Messages

Canada is the way to go.



And cant forget about that sweet sweet BC bud

souljah: how long does the trip last when you use the extract? Ive only talked with people about smoking the plant itself.

I have a question:

What crackhead antichrist would actually use that number now that everyone knows what it is?

Isnt salvia just like a 10 hour acid trip squeezed into 5 minutes? If so I dont see how it could be useful for meditation.

If you really do feel like you need something to "kick-start" the process, just get some reefer. The downside to this is the same as using hemi-sync too much: it becomes a crutch, and you will need to smoke every time you want to get anything accomplished.

I do smoke weed and i try to keep it seperate from my spiritual practices and find that there really is no problem. But salvia, if you can even get it to work, wont really do much.

If you do decide to use it, make sure that when you smoke it you get it as hot as possible. Use a butane lighter and make sure the blue part of the flame is heating the plant. And, like halfphased said, take a big hit and hold it in 30 seconds if you can. Ive never done the stuff but i know alot of people that have tried it and this is what they have suggested.

yeah but you see that causes a whole bunch more problems for me, and some anxiety too. cuz if it's a game...i'm wasting just as much time in an alternate dimension as i am here?!? man...that would make me twice as fu*ked up as i think i am!
333 (or 308 for BENK)

Hmm...how can you waste time when there is no time to be wasted?

BenK,

weren't you the same person only a few days ago that asked who would you rather ask for advice...siddhartha or a modern man (something like that...was that you? maybe i'm losing me mind)...but...I LIKE THIS NEW ENERGY!
very attractive! what happened to change your perspective immeasurably?

333

anyone heard that the new evil number is 616?!? see i hate excrement like that. you take someones word for something, build it into your foundation, and then wham..."sorry, we got it wrong. there was little bit of dirt on that part of the scroll".    not that ever believe a number could be evil.

Haha, yeah i said that, and i still think i stick to it. When it comes down to it, I would rather read about reality in modern english on a message board from real people who have experianced these things than some book translated into sem-victorian english full of cryptic sentances and meaningless hogwash. Im sure you could get alot of very useful information out of these books if you have the patience, but all it really does for me is make my head hurt

I guess I just believe that reality is alot simpler than some people like to think.

Souljah- we cross posted :X

I agree, i think that physical life can be likened to a training program. But i like to think of it more as a game

We put ourselves here, experiance this crazy world and then once we are done, tally up the points and if you think you need to, you can play again

And on the big bang:

It's not supposed to be as simple as something from nothing.  I've been reading a lot about physics lately, and while the Big Bang is not an undisputed theory, even among physicists, it's not as simple as

nothing, nothing, nothing..... BANG!  UNIVERSE!  lol.

Well then what was there before our universe? Another universe? Then what was there before that universe etc..

Youve also got to keep in mind that physics is simply another belief system that we created. Thinking we know how our universe came about is to me a lot like people in the 17th century thinking the world was round!

What we believe is formed by our perspective. People saw the sun go down and come up, so naturally they believed that the sun revolved around us. Silly them, they never thought to simply look at it from a different perspective and see the truth.

I think its much the same way today. We see the stars and other galaxies and come to a conclusion(Big Bang) based on our perspective.

A fatal flaw in every generation of human is thinking that there generation is the one that "gets it". People think simply because you are alive and can read about the past that we must know everything. If you went back in time to the 17th century would you believe what they believed? Now what would happen if you asked someone from, say, the 24th century about us? Let me tell you, we are no different from the people of the 17th century and I believe in time we will come to realize these things.

I cant wait  

The only reason they (rules) apply to us is because the majority of people on earth subscribe to them.

...or people only exist bcuz the majority of the rules subscribe to them...or we subscribe to the existence, bcuz the people rule the majority? just being a smart [edit]...

I tend to hold consciousness in a higher regard than a physical law, or a physical anything for that matter  

Action follows thought, not the other way around  

I am getting out of here as quick as possible. (Im not to satisfied with our country as you can tell from my location)

The theory of evolution is not really undisputed.

I see evolution as the same thing as creationism, just another way to explain how we came about. Im sure in the future people will laugh at evolutionists like we laugh at creationists today. That isnt to say, however, that evolution is any more right/wrong than creationism. They are both the same thing in my book.

Remember we are only beginning to explore the universe. In the future(10,000 yrs+?) its perfectly plausible that we will inhabit many many many more galaxies/planets. Maybe its just breathing space? Maybe just so we can look at something pleasent at night. Who knows.

As for your second question, my guess is that we created this universe with earth "ready" for life to develop, and sort of let it take its own course.

But then again, i dont know. Thats why I made this topic I find it hard to believe in stuff like big bang(something from nothing? gimme a break) and creationism(The concept of an entity creating this universe and then creating us). So i basically limit it down to US creating this world to LIVE and EXPERIANCE.

What do you mean 'if we created this world'? Certainly we couldn't have created it physically, or at least not in forms such as these, so I'm not sure what you mean.

I think the Earth was seeded with life. I don't think it spawned from any mixture of chemicals and clay or any excrement like that. In my opinion, that logic isn't far removed from dark age science of rags + food + a corner = rats are born (and I'm not making that up sadly).

I mean exactly that. We created this physical universe so we could inhabit it. That is one of the only things i feel sure about, until i can phase and learn from experiance.

I also believe we are the only intelligent life in our universe. I cant buy that there are people "spying" on us from different planets and they havnt even tried to establish contact(at least with us normal folk, all that bs about being in league with our govt etc). I think its much more plausable that these things are actually people from different universes who have created technology to come to ours.

I have been pondering alot of stuff for the last few weeks, mostly because my beliefs and attitude towards reality and life have changed immseasurably. So my question now is this: If we created this world then where does evolution fit into the picture? Not even that but how did we get here? And, as always, no fighting in my thread or i will e-kick you out of my thread

Man doesnt WANT to accomplish everything. We all agree to "rules" beforehand like gravity, mortality, etc. If we were able to do everything the "game"(life) would be spoiled. We are here to experiance and grow.

However, thats not to say that I believe we CAN break these "rules". The only reason they apply to us is because the majority of people on earth subscribe to them.

I dont doubt that some people have been able to do some pretty amazing stuff. But i dont know about the reverse aging etc. Seems pretty far fetched to me but i like to keep an open mind to everything

Do you have any links on these cases?

We cannot banish dangers, but we can banish fears. We must not demean life by standing in awe of death.

-David Sarnoff

Frank: This may or may not be wayyy too off topic but could you define "subjective" for me? i know the traditional "dependent on your thoughts,emotions, etc" but would you sort of explain the whole subjective energy thing for me?

Also, if the energy in this "physical world" is objective, how is it that monks and highly trained people can alter it, via telekinisis, etc? Do they alter the translation of the subjective energy?

Frank:

1 more quick question. This may seem a bit odd, but I have also heard of alot of people communicating with there pets telepathically, as well as other people, while under the influence.

Would you say that this takes place in F3 or F4? Also, could you even communicate with a pet?

What you are saying makes no sense. If a person travels to different physical universe, the YOU there is also going to have the same concsiousness as the YOU here. What are you planning on doing with the other YOUs concsiousness? Store it in a pickle jar?

How do you know that YOU dont already encompassess all other probables, and the ultimate YOU is what ties these probable realities together.

So, hypothetically, if you were to phase shift to focus 3 while under the influence of, say, lsd, there is a possibility that instead of normal, everyday hallucinations "overlapping" you might see seperate entities?

Im sure that has happened to a number of people already accidently, but they chalk it up to "just the drugs".

Interesting  

I would actually say 5% sounds high. More like 2-3 sounds good to me. 10% I might raise a bit to 30-40. 40 i would raise to 60.

But i know nothing, and might be wrong.

Frank: Its extremely interesting that you say that. When i was under the unfluence of these things, other people would not percieve the same hallucinations, auditory, visual, whatever, which now that i come to think of it correpsonds directly to what you are saying. Each person is instead engaging there own images from F2.

The allure that i see from drugs is this: Experiancing life in an altered state. Now, im sure once i become able to fully phase and enter different focuses at will this allure will diminish, as i can have any experiance i want while in these states.

Another alluring aspect is the social aspect. Alot of people tend to take lsd and psylocibin socially. ALso in the 70s/80s bikers would get together in abondoned warehouses and trip on dxm. What i believe happened is they entered F3 of consciousness as opposed to lsd/mushroom of F2 or F2/F1 overlap. I know I had great fun enacting out "fantasies" with friends, and listening to music, etc etc.

Ben K -

I think you may have missed a question I had regarding morning glory in my last post. I asked,

Ben K,

Did the morning glories give you any ill-feelings? I've read that there are two toxins within the seeds that, unless removed, cause unpleasantness in the line of stomach pains and headaches. Did you experience anything like this, or did you extract the LSA beforehand?

I just thought that I would throw that back out beforehand to give you another chance to catch that, since the posts are somewhat numerous and lengthy together. It would certainly be easy to miss.

Ah yeah sorry mate. Heres the deal with that. If you can find a wholesale seed distributer around, you can buy like a pound or 2 of seeds for really cheap. These dont have any of the pesticides that most seed companys put on there. I have also heard there more potent

if you cant find a wholesale dist., find a walgreens. They usually have untreated seeds. The most important thing about finding untreated seeds is this: the government REQUIRES them to put a warning about not ingesting, or not meant for human consumption, etc. So you can go to literally any place that sells flower seeds and find a package without a warning.

If you want some tips on preperation and ingestion just pm me, i could tell you the best ways.

I suspected the 'spiral effect' of negative astral experiences and bad LSD trips shared a common cause, but are you saying that all drug-induced experiences are actually kinds of forced entries into other consciousnesses?

Duh! You are definitely in another state of consiousness when you are a drug experiance! Thats why you do it! The thing is, i suspect that alot of the epiphanies and such that people have on drugs are just F2oC experiances that they objectively interpret as spiritual. But i guess the real question is when is a duck not a duck? Is dreaming you had an obe the same thing as having an obe? Just different levels of awareness, i would think.

I don't know if it is possible but I have heard that one of the consequences of LSD is that you may have one of those hallucinations after a long period of times! Even 2 years after you took some! Is it true? (I've never took that stuff so I'm not worrying too much).  

Drugs should not be just available willy nilly, but they should not be banned either. They should be able to be purchased through properly licensed outlets in strictly controlled concentrations.

In just a few countries we may see drugs (ex: heroin) not being sanctioned by the law (I think it's Holland). Instead of jailing the drug addicts, they try to help them and as surprising as it me be, the percentage of people taking drugs did not rise at all, it's even going down!

Take care,

FLASHBACKS:

Quoted without permission from 'Licit and Illicit Drugs,' written by Edward M. Brecher and the editors of Consumer Reports. ISBN: 0-316-15340-0

A simple explanation of LSD flashbacks, and of their changed character after 1967, is available. According to this theory, almost everybody suffers flashbacks with or without LSD. Any intense emotional experience--the death of a loved one, the moment of discovery that one is in love, the moment of an automobile smashup or of a narrow escape from a smashup--may subsequently and unexpectedly return vividly to consciousness weeks or months later. Since the LSD trip is often an intense emotional experience, it is hardly surprising that it may similarly "flash back."

"Post-traumatic stress disorder has been commonly associated with war veterans, but it also affects victims of disasters and violence... Experts estimate that 1% of the population suffers from the disorder."
---LA Times, Feb 18 1992, p A3, "Journey For Better Life Hell For Some Women."

Can smoking marijuana induce a flashback?
Also are you more likely to suffer flashbacks from having a bad trip?

Apparently yes and yes. The following is reproduced without permission from Lester Grinspoon and James B. Bakalar, "Psychedelic Drugs Reconsidered," Basic Books, Inc. New York, 1979. pp. 159-163. I highly recommend this book, and if you find it please buy me one too.

I typed this in a while ago and didn't type in the references at the time (slap!). If you want them i'll see what i can do. Typos are mine.

... Studies of flashbacks are hard to evaluate because the term has been used so loosely and variably. On the broadest definition, it means the transitory recurrence of emotions and perceptions originally experienced while under the influence of a psychedelic drug. It can last seconds or hours; it can mimic any of the myriad aspects of a trip; and it can be blissful, interesting, annoying, or frightening. Most flashbacks are episodes of visual distortion, time distortion, physical symptoms, loss of ego boundaries, or relived intense emotion lasting a few seconds to a few minutes. Ordinarily they are only slightly disturbing, especially since the drug user usually recognizes them for what they are; they may even be regarded lightheartedly as "free trips." Occasionally they last longer, and in a small minority of cases they turn into repeated frightening images or thoughts. They usually decrease quickly in number and intensity with time, and rarely occur more than a few months after the original trip.

A typical minor and pleasant flashback is the following:

... Frequently afterward there is a momentary "opening" ("flash" would be too spastic a word) when for maybe a couple of seconds an area one is looking at casually, and indeed unthinkingly, suddenly takes on the intense vividness, composition, and significance of things seen while in the psychedelic condition. This "scene" is nearly always a small field of vision -- sometimes a patch of grass, a spray of twigs, even a piece of newspaper in the street or the remains of a meal on a plate.
(Cohen 1970[1965], pp. 114-115)

Here are two more troublesome examples:

For about a week I couldn't walk through the lobby of A-entry at the dorm without getting really scared, because of the goblin I saw there when I was tripping.
(Pope 1971, p. 93)

A man in his late twenties came to the admitting office in a state of panic. Althought he had not taken any drug in approximately 2 moths he was beginning to re-experience some of the illusory phenomena, perceptual distortions, and the feeling of union with the things areound him that had previously occurred only under the influence of LSD. In addition, his wife had told him that he was beginning to "talk crazy," and he had become frightened ... He was concerned lest LSD have some permanent effect on him. He wished reassurance so that he could take it again. His symptoms have subsided but tend to reappear in anxiety-provoking situations.
(Frosch et al. 1965, p. 1237)

Flashbacks are most likely to occur under emotional stress or at a time of altered ego functioning; they are often induced by conditions like fatigue, drunkenness, marihuana intoxication, and even meditative states. Falling asleep is one of those times of consciousness change and diminished ego control; an increase in the hypnagogic imagery common at the edge of sleep often follows psychedelic drug use and can be regarded as a kind of flashback. Dreams too may take on the vividness, intensity, and perceptual peculiarities of drug trips; this spontaneous recurrence of psychedelic experience in sleep (often very pleasant) has been called the high dream (Tart 1972). Marihuana smoking is probably the most common single source of flashbacks. Many people become more sensitive to the psychedelic qualities of marihuana after using more powerful drugs, and some have flashbacks only when smoking marihuana (Weil 1970). In one study frequency of marihuana use was found to be the only factor related to drugs that was correlated with number of psychedelic flashbacks (Stanton et al. 1976).

How common flashbacks are said to be depeds on how they are defined. By the broad definition we have been using, they occur very often; probably a quarter or more of all psychedelic drug users have experienced them. A questionanaire survey of 2,256 soldiers (Stanton and Bardoni 1972), leaving the definition to the respondents, revealed that 23 percent of the men who used LSD had flashbacks. In a 1972 survey of 235 LSD users, Murray P. Naditch and Sheridan Fenwick found that 28 percent had flashbacks. Eleven percent of this group (seven men in all) called them very frightening, 32 percent called them somewhat frightening, 36 percent called them pleasant, and 21 percent called them very pleasant. Sixty-four percent said that their flashbacks did not disrupt their lives in any way; 16 percent (4 percent of the whole LSD-using group) had sought psychiatric help for them (Naditch and Fenwick 1977). In a study of 247 subjects who had taken LSD in psychotherapy, William H. McGlothlin and David O. Arnold found 36 cases of flashbacks, only one of which was seriously disturbing (McGlothlin and Arnold 1971). McGlothlin, defining flashbacks narrowly for clinical purposes as "repeated intrusions of frightening images in spite of volitional efforts to avoid them" (McGlothlin 1974b, p. 291), estimates that 5 percent of habitual psychedelic users have experienced them.

There are few studies on the question of who is most susceptible. In 1974, R. E. Matefy and R. Krall compared psychedelic drug users who had flashbacks with those who did not, and found no significant differences in their biographies or on personality tests. The main causes of flashbacks were stress and anxiety. About 35 percent found them more or less pleasant, and the same proportion thought they could control them. Most accepted them as an inevitable part of their lives as members of the psychedelic fraternity and did not want help from psychiatry (Matefy and Krall 1974). Naditch and Fenwick found that the number of flashbacks, both pleasant and unpleasant, was highly correlated with the number and intensity of bad trips and the use of psychedelic drugs as self-prescribed psychotherapy. Those who enjoyed flashbacks and those who were frightened by them did not differ significantly on tests of ego functioning.

A case seen in an outpatient setting in the late sixties illustrates the kind of set and setting that may create flashback problems. PQ was a thirty-six-year-old single man who entered therapy because of depression and anxiety. He was a heavy drinker who was passive, slovenly, and spent most of his time in bed. Just before taking to alcohol and his bed he had failed in an attempt to parlay a gift from his wealthy father into a fortune on the stock market. Despite a remarkable incapacity for insight, during a year in psychotherapy he managed to give up alcohol and start a promising business. But his anxiety continued, and in order to allay it he had to keep himself very busy wheeling and dealing. Imitating his father, a successful self-made man who had married a woman twenty years younger than himself, PQ dated only women under the age of nineteen. Being attractive to young women was so imporant to him that much of his time was spent in the company of teenagers. During business hours he would wear a conservative three-piece suit and drive a new sedan, but when he was with his young friends he would wear a leather jacket and drive a motorcycle. Anxiety and fears of inadequacy dominated both of these lives. Several months after therapy began, during a weekend in a small resort town, his young friends decided to take LSD, and he felt obliged to dissemble his fears and join them; it was his first and only trip. He felt a panic he had never known before; he thought that he was losing his mind and going "out of control." His friends were so concerned that they took him to a small hospital, where he was given chlorpromazine and after six hours released in their care. The next day he had a flashback that lasted one or two hours and was almost as frightening as the original experience. Flashbacks continued for six months, their frequency, duration, and severity eventually diminishing to the point where it was difficult for him to determine whether they were related to the LSD trip or merely an intensification of his usual anxiety. In fact, the patient described the flashbacks as being like very much enhanced anxiety episodes. Even several years after this experience, when he became very anxious, he was reminded of the trip and these flashbacks. He denied that these experiences had any perceptual or cognitive aspect; both during the LSD trip and later, the only symptom was panic. There is no question that the nature of his trip was influenced by the unfortunate set and setting. It is a matter of speculation what part his underlying chronic anxiety played in the development and form of the flashback phenomena.

Several explanations for flashbacks have been proposed. One is that the drug has lowered the threshold for imagery and fantasy and made them less subject to voluntary control; in another version of this explanation, flashbacks are caused by a heightened attention to certain aspects of immediate sensory experience suggested by drug trips and reinforced by the community of drug users. Something more seems to be needed to account for repeated fearful relivings of sequences from past drug trips, and these have been explained as similar to traumatic neuroses precipitated by fright: disturbing unconscious material has risen to consciousness during the drug trip and can be neither accepted nor repressed. For example, D. F. Saidel and R. Babineau (1976) have reported a case of recurrent flashbacks -- three years of blurring images and auditory distortions, with some anxiety and confusion -- which they regard as a neurosis founded on the patient's problems with his career and his relationship to his mother. (See also Horowitz 1969; Shick and Smith 1970; Heaton 1975.) Another explanation treats the flashback as an example of recall associated with a particular level of arousal. (Fischer 1971). In this conception the memory of an experience is best retrieved when the rate of mental data-processing is the same as it was during the original experience -- in other words, when the state of consciousness in similar. Therefore, psychedelic experiences are likely to be recalled and relived when the ego's sorting and control of sensory information is disturbed by drugs, stress, or the state of half-sleep.

-From the LSD FAQ at http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml

6 pages have been written by those who are NOT drug user's...(stating mostly the drastic downfalls, the poisonous attributes, and oh-so-typically winding up on the point  of illegality. (we all know these things)(we all know so damn much about everything...don't we). And may it be understood that I have a problem...not with any individuals right to live in whatever mindset they choose, nor to contemplate the things or worlds outside...but to ignorantly (sorry there is no other word) draw boxes around other people, and force that their (conditioned) view point, supported by the majority of "decent/upstanding/functional/law-abiding" citizens it the ONLY CORRECT function....but on to the free-diving issue...

Exactly. I like to think of it caveman style. What negative things could happen if a person who was never involved in any kind of society whatsoever, spoke no language, etc., took the drug. The reason i do this is exactly what you said, to shed societys constant labeling and the taboo around it. I guess you could say i have started to try to "uncondition" myself. And not just on drugs, but everything from religion, to materialism. Let me tell ya, living in the suburbs SUCKS!

BenK what is your reason for drawing a line between poppy seeds and morning glory seeds? I'm not surprised you didn't like the DXM, when you think about the trip it took before it got to you...I can't see where it would be anywhere near pleasant.  There's a huge difference between smoking pot that's grown outside in the wonder of natural elements, and pot that's grown in a closet under artificial light with thrash music blaring 24-7. This knowledge is an important factor to anyone that's traveling the magic path of plants/chemicals.

DXM was indeed pleasent, i had a great time. And im sure im going to be doing it again. I just have to seriously evaluate what it did and how i can do it different next time. The one thing i didnt like is the memory-loss factor. I would sit in the dark with my friends for hours at a time, and it felt like it went by in a minute. On the flipside, we listened to "Cant Ya Hear Me Knockin" and it seemed to last an hour, which was great.

Anyway, It seems to me that opiates really just give you a body high for a couple hours, and there is really not "trip" per say. My main reason I like doing psyc. is that it opens up my "subconscious". Sitting around feeling like youre floating for an hour just doesnt sound fun.

If i am wrong however, please correct me