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I've been listening to Antony and the Johnsons for a few years now and I agree they are fantastic. I've perhaps over played them a bit now, but they still touch a certain 'something'. The song that means the most to me is perhaps their most popular, "hope there's someone".

Regarding other music which touches me like this - I'd really have to think. I generally go for songs rather than bands, but there are some bands I like. Currently listening to yeah Yeah Yeahs a lot atm. Pulled out 'Fever to Tell' recently and have become addicted again. One listen is not a enough to form opinion as some of their songs are deeper than they seem. (I'm not saying these are a band which touch me deeply, they are occupying a decent amount of listening time recently though!)

Ps. Someone people should check out as they are not as big as they should be is polyphonic spree - they are fantastic .

27  - the age at which the majority of people realised they were not going to live forever

That means I have 4 months left of blissful ignorance 

Yea... that sounds nice... so your saying that if i dont feel good, and i have cough medicine that contains that stuff ill die?

Thats... thats nice.

No, he's saying taking more than the recommened dose can cause harm if you don't know what you are doing. A lot of DXM products contain additives to stop people abusing it. Some brands such as Coricidin have actually caused death in people taking it to hallucinate. There is also a large number of the population who are P450-2D6 enzyme deficient - this means a very small amount of DXM would have a very large effect if you were one of these people.
Taking larger than recommended doses of these substances is not recommened.

I'd be careful about taking large doses of Nutmeg as it contains myristicin which is psychoactive. The experience can last anywhere from 24-32+ hours and in some users it produces a hangover which can last longer. Doses over 15-20+ grams can cause hallucinations and delirium like symptoms.
The reason I mention this is that if people ingest large amounts of this simply to AP, they might get a lot more than they bargained for.
There is also some evidence that large doses might act badly with MAOIs.

A typical Myristicin experience has three stages. The first is a feeling of intoxication. Much like the effects of alcohol combined with marijuana. In addition to this, an increased heart rate may be experienced and palpitations are common. The second stage is akin to the effect of amphetamines. Alertness will be increased, users may experience hyperactivity and may talk uncontrollably. Additional effects include memory loss, loss of logic, balance, memory continuity (e.g. unable to remember what you have seen 30 seconds ago on TV). The third stage is halloucinagenic. This stage is intermittent with the strength of the dosage. Halloucinations are of a common type. Very immersive and often using common objects to alter your surroundings (e.g. Missing doors, lots of chairs, people with the same face.) This may be unnerving and usually not mind expanding. This stage can be slept off if the user can manage to sleep in the second stage.

I experimented with this many years ago, and it's something which I wouldn't really recommended.

Interesting theory, but that's all I can see it is, a theory. We really have no way of knowing. I've had a few arguments in the past with people who are major proponents of Karma and their views on suicide. In my opinion, they were ingrained deeply in a belief system and were reciting 3rd hand knowledge rather than direct experience in defence of their views.
In areas such as this, there are few definite answers, so we have to tread carefully, as not to be absorbed totally in any belief system, which would see all other possibilities obscured.

If you read deeply into ceremonial magick, one key ingredient stands out. The Mind. Every magic ceremony is a manipulation of the astral (mind), through the use of various incantations, props, and visualisations. These are geared towards producing specific mind states which will allow the intent of the ceremony to manifest. The manifestation of this intent arrives through natural means.

It's been a while now, so I can't remember the exact content, but a good book for beginners is 'Experimental Magic' by J.H. Brennan.

I believe they are interesting ideas, and certainly more exciting than what mundane reality seems to offer, but they are just ideas.
I look forward to the morning of Jan 1st 2013, when everyone goes to work as normal, carries on with life as normal, and a few people scratch their head at if they are ascended into the 'nth' dimension or not.

Regarding Suicide, do a search, there has been a lot of threads on this issue. My personal opinion is there is no punishment as such. But if we do survive death, then whatever made you commit that act will still be with you - and being seperated from the physical might stop one remedying it - for a while at least.

1337 is net speak for leet (elite) - a term usually used in gaming communities . it seems the people who coded the boards put a few 'easter eggs' in like that .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

Hi Jadefresh,
   knightlight is spot on. I've been projecting for a pretty long time, and this question is still one which consumes me.
Keeping an open mind on the matter* is a very good way to stay grounded in this area, and it also helps one to sift through a lot of baggage connected to AP/OBE.

*By open, I mean considering the possibility it could be in the mind – people have a tendency to experience OBE, and because it felt real, instantly change their belief to one of it [OBE] being proof of the afterlife when in fact it is simply proof that OBEs as an experience exist.

Hi Kitsune,

Do you hear this voice all the time or just during energy work? Does it feel to be a part of you?

Hey Jon,

Welcome to the forums! I hope you enjoy your time here

I agree with a lot of the above. It seems while in the astral, we still have varying degrees of body awareness. As long as the information coming from the astral experience is stronger than that from the physical body, the astral experience lasts longer.
By information I mean stimulus. I too find tactile stimuli helps ground myself into the astral.

Hey Dem0072 ,

Welcome to the forums! The great thing about places like this is that people of all abilities can help and teach others. I know that I've learnt a lot from people who are just starting out on the projection road. I hope you enjoy yourself here.

Hey Arian,

Welcome! Hope you enjoy yourself here .

Hey novella,

Welcome to the forums. Hope you enjoy it here .

Great thread .

Some of the predominant memories of my childhood are of what I called "eye spiders". Even now I can vividly remember multiple occasions where I saw them. They were human looking eyes (with eyelids which would blink), but they had spiders legs. I remember around 6 years of age in a friend's garden, on the fence at the back one of them was sat still on the fence just watching. Another occasion I was in my parent's living room and on the wall above a shelf one was sat watching me.
They looked as real and solid as anything in reality, and are still vividly remembered. I have no idea what they were though .

A scary memory is of me reading in bed, I was around 9-10. A wardrobe had a full length mirror down one side. I used to read with a torch, and on one night I was looking around the room with the torch, I then saw something which instantly terrified me. The light was reflecting off the mirror onto the wall. This made a bright rectangle on the wall, and in the rectangle at the top was the silhouette of a head. There was nothing is the way of the light, and nothing which could of cast such a silhouette.

Another scary memory is of when I was 5-ish. I was in the infants (pre-junior school), and I went to the toilet with a friend. The toilet had a door to outside on one wall which was usually locked. Suddenly something started banging the door, shaking it and trying to get in. Whatever it was, it was making a grunting inhuman noise.
I went over to the door and looked through the keyhole. I saw a 3-4 foot red being. Its face was all wrinkled and it seemed to have a single eye in the middle of its forehead. It looked angry :p. My friend looked and saw this too, so we both ran, quite terrified out of the toilets to the safety of the teacher.

5-6 again, I used to get up around 6am on weekends to watch the cartoons. One morning I was in the living room and I heard a noise at the back of the room. It sounded like hooves. The hoof sounds were coming closer across the floor. There was nothing there, but the sounds were quite real. I remembering thinking of the devils hooves, being terrified and running back to bed!

Finally, a strange set of events concerns all the children I used to play with. We all seemed to have an impossible shared memory. Old open top aeroplanes swooping into the street, one after the other. I have vague memories of being on their wings.
This was a shared experience throughout our childhood – but I can't see how it really happened .

It sounds like a false awakening. The majority of mine are characterised by waking up, thinking i'm awake (quite frequently in a sleep paralysis state) and then something happens such as someone banging into my room and making lots of noise, or someone standing at the bottom of my bed laughing or just being annoying.
Experience of AP and LD show this is more akin to LD, i'm usually not awake, just having an experience which is very similar to waking up.

When I do regular AP practice I get frequent false awakenings, so i always take it as a good sign.

Hey John,

Sending lots of positive thoughts and energy Deb's way.

I've never been successful with asking for such help. But I have heard of others who have. At the Monroe institute, a regular projector by the name of Rosalind A. Mcknight was regularly lifted out of her body by four beings. This is detailed in her book Cosmic Journeys.
One occasion I really did ask for help during a projection attempt had very strange consequences though:

Around 1998 when I was in trance attempting to OBE I decided to ask for help. I sent out the intention that I wanted help to achieve my goal of OBE. Nothing happened during that session, so I got up, put the TV on and wrote up the experience in my journal.
In the distance I started to hear something which sounded like a plane coming closer, the rumbling continued to increase until it seemed quite close. The noise seemed to be a deep vibration, I could feel the hair on my arms and legs vibrating due to it, and the roaring sound it made seemed more to be a vibration of the eardrum than the air transferring the sound into my head.
This noise kept increasing until I had a deep vibration throughout my body and the sound was amazingly deep and loud (seemingly just on the edge of hearing). I could feel it in every fibre of me, and see its effects on my body, including the hairs being moved by it. The source of it seemed to be directly above the house. I ran to the window to see if I could see anything, but really started to panic, thinking of the stories regarding alien abductions etc. The sound must have had a psychical source as it was affecting the physical.
I couldn't see anything above the house (due to the angle of my view from the window), the sound stayed for around 2-3 minutes, and then started to move away into the distance again.

To this day I have no idea what this was, I was fully lucid at the time, and could see the 'vibration' affecting physical objects.

The above is copied from this thread:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=21340.msg181984#msg181984

That was a good description.
Good read too.

At the start where you said "sinking into oneself feeling". I can get to this stage. From here how did you intiate the vibrations?
I have had the vibrations before but never consciously induced them before. It was always my mind waking up during the vibrations.

When I get the sinking into myself feeling, it is always after waking up. Sometimes I get it after waking in the night and attempting to get back to sleep, but usually it's an effect of attempting to sleep in the morning when I feel I've already had enough.
Frequently the sinking into myself feeling seems linked to increasing realism of hypnogogics.
The sinking sensation leads to paralysis with me if I let myself fall into it (it's usually an unpleasant type of paralysis though which movement doesn't always break – so perhaps it's a very deep trance?)
If the vibrations don't surge in on hitting the paralysis state, I sort of push my body up and down (like thrashing my hips). This can be quite vigorous sometimes. But my physical body doesn't move and the vibrations start coming in. I'm not sure why or how they do, its something which has always happened.
I don't recall waking into the vibrational state, it usually stems from the paralysis state for me (which I do wake up in frequently).

I know there are several ways to induce AP but from the steps that you took is this order correct?

sleep paralysis
vibrations
increase vibrations
then start separation ?

The above is usually exactly how I induce AP each time. The best separation method I use is rolling out and falling onto the floor. Something to note is sometimes the sensation of rolling out and being on the floor is very vague. If it's not focused on it quickly vanishes. What I have learnt is that no matter how vague the sensation is, focus on it and utilise tactile visualisation to make it feel as if you are crawling across the floor. This quickly reinforces the AP and soon all sensations present and it becomes a full AP.

Interesting experience MJ.

Do you find that most of your projections follow the same course of gradually loosing lucidity or does it vary with each projection?

It definitely varies. Some experiences wind down into a dream state (Although this could possibly be seen as sinking further into the astral), some just abruptly end.
Something which troubled me for a long time was reading experiences which seemed to suggest you are 'out' until you return to your body. Most of my experiences ended without returning to my body. I would just become conscious (more focused on the physical), and the experience would end. I'm coming to the conclusion that the illusion of the body and consequently slipping into it is as much a belief system to regain waking day consciousness as anything. What I mean by this is if one believes in energy bodies, then it seems natural to have to reintegrate those bodies, and so that belief holds true. However 'far' I have been into the astral planes or far away in the RTZ from my body, the experience ends in an instance when physical stimuli overpowers that of the experience.

The Human brain if only we could use more than 10%

We use 100%, just not all at once. The 10% thing is a long running urban myth.

I guess I'm lucky in that I've always had good control over my emotions. This is not always a good thing though as many people see me as aloof or distant, or at the least as very laid back and blasé about many things.
Having control over emotions doesn't mean you don't feel emotions, it means feeling the physical effects of emotions but not following through with them on a mental level.
Great examples of this are when you are angry with someone; they've said something which makes the anger or annoyance rise in your chest. You now see you have two options. You can just passively observe the effects of anger on the body or you can bite into it and let that anger out (affecting you mentally). I should say that if you aware enough of the cause and effect of that emotion you will see the space between the mental reaction (outward manifestation of that emotion) and the physically felt reaction. You are the watcher, not the watched*.
I think emotions are intricately linked with hormones and our biology. So we will never get rid of them. Purposefully suppressing emotions so one does not feel them is quite a bad idea. You might get to a state where you don't feel emotions, but this is through suppression. The turmoil of the emotions will still be conflicting in your subconscious.
As with meditation, it's about passive awareness. Emotions are usually first felt in the body. Meditation teaches us that anything which disturbs the mental state should be observed passively and then let go of. This sees the emotion acknowledged and it consequently dissipates rather than is suppressed.
I guess to summarise, self control is the mental being aware (in the moment) of an emotion arising, and watching said emotion rather than letting it take control. Never suppress ever as suppression can cause many problems over time.


* The watcher and the watched is an anology of the mind. The mind likened to two birds sitting in the tree. One bird (the watched) is eating fruit, the other bird (the watcher) simply observes the watched all the time. Most people take the place of the watched. Not really being aware of their reactions and acting on a near impullsive level, but ideally one should take the place of the watcher. Observing each moment to moment action of the self and being aware of the self and the moment. This is the part which watches the emotion rise. The watched is the part which would instinctively let the emotion control them.

I guess that's because a lot of folks believe in balance.

So if there's a whole lot of "terribleness" it will have to be counteracted by a whole lot of "wonderfulness".  A bit like cause and effect I suppose.

I'm of the opinion that nature doesn't necessarily work in balance.  Why should it?  Who are we to say that it must follow certain rules and laws, those very same rules and laws that WE created for it?

I'm hopeful that "life" and "beyond" is totally chaotic and doesn't follow rules and laws and order.  That way ANYTHING could happen... 

Sarah

I agree with you here . What a lot of people miss is that even perceptions such as balance and duality and man-made concepts. Lots of old philosophies were based on such balance and extremes. Cold, hot, night, day, male, female. In the greater scheme of things they mean nothing outside of here now. And even here now they are but select points of possibility. I guess man likes nice and neat catagorisation .

Someone with chemical experience has actually posted somewhere online, showing that the alleged explosives would not have worked. For someone to attempt them, they would have to be clueless as to what they were doing. For example, the ingredients would have to be mixed on the plane, and are extremely unstable, boil and quickly heat to extremely high temperatures, and could not be spilled without causing serious injury, etc.

An additional issue that has been raised, is the question of why liquid substances are being combined for security when the combination of the involved chemicals was allegedly the whole mechanism for explosive initiation in the first place.


It really does amount to fearmongering, and pointless security. The said chemicals could, in all likelihood, not be used to create an on board explosive. You would have more of a chance of someone smuggling in thermite (which you COULD NOT DETECT), and eating a hole through the frame of the aircraft. Or setting the plane on fire from the inside, with the in-flight magazines and etc. It's ridiculous.

Unless people fly butt-naked, and are cavity searched, there are always going to be ways to cleverly compromise an aircraft's flight. The real question is, why? How many times does this happen? Many more people die in automobile accidents every year than have died as the result of terrorist attacks in the past 50 years combined in the US, or some figures to that effect. So then why is everyone being disallowed from bringing on trivial items that are much less harmful than things they could never detect, and would be much easier to implement? It's all the hype is just to enfore stricter security.

In 5 five years, everyone may have forgotten this incident, but who's willing to bet that these extra "security" measures will still be in effect? These things are gradual. They wouldn't try to pull a police state on you overnight, as rational citizens would immediately reject it. It has to be built up over time, and this has been going on for decades already. Little events like this, under contexts of bigger threats, like the USSR,or communism, or drugs, or terrorism.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/17/flying_toilet_terror_labs/

I was just looking through my journal and noticed an experience i'd forgotten about, it was an attempt to initiate entity contact :

------

I was taking an afternoon nap and felt the potential for sleep paralysis (the sinking into oneself feeling.) I pushed myself (my mind) into it until my body felt paralysed and a deep humming vibration filled my body. Rather than try and roll out straight away I stayed with the vibrational state. I felt it throughout my body, tried to pulsate it from head to foot. When it was felt very strongly I rolled out onto the floor. I found this exit quite easy. I got to the window and started pushing my head against the glass, I slowly pushed myself through it (there was some resistance.)
One thing of note is that consciousness felt altered during this. Also on a few occasions my vision seemed to disappear for a second then come back. I was floating outside my bedroom window and for a split second a dark jeep seemed to appear in my garden, it looked like an open back army jeep, its bonnet lifted facing my house. It was gone in the blink of an eye. I surveyed my street and it looked beautiful and sunny. I decided to fly over towards the fields and was surprised at how easy it was (flight can sometimes be a problem for me) I tried to land on a rooftop at the bottom of my street but I couldn't stop myself. It was like I had momentum pushing me. I drifted down to the floor on one of the islands of grass at the end of my street.
Trying to walk proved to be a problem, it felt like I was running in slow motion, under reduced gravity or under water. Everything else was at normal speed apart from my movement as I slowly ran towards the fields. The slow movement coupled with the slightly altered state of consciousness give this OBE a different feel.
Before the nap I had been reading about entity contact under high doses of DMT. I decided to try and contact an intelligent being. I stood still and really focused on the thought "I wish to meet an intelligent being." I tried to project this out. I closed my eyes to aid me in the transition to a place with intelligent beings. I now found myself in a dark place, the sky was near black and stormy looking. I was stuck to the spot, paralysed. I forced my head down and my arms were against my sides, but my elbows were bent and my hands were out in front of me palms up. I had the feeling I was restrained by something. A booming and growling voice declared "I am an intelligent being." I didn't really get a feeling of malice from it, it sounded mildly curious. I couldn't move my head to look around but I had the idea that I was in a dark wasteland.
I pulled myself out of this place and found myself back in the street. I'm not sure what happened now, but although quite lucid of mind, I thought I was awake. A woman was with me. I seemed to know her at the time, but now when writing this up, she is a stranger. We walked over towards a fence near the field. Things were different from waking reality, but I didn't notice this (due to the reduced lucidity?) The fence was huge and for some reason I was trying to contact intelligent entities again. I was projecting out this desire over the fence and into the horizon.
My lucidity was quite low now. I was seeing strange things without questioning them. I found myself in a strange house, all the people there felt familiar but I have no idea who they are now. A women and a young girl were with me. There was a brown wooden door in the house which led to a deep vertical shaft, its walls were brown stone and it looked very deep. The shaft was quite illuminated by a pinkish glow so all details could be seen. There seemed to be portals doted around the walls. Pink and swirling. On the insistence of the girl we jumped into the shaft. She was telling me why we were doing this put I can't recall now. We fell a long way, and landed safely at the bottom (where there were other portals.) I stuck my head through one and I could see into a tunnel. Something was moving along the tunnel towards me, it looked snake like, reptilian but with a cats head (well it resembled a cat - like those Chinese dragons?) I pulled out of the portal quickly and told the girl we should get out of there. We ran to one of the walls which had a brown door, we went through and shut it behind us. We were back in the strange house. After this point my lucidity dimmed more as I talked to people I recognised at the time. I then found myself back in bed. On getting out of bed my consciousness still feels slightly altered - which has occurred after many OBEs. it's not an unpleasant feeling though =)

Quite an interesting experience but after that initial contact experience, my lucidity seemed to dim somewhat and fantasy (a dream state?) took over. The fact that I accepted the strange goings on without question is a testament to my lowered lucidity. Although I was aware - I got caught up totally in the environment.