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September 16... nothing happened in the following days in Israel, and therefore it was probably not a premonition. It might therefore be the 'merkavah' as you said.

It is true that when someone sleeps it is actually possible to pass on to her/him messages, feelings, sensations, etc... This happened to me by accident a night that I was extremely upset at someone close to me, but I kept it all inside me and was ruminating it over when I went to bed. At the same moment, the person had a bad dream in which I appeared to be the source of the trouble in the dream. I believe that it is even possible to do that volontarily. And I also believe that unvolontarily we pick up messages all the time all the night, if these are addressed to us explicitly (e.g. to Mr. John Smith) or implicitly (e.g. addressed to all the people belonging to a family, or other specific group of people).  This is one of the ways by which I see that premontions can be explained: e.g. someone dying in the family thinks about us at the same moment and we are sleeping, then the dying person will appear in a dream saying "good-bye" , etc....

It would be interesting to test that.

Hey Tayesin,

even if it would only be a dream it would have a lot to reveal... but anyhow these entities (red dots on the globe) are not in the physical world, only in the astral world. Do I understand you correctly?

As to you Dark Knight, may I suggest you to light a candle and ask these entities to leave you alone ! Or make a prayer to God to chase these entities and help you while you light the candle (depending on your belief system of course). It seems that prayers work, even if it is only the power of your will, since the will can be very powerfull. I even once praid for a 'witch' who practiced too much and got into a very bad situation (psychologically speaking). She was drained from her energy and was almost suicidal. She was not afraid to attempt to hurt herself. And it seems that a candle with a prayer helped her, at least that what she said. She is now probably back to wicca practices...

May the Light be with you!

Thanks for looking into this.
It is good to know that someone is indeed reading the topics in the bug forum.

Thanks again!

It's quite funny... I am the only one to read my own message ... nobody read it and sure nobody answered it...

Well I found out by myself that to see the blue bar on the upper left of my windown with the feartures that allow me to edit and change my profile I need to use an older version of netscape. With netscape 3 and 4 it works. And so it was with netscape 5. But we also have the latest version Netscape 7 and with it I cannot see the blue bar... So if you experience the same problem, you will know that it has to do with the browser you use....

It seems that if someone has really a serious problem to report or a bug, there will be none to answer....

Thanks so much Robert, for you long explanation!

These people who are reaching balance during the present life and will not re-incarnate after their death, is there a way to recognize them? And are they many of them among us? or just a tiny fraction. Are these people like (say) Jesus Christ, or (say) other "prophets" (such a Mohamed, or Elyahu)? or they could also be the "homeless" at the corner of the street? are they coming back sometime to help others?

Cheers.

The hypnagonic state can be reached by falling asleep (normal way) or by trying to OBE (then you are more lucid and might be more aware of it). One way or another it is the same. You can see images, pictures, like in a dream, you can hear voices, sound... I sometimes even hear music. Or I hear some very clear voices: "you will die or get very sick in April" was one of them... It is entirely normal. For the scientifics it is probably like dreams, otherwise it might be an open door to the astral world. Anyhow, I have noticed that these are very different and very distinct from the dreams themselves, as it happens sometimes in the morning. I have a dream and as I start to wake up I got some hypnagonic sound/picture (A/V - audio visual effects... [] ) that are not at all realted to the dream I just dreamed, as if comming from another place in my brain or another place in the astral. Or maybe the dream comes from my brain and the hypnagonic A/V comes from the astral... not sure.

as a start try here ... mugwort

http://botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/m/mugwor61.html

You might want to either check a "herborist" store, or ancyclopedia of herbs, or someone who can show you the plant in the wild. It is probably more of a weed today, so some experience gardener or plants 'dealer' might know too. You might also try to find seeds in the market. The thing is that if you never saw that plant before you might have difficulty finding the real one in your garden. The easiest way is to go to a New Age store or WIcca, etc.. and find the incens or the herb. Though they might charge you a "special" prices for that...

That's an interesting vision you had. You might have been extremely sensitive at the same moment at being electrocuted yourself and would have brought the vision through that fear of being electrocuted, not sure. Good for yourself you did not get electrocuted.

Hey Melchizedek,

Merkaba, Merkavah is by the way also the name of the Israeli tank in service in IDF (Israeli Defense Force - tsahal)....

She probably had a premonitory dream. I would not be surprized if there is another terrorist attack of any kind today (or tomorrow). This might have nothing to do with your Merkavah... bombs falling ... that would mean maybe some mortar attacks from the Gaza strip... though it might also be a suicide bomber...

Keep an eye on Yahoo news...

I myself have premonitory dreams about attacks in Israel, though not last night.

There is quite a lot written about that by Robert Bruce in one of his on-line book. So I will not repeat that. These records (Annals) are kind of storage of all the "feelings" of all the people, what they lived, what they will live, etc... There is however another way to access premonitory information which is what Robert Bruce calls the "wind of the future", where, while in astral travel you are kind of "sucked" up into another place/time and are witness of events which are events of the future, whether directly or through signs/symbolism. These are also probably, as I understand them, pieces of the Akashic Annals. It seems that some sensitive people can "intercept" messages/information from the Annals.

I have my self experienced more than once premonitory dreams which looked exactly as the "wind of the future" in that sens that in a dream I am suddenly in a place where things are hapening, and I am there as a witness.

So I can only say that I have accessed the info from the Akashic Annals in premonitory dreams and unvolontarily.

HOWever, I found out that autosuggestion works well for that too. You can try to auto suggestion yourself before you go to sleep by repeating and writing in your dreams journal that you want to access the Akashic Annals (or have premonitory dreams). It should work withing a week or two.

Hey corvette,

Last time I woke up with vibs in the middle of the night. That means that I was in a dream, visiting my basement, which suddently turned black. I could not turn on the light and realised I was in a dream, and even thought I was in the astral (as my basement looked so real). Then in the blackness of my basement, as I was being more lucid, I found myself awake in my bed.
I did not move an inch, just kept very close to that transe state where I was and thought about OBE. The vibs came up they were very strong and lasted for a few seconds at most, I thought of getting out and had the floatation feeling. Then I figure out that I might end up again in the dark basement and decided to "stay" in my good old body.

Two other times that I woke up in the morning I intentionally did not move and tried to keep that feeling of the transe from the sleep state. I searched for that sensation of free fall to trigger the vibrations. The vibrations came very strong. One time I just waited until the vibs dissapeared. The other time I got up the bed when the vibs were maximal and got up from my physical body into the astral.

Another time, long ago, from a lucid dream I tried to wake up, but got stuck in the "dark place" for a little while. Eventually of course I woke up. No vibs.

PS: Sorry, it looks as if my avatar is staring at your avatar...

Hello Heather,

It could be that your dreams (the one that haunt you) are actually premonitory. Not premonitory of your own future, but maybe premonitory of people being attacked in your neighborhood. Are these vivid dreams where you feel the fear, almost physically disturbing? I had a similar experience which is actually on and off (rather off these days) where I would see corpses, body parts, blood and I found that they were premoniroty of terrorist attacks in Israel. Then I had also vivid dreams that terrorists are after me, that I have to hide, I have to fight, I have to shoot at them, etc... and each time it was premonitory of terrorist attacks. In one case for example I managed to kick the knife out of the hand of the person attacking me. Then I asked him "what's wrong with you?", and he answered me "you haven't yet looked at the news". Then in the dream I understood from the news that there were terrorist attacks all over the country. 2 days later there were several terrorists attacks in Israel in different localtions. I have checked all that to make sure that it is not just a coinscidence, and I found a very clear correlation. I had premonitory dreams of Israel bombing Lebanon, and other similar etc... From time to time there is a person in these dreams with me. He seems just to be there for no apparent reason, just as if being with me. He might be a  guide..? He does not alwasy look the same, but he is kind of old, either bold or with white hair, blue eyes, short and thin. It took me a while to realized and to check that these dreams were premonitions. Since you mentioned that in your family there are many persons who are precognitive, I believe that this is what it might be. I do not have a problem to get up from sleep, however if I do not sleep my 8 h or more I can feel pretty bad and get a very bad temper because I feel tired. I have a need for my sleep, and my dreams, otherwise I am grumpy. And in my family there were some persons who were precog, they knew when they would die for example, or other things.... So it might well not be a negative experience at all. The question is how you interprete what is hapening to you in your dreams. If you really feel bad about it and think that maybe there are spirits bothering you, light a candle and ask the spirit to go away. Make a prayer to God if it is part of your culture. I have posted tens of bloody and awfull dreams on another forum on another web site about premonitions, if you are interested, though I belive you have enough with your dreams, you don't need eother people dreams. ONe of the thing you might try, is to ask that person in your dream if you are lucid dreaming. The other thing is to auto suggestion yourself. Before going to bed repeat to yourself (and maybe write it down) that you want to have nice dreams, no bloody stuff, etc... autosuggestion takes about 2 weeks to work properly. And last, if you believe that your dreams might be premonitory, then start checking the news. First the lcoal papers to see if the crimes you see in your dreams are hapening. And if not in a local newspaper, then try to find out if they are premonitory of events in some other place (other country, etc...). Check Yahoo news for example.

If you wish I can try to help, if you post each time your dream, I am ready to read and listen to see each dream in details as they are coming, day by day (or night by night). And then I can try to see if there is any signs of premonition.

Do you keep a journal of your dreams?

There is also the other possiblity that there is actually something that is bothering you and your subconscious is trying to tell you about it with these dreams. You would still need to keep a journal of your dreams to solve the puzzle.

Blessed be you, Oh young shaman!

I had many deja vu when I was young. In one occurence I knew I had dreamed it, since I remembered the dream. In the other occurences I did not know it was from a dream, but I just knew what was going to happen. And the fact is that the way I had the deaj vu was exactly the way I remember these things now. So that I believe that it is not only from dreams, or if it is from dreams, it is actually a connection with the future where you connect with the future memory of something is about to happen. Lately, these years, it has turned into premonitory dreams. The most impressive one was when in a dream I saw the front of a place completely destroyed with debris everywhere, and in the dream it was a bomb in Jerusalem. The next morning when I woke up I checked the news and at noon I learned of that bomb in a pizzeria in Jerusalem. Later on I found on Yahoo a picture of the place, and the way I remember the picture is exactly the image I saw in the dream.

Note your dreams, and try to remember them everyday.

If you dream of meat it is a sign of death. The person to whom the meat (raw meat) is given in the dream is the person to transit (die).

Dreaming of loosing teeth is also a sign that people close to you will transit.

You must know how much to "use" and be experienced, not just a "trial"... deja-vu happens here and there ... electricity can electrocute you, or if you touch only one metal tooth of the plug and are insulated from the ground, your body will be charged with electricity, your hair will rise above your head, and you might be able to create sparks... I would believe that you rather were slightly electrocuted, because it lasted only a few seconds. If it was due to "shamanic" herbs, it would last a few hours .... My brother once was electrocuted "gently", in that sens that he got charged but the current did not "pass" tru him, he thought I was tickeling him in his hair until he realised he was alone and his "charged" hair was erected because of the repulsive electrostatic force.

Next time try to get there with your dreams....

Use common plantain (its a weed in your garden, the most common one!) to stop bleeding and against insect bites...

take an infusion of chamomille, with lemon verbena and and lemon balm... that will calm you down before sleeping...

Have a good dinner with plantain and dandelion leaves...

try incense instead of smoking, e.g. : 3 parts sandalwood + 3 parts benzoin (styrax) + one part Dittany of Crete (oregano dictamnus) + one part mugwort; burn a small amount in the room to aid projecting...

A sens of deja vu can be obtained also when someone gets hurt. It happened to me when I once seized solding iron (for electronics) from the hot iron part (i was too tired apparently to continue working) and the first thing I felt was not pain but kind of a strange feeling as if I was there but also was not there, as if I was just a witness and not taking part in what was going on, almost detached from what was happening so strong that it was like a deja-vu, then I dropped the iron and got ice to hold in the palm of my hand. That was enough for the day and I went home.

So be carefull of the new technology of this world, it is not like in the old days unfortunately....

In two lucid dreams I had a beautifull vision of the night sky. I did not see the moon, but I saw the constellation of Orion, which is visible mostly in the winter. It is one of the most beautifull and promient constellation in the sky. There are many stories and tales and legends behind Orion in many religions... and cultures. Anyhow, in one of these lucid dreams, I addressed the sky and the star and ask that the future be known to me, and the only answer I got was fear coming upon me, which I understood was the answer. In some other forums I have heard of a person who would address the planets and mainly Jupiter. Now about the moon, or more specifically the moonlight I have not heard. My best guess is that it is a paraphrase, in that sens that it does not mean that it has to be taken litteraly, but rather as image. To be in the moonlight is to be somewhere where it is calm, the sky is clear, the weather is nice, the night is soft and almost warm, with maybe some crickets, maybe the sound of the waves of the nearby sea (?), etc... I see this as a sign of peace and tranquility. It might also be something very specific that used to be between the two brothers, that maybe there were going around in the night together by the moonlight, or something similar.

I hope this help.

And by the way, Beth, would that mean that God created two kinds of Men? and two kinds of women? (two creations..? as you mentioned). That would explain who are the "son of God" (benei Elohim) and the "son of man "benei Adam"? Since obviously when Abel and Kain were created no word is said about where their wives came from... they must have been created somewhere before too? Then who exaclty would be "bnei El" and who would be "bnei Adam"... ?

My speculation is that there is indeed two different sources of the original text that were sewed together. Obviously one from Judah and one from Israel. Another possibility that I see is that originally Abraham came all the way from nowdays Irak (city of Ur). I see him as the first person who actually wrote a pretty large part of the first book with his background from Summer. For example the flood story is well known in the  text from Summer in the Epic of Gilgamesh. They dissagre with the time it happened, but they are basically recording a same natural phenomenon that happened long ago. For me Abraham comes with one tradition and one source of text. The tadition of circumcision and other acts of cutting small body parts - especially in the genital area - was a common practice in ancient socities.  Then he went to Egypt for a short while. Curiously it is not mentioned that his wife got pregnant when she actually staid with the Pharaoh, as it appeared that she was not "fertile" (though let's assume that she did and that she actually had a child there because of that). Though at that time already I see a clear connection between Abraham and ancient Egypt. This then continue with Joseph tossed by his brothers in a well and then sold as a slave to Potiphar. Eventually he became a great man in Egypt (Zaphnat Panea). Then his all family (brothers, father, ...) arrived there and stay there (become eventually slaves) for 400 years. Then comes Moses who supposedly his name means in hebrew "taken-found out of the water"... there is no way I see any such translation of "Moshe". Anyhow it seems to me that Moses was really the son of Pharaoh and that he decided on his very own to come to the help of the hebrews in slavery in Egypt. This is how and why he would be the second source of the text. He would make a story of himself as being found in the water and being a hebrew, otherwise the hebrew would never believe him and would never follow him. So he then brings to the Hebrews his philosophy and religion. He is the one who also is told by God Himself that Elohim is Yhyh (though here there is a speculation that Yhwh also might just means "the one who causes to be", or 'creator' if you prefer in single language). Moses is the one who tries to bring the laws (10 commendments) and it might be pretty well that he wrote them himself. It is not also completely sure that those in Egypt are all of them. The ones in Egypt might have been only a fraction of the ancestors of Abraham-Isaak-Jacob, the rest being in Kenaan with the ancient tradition. Moses has to accomodate what is giving to the Hebrews so that it will fit in the tradition of Abraham.

All that to say that I see two sources: one is more summerian like (Abraham) and one is more Egyptian like (Moses-Moshe). Shamash/Shemesh is the Sun god in some old religions in the middle East, obvioulsy the hebrew language has kept some traces and has been influenced by these religions. And I believe that so is the bible.

There are many other things that really don't fit. Why in the first place when God (E) created the skies and the earth, the earth is already a mess (tohu-bohu)? Why is it said the first day, when there was not even a difference between day and night. There is clear evidence that the world has been created in 15 billions years, with the earth sun system being created only when the universe was already 10 billions years (so the sun-earth system is only 5 billions years), etc... Why in some place people are killed for small things such adultery (and it is always the women who is lapidated, not the men! - eventhough they are usually the responsible), and in other places (Jonah) people are not killed because it is said that God likes all creatures, eventhough these people had "sinned"?

To me it is very clear that the prophets (see e.g. Daniel) are having lucid dreams, OBE, NDE, etc.. and are in contact with other "entities" (or maybe just the subconscious?)....

Now you said that I have to give an interpretation of what is there written, that is exactly the thing, it is that interpretation is given only A POSTERIORI and not A PRIORI, so that it is up to the clever mind to make sens out of the text, even if the text does not make sens. And the fact is that a clever mind can always make sens out of ANY text. See for example the famous story (at least in the newspapers) about the Bible code book. Mathematicians have shown that the probability is such that one can do exactly the same with any text, and you can make any text say anything you want... And again this is because it is a posteriori, not a priori.

The only things that I really agree is that all the people in the Bible who are depicted as having spoken with God or some Angels, is that these people might have had NDE, OBE or other experiences similar to that. NDErs all pretend of the feeling of peace and of being "ONE" with the "Light" and "ONE" with the world itself, from there "Y is our Lord, Y is ONE".

Happy New year to you Beth.

The star of David, "magen David" is really "magen" as shield. So it was the insigna on the shield... Kind David was a terrible worrior... magen is the protective shield... , such that magen David was the protective shield of David.

Originally the Old Testement (Abraham) is taking roots in nowdays Irak (city of Ur), passing in the 'holy land' but also visiting Egypt for quite a while (Abraham, Joseph - Zaphnat Panea; and Moses) or possiblty originating from Egypt (Moses). So there are many interelations in the old religions (summerian, egyptian) and the old testement. The same way: the flood is depicted in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Shamash is found to be the sun God in these old religions and in hebrew it means Sun (shemesh). The same way Leila is a godess of the night, and it means 'night' in semitic languages.  

As to the star of Bethlehem, it is really the planet venus, which is the brightest object in the sky (after the sun and moon, and when it is above the horizon when it is dark).

As to Horus, the constellation of Orion in Egypt was seen as Horus in a boat surmonted by the stars (the square zodiac of Denderah with Rigel in the bottom right and Betelgeuse at the opposite), followed by Syrius (shown as a cow) also in a boat. Or also 3285 BC as Sahu in the Book of the Dead "The shoulders of the constellation Sahu... I see the motion of the holy constellation Sahu"...

In one dream, my hands were huge, like hands of a 50 years old experienced carpenter....

In another dream, when I looked at my hands, I noticed that my finger nails were rather long, and I realised that the same day I had cut them, that's how I figured out I was dreaming and became lucid in that dream...

In, yet, another lucid dream, I try to "pass through" the wall, and I put my hand forward but could not ....

My hands never melted however.... at most the dream melted and I either got to the "dark place" or woke up....

Bonjour mon frere!

When you start to wake up in the lucid dream, do not move an inch! when you start to take concious and getting back into your body and are getting awake, just stay completely still and try to think about staying as close as possible to the feeling of the dream... then from then what works best for me is to reach for the feeling of free fall. I just imagine I am falling from a plane and kind of fly, or falling from a hill, a tall building, without hitting the ground, and try to feel that feeling in the palms of the hands and feet (picotement) like when you are really falling... try hard and you might get to the vibrations. Then when the vibrations are engulfing you and overwhelming all your senses, then you ready to go: get up and you will get up in the astral world and leave your body behind you. That's the best technique I have to OBE. Since you wake up from a dream you must be in a transe and if you don't move and don't think about your body (like need to go to the toilet, feel itchy here or there, etc...) then you can just "drop back" into deeper transe and get ready for OBE the way I explained you.

Bonne chance,
Shaman, le reveur...

Menuha also means "rest", and when someone dies in hebrew that person is said to be "laid to rest", where the word menuha (rest) is used in the sens that the person is in an "infinite state of rest" (=dead).

For example "huva le menuha" is used to said that someone has been  buried . Dark clothing sounds for menuha ... the vail however is not used in jewish tradition (usually), more like in Italy, Greece,.. for mourning...

Was the "ha" in menuha like the german "ch" in "nach", or the russian "X" like in "xorosho"? (I am not sure what other language you might know.. just trying to see if the "ha" was more like "clearing your throat" sounds as in hebrew).

Very interesting experience. Keep us posted ...an affair to follow...
Would be good if you could talk to her more.

Cheers,
Shaman, the dreamer

Hello Paul,

My first OBE was unvolontary and it happened while I was falling asleep long ago. I did not know at that time it was an OBE. I remember feeling the vibrations in my body and golden lights in my eyes and then felt I was kind of moving up. I started seeing my body under myself, laying on the bed. At the same moment I thougth I was DYING. Then I started drifting into the living room (where my deceased grand mother was sitting on the sofa) and then all of it turned into a dream. When I woke up the next morning I was sure I had dreamed of Dying. I knew that dying would feel the same. So in some sens you are right. Even when you read NDE narratives, the first part of the NDE is an OBE, similar to volontary OBE, so that YES there is a similarity. But it does not mean that OBE is leading to death.

On the other point, the radio, it happened to me that I dreamed I was in my car listening to the news on the radio and that the commentator was talking about a few hundred people dead from a bomb and that they were checking if the bomb was a dirty (nuclear) bomb. The place where the commentator was, was starting with and A and ending with an A but I could not make it (Alaska, A..A??). Then just a day later there was this bombing in Indonesia that killed several hundred people and I heard about it on the radio in the car, and the comentator was in Australia. So I would say that maybe I heard the radio, a premonitory radio, or I just had a premonitory flash as I often have from time to time.

Next time try to listen to hear what the radio stations are saying, maybe it is a premonitory flash...??

You can actually check each user by clicking on his/her name.. and see for yourself...

Wowwww, I am prehistoric, I have lived 42 springs in my short existence on this planet... I am so old... or is that you are just so young all of you (except a few)?  

Sure older people feel too serious or are too busy to check this site...

Maybe another I'll tell you my stories....

Dear General, Colonel? lieutenenatn? or just Hey Man!?

Back to your Original posting.

I want to confirm that there is a state when you are falling asleep, which a state between awake and asleep where you are still very much conscious and lucid but you already start to have dream like experiences... then you can hear voice or see pictures or short dreams... I am myself experiencing that very often... you are not crazy, neither schyzophrenic (Thanks God!), and fortunately today the time of the elctroshock has been abolished (see "fly over a cucu's ness", a must! - with Jack Nicholson when he was about my age). This state where you hear voices is called the hypnagonic state, it is a NORMAL state and the only difference is that you are aware of it while others are not.

No to the interpretation. You can pretend and belief that dreams carry messages for us and that they need interpretation, in that sams sens you might want to say that these voices can be messages from our  subconsciousness... Or you might want to believe they might be from the astral world, whether these are spirits or others... If you think they are spirits and want them to go away, then light a candle and ask these spirits to leave you immediately. Let the candle burn down completely. That should work.

Now from the point of view of science the hypnagonic state is real just the interpretation is the one where the messages come from the unconscious part of your mind and not from spirits (since science does not belive in spirits...). So even from a skeptical scientific point of view you are completely sane and have nothing to worry about. Nobody is going to burn you alife because you are a wizzard or a witch like Joan of Arc (who in my view was a prophet!) and heard voices.

Best to you and to all of you who are aware of the hypnagonic state...

Hi Indragua,

it does not sound like a familiar experience and from what is posted here on the forum there are not many such cases... see for yourself... I had an 'non-volontary' OBE, a day that I fainted. As I could not stand on my feet I laid down with my back on the cold floor and everything around me vanished. Then I could see as if I was laying in the bottom of a well and at the opening of the well were a group of persons looking down at me. They were kind of looking to see if I was OK, if I needed help... I could not see there faces but I knew one of them was my deceased grand father. They were probably my guardians or guides if you prefer... So, yes, I believe that your guides might be around and maybe even help you to OBE, but usually I don't think that would be part of their "official" duty. They are supposedly supposed to help us in our life and when we die, but never heard that they would help for an OBE, unless they mistake it for an accidental OBE, like the ones hapening to NDErs.

Om!

Hey Doc,

I hope none will confuse our names....

Anyhow you should contact Birm (on the forum) who seems to have experienced some similar telepathic situations I think....