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Wow, this is my first time really looking in this part of the forum. There are alot more DBZ fans here than on actual DBZ sites.[:O]

I used to watch it a few years ago, then I realized it was too crazy for me. Im a patient person but when DBZ needs to set up a fight using 5 half hour episodes, I go a little insane. It is a good cartoon though, as I said, too crazy for me.

Here's a funny flash movie about Dragon Ball Z.
http://www.virtualroofie.com/flash/dbz.htm

*Runs before Kakkorot goes super saiyen on all of us*

I spent a year of trying for an obe before it actually happened, and when it did, I wished it hadn't. It =WAS= about finding the mystical in the mundane but after I finally achieved OBE, I realized it was more about proving something that I already knew, that there was a God.

Before that OBE, I would spend hours arguing on atheism messageboards about the existence of God. After the OBE, though my faith had strengthened, I didn't care about fighting with atheists anymore because it felt like I was arguing in favor of the obvious.

Now years after that one OBE, I can't seem to focus as much as I used to. I want to try again, but it doesn't seem as important anymore.

Thanks FightingRat. I bookmarked that site so I can use it to plan the trip.

Terrance, how long does it take usually to make it from Ireland to England on a ferry?

kakkarot,

Yep it's all over now. That was the end of a very interesting childhood of seeing things. It was probably the most powerful event but it was the last. I sort of miss seeing things like that but I would probably change my mind if something like it happened again.

Below is an excerpt of a post I made about a year ago:

When I was about 5-6 years old, I would see things. These "things" ranged from floating green rock things to yoda standing in a corner with his back turned to me(not as funny as it sounds). On other occasions I would see people walking back and forth outside my door.

At the time I took the visions for granted because I thought others could see them too, but alas, I was the only one who could see people outside my door or Yoda ignoring me. That changed years later.

When I was about 14 years old, I had another encounter but this time my brother saw them first. He woke me at about 2:00am and needless to say I was mad. That feeling turned to terror as soon as I saw dozens of faces on my wall. The faces were not pertruding but more like photographs. The faces were of a boy and a girl about the same age, roughly 11-13. They were sitting next to each other smiling. Even as I write this can still see them smiling at me vividly. My brother and I left that room and slept somewhere else that night.



One thing to add to that experience. My brother and I tried to make it back upstairs to our bedroom but before we could make it up the stairs, I giant black spider, more alike to a shadow of a spider than anything, dropped down in front of us. We ran screaming and that was that last weird thing to happen that night.

I read in PPSD that spiders are a common form of Negs.

Most likely I will be stopping in the isle of man for a few days at least. My mother wants me to pick up bee gees souvenairs [:O]

Im thinking I'll spend most of the time in Ireland working, and than spend the last month in England. I've wanted to see England ever since I was very young so I have to take the opportunity.

One question. Is there a ferry or boat that will take me from Ireland to the isle of man, and than to England?

assia,

Im afraid im not female. Although if thats what the word Nerezza invokes,im glad. The word is italian for shadow and I used it for a story I wrote about a demon named Nerezza, which was female. I like the word so I kept it.

Other than that, im sure we're alot alike.[]

Parmenion,

The only time I like the sun being out is during the spring(after the snow stops falling) After that I could go without seeing the sun most days. For me autumn doesn't feel right unless it's foggy and wet.

[not]

assia,

Im a cradle catholic, i've gone through the whole routine. I even still go to church on sundays. And that being said, I hate what the church(meaning those in charge ie vatican) has become. It's corrupted and falling apart.

I not not hate roman catholicism, it's a totally different thing. I pray the rosary, study the cathechism, recieve communion.

Why do I still go to church? It's the most peaceful place i've ever been. Im even considering becoming a priest once I get my degree.

Wow, thats a nice critque. Thanks.

As for the weather, thats one of the reasons I want to get away. I love the rain and fog so the u.k sounds like heaven to me. As long as it doesn't snow enough that you have to shovel everyday.

I think DJM is coming from a gnostic/rosicrucian viewpoint. It's been awhile since I read gnostic views so im not sure if thats where "higher mysteries" or "mystery of golgatha" come from.

Voltaire alsos said:

All sects are different, because they come from men; morality is everywhere the same, because it comes from God.

Who's Andrew Wommack?

Well said kakkarot,

God is tough but fair. How could we expect less from a parent?

Tom,

Considering that this is supposed to be worth killing over, how do Christians who love God and follow Jesus decide whom to shoot?


That is why any one who kills has no business calling themselves a follower of christ. Besides, there were popes who outright didn't believe in God, religion is very useful in consoladating power and eliminating ones enemies.

It's funny, I was involved on a christian website for two years until they found out I was a catholic, then I found out catholics were hated by protestants(those protestants of course). I couldn't stay since apparently all my knowledge of the bible was, "polluted by the beast". Funny, they didn't mind before they knew I was a catholic.

James,

What amazes me is the ability of religious organisations to turn these simple ideas it to complex legalistic arguments and statements.

Thats what happens when the minds of men(anyone) contemplate on God's nature. Sort of like someone with an IQ of 70 understanding quantum physics, and doing something with it.

The early christian world(very early) was not full of the intellectuals. Rather it contained the average persons, seeking more but being given less. After christianity became the state religion, the academics moved in the establish schools the determine things like the nature of grace, the divinity of Jesus, and our old friend free will and predestination. After that, add the fall of the Roman empire and the need for a solid structure for kings to hold onto, and you have the might of the catholic church(as we know it today).

It's as i've always suspected, we have the smart people to blame. }:)

The beauty of the christian faith lies not only with the sacrafice of one man, but with the sacrafice of the martyrs that died to spread his message of love, understanding, and hope. All but 2 of the apostles were executed. John was exiled to Patmos where he later wrote the book of revelations. The other was Judas who committed suicide after betraying Jesus.  




cainam_nazier,

As a furture note some of the following my come across as rather un-nice. But I am just ranting, and venting, and remember in the long run this is just my opinion and I do not knock any one for thier faith.


We're all here on a search for the truth. I frequented enough atheist messageboards to understand the value of another persons opinion, whether I believe it or not. I still respect it.

From what I gleen from the way God's love works is this. You do what ever you want during life, you die, you go to heavan. God looks at you and asks "Why did you do all those things?" You respond with "Oops." He then turns and goes, "Oh hell, I can't stay mad at you. Come on in." Idealy this is how "unconditional love" works.

Imho, unconditional love shouldn't mean we can terrorize the neighborhood and expect to come home like nothings happened. Keeping with the belief that, "we're here to learn", I think this makes sense. Of course im probably wrong, I used to watch Tom Green.

There is no sin that could not be forgiven, dare I say it, even when one says that God doesn't exist. Perhaps the greatest offense against the creator of life would be to say that it never happened.

Actually there is a sin. If one denies the holy spirit, one cannot be forgiven. Why? Because he has denied God outright. One who decides not to know God and who is not truly sorry for their sins, cannot be forgiven. Not because God won't forgive them, but because they chose not be forgiven. According to the bible of course.

Tom may be able to draw parallels to buddhism but I really have too small a knowledge of that religion. I think it has something to do with how long samsara(sp?) continues for.

Now if some are just meant to go to heaven and some are just meant to hell then there really isn't "unconditional love" is there? It would for the most part be an unbias rule. You are either in or out, and no matter what you do you can't change in so why worry about it.

Enter the sacrafice of Jesus to provide those not of the elect(but not necessarily doomed), to get into heaven. He provided the grace needed so that everyone has an equal chance. Sidenote, when I said elect before, it wasn't meant to mean that only those people will get into heaven. The elect are the saints, martyrs, specially chosen, etc. Part of Gods divine plan and necessary in the divine course of events to be played out.

But all I really ever hear preached is this. God loves every one. Unless your a sinner, then he doesn't love you as much. And unless you follow his word he won't change his mind and you won't be going to heaven.

If you sin, and don't repent, if you follow another faith, or your not one of the Elect you're screwed.

Can't help you there, im one of the people that believe that not everyone can hear the message of Jesus, but it's likely they heard some message that bears something similar.(im not going in to the belief of platonism, I can't write anymore please don't make me!).

According to christianity, we are all sinners. Link below explains.

Again sorry if I offend.

See? Your more christian than you think.

Sinners.
How many of the God/Jesus religions say that you are a sinner from the get go?
Now me personally I find this offensive. To say that I am a sinner simply because I am here! That's just not right! To me this kind of thinking perpetuates many of the worlds problems. That being the constant "you need to pay now, for what happened 100's or even 1000's of years ago because it was your ancestors." It's just like that guy in California who tried to sue for punative damages because his great grandfather was a slave and he managed to track down the info on who own him and where the offspring of that one idiot live now. To me this thinking and ideaology is backwards and wrong.
Could some one tell me why I sould suffer and/or repent for sins that were not comitted by me?


This is actually the reason I considered leaving christianity a few years back over. Then I thought about it for a while and to me, the answer is actually, dare I say it, beautiful.

Of course writing the whole thing down would blow my mind, especially after writing Java programs all day.

So i'll let the catachism(Stop screaming please) do the talking.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm

Within that link lies the answer(according to the catholic theology) of why we are to pay for another man's crime. It's somewhat long, and im not sure if it's the same version I have(I have a newer catachism) but it essentially defines mans fall, and his redemption.
Plus it's easy to understand, I promise. Or else let lightning bolts strike me down.

*dies from lightning bolt*
*thanks God for ending his posting pain*

kakkarot,

Im a heretic considering I disagree with vatican II, the current pope, and alot of other doctrines passed through the years.

And I too hate the catholic church. At least the current form of it.
And im a catholic. The church will fall, and it's coming soon.

You are a heretic kakkarot, but your in good company, because when you think about it, Jesus was too.

One more try.

Below is the clearest view of the topic I could find:

"The Church following Holy Scripture teaches that there is Election by God of the chosen to be saved as a free will grace on His part Who has the initiative in salvation and so is the First Cause of their salvation; the Church also teaches that man has free will to accept this grace or not. It is traditionally summarized in four statements:
God wills all men to be saved and so gives sufficient grace to all to be saved;

But not all men are saved; those who are not saved are damned by their own free will (cf. Council of Orange);

Those whom He chooses to be saved will infallibly be saved in a way that respects their freedom, and this is called Predestination;

Those who are not saved are not chosen by God in view of their foreseen free will rejection of grace which will be given and without which no one can be saved.

Anyone who denies the four propositions is a heretic. How to understand the four propositions is where different theologies come in. Anyone who denies that God knows our future free actions denies God's infallible choice of the Elect and God's infallible knowledge of the Damned and so is a heretic.

The main thing to understand is that God's thoughts are not man's thoughts, i.e., He does not think as we do one step at a time, nor does He love as we do (gradually), but He both thinks and loves limitlessly all at once in an Eternal moment in which He knows Himself completely and actually as most intelligible in Himself and most loveable in Himself, and everything else in that one perfect act of knowing Himself. He therefore cannot learn anything, but when He decides to create knows the creature by making it to be, not by receiving information from the creature and so coming to learn something new.

In other words, His knowledge is creative. Any change or development is on the side of the creature, for He is neither better nor worse, greater nor smaller, no less after creating than before.

Historically there are two orthodox theologies of grace that explained the Revealed Truth of Grace and Predestination in the Western Church: St. Thomas Aquinas', and in the 16th century the Jesuit school of theology (though St. Robert Bellarmine, a Jesuit and Doctor of the Church who followed St. Thomas). St. Thomas' explanation approached the subject from man's point of view. The Church has not picked one explanation over the other. Both approaches rest on the Church's Faith that God has (infallible, of course!) knowledge of the destiny of the Elect and the Damned.

Basically the Jesuit school says God knows how those who are going to be saved will accept His initiative of Grace and how the damned will refuse His Grace.

St. Thomas following St. Augustine, though improving on him, stresses that God causes (as well as knows) the Chosen to get infallibly to Heaven, persuading them with many graces freely to accept (so that if they do not accept some grace He gives other graces that they will accept freely); while He gives sufficient grace for the Damned to be saved, but foreseeing they will reject His ordinary graces, He does not choose them and so does not give extraordinary graces to assure their salvation and respects their choice to reject Him.

This means no one can presume he will be saved and so reject a grace to avoid serious sin banking on a future grace, since God is not obligated to give another grace of repentance. This can be especially surmised in the particular sin of rejecting the Faith; many of these never return to it and it seems God lets them go their way.

The Church, however, never tires of preaching the merciful love of God available to sinners and unbelievers alike.

WE do not know if we are chosen or not and so pray for the grace of final perseverence: "Count us among those You have chosen," from the Roman canon right before the Consecration of the Mass."

The doctrine of pre-destination states that....well, different things.

Since God is omnipotent, you have to say that God, from the start of all creation, knew who would live a life of virtue, and who would not. If you take away that ability, God is not much of a god. In essence, God knows all because he is God. However predestination should not be confused with predetermination, which states that your either going to hell or heaven, it doesn't matter what you do, your screwed.

I guess it's like watching someone perform an impossible stunt that you know can't be done, but you hope the person succeeds in doing it. My analogy so it's not totally perfect. Rather add that before the stunt you had psychic insight into the event, and saw that the person succeeded, or failed. You had nothing to do with the outcome, it was to happen given the factors governing the stuntmans success.

Given these points, we can start with free will. God knows who will succeed and who will not, therefore the gift of free will can do nothing to interfere with this, for God has already forseen who will succeed and who will not, most likely due to the fact that man has free will. Free will and predestination work hand in hand together. Confused yet? I am.

One thing I forgot, there is predetermination for one group of people, and they are called, "the elect". For them, they WILL go to heaven, for they have been chosen. Many christian groups today call themselves the elect(Jehovah's Witness's for example) but only God knows who they are, not even they themselves know.

Honestly though, just by writing those few paragraphs, I think I fried my brain. It's been a while since I looked at predestination but I believe what I said above is generally the catholic doctrine. There are other versions for other denominations which describe a more fatalistic thought, but I can't comment on those.

For a more detailed, yet more confusing look at the subject:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

[xx(]

It is a sad irony that most of those caught in the witch hunts were they themselves christian. Below is a letter from a man to his daughter. It provides an example of what many of the innocent people of the time must of went through.

Many hundred thousand good-nights, dearly beloved daughter Veronica. Innocent have I come into prison, innocent have I been tortured, innocent must I die. For whoever comes into the witch prison must become a witch or be tortured until he invents something out of his head and - God pity him- bethinks him of something. I will tell you how it has gone with me. When I was the first time put to the torture, Dr. Braun, Dr. Kotzendorffer, and two strange doctors were there. Then Dr. Braun, asks me, "Kinsman, how come you here?", I answer, "Through falsehood, through misfortune." "Hear, you," he says, "you are a witch; will you confess it voluntarily? If not, we'll bring in witnesses and the executioner for you." I said "I am no witch, I have a pure conscience in the matter; if there are a thousand witnesses, I am not anxious, but I'll gladly hear the witnesses." Now the chancellor's son was set before me ... and afterward Hoppfen Elss. She had seen me dance on Haupts-moor ... I answered: "I have never renounced God, and will never do it- God graciously keep me from it. I'll rather bear whatever I must." And then came also- God in highest Heaven have mercy- the executioner, and put the thumb-screws on me, both hands bound together, so that the blood ran out at the nails and everywhere, so that for four weeks I could not use my hands, as you can see from the writing ... Thereafter they first stripped me, bound my hands behind me, and drew me up in the torture. Then I thought heaven and earth were at an end; eight times did they draw me up and let me fall again, so that I suffered terrible agony ....

And this happened on Friday, June 30, and with God's help I had to bear the torture. When at last the executioner led me back into the prison, he said to me: "Sir, I beg you, for God's sake confess something, for you cannot endure the torture which you will be put to; and even if you bear it all, yet you will not escape, not even if you were an earl, but one torture will follow after another until you say you are a witch. Not before that," he said, "will they let you go, as you may see by all their trials, for one is just like another."...

And so I begged, since I was in a wretched plight, to be given one day for thought and a priest. The priest was refused me, but the time for thought was given. Now, my dear child, see what hazard I stood and still stand. I must say that I am a witch, though I am not, - must now renounce God, though I have never done it before. Day and night I was deeply troubled, but a last there came to me a new idea. I would not be anxious, but, since I had been given no priest with whom I could take counsel, I would myself think of something and say it. It were surely better that I just say it with mouth and words, even though I had not really done it'; and afterwards I would confess it to the priest, and let those answer for it who compel me to do it. ... And so I made my confession, as follows; but it was all a lie.

Now follows, dear child, what I confessed in order to escape the great anguish and bitter torture, which it was impossible for me longer to bear.

....

Then I had to tell what people I had seen [at the witch-sabbath]. I said that I had not recognized them. "You old rascal, I must set the executioner at you. Say- was not the Chancellor there?" So I said yes. "Who besides?" I had not recognized anybody. So he said: "Take one street after another; begin at the market, go out on one street and back on the next." I had to name several persons there. Then came the long street. I knew nobody. Had to name eight persons there. Then the Zinkenwert- one person more. Then over the upper bridge to the Georgthor, on both sides. Knew nobody again. Did I know nobody in the castle- whoever it might be, I should speak without fear. And thus continuously they asked me on all the streets, though I could not and would not say more. So they gave me to the executioner, told him to strip me, shave me all over, and put me to the torture. "The rascal knows one on the market-place, is with him daily, and yet won't know him." By that they meant Dietmery: so I had to name him too.

Then I had to tell what crimes I had committed. I said nothing. ..."Draw the rascal up!" So I said that I was to kill my children, but I had killed a horse instead. It did not help. I had also taken a sacred wafer, and had desecrated it. When I had said this, they left me in peace.

Now dear child, here you have all my confession, for which I must die. And they are sheer lies and made-up things, so help me God. For all this I was forced to say through fear of the torture which was threatened beyond what I had already endured. For they never leave off with the torture till one confesses something; be he never so good, he must be a witch. Nobody escapes, though he were an earl. ...

Dear child, keep this letter secret so that people do not find it, else I shall be tortured most piteously and the jailers will be beheaded. So strictly is it forbidden. ...Dear child, pay this man a dollar... I have taken several days to write this: my hands are both lame. I am in a sad plight....

Good night, for your father Johannes Junius will never see you more. July 24, 1628.

[And on the margin of the letter he added:]

Dear child, six have confessed against me at once: the Chancellor, his son, Neudecker, Zaner, Hoffmaisters Ursel, and Hoppfen Else- all false, through compulsion, as they have all told me, and begged my forgiveness in God's name before they were executed. ... They know nothing but good of me. They were forced to say it, just as I myself was.

Currently where I am it's -15celcius(5deg fahrenheit). With the windchill it feels like it's about -39dcelcius(about -38 fahrenheit).
Looking out my window, I have a nice view of miles upon miles of fresh now, my drive way has about 6 feet of the stuff at it's peak. We just had a blizzard with about 30 centimetres(about 11 inches) and I think another one is coming tomorrow. It's pretty sad that I want to move to ireland or england for their great weather.

My suggestion is to move to Canada and open your bedroom window during the night.

I remember once during a weird winter it reached 15degrees celcius which is about what we get as an average during the summer on the east coast. I opened my window in my bedroom during the night and fell asleep. When I woke up at about 3:00am, I found that the temperature dropped to -5 degrees celcius and there was a blizzard starting.

Fat Turkey,

Where did I mention that muslims were terrorists?  

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.-Matthew 24:4-14.


Sometimes I wonder if it is truly coming.

This is the story that was probably put on the candy canes:

A Candy Maker's Witness.

A candy maker in Indiana wanted to make a candy that would be a witness of his faith, so he made the Christmas Candy Cane. He incorporated several symbols of the birth, ministry, and death of Jesus Christ.

He began with a stick of pure white hard candy. White to symbolize the Virgin Birth and sinless nature of Jesus; and hard to symbolize the Solid Rock, the foundation of the Church, and the firmness of the promises of God.

The candy maker made the candy in the form of a "J" to represent the precious name of Jesus, who came to earth as the Savior of all mankind. It could also represent the staff of the Good Shepherd with which He reaches down into the ditches of the world to lift out the fallen lambs, who, like all sheep have gone astray.

Thinking that the candy was somewhat plain, the candy maker stained it with several small red stripes representing the stripes Jesus received when He was beaten before His Crucifixion; The stripes that the Bible says we are healed by. The large red stripe is for the blood shed by Christ on the cross so that mankind would have the promise of eternal life.

As time passed, the candy became known simply as a candy cane. It is now a standard decoration we see at Christmas time, but not nearly carrying the meaning that was originally intended. But the meaning is still there to those who have "eyes to see." Perhaps this story of the origin of the "candy cane" will help you to witness the wonder of God's Gift at this blessed time of the year.


OH MY GOD, LOCK THOSE RELIGIOUS FANATICS/TERRORISTS UP!!

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