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" I don't get any vibes when doing tk, and it works pretty well without. I don't think that the vibes help you doing tk, it's a side effect for some people when they are ACTUALLY doing tk. Searching for the feelings won't help you, look for the results whatever you feel. A feeling is by definition only an indication of what is going on."

I cant do any TK stuff, but in general I disagree with this point. The feeling of an action or "vibe" is essential to me in recreating the initial action. Once you remember the feeling and can reproduce it it will inevitably lead back to its own cause.
Also, remembering the feeling of various things is important, as these feelings can have unexpected effects when recreated.
I have been able to reproduce the exit mechanism for OBE by remembering the feeling of what happened when it kicked in (bit more complex than that, but not a lot).
Similarly if you lie in a bath and pull out the plug, then stay still, you will feel "really" heavy. I have found that reproducing this heavy feelng is a great way to put yourself into a trance state.

Rob

OK - my name number, and I tried this in a few different alphabets and always came out with the same answer (!!), is 8. My birth number is 11. And, get this, I was born on 8/11/81 [][][].
I spoke to donni about this (woo donni wooohoo! cool person) and she said that 11 is a high spiritual number, whereas 8 is more concerned with manifestation in the physical universe. I am an engineer and would say pretty spiritual - specifically I want to make "spiritual technologies" and am very interested (um...ok....obsessed! [|)]) with fringe/edge science which is, basically, like the vanguarde movement of science. Always gets there first! Lots and lots of things I wanna make and invent to help the world out and make it a better, cooler place to live [8D].
So yah, "coincidence" is REALLY pushing it! I guess it does work.
BUT I am still what I am, regardless of numbers and stuff. Donni said she likes this stuff for confirmation, I couldn't understand what she meant then but think I do now.

Rob

How much primary center work are you doing? Specifically how much are you working on the third eye?
Could be a blockage, restriction, etc. Maybe take abreak then come back?

Uuumm could you describe in detail the sensations you felt? Would help a lot!
However, you are 18, and as such your energy body is not fully mature. At the age of 7 the throat activates, 14 the brow, and 21 the crown. This links to biological glands coming on line at those ages, is well documented by mystics (eg kaballists), and I can confirm it through personal experience. That being the case its "very" unlikely you are having a kundalini awakening already!
Have you read NEW energy ways by RB? That should give you a sound basis from which to safely develop your energy body. You might find that, over time, as your energy body matures and strengthens the sensations will reduce in intensity. But slowly and surely is the best way forward - no rushing thing!

Still, I would be interested to hear more details on your case!
Rob (22)
ps kundalini in general is a wide topic which is little understood - I suspect to gain real insight into the subject would take you quite a long time...

Ah no wait, yes ok, got you.
I have a friend who claims to have experienced a continuous hot/cold rushing sensation and that it is quite something when fully active, but I am still not sure what it really is.
I spoke to RB and he said that these were heavy primary center energy sensation (I think) and not truly kundalini, but from the literature on the area a lot of people think it is. Honestly, it may be kundalini related but then again, it may not. I dont think you will find much by RB on these forums talking about the sensations you described because he doesn't think its the big K.
Personally I am inclined to side with RB and say that since I trust him fully and his experience was so utterly extreme, more watered down versions of kundalini are probably not really kundalini. Premature kundalini tends to occur as sudden spikes up the spine - like short circuit dicharging, if you like, and this can be quite dangerous (pretty well documented too). Is that what you meant by "accompany a surge"? If so I am not aware of that connection.
However that is not to say that the hot/cold rushing thing is definately safe, but I have heard only minimal stories about the possible detrimental effects and, as such, cant put too much stock in them. IMO this sensation is still an indactor of heavy energy movement related to above average spiritual status, and is something which needs more exploration (although perhaps not by your friend!!).
Still, I stick to my original thought which is that he is not in danger and that continued energy work is infintely more likely to help than hinder him.
Rob

Ha! Nice catch []
But I have 2 contentions:

1 is that these types of theories often seem to change, and as they do so the required number of dimensions also changes. That was written in 99 - a lot can change in 5 years! Do you know where they are at now?

2 You missed the rest of the quote!

quote:And in fact, we have reason to believe now through recent developments in Superstring Theory evolving into Membrane Theory, that there is a kind of a master seven-dimensional lattice, which is one that I've been working on for some time, called the E-7 Lattice, that creates the seven hidden dimensions of eleven-dimensional space-time, because seven plus four (for the four dimensions of ordinary space-time) gives us eleven.

In other words beavis is actually right - from the perspective of the other quotes you posted, if we take the physical as one dimension, the total is 8.[] I am not sure I can navigate around this and fit it to the more mystical view. But then, see point 1!

Rob

RB said that NEW came out of his exploration of his own energy body - "with a fine tooth combe" I think was the phrase.

The connections to tones and etc could be formed through experience or a deeper understanding of the chakra system and its interconnections to human emotions etc. Etc chakra is based in a gland so I dont doubt this is true, nor from personal experience that chakras are connected to different emotions with primary emotional types and etc. Then when you listen to tones, those tones will evoke certain emotions in you as well, and they can be matched up. These tones are then used in practise.
While I think many of the connections have deep roots which are valid and true (eg resonance, with chakras actually having their own "tones" or corresponding tones due to harmonic matching), I think even if you get them wrong it doesn't matter "too" much as its the intent that plays a big part. I may be wrong there though!
Colour association to vibration is, I think, another case of harmonic matching. 7 tones in a scale, 7 colours in the rainbow, 7 chakras etc. Or you could look at it from another point of view eg auras, personality types, favourite colours etc.
And as for godesses and symbology well that is at the very least for the most part the creation of man so......if they say so and you then understand it thats what matters.

Rob

Oh dear....I've heard that argument put many time in many situations and its always flawed by the same answer:

"THERMODYNAMICS:You can't create or destroy energy"

Nobody is creating or destroying anything, only transmitting it from one state to another. Same with overunity devices. I assure you I do understand all your arguments, but IMO its you that're out of your depth here I'm afraid.

I'll continue to disprove your arguments for as long as you keep making them and telling me I am wrong - and those arrogant put downs dont help either.
I have other reasons too...[]

I have read many books. For instance, your spurious reference to the laws of thermodynamics - we were taught those laws in depth at uni. But they have nothing whatsoever to do mind over matter.
These vague references just aren't going to cut it.
Besides, scientifically and philosophically your assumptions are completely unsound. You cannot disprove something like this - and if you disagree, then go read a philosophy book.

"also, at all times of the day, constantly, there's a ringing in my ears, i've had this as long as i can remember."

Have you lived in one place for as long as you can remember too?

Science as you learn it is only representational of a small area of reality which is given laws and theories to explain how those areas can be modelled. Thats all - ie its not totally inclusive of everything, and to discount something simply because its actions are not covered within the scientific field you have been taught is just unscientific.
I was never taught in school or in uni how the consciousness works, because frankly nobody knows. To discount the bodies affecting magnetic fields because it has little field stregnth of its own is laughable. There is NOTHING you learn in highschool which disproves any of this. And if you think I am wrong, prove it.

I wouldn't concern yourself with kundalini spikes if I were you, they are extremely rare and can mess up many aspects of the body. But from what you've said there is no evidence he is in any danger. The hot cold energy sensations are probably just his bodies reaction to the energies he is drawing in, ie thats what energy flows can feel like to some people. Where is he feeling the sensations? I saw NEW on!
But to answer your question no, I dont know of any way to actively suppress any energy phenomenon in the long run apart from staying grounded and not doing energy or spiritual work. However, especially in the case of someone with a bad heart, any possible risks are vastly outweighed by the positive benefits.
Rob

Your post is chock full of assumptions. First:
"And to ignore blatent facts like you do makes you the closed minded one."
If you are speaking of science lets see an example. What blatent facts have I ignored? You know diddly squat about me, so kindly dont assume I am closed minded. I'm not. Nor did I call you closed minded - so why fall into this defensive sniping mode? Thats your psychology, so kindly dont overlay it on me.

"I'm perfectly open to solid proof, but don't you think it's a little odd to say the least that there is no real evidence to support any of this?"
Biggest assumption of all. You ever gone looking for the proof you claim doesn't exist? If so, look harder, you might be suprised. But what, precisely, are you claiming there is no proof for? On my computer at home I have links and articles saves for many types of parapsychological type studies. One which springs to mind, done in a chinese university, using a qi gong master to affect physical measuring instruments. About 10-15 different experiments if I remember right, all with various scales of positive and convincing results. If he can do that I dont see why people on this list couldn't affect electrical quipment. I know I have, in the past, and that is what I would call a "fact" - my fact, however, not yours, obviously, as you weren't there. Coming from that fact is truth, to me, which I build my belief system on.
You're playing with semantics and so am I but frankly its irrelevant either way. Semantics are more the realms of philosophers too, you know.

"Is it not more likely that it simply doesn't exist than it is that throughout the history of time no one has been able to produce anything that could prove it to be factual?"

Nobody has been able to product anything factual? Ever? What a peculiar thing to say, for a man with a phd no less.....(btw both my parents have phd's and yet my dad often refuses to believe the evidence of his own senses - I only said I am an engineer to point out that I am not coming from the "other camp")
But I assume you are aiming at some subject matter. Whatever it is, I am fairly confident you are wrong []. Its just that the science of the "paranormal" find itself difficult to take off because a lot of scientists, like I said, are rather militant in gaurding their belief systems and refuse to believe things which are so outside of their realm of experience, preferring to say exactly as you have above - and then use this rather circular argument to discount anything new which could break that loop. I hasn't been proved, I done believe it, therefore it cant be true. And if it isn't true, it cant be proved. Blah!
Hence journals dont like publishing it. Even Nature stoops to the lowest of lows sometimes - after publishing positive results on homeopathy, after the resulting storm they sent in, basically, a crew to debunk the evidence. One of the men in that 3 man crew was named james randi (scum), and the day he admits to the paranormal is the day I eat any hat you can find for me (and, incidentally, the day he loses $10million and his job....somehow I think he might have other motives...). And if I cant trust Nature to be totally on the ball I cant trust any journal, and since journals like this are the foundations of how new data is released to the science community, well, there's little hope of breaking the strangle hold of ignorance said community visibly revels in. However, underneath this thin visual veneer, I think a lot of scientists are truly open minded, great people. Its just that they cant show it for fear of losing their jobs (I could site examples)

"Remember, without science we would still be in the dark ages."
Your final assumption, that I dislike science. On the contrary. But science is just a word - what really pulled us out of the "dark ages" were people honestly looking to understand and explore their reality, its only in the last century that we have attached this word to it and divided people into groups.

lol what fun...[]

btw I have an off topic question - is russias situation improving these days? Mafia and corruption and all....

Rob

"I read the empty mirror instead. It was a good book
tells you what it's like to go to a zen monastary."

Dunno that one, I've read "the three pillars of Zen" - stunningly good book IMO. Got another classic on Zen not read yet.

" Zen and the Art of Metaphysics? Better than motorcycle maintenance, since I'm currently bikeless"

Ha! Yeah, I think I remember that...or was it wicca and the art of motorcycle maintanance??! A good one whatever!

Rob

[MU]

"I've stated before it's all really the same thing. Buddhist, Wiccan, Metaphysicist or Cleric, it's all the same thing."
Except Zen buddhism [] - that seems so ALIVE to me. Not that I have ever met a zen monk, but I plan on spending some time in one of their monasteries when I have the means to do so. MU!!!!

Rob

Hey Rastus,

"Abused it will eat you alive, metaphysically speaking."

Could you expand on this a little for me? I am interested to hear what you have to say. Oh, and I would also like to get you started on anti-depressants, so feel free to rant away! Aside - the friend I mentioned with depression, was on anti-depressants, might be now not sure. He dropped out of our uni course for a year off, totally stopped taking any drugs like alcohol or pot. Last time I saw him he said "well, I'm feeling much better now that I have started drinking and smoking again". lol, made me think anyway....
[]

Rob

"Current science" doesn't support many things which are never the less true. I dont think people here are too interested in "unbiased testing" to get a small bunch of "skeptics" to accept the facts, and for all those other sketics who were NOT involved in the testing to say "I was not there, it cannot be, the tests must have been flawed therefore I do not believe it". Scientists are just other people, and when it comes right down to it they generally have more rigid and less open belief systems than non-scientists. I speak as an engineer, btw, and a human being.
I think people here are more interested in sharing their experiences. I dont think its particularly miraculous to do this - pretty cool, interesting, etc but frankly I've seen more impressive things and never been interested in trying to test any of them [].
Rob

In JKD we practiced mainly with nunchaks, learning the various motions and forms, but didn't get far back then. I had my old bokken too (broken now [] but got 2 new instead [8D]) and he showed me the first samurai form. But like I said we didn't do much and, as is the way with jeet kune do, we learned mainly what was thought to work well.
In aikido me and a friend asked to be shown some sword fighting at the end of the session and the what the teacher showed us seemed rediculously simple. Just dropping the sword on your opponents head while stepping aside to miss their strike - then he said that that was 3 months work! Crazy. So I'm guessing its a lot of form work, essentially. Apart from that I've been shown knives in all the martial arts I've done, which were used more like props (eg how to avoid) and straight slashing in JKD. But I certainly aint no expert...
Have you trained with weapons in the jitsu school?? - if so, sound different...?
As for the differce in the two schools of though I got nooo idea!
Rob

OK m'dear - meditation! Forget all the methods for now. Just find a chair, with no head rest support, and sit in it, with a cushion under your feet. Close your eyes, relax. Personally I like to do a kind of whole body and mind collapse, release of emotion, etc then tell the mind that its now in meditation time so kindly keep quiet! But whatever suits.
Then start counting your breaths, experiment - count your inbreaths for a while, then try outbreats, then both - like in(1) out(2), in(3) out (4). Personally I like counting both in and outbreaths, but you might prefer something else. And. Thats. It! Simple eh? All the more advanced stuff is for when you've mastered this level of practise. The important thing is to concentrate on the numbers, or perhaps the breathing. Basically what you are looking to do is occupy your (surface) mind, and so achieve a state of peace and stillness. If you watch yourself, the mind constantly throws thoughts and bits and pieces of stuff all over the place every second. This is what you want to get rid of in meditation by counting breaths - any and all distractions. When your mind settles into a state of peace it finds its own natural balance and harmony and, well, you'll probably know about it [].
Simple eh? - oh and if you try different methods, decide which you like the most, and stick with it. Better to master one method than be OK at 10.
You will probably also find it helpful to learn and practise putting your body into a trance state. What this basically means is that your brainwave pattern changes more towards a relaxed, sleep state. Infact your body goes to sleep, while your conscious mind stays awake. Dunno if you've looked into this already but its a good starting point. Can find details on the main site www.astralpulse.com in the OBE treatise.

As for the rest of the confusing stuff - well have you read the article by RB "the catch basket concept" or something (not sure the name)? Basically says only to believe in what you know to be true from personal experience. Oh and all the Mayatnik stuff, well I ummm wouldn't spend "too" much time trying to digest it all if I were you <politely caughs....>. There are some other loong threads like that which, if I were you, I would avoid. The whole channeling and etc issue is best left completely alone by novices, I really wouldn't get into that if I were you until you have strong foundations and can assess the area for yourself. Me, I steer clear of it. Maybe in 20 years time I'll change my mind, who knows? But not today.
Aaaaaannyway, are you confused about anything in particular? I would be happy to answer any queries you've got!

Beginners guide - cant say I can help much there though, sorry! But many of the articles RB has written are invaluable.

hope this helps some...

Rob

Wow - crazy stuff! But can I get something straight - this guy likes to physically threaten people BUT doesn't like controntation - how does that work?? And, out of interest, what's the company do??
Mebbe you should have a look at the crazy blokes aura yourself. Like, sit outside a cafe on the route he takes back from work, or something.

It possible that the energy you put in cleared some blockages around the brow and crown, its possible that with increased energy flow it was lighting up areas of his energy body that dont usually get used so much. Interesting though.

"Besides, there is the affect on the healer (what if you need your energy for something else and your exchausted)"

weeeell, to the best of my knowledge healers dont usually give up their own energy like that - they draw it in and up through their energy system them input it into the patient, so none of their own energy is actually lost.

Hey

I just noticed yesterday that RB has written another article on his website (aarrrggg!! trying not to say a "new" article LOL). Anyway if you just go to www.astralpulse.com there is the article "healing from the heart" there you can get to from the front page. I haven't read it all yet but it looks good, as always.
IMO you cant really have "too much healing". The body has natural counterbalances and measures against over-charging itself, though I do know people who have had to ground themselves out sometimes because they find it difficult to live in "this world" with psychic stuff going off all the time - but I think this is unusual and only really happens if people go at development too fast (in this case the lady was a very experienced and skilled remote viewer)
hope this helps! And congrats on the healing - keep it up!!!!!! []

Rob

Hey!
Aye! Love martial arts. Done some judo - kinda cool, jeet kune do - great fun, and a bit of aikido over the last year - also great fun, without the extremely painful harsh exercise regime of the former two!! And before all this, well, even since I was very ickle I have had a love of practicing kicks and stuff.
Been trying to put energy stuff into the aikido, luckily the teachers are proficient in this, but it aint easy!!
Oh yeah, bought some weapons recently too - sai, bokkens, but my favourites are definately nunchaku!!!
aaahhh martial arts.....sweet.....how you find wing chun then? We did some of that in jeet kune do, very close isn't it? Bit weird and flappy []
Rob

LBRP ritual is a good shielding exercise (if you dont know what this is then do some research). Shielding requires regular practise and work though, like every day for half a year or so. I dont have the energy, too lazy! Once you are proficient at this you can expand the principles and adjust for other circumstances eg objects....

Once you know what the elements mean, and you know yourself as a person, its just a question of adding 2 and 2, as it were. Not that it means a whole lot or makes squat difference unless you want to use the knowledge for, say, magical practices. But if you have to ask questions like the above my guess is your a way off from that stage!
Rob