put him on display, they spotted his reputation." Next I experienced myself press the high C note on my piano (not physically) which I understood to symbolically mean that he represents the highest consciousness there is. I've also received some other messages which showed that Jesus was crucified.

So what kind of shenanigans are sources such as Elias and Seth up to?

In the 1820s some people tried to suggest Revelations is about events that have yet to come; however, if you read Revelations and consider the historical situation of the time, this scripture definitely pertains to the time period in which it was written.

666 refers to Nero Caesar,  a man who used to give Christians (and other people) quite a hard time.

Here's a good article on the subject.

http://www.reformed.org/eschaton/beast.html

Here's an article which shows that the beast in Revelations does nothing to prove the existence of a fallen angel satan.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sojouner/devil/devil%20ch3.html

Neither does Isaiah prove the existence of a fallen angel devil, as some people believe.

http://www.red-ice.net/specialreports/2005/11nov/lucifer.html

Below is the relevant text before fallen angel language was added, along with a couple of paragraphs of commentary from the site from which the below can be found.

Taunt of the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:4b-21)
Is 14:4b "Look how the oppressor has met his end!
Hostility has ceased!
14:5The Lord has broken the club of the wicked,
the scepter of rulers.
14:6It furiously struck down nations
with unceasing blows.
It angrily ruled over nations,
oppressing them without restraint.
14:7The whole earth rests and is quiet;
they break into song.
14:8The evergreens also rejoice over your demise,
as do the cedars of Lebanon, singing,
'Since you fell asleep,
no woodsman comes up to chop us down!'
14:9Sheol below is stirred up about you,
ready to meet you when you arrive.
It rouses the spirits of the dead for you,
all the former leaders of the earth;
it makes all the former kings of the nations
rise from their thrones.
14:10All of them respond to you, saying:
'You've also become weak like us!
You've become just like us!
14:11Your splendor has been brought down to Sheol,
as well as the sound of your stringed instruments.
You lie on a bed of maggots,
with a blanket of worms over you.
14:12Look how you have fallen from the sky,
O shining one, son of the dawn!
You've been cut down to the ground,
O conqueror of the nations!
14:13You said to yourself,
"I will climb up to the sky.
Above the stars of El
I will set up my throne.
I will rule on the mountain of assembly
on the remote slopes of Zaphon.
14:14I will climb up to the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High!"
14:15But you were brought down to Sheol,
to the remote slopes of the pit.
14:16Those who see you stare at you,
they look at you carefully, thinking:
"Is this the man who shook the earth,
the one who made kingdoms tremble?
14:17Is this the one who made the world like a desert,
who ruined its cities,
and refused to free his prisoners so they could return home?"'
14:18As for all the kings of the nations,
all of them lie down in splendor,
each in his own tomb.
14:19But you have been thrown out of your grave
like a shoot that is thrown away.
You lie among the slain,
among those who have been slashed by the sword,
among those headed for the stones of the pit,
as if you were a mangled corpse.
14:20You will not be buried with them,
because you destroyed your land
and killed your people.
The offspring of the wicked will never be mentioned again.
14:21Prepare to execute his sons for what their ancestors have done.
They must not rise up and take possession of the earth,
or fill the surface of the world with cities."

This passage is an imaginative poem.  Its content is a taunt.   Just as the trees didn't literally "get down and party" when the king of Babylon died (14:, we shouldn't read the description of Sheol as a theological treatise on the afterlife.

The passage is clearly about the literal Babylon (14:4a, 22) and her human king (14:16).  As the epitome of evil, the language used to describe the arrogance of the king of Babylon here is used by Paul to describe an eschatological "man of lawlessness" in 2 Th 2:4 (cf. Isa 14:13-14).  But Paul is not interpeting this passage in Isaiah as referring to him, but rather using the language as a sort of cliche; at most, he is treating the king of Babylon as a type of the man of lawlessness.

Historically, it has been a common practice to spiritualize this entire passage to be about Satan rather than the human king of Babylon.  This misinterpretation is behind much popular mythology about Satan.  The reference in 14:11 to his string instruments (which in context would not refer to the king's personal instruments, but the instruments of the musicians at his court -- compare with David playing the harp at Saul's court) is behind the myth of Satan originally being the chief musician of heaven until he attempted to rebel and take over.  Whatever the actual details of Satan's fall from heaven, this passage is not about that.

The above scripture and commentary comes from this site.

http://www.jeff-jackson.com/new/religion/eschatology/Isaiah13-14.html


As far as I'm concerned, it really doesn't make sense that an angel who is in the presence of the love and light of God could fall. Some people would suggest that having a free will would enable an angel to fall, but having a free will doesn't mean that you have to act like a complete idiot. Especially not if the wisest way to go is so completely obvious.

dmoney:

Perhaps your energy body is being cleaned out. Out with the old (sin), in with the new (sacred). It might even have a relation to what's going on with your ringing ears.

I've found that if I stearnly say "stop" when my ears ring, they'll stop ringing. However, if energy work is being done, you might not want the ringing to stop until it's time for them to stop.

You might ask the same part of you that sent you the message, to ease up a bit with the ringing ears, because it's over doing it.

P.S. It is hard to say for certain what is going on with you, from an internet post.

this morning before school, I was downstairs watching TV. I was really tired, so I closed my eyes really quickly and before i fell asleep, I heard in my head " He's pushin up sin and sacred" the part that got me was sin and sacred. I know why i heard he's pushin up, because i heard the TV say " he's pushin daisies now." what doe sin and sacred mean?

I experience guides working with my energy on a regular basis. I've also felt what felt like hands. The effects are positive.

Recently I've had something growing on my left temple. One night while my energy was being worked on, I pointed to my temple and mentally let the guide know that something might be wrong there. Immediately the energy started working on my temple, and did so for a couple of minutes. The growth is going away.

Perhaps it's possible to be aware of ourselves with different perspectives, and you just happened to experience yourself with a broader one. Even though it was more expansive than usual, it still seems kind of body oriented.

I don't think I'd want to be conscious of every little thing that goes on within my body. What I experience is enough. I'd rather experience myself as a conscious/energy being that is beyond the body.


At times I guess, it's good to limit our awareness. Imagine that.

Dragonhawk:

I heard a couple of voices this morning shortly after I woke up.

A woman's voice said: "Who are you?" Not in the context of she wanted to know who I am. Rather in the context of this is a question I should ask myself.

A man's voice said: "The area of expertise is in the heart."

The voices didn't sound like physical voices. More like dream voices, even though I was fully conscious.

Interesting enough, what they said relates to what I've been meditating on lately. Perhaps I should focus on "who am I" and wisdom through the heart more even more. I can be a bit cerebral at times, and this gets in the way of me listening to my heart.

Perhaps it's a matter of trusting your own love and power more, than the power of some negative entity.

wow, you guys talk about not being scrared of negs. My queston is how cant u be scared. Cant they mess with you when u ap. Like you said it pulled on your wrist. I think that would scare the hell out of me. But maybe if you could feel it to be a positive person.

I'm not going to believe in that walk in thing, just because somebody claims that such a thing exists.  

I guess if somebody can make something up, somebody will end up believing in it.

Regarding the original question, I'll be responsible and take care of the burden of living this physical life time. Plus, I think I have a thing or two to figure out, before I go back to the spirit World. I wouldn't want to have to have another birth (or be the cause of another birth) , because I didn't take care of everything, or at least close to everything, I need to take care of in this lifetime.


P.S. Are souls just little things that get smushed down into bodies?

I've had similar experiences. I've had some meditations where I went from experiencing a lot of energy at the top of my head or heart to chin area, to feeling as if those parts of my body were missing. It seems as if when ones focus on the physical body is diminished, one experiences ones self in a non-physical way.

I also often experience neck soreness after meditation. I believe that kundalini causes it. Kundalini is more subtle than the physical body, so it pushes right through it, and in some way causes muscle fibers to tense up.  Its ability to do so seems to have some relation to its ability to make different parts of your body twitch.

If a block was interfering with the flow of kundalini in a significant way, you would probably feel some pain while you meditate, not just immediately after wards. Or at the very least you would feel that the energy is getting bottled up at a certain area.

To get rid of a block, I try to get rid of the psychological/emotional issue that is causing it. I find the issue in several ways. One, I'll focus my awareness on the area for which the block occurs, and try to get an intuition of what psychological issue is causing the block. Two, I''ll ask my inner self to present me with an image that gives me a clue of what psychological issue is causing the block. Three, I pay attention to my dreams, and they tell me things about myself and life. Several times they have told me about issues that  have caused energy blocks.

I don't know if the energy flow will reach a point where I won't get neck soreness at all after I meditate. It does seem like I have some throat chakra issues to get through. Whatever the case, the soreness doesn't last for long, and is well worth it.

The above is some of what I've experienced thus far. I'm still figuring it out.

I woke up with a hand or two touching me last night. It moved about to different parts of my body, sort of in a methodical way. At first I was resistant to whatever was touching me.  While it was touching my back, I turned over onto my back in order to stop it, but my mattress didn't prevent it from doing so. I tried to communicate with it, but all I could hear is a small squealing sound (I don't think my throat chakra is developed enough).  Anyway, the hand/hands kept moving and touching different parts of my body. After a while the little bit of fear I felt diminished to almost no fear. I had some faith that the hand/hands were trying to help me. After all, I've been getting a lot of help from my higher self/spirit World lately. I was touched for more than 5 minutes.

Right after wards, I had a shifting sensation within my entire left hip area. It sort of felt like kundalini feels when it moves around. It seemed to do so in a methodical manner. Even though I kept feeling the movement by my hip area, it seemed as if it was moving to my neck area. I experienced it in two different ways at the same time.

So what happened? Perhaps my energy body was being worked on. Or perhaps that which I am connected to in the spirit World is trying to help me get over my fear of hearing voices for prolonged periods of time (I've heard them for short periods of time).  The mental messages I got this morning were: "You don't become afraid when you see things, and you don't become afraid even when hands touch you for more than 5 minutes. So why should you be afraid of hearing voices?"

I don't know anything about Crystals.

cool dude. Question.. Ive read some things on phasing and how you can use crystals and stuff.. You think you could use your tv for something like that. I mean it almost looks clear and endless.

A few times while meditating, I've seen my TV on with something being shown in a very clear way, even though my TV was turned off.  And I didn't see reruns.  

My knowledge isn't complete enough to suggest that a person could "never" be harmed by a negative spirit.  It does seem like their presence gets exaggerated.

Whatever the case, I don't believe it's good to let ones spiritual progress get hindered by fear. I did that for a while and don't intend to do so again. My basic belief is that if you don't give a negative spirit anything to work with, it won't be able to mess with you in a manner that really matters. When it comes to your awareness, what could they possibly do to it? They might be able to give you a lot of creepy things to be aware of (  boo!), but how could any of those things touch your awareness? I've been aware of a lot of things during my life and my awareness hasn't been effected yet.    

Thanks for the good reply recoverer, I'm not going to let negative spirits change my mind about astral projection, after all if they can't harm anyone.

Sounds inspiring.

~


I used to be a member of the spiritual cinema. They only have
good spiritual movies that don't make it to the theater. The
thing about those movies is they tend to make you cry.      


very emotional stuff      

I must add that it's kind of strange that people are afraid of spirits, considering that in truth they are spirits.  I think the spirit world needs a better publicity agent. There are way too many negative rumors about it. You would think that it is all bad.  What's up with all these horror movies over the past year or so? Why doesn't somebody make a positive spirit movie for a change?