Messages

I have some tricks to invoke help while traveling. Asking questions aloud and plugging the ears of my dream body has a great potential for communication. Most of the times I didn't understand the first words because tuning to the voice takes some time. Some voices are like coming from a telephone center coupled with some mechanical noises, others seem to come from real persons. I have been heard a broad range of voices from young boys to old ladies. I need more experimentation to uncover all the possible sources, however it has been proven that most voices comes from other dreamers and independent entities.

Once I tried to believe that a voice of a young man I was heard in a dream came from someone who is outside the scope of my perception. When I imagined that he we in a situation of trying to speak through invisible walls, I experienced a brief sensory chaos. The next moment I found myself in a calm conversation with him sitting at a table. Our dreams seemd to mixed around the focal point of that table. Later I worked out a simple method for uniting sensory bubbles based on a specific attention driving similar I've described in my guide.

On the other hand, the robotic voices seem to come from my energy body/subconsciousness. I've found that dealing with my energy body is require hightened awareness and clear purpose. I've reached a point where I use real definitons to get a desired outcome. This is especially true when I'm fly in an autopilot mode. It happened to me after many years of flying that got to point where I'm practically unable to fly on my own. There is a gloomy environment between lucid dreams and RTZ-projections. Well that is where I got stuck. Moving is very difficult in that state yet I've observed a heavy traffic. Sometimes the autopilot function of my energy body the only option to move. Sometmes it seems indistinguishable from getting external help.

I could use regular dream characters as shells to let guidance into my dreams. All I have to do is talk to dream people as they are already would be animated by the person/force I want to contact with. I create an empty shell by asking aloud a family members to come in, then I start to controll our conversation by pretending that the figure is already inhabited by my target. They look will change accordingly, mostly in unnoticided jumps. I am still extremly cautious with those "people" because my experiences make me believe that some odd things are waiting outside of my sensory bubble all the time ready to use any means to get inside.

Recently I got the idea for an another method that seems the most secure so far. What I do is simply speaking to the air like someone would be at that spot. It's funny but works great if I want more than a disembodied sound, but not want to go as far as to manifest a full apparition. I've read an interesting article about the connection between lateral preference of sensed presence and its emotional connotation so the next time I would try to imagine my guide at my left. By the way, the most friendy helps I could ever get seem to choose this invisible form. This forms represent an unobtrusive but potent help, something that able to transport quickly and without exerting any uncertain aim. Sometimes they transport me as a wind or armchar, sometimes I feel myself being grabbed at the level of my stomach.

I'm interested in your experiences with the polarity flip maneuver (I like this name!)

quote:Frank wrote to Major Tom:

quote: It's amazing how you say you are trying for a year to work on getting from the RTZ into the Astral, when I was trying the exact opposite for ages. I'd always go from physical to Astral and could never get into the real-time zone.

Yes, it seems we come from opposdite directions with each its own unique challenges. I even once unconsciously had invisible hands trying to stop me from flying off in the 3d darkness, although the second body was already formed.

Then it was Frank when you collided to each other in the middle of F21, hehe.  Greeting to everyone.

When I saw the title F15 I thought I would find a nice discussion about a state I've never experienced before, but look what the hell I found? Hehe an even more greater conversation.

As far as I know F21 is the gate to Locale Two, therefore focus levels below 21 are correspond with Local One, the real-time zone. I've accomplished many forced separation from a state in which I felt myself trapped in a honey like substance (deep F10 I think). These projections tend to bypass the RTZ-state because the heavy substance makes me blind. After the honey is saved back by a cable like structure, the result is indistinguishable from those dreams that regularly follows an F21-separation - my basic method to project. However, I have to note, they are not real separations (there is no pull). It is like simply getting out of my bed into the darkness. The result is, when I get my vision back, the mental representation of my bedroom somewhere around the lower F22, I think.

I'm not an expert in Phasing but I have some experiences and insights that may be of interest. Generally, I think Phasing is simply an internal OBE in which the projector don't make any affort to separate after the first split of his consciousness (that required to reach F12) has accomplished. Although the F12-projection has already occured, the projector is either unaware of this fact or his consciousness is directed for the appearence of

a.) the "astral screen" effect that marks the onset of a secondary internal projection which required for reaching F21 (REM-sleep) is already in progress
b.) the "3D blackness" which is an indicative of the decondensation/expansion process of the F12 body which may or may not include F21

As I see it, the main difference between phasing and OBE is the split of the F12 body. Its low energy copy is exteriorised into the RTZ could be lost before reintegration takes place. On the other hand, phasing is an expansion of the F12 body through a cone like structure that allows seamless download of information.

I had one very intense experience about the reverse process of expansion when I tried to get back into my body by spinning the energy field around it from my astral state. The next moment I found myself hovering above the land in the form of an enormous cloud. I couldn't see but sensed my environment perfectly. I felt myself moving in the general direction from which I came. I gradually get a spinning motion and a more dense body. Just before I slipt through the walls of my house I got a more regular vision. I saw myelf from the direction of my physical as well. I entered the room at the upper corner of the room above the door then rapidly spun into my body. I was still spinning inside for a minute before I tried to separate again.

Regarding the tunnel experience seems like you have had a real astral projection. Congratulations!

I think you have just found your method. Try to repeat it by recreating the conditions you had at that time.

quote:Is it possible to OBE without the rolling/pulling yourself out of the body?

Definately. Even RTZ-OBEs are possible that way. Bodies that are able to travel great distances are not connected to our phyical body (they are composed from virtual particles that condensated out from the vacuum at our localised RTZ perception).

Feelings of getting out of our body either could be "false" or "real." It's tend to be false in those cases when you have no vision from the very beggining and/or you have no feelings of being pulled back. These experiences start like you would getting out of your bed blindly. After having your sight again you would find yourself in the mental representation of your bedroom as it is being modified by your sunconsciousness (somewhere around the lower F22).

As an opposite, in real OBEs your separation efforts would drag out a little amount etheric substance that have to be saved back before you slip through the RTZ into F22-dreaming.

hey Dark, try this:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13708

[image]http://img1.uploadimages.net/924516ufobuilder.jpg[/image]

It's me. Just finished my latest project.

Not a stupid question at all, but considering the importance of Phasing and my limited experiences with it, I'm afraid I'm not a qualified person to answer you.

My experiences with Phasing are limited to my first two years of OBEing. At that time I was thought it is an advanced form of dreaming - something I still believe in. For me the meaning of dreaming is that has changed forever.

As you may already know, Phasing is technically a special form of WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dream) in which you would go directly into the dream state without having the feelings of leaving your body.

Until recently, I was more interested in its theoretical aspects. Now it seems I'm at the verge of unite those theories with my OBE & dreaming practices to form a new, personal style of OBEing.

I cant stop until I find my peace,

>>> upstream

The etheric double is dreaming the dream body. The dream body become the etheric double when you match its position with your physical body, because the etheric double mimic the position of the physical body.

I've copied and pasted the excerpts below from CC's book the 'Art Of Dreaming':

quote:She said that the gifts she had given to the naguals of my line had to do with what the old sorcerers used to call the twin positions. That is to say, the initial position in which a dreamer holds his physical body to begin dreaming is mirrored by the position in which he holds his energy body, in dreams, to fixate his assemblage point on any spot of his choosing. The two positions make a unit, she said, and it took the old sorcerers thousands of years to find out the perfect relationship between any two positions.

quote:"Explain to me what you mean by the twin positions, or the initial position in which a dreamer holds his body to start dreaming." I said.
"How do you lie down to start your dreaming?" she asked.
"Any which way. I don't have a pattern. Don Juan never stressed this point."
"Well, I do stress it," she said and stood up.
She changed positions. She sat down to my right and whispered in my other ear that, in accordance with what she knew, the position in which one places the body is of utmost importance. She proposed a way of testing this by performing an extremely delicate but simple exercise.
"Start your dreaming by lying on your right side, with your knees a bit bent," she said. "The discipline is to maintain that position and fall asleep in it. In dreaming, then, the exercise is to dream that you lie down in exactly the same position and fall asleep again."
"What does that do?" I asked.
"It makes the assemblage point stay put, and I mean really stay put, in whatever position it is at the instant of that second falling asleep."
"What are the results of this exercise?"
"Total perception. I am sure your teachers have already told you that my gifts are gifts of total perception."

quote:This is a dream. You are at the fourth gate of dreaming, dreaming my dream."
She told me that her art was to be capable of projecting her intent, and that everything I saw around me was her intent. She said in a whisper that the church and the town were the results of her intent; they did not exist, yet they did. She added, looking into my eyes, that this is one of the mysteries of intending in the second attention the twin positions of dreaming. It can be done, but it cannot be explained or comprehended.

quote:The essence of her explanation was that if I were, for instance, dreaming of my hometown and my dream had started when I lay down on my right side, I could very easily stay in the town of my dream if I would lie on my right side, in the dream, and dream that I had fallen asleep. The second dream not only would necessarily be a dream of my hometown, but would be the most concrete dream one can imagine.
She was confident that in my dreaming training I had gotten countless dreams of great concreteness, but she assured me that every one of them had to be a fluke. For the only way to have absolute control of dreams was to use the technique of the twin positions.
"And don't ask me why," she added. "It just happens. Like everything else."

I dont believe him, but the method works.

I have to post it again. Nice example when stupidity, ignorance & prone to pompousness are meeting in one picture.
[image]http://img1.uploadimages.net/170526SafetyOfficer06.jpg[/image]

What the hell is BFO?

Very nice experience, Cube. For getting success with CC's "twin method" you have to reattach your dream body to your etheric double. You can do it from anywhere in a given dream provided that you are successfull in matching the position of your dream body with your physical. However, the most important thing is to regard your attempt as you would trying to project from the waking state. Due to the fact that you are dreaming you don't need more than a couple of seconds to get the state you feel before separation. This trick is not for RTZ-OBEs, it would wake you up from them. It is for lucid dreaming and intermediate experiences between OBEs & LDs (F21, F22 I think).

I've found that heavier subtle bodies are separated from below and I could fully detach myself in them by levitating my legs then doing a somersault.

I'm very interested in your aura manipulations - this is something that totally new for me. Please don't hold it back.

I've found it works very well and exactly as you explained. Another method I like to do is taking off some ad hoc sun glasses. By doing it in a row it could improve my sight at times when some belief conflicts is supposed to woork in the background, preventing clear vision. My all time favorite: focusing on the tiny wrinkles on my palm. This even would increase the level of my awareness. Unfortunately I can't get this methods to work in the darkness I experience after a regular dream separation. I suppose the reason that REM-sleep needs time to start up.

Another method to get lost vison back is to trying to find the most brightest object through the darkness. It works only in projections that are real. I know those places are real because they have a 3D structure. They are exist not just before my dream eyes, because I could observe their structure by flying through them. Before I fly through a building I create a "spora" by occasionally focusing on my palm. This would stabilize flying and prevent the shocking sight of hitting into walls.

Those "real" projections are often dark like wearing sun-glasses. Usually I loose my sight in a similar manner like having some sun-glasses that getting more and more darker (in 1-2 sec). I could get my vison back by focusing on the most brightest object within this brief period. However, this is something that doesn't work in lucid dreams. For example, a couple of times I looked into the Sun only to woke up pronto. I suspect that my brain forced to use up all its 5-Meo-DMT the substance that responsible for brightness and visuals in dremaing. I could stabilize a LD (a freshly-started REM-sleep) by flying progressively and slowly to more brighter places.

"Wakefulness is nothing other than a dream-like state modulated by the constraints of sensory inputs." That definately sounds like something I would say, but it was, in fact Rudolfo Llinas, Professor of Physiology and Biophysics at New York University, School of Medicine. It was difficult to find him because I've remembered him as Rudolf Leonard.

I've found a relevant paper by Google with the following keywords: <"rudolfo llinas" dreaming> @:
http://mind.ucsd.edu/papers/diss/disshtml/chapter3/ch3.html
For my cybernetic approach, especially the section 3.4 is interesting.

An another shot of wisdom from Ramesh Jain: "Perception is basically a controlled hallucination process."

That's enough for now. I'm sure you as a clinical psychologist (and enthusiastic but amateur hypnotist like many of us) are already know about hypnodisk, but others might be surprised and have some fun with it. It can be downloaded from this link:

http://www.hypnotic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/freeserve/hypno2.exe

Double click on the downloaded file and choose target directory to unzip (for example: 'C:'). I've scanned it with Avast! 4.0 HE and found no virus inside. Double click on the unzipped hypno.exe file then press space. You'll see a vortex. Stare into the middle for about 1 min then stare into your face in a mirror or simply look down on your hand.

Thanks for your inputs Tom. I've understand and agree with you. Now I want to paint something...

Seems you do remember me from my previous nick, s***stream...  Just to know: my anal intruder electrodes are almost ready. I'll shake people into lucidity from behind regardless to how fat, lazy one is or being in the state of thinking about sex, consumption or finding the romantic love of his/her life all the time! Be prepared.

>>> upstream

It's surely possible but there are still limits. Your astral training period would take only moments for your brain, but the brain require a lot of time to learn (because speeds of molecular processes are limited). That's the purpose of dreaming, to translate our experiences we brought to home from the astral. Seems like we are hoplessly limited in our waking hours by linear time but at the same time (parradoxically) we are able to draw from the infinity all we need within our limited lifetimes.

I've just realised that you made those pictures, Jen. Nice ones.

[image]http://img1.uploadimages.net/246149_notnowkid.jpg[/image]
not now kid

[image]http://img1.uploadimages.net/920384b12.jpg[/image]

Some idea to get back to sleep (in order of importance):

1. Get a regular sleep schedule (something I'm unable to do)
2. Avoid emotional upsets, heavy planning/thinking while you're awake
3. Wake up by music that getting gradually loud not alarm (because it's more diificult to sleep back after a disturbed sleep cycle)
4. Observe your nasal cycles by exhaling through only one of your nostril at one time (block the other with your fingers) In theory, the best time would be when your nostrils are equally open and the right one is increasing. In practice? I don't bother myself with it.
5. Sleeping on your right side could help but don't force
6. Eat some light (tepid yoghurt with living cultures is my favorite)

I was recently admonished for my explanations but, I can't stand to miss the opportunity to prove how clever I am. Warning: the following information is useless and could be upsetting you.

Well, onset of the theta state can be monitored by measuring dermal temperature as you can see in the description of the TMI PREP Session Physiological Monitoring @[url]http://www.monroeinstitute.org/research/J&J.html[url].

When one hit theta great amount of melatonin is released into the blood flow and will dilatate skin capillaries by acting on some newly-founded peripheral receptors. I suppose micro movements would stimulate nerve endings thus causing the itchyness.

That's another issue that one to what extent is able to perceive this and how to respond to it, because (except one) all sensory information is gated through the thalamus which is heavily influenced by unconscious processes. I suppose the itchiness could be used by various sub-systems, some of them may others may not loyal for the waking self and its purposes. Thus unexpected itching could be bad or good for us.

It is very simple to do in that state you described because the boundaries of your body will be vague. You could pretend that your body is an empty hollow filled with water from its bottom to the top and you are the air trapped inside. Or try to breath through the top of your head.

It doesn't matter until you concentrate on the top of your head. If you're in the proper state you don't need elaborate imaginations or sharp focus. Even a slight concentration on somwhere around the top of your head could do the job. Sometimes you need to move your focus upwards, but that's all.

Could you elaborate your problem?

[image]http://img1.uploadimages.net/224304fireman.jpg[/image]
You're right, Ater. No more personal attack, I promise. This post is dedicated to you..

Tom wrote:

quote:I have often wondered how much of our perception in reality relies on sensory inoput. If putting a number on it, it would not surpise me if 1% sensory input, and 99% imagination is enough to keep us stabalized and locked into "physical" perception.

I too won't be surprised but heard the estimated ratio of 1/9. We may have to consider the possibility that the external world isn't exactly the way it appears to be. The brain uses very little sensory input to create the world. According to some modern theory about sight visual perception is more like a special form of dreaming, an upstream of memories.

Along with the fact that fixed gazing in lucid dreams will stop rapid eye movements and rock REM sleep, hindering the reflux of memories by disregarding peripheral sensory input could serve as an explanation for the vulnerability of dream objects. For example, after we get used to a new home change of objects/furnitures could be totally unnoticed. It's quite possible that we walk inside the mental representations of our homes even in our waking hours, and in this case our real environment isn't much differing from the F22 "landing unit." Or at least isn't, until someone take the effort to broke the reflux by forcing silence and mindully observing his environment. This would be more powerfull if one combined with fixed gazing (trakata). I have some intersting experiences about eye fixation in both states (in wakfulness mostly via mirror gazing) that led me to conclude that in this sense there are no much differences between waking and dreaming.

I have had the impression countless of times - mosty after separating into an instable dream room - that my environment is changing somehow just over my capacity to catch it in action. The feeling of being in an ad hoc reality in very uncomfortable but there are many machanism designed to hide that state (my favorite: being unable to see). At first, I didn't understand why this effect would wear off by time I spend in a given lucid dream. Later I realised that not my perception got better by time but my lucidity is lessened, because every time when I've done some sensory exercises I got aware that gloomy feeling again. It is like being enclosed in a bubble that in could be the result of a greater stream of refluxed memories we used to have in our waking states.

The central and peripheral part of our vision seem governed by different aspects of our consciousness. The central vision could be our exclusive window onto "external reality." It is a frustratingly little spot and the brain does various trick to hide this fact alone. Thinking about this makes me feel enclosed and squeezed into a very limited reality. Perhaps peripheral vision even doesn't exist in this context, because it is obviously ruled by subconscious processes and serve as a playground for the reflux of sensory memories. Paradoxically it seems to be a more authentic door for our perception. It's a widespeard belief that peripheral vision is the favorite place for spirits to manifest onto.

It could be turn out that we are unable to perceive other than our preprogrammed shematas. It is like playing Worms 3D on the Net. Every player has a computer capable to dechiper and display in 3D those very little data stream that responsible for creating visual coherence of the shared game. It is like we would be maniacs in the end of our personal tunnels, or we would be gigantic beings that seeing the same peepshow through their little personalised holes. I want to turn my attention away from this hole, because I desperately yearn for a more brighter and broader room to exist in. Funny that I try to accomplish it by spending so many hours looking to a monitor or the darkness behind my closed eyes. But the most important practices I know that serve this purpose are those I written in my guide - thanks for Castaneda. Dreaming could be the preferred way to free ourself from the world-illusion. I suppose it could be accomplished by 10-30 years of practice, so I need about 3-23.

One of the simplest method to check the realness of our experiences is fixating our gazes. In astral projections sensory processing is supposedly inaffected by the brain and physical eyes are motionless, thus fixating dream gaze doesn't matter at all. The practice of serial zooming as I've described at the end of my guide (outdoor practices) could work as a gentle force for gradually stopping REM sleep without loosing visuals. The first station is the RTZ somwhere between REM & NREM sleep. The brain is still very active but not as much as in F21 or lucid dreaming.

F21 could be reached by increasing awareness and expectation for seeing through the veil of hallucinations. If I get a sight of an astral object in F21 and able to zoom to it my brain should drop into deep sleep within a couple of seconds - a trick we are unable to do from wakfulness. At that point movements of "astral eyes" will be detached from they biological counterparts which become motionless in NREM. According to my theory about binaural entertainment (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13338&whichpage=1) exclusively higher brain areas are targeted by wave patterns of F23-F27 in order to shut down the cortex into 4Hz. This amount of cortical syncronisation (low theta) makes those acute perceptions & sharp cognition totally impossible that one used to experience in any regular astral projection. This means that astral projections are very little if any to do with the brain.

If one able to set up an experiment in which the subject need to use his higher mental functions to solve a problem that require great amount of real time even a simple EEG-monitoring session would prove or disprove astral projection. (I plan to bring an EEG to home and check out this transitions. It would be interesting to monitor hippocampal activity too to figure out whether download of astral memories are occur on fly or after/around awakening. True nature of OBEs & Phasing could be revolve around the results.) Normally OBE type astral experiences are squezzed into moments of our "real time". They are flashes of vison that require mind split to get downloaded but I've read a TMI script about someone who channeled his experiences on fly. Obviously there were no loss of memories except those that were not verbalised. What does it mean? Another dissociaton between brain parts? I still advise Matti Pitkänen writings about semi-trance ftp://rock.helsinki.fi/pub/misc/matpitka/cbooknew/semitrancec.pdf. According to him some "brain parts" (my note: not anatomical parts but "dispersed" functional units) are able to dissociate and get "asleep" or entangled with our Higher Selves while others remain "awake" and channel the experience. If this is possible we have something we need to think about Tom because our favorite matter, connection between OBE & Phasing seems to revolve around those experiences.

quote:It makes one wonder what the stabilzing characteristics of RTZ consist of.

In an RTZ-OBE central vision is somewhat "blurred" (or more precisely it is very difficult to observe). As opposed to dreaming periferal vision seems to be responsible for state stabilizaton that, as I suspect, is the result of a "sensory feedback." The stabilizing effect of sensory feedback is supposed to work in the following loop-mechanism: (1) the energy body "perceives" the object through interaction between their overlapping energy fields, (2) something in our mind/brain translate the raw sensory input into the most appropriate dream picture (there is lesser interpretation thus more objectivity when the "condensation degrees" of the interacting fields are matching), and (3) driven by the expectation that things can not disappear our sensory system try to hold the state of energy body that makes this perception possible thus stabilizing its current state. The three components form a feedback loop mechanism that will decrease in effect as the experience become more contamined by hallucinations. The energy body start to fluctuate and eventually the state that responsible for RTZ-perception will collapse. Density of the energy body will rapidly decrease accompained by increasing uncertainity of its localisation (process of decondensation from F12). As a result of decondensation new types of fields come into view or the old ones are become so heavily interpreted that cannot be considered otherwise than hallucination. Of course it is only a hypothesis and currently I see no way for validation.

Thanks for the DeGracia writings. It is interesting seeing him joined to the LaBerge team. I've read his book, 'do OBE' - he was obviously a stone occultist at that time... How did you get that picture of my camel, Krapulax? Have you found him? Feed him with carrots and he will let you to sleep with him. Anyways, thanks for your wife for the photo she sent to me. Seems you and you guide make some serious efforts in F10 (ref. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13528).

[image]http://img1.uploadimages.net/879984f10.jpg[/image]

Sad to see you cut your sideburns...

That pic somehow got me. I especially like the guy's demanding look. He seems disciplined but probably in a wrong way. Maybe this is the case with me.

Stay away from this thread until you get some constructive, Ater. Your second input was useless, obviously driven by anger or frustration or something else I don't want to contact with. If you still need to say something send me a PM. (The mistype of your name wasn't deliberated).

>>> upstream

or try to look into a very bright light for 1-2 mins

Itch is something you need to scratch, Hannah. Welcome back. I think the reason is an unconscious opposition, so you'd better to neglect it by turning your awareness away from your body or by simply scratching it.

That imagination focuses the head pressure and turn it into an OBE.

check this out:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13706
hope it makes sense...