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Great F2oC experience! Please share more!

That just sounds extraordinary!

I cant imagine how you must have felt afterwords.

If i were to venture a guess, it would be that you stepped in to one of your seperate focuses living his own life in a different physical reality. did it seem that way to you or does it seem like something else entirely?

He said follow the way of natural curiosity. If the same logic applies, one would find that this will naturally lead to more curiosity, hopefully retaining the openness that doubt offers without gullibility.

I can see the truth in that. But it seems there are few who are naturally curious and not bound by a belief system for either OBEs being more than brain induced, or OBEs actually being a product of the brain.

I guess the point of my previous post was that it made much of being too doubtful without touching on the fact that having too much belief can be equally as harmfull.

If only that were the problem in todays world haha

I think he didnt touch on the area of releasing too much belief because that isnt a typical reaction to the dream environment. Most people fall into the trap of releasing fear, doubt, or anxiety while in that environment. Which of course causes more manifestations of that fear, doubt, or anxiety. Not too many people have the balls to go the other way.

They key is simply not to release any emotional energy. it takes awhile to get used to im sure but if you dont you will get "reality fluctuations" galore, which is basically just when an emotion manifests itself around you. emotions are a necessary part of physical life but in other areas of reality they can be a hindrance. good thing we have free will

I would agree that the most accurate way to test the validity of OBE would probably be conducted in the RTZ.  I realize that Monroe did conduct many of his own personal experiments with the RTZ with some hopeful results.  One in which he went OOB and traveled to his office to lightly pinch his secretary.  The result was that he pinched quite hard and gave her a bruise.  Unless it were a hoax (which wouldn't be all that difficult to pull off) instances such as that would be very hard to explain away as not real.  As far as hallucinations however I don't think it would be "not smart" to say they are not real.  That would bring us deep into philosophy I imagine, but basically it's an argument as to whether or not truth and perception are the same thing.  Some would say that because you see something it must be there, because at least it's true for that one individual.  The counterpoint is that if we see something that isn't there that doesn't mean the object is true, but that perception has been altered away from truth.  I would argue that hallucinations are not truth but that the individual experiencing them is being decieved, mainly by him or herself.  To hear voices doesn't mean that anyone is talking to you but that the mind has somehow triggered within itself that act which it would undertake if someone were actually talking to you.  The brain is decieved and the hallucination of the voices is not truth.  It could be said that if OBE are in fact real then the RTZ would most likely be the most reliable info because it can be varified, whereas traveling to other dimensions or speaking with dead relatives could be the mind undertaking the same act as it would in dreams or hallucinations, and therefor potentially be "not real".

For all intents and purposes, hallucinations are indeed real. But many people have adopted a way of thinking that suggests whats in your mind is somehow NOT real. Your thoughts are just as real as the keyboard your typing on. You just arent percieving the energies the same way.

I think it all stems from the belief that your mind = your brain. They are two VERY different things that serve very different purposes. after all its not your mind controlling the keys you type on when you are entering a message on the keyboard, its your brain. your mind is just telling your brain what to type.

The problem is, alpha, that science isnt to the point were we can provide this "proof" to the general population. We're getting there, in 20 to 40 years everyone will be "projecting" through the use of computer software and all this stuff will be common knowledge.

Also, its not smart to think of hallucinations as "not real." when you do project you will be seeing ALOT of hallucinations as they are just products of your emotions.

You could, with modern techniques, scientifically prove that information gained during an RTZ OBE is correct. Just because it isn't in the general scientific consensus doesn't mean it can't be proved.

no, but proof isnt the factor here, its belief. you can give a scientist as many undocumented cases of people proving something in the RTZ you want and they wont care. as long as its not done in a lab using scientific method it is garbage in the eyes of science.

The problem is, alpha, that science isnt to the point were we can provide this "proof" to the general population. We're getting there, in 20 to 40 years everyone will be "projecting" through the use of computer software and all this stuff will be common knowledge.

Also, its not smart to think of hallucinations as "not real." when you do project you will be seeing ALOT of hallucinations as they are just products of your emotions.

Well, excrement happens and life sux, my opinion of course.

if you really believe that then excrement WILL indeed happen and life will indeed suck

I have to question where and when I incurred all the negative Karma I seem forced to deal with.  I know that the world/universe is not out to get any one particular person, and your reality and happiness is directly a result of not so much the situations you deal with but how you deal with them........But come on already, when is enough..you know enough.  The last few months have been particularly trying.  Truck broken into, truck ran into while on vacation, a horrid vacation on top of that, personal stuff stolen from vehicle after that, forced to move back in with parents due largely to my indecisive cousin, switched jobs only to find more opposition, a co-worker who is a child and thinks he is my boss, and yet more theft of my personal stuff from work.  And those are just the highlights.  I had hopes that this year would bring, at the very least, an end to all these things that keep happening to me.  You know I can handle this going wrong in life.....It happens....you get a flat, car won't start, screw ups at work, bad relationships, things I can understand, they happen.  But it feels so much like I have become a target for stupid people to screw with my life.

These things are starting to seriously impact my spiritual self.  I am not able to see how I can grow as a spiritual being while having to deal with all of this crap.  Each instance makes it more and more difficult to keep the positive, although realistic, view I normally have on life.  My thoughts become more and more pessimistic as the days continue.  And it seems the more time I spend trying to improve my moral things just get worse.

I just don't know what to do any more......

so I'll stop now...the rant is over.

Welcome to western society!

If you dont like your situation...MOVE! move to the country, grow vegetables, LIVE like a spiritual being. you cant have the best of both the consumer ego-satisfying society and the inner-ego satisfying lifestyle.

If you draw happiness out of objects like your car and your house and your job, then when you lose these things you lose your happiness. The trick then, is simple! focus your happiness on YOURSELF and nothing can be lost! move out to the country and start practicing meditation/astral projection/lucid dreaming whatever you want to call it. thats just my opinion considering the way things are at the moment

Every situation you face in life you put yourself in. Life doesnt happen TO YOU, it is something you create in an ongoing basis. Blaming karma is just rationalization, i would get rid of that belief right away. It seems to me, no offense, that you have a sort of "victim mentality." The problem with that is if you think you are a victim of something, wether it be bad karma or an abusive husband, you will continually find yourself becoming a victim of said belief. Which is why people who say they have bad luck always DO have bad luck, and abused wives always end up with yet another wife-beater. Change your belief to something along the lines of "im sick of creating bad circumstances for myself, from now on i will only allow positive energy and positive scenarios into my life." it may seem simple but the more you buy into it the more you will believe it, and the more you believe it the more you will see evidence of it in your life, and it will only get better and better

I'm sure that many of us have been exposed, on small level, to the increasingly popular idea of Out of Body Experiences. Believers, and more importantly those of "experience", have stated time and time again, in now almost countless books that the experience of leaving ones body is in fact more real than waking life itself. They state that it's such a profoud experience that it can't be denied any more than denying that we are alive right now (which some philosophers do in fact argue atimately). The problem with this is that we have to take the stories at face value. After all, how can it be proven? How do you test and retest and scrutinize the existence of conciousness outside the body? An important question would be whether or not we can know, beyond science, the validity of an OBE?
Obviously with something like this there will be much doubt. But with so many individuals claiming to experience this state of conciousness it can't be simply overlooked. It's entirely probable that they whole-heartedly believe they did in fact leave there bodies. So the most obvious answer is a hallucination within the mind. They can be powerful things. We won't go into discussion at this time as to the physiological reasons why the hallucination occurs... unless someone has a theory. The question is "why is it believed to be so real?" If the hallucination was doing it's job right then it would clearly be experienced as reality.
The next idea is a dream state. After all, every human has experienced a dream. A state in which during the experience you believe it to be reality. But as individuals we can define a dream by that state that seems real at the time, but upon waking was obvious an inner working of the mind itself. So why is it that after an OBE the individual still believes the experience to be real and valid and not a the dream state that we are all accustomed to?
Opinions and insights?

OBEs are whatever you believe them to be.

If you believe they are products of your brain, products of your brain they will become. If you believe they are a gateway to other worlds, a gateway to other worlds they will become.

The point isnt are they "real" or "not real." Your asking the wrong question. These people arent lying about their experiences. The question is "what are they." Once you get past the question you are currently at, which is basically "can i do them or not myself", you just dont know it, you can get to the real good parts. Because once you realize they do indeed exist you can subscribe to a belief in OBEs. and that is the most important part. Belief.

If you sincerely believe in out of body experiences, and you believe you can have them, you will. All these techniques and rules and beliefs and ideas serve one purpose- to change your belief from "obes are not real." to "i am having an obe."

Dont believe me? Try it yourself. Open up your doors of belief for awhile and see where it takes you. Changing your beliefs doesnt hurt anything anyway. And i guarentee you wont be sorry you did

In my opinion its just an extension of your thoughts coming to life around you. You start to pick up on non physical stimuli that you would otherwise consider a "thought" and pay no attention to. Many people hear many different things, and just because they have nothing to do with anything or seem nonsensical doesnt mean they arent creations of your mind. I would ignore them and focus on relaxing deeper/mentally "pushing forward."

Cool report. I know exactly how you feel. Its so hard to keep a straight mind when your in that environment. I cant even put my head through my bedroom window or il just go black. but if i stay in my room i find my experience will last much longer.

My next big learning curve is travel. Probably take me another 3 years. drive

Aw, cmon, dont say that. Or it WILL take 3 years

can anyone upload the picture or scan it in or something? id love to see it.

[If you have a copy of Astral Dynamics, on the back there is a graphical representation of what mystics typically call an Astral Plane Entrance Structure. These "structures" are a remarkable sight, totally awe inspiring, in fact.]

Look what i found

Creating an awareness of multiple focuses of attention at the same time is perfectly possible. I've said before that if someone really wants to confuse themselves silly, then offer an awareness of all 4 primary focuses of attention at once, lol. The experience of deja-vu is a dual awareness of F1 and F2, for example. We are what is known as a source/manifest reality system. The local source for our actions in consciousness within F1 is F2. So by offering yourself a dual awareness of F1 and F2 brings about the deja-vu effect.

All you need to do is: when you feel that crackling static-electricity feeling in your head, then concentrate on the point where you feel it is coming from in your head. Then you should feel it intensify, like the pressure gets turned up a bit. Keep turning it up and, at some point, you will "take off". Just allow this to happen. In a way it's like being on a roller coaster that runs absolutely silently in the pitch darkness. With me I keep switching direction here and there. Sometimes it chops and changes direction a lot, and other times not so much. Often you will feel yourself hurtling in one direction at an incredible speed and you'll get fearful of hitting something, lol.

Eventually, you will come to a stop. Don't try to force it to stop, just let the experience unfold as it wants. Don't be surprised also to come across all manner of tunnel or tube formations. Doing this you are still within the physical, it's just that the physical encompasses a far wider extent of actions than people suppose. At some point in your travel experience you'll make a switch. You don't have to, but chances are you will. At which point you will appear at some place. Where that may be is anyone's guess, which is all part of the fun!

Usually I "emerge" within F3 somewhere. But not always. Often I might hang around the physical. But when I say the physical I don't mean some kind of RTZ experience. As I say, there are many, many wondrous phenomena to be enjoyed within F1oC. If you have a copy of Astral Dynamics, on the back there is a graphical representation of what mystics typically call an Astral Plane Entrance Structure. These "structures" are a remarkable sight, totally awe inspiring, in fact.

Yours,
Frank

So in reality these probably dont have much to do with "vibrations" and "magical jewels" but probably some other purpose.

it was awhile since i posted but here is a weird one. it started like a dream and i decided to project, so i left the dream. i was just flying around and i looked down and i was flying above an urban environment. a nice neighborhood, houses, gardens, a railroad track in the outskirts. I landed in a garden and their was a woman with an really ugly or
ange dress, it felt like i was in the 1950's or 60's.I started to talk to her like i new her, i think i loved her, not me but this other me, it was as i was two persons at the same time. Maby this is how it feels to possess someone, Anyway this woman was going to travel to USA, and this other me was sad and didn't want so split with her, but this woman couldn't care less. It was obvious that she was disappointed to see me.Then i woke up feeling weirder then ever

Its an overlay effect. Sometimes when you encounter people you can feel their emotions and the constructs they are experiencing somewhat. Its also possible that the woman was a seperate focus of yourself, or an acquantaince of one of your physical focuses. I would investigate further

the hypnogaugic images you get while falling asleep are not phasing.

phasing requires you to "look past" those images. then you cant retain your awareness and access all the fun areas of conscisousness while you are fully aware. Its like a game of cat and mouse- you have to let your focus shift while loosening your awareness then something will happen to cause you to "snap back." each time you snap back you will be further and further "away" from the physical. then you can enter the 3d-blackness and either explore F2oC or F3oC.

As you get better and better the transition becomes smoother, until you get to the point where you can lay down and get to F2oC in about 10-15 minutes.

Ben - I've not seen Vanilla Sky - is it good?

They do go from gobsmacked when I initially tell them, then disbelief (as Ben says), then they start to get wary of me and I can feel them backing away.

When I tell them I can prove it, they become interested, then when I walk through walls and stuff, they come full circle to being gobsmacked again.

Then of course, they want to walk through walls...  

Sarah

Yeah i personally love it...its all about lucid dreaming and it brings up some interesting ideas.

I wont give away anything but you should check it out if only for the end

Im sure when you are actually there in a lucid dream or whatever, alot of different factors are involved when you tell someone they are a dream charactor. Id love to hear some other peoples experiences with this  

il stay for awhile...i always enjoy reading the old posts by frank and co.

How did they react?

Gobsmacked mostly.

Exactly.  Its like their mind melts down and suddenly they realize they are just a part of your imagination.  This combined with a "What the  :eyetwitch:  are you talking about?" look.  One or both of those usually.

its like in "vanilla sky"...they react how you imagine them reacting. in this case you are telling a person they are not real so the reaction of disbelief might be common  

Sure, I've definitely felt love during astral projections.  

Quite a few times, I've seen deceased loved ones: my fiance, my grandmother, my unborn son.  And recently I had an experience with what I consider an aspect of God in human form.

hah! funny thing is the "normal" people you see when you project probably think the same thing about you! i would be hesitant to put the label of "god" on anything, even though to YOU it might seem "god-like."

the reason you felt that way i strongly suspect was more to do with the way the energy translated than anything else. he/she was probably an inhabitant of the higher branches of FoC3, which to us might seem "god-like" but i can assure you it is a normal "person" just like you and me You are going to meet all kinds of "god-like", "demon-like", "alien-like" beings. but most of the feelings you get whilst projecting are just translations of energy you are not familiar with.

[right before]

I found that  right before I find myself flashing to a place like the inside of my car, I'd think of a trigger sign of where ever I wanted to go to.

Hi Tracy

Thanks for your input - it's greatly appreciated.  

A question for you - how on earth do you know 'right before' an image is going to appear?  You see, I have absolutely no idea.  I'm lying there, minding my own business, probably about to drift into the land of nod and then suddenly bells and whistles are blowing and I'm mentally jumping up and down pointing at a picture I can see.  I have no awareness that it's going to happen until it does.

And even if I did place Intent to visit Stonehenge, for instance, as soon as I saw the picture of Stonehenge in my mind, bells and whistles would be blowing and I'd be mentally jumping up and down pointing at the stones yelling "yeeeehaaahhh, I did it, I did it!!" and that would be the end of that.

I may be able to provide some insight.

I had an experience this morning that sounds exactly like Tracy was describing. It was pretty cool. I drank a fair amount of booze last night, so this morning i woke up at 7:30 for some reason. an hour later, i knew that reason as i was puking my guts out. anyway i went back to bed and had a couple experiences that i vaguely remember. my memory when it comes to this stuff still sucks but its getting better.

Anyway the first time i realized i was in the 3d darkness so i started imagining a scenario. i dont quite remember what it was but i do remember some trees and a twilight-ish sky. very vague, hehe. i got a distinct feeling that "I" was creating this picture in the 3d darkness so i made it dissapear and my awareness dropped. the next time ibecame lucid i decided to play around with creation a little bit. there is a very distinct feeling of creation when i was doing this, the problem was i had absolutely no control. i pictured a scenario where i was in the middle of some road with a van coming straight at me in full 3d. so i sort of aborted the situation and my awareness once again dropped.

The third time i came awake i decided i wanted to tone down the experience a bit. i found myself staring at the astral screen effect, which was a little scary at first. i definitly felt boxed in, like i was at the back of a small movie theatre or something. i saw on the screen a picture of a girl running through a forest or something, i dont quite remember. but i do remember the screen was in black and white, which seemed strange.

Anyway, back to the intent thing. IMO its a skill that you have to develop. Ive also had thoughts like "wow im actually doing it!" but you just have to learn to go with the flow. Fear can be a huge barrier, and i also deal with it whenever i practice. In the end its all about realizing its all in your head and theres no harm that can be done, as intense as things can get  

Ben

Going by franks focus levels, if you create a structure in F3oC, the common area of consciousness, it will stay until someone changes it.

You could probably do the same thing in F2oC with some practice.

Simple and real is the way to go

Hey Mrs Murphy!

That is a great idea, I think you should consider writing such a story!

It makes sense to me that as our lives are being lived in a variety of different time periods, it is no wonder that we think of them in a linear sequence, and it may only be recently that people have begun to work out what actually happens.

As our long held linear perception of reinacarnation is so focused on the past, this may be why the vast majority of accounts deal with 'past' lives. maybe once people realise that our lives cover a broad spectrum of time, we will begin to see more 'future' life accounts.

Great points. Altough i would like to add that perhaps the reason we dont see any "future lives" is precisely because all of our physcial lives are happening at once. so it would make sense no one could access something that, to our minds, and to the minds of our other focuses- hasnt happened yet.

When people literally see the "past" such as when they see a past life out of the 1800s or 1700s they could simply be accessing the memories of one of their other focuses. naturally they couldnt access any information from the "future" because for all intents and purposes, the "future" hasnt happened yet. and maybe all these "future" experiences people have are just scenarios taking into account probability and not fact. ive heard alot of talk about "probability" when it comes to quantam mechanics and im sure that leaks into the macro-verse as well.

just a thought.

Unfortunately there is a new issue which may complicate matters and that is the theory of parallel universes or timelines.  Frank's latest findings seem to suggest that we ALSO experience lives in a whole multitude of parallel earth timelines as well as our own.  
You can imagine the headache involved in any kind of verification then, as any accounts we have of past events or indeed the future may actually be those of alternate timelines, not our own, so just because someone's account of the past or the future is not quite accurate from our point of view, that may not mean it is not true!

For example, much has been made of Seth's 'historical error' when he claims he was a pope leading armies during the 4th century ad.
Now, popes at that time did not have that kind of power, therefore discrediting Seth in many people's eyes. However, what if this WAS true in Seth's own experience which may have occured in a very close but parallel timeline.

Exactly! Ive thought the same things. I dont think the future is set in stone.

we always have free will. so any projection of the future in my mind is just a projection of probabilities.

cancer is just another thing we choose to explore through physical existance, imo. just a way to "go out" besides getting killed or dying of old age.

The way i look at it the F1-F4 levels describe areas of consciousness  only in our system. that is our source/manifest system of reality we got going on here. all the ideas are at f4, these ideas get gradually more objective as you go down your consciousness continuum.

Who knows whats "beyond" our system though. whole different systems with entirely different rules than we can comprehend as humans. i think its amazing. imho, existance is definitly not limited to the F1-F4, and the only way i think we can know for sure is to stick out this ride of life and experience it for ourselves.