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When I was back at the university, my sisters and mother were in contact with one of the neighbours who was reading the future in coffee cups, cards and other things... and they were told of kind of things. That neighbour even told them about me, she said "his sign (zodiacal sign, but also say my chance, luck) is stuck", which meant that I was not going to get where I was trying to. I got my diploma, though I got some problems, then I could not find a job for quite a while... Eventually things changed, maybe because my situation changed (I got married). Not sure. But here I was told I am stuck and eventually got to move forward. So don't be dissapointed. Be patient. If the fortune teller was wrong, then fine, you can go. If the fortune teller was right, then don't desperate, take your time. Things might have been planned for you a given way, a way to which you have agreed to before being born maybe? Life if not easy and one has to learn the hard way. The important thing is probably not to be sucessfull in life, the important things is to live and change and evolve and spiritualy to grow. Don't be impatient, be happy with what you have for the moment. Maybe it is just a "test" put forward in front of you for you to pass... good luck.

The buzzing sound/whistling, etc.. is definitely the sound you hear when you are ready to obe. That sound is initially pretty low and then it amplifies and when it is maximum you are ready to go...

Another thing might be just a stedy whisle sound, that does not amplify too much, sounds almos like a screen or tv that is turned on... that one I hear all the time, and I guess it is there all the time we just never pay attention to it.

I have not encountered any scientifcally proven documentation on the reality of OBE. Now if you are good at OBE and can go and wander in the physical world while in OBE, then you can check if what you see (people, car, numbers, letters,...) while in OBE will be there when you wake up and check in the physical world. For example put a phone book somewhere in your room, away from you, but open it at a page without looking or seeing it at all. Then go do your OBE. WHile in OBE try to read the first telephone number on the book if you can and when you wake up check if that number corresponds to what you saw in OBE. Good luck and tell us your results.

when you go through the vibrations and they engulf you completely then your astral self separate from you physical one. Basically at that stage of the vibrations if you move, you actually move your astral body and not your physical one. So I guess that both experiences you described were OBE. I had one where after the vibrations I felt like a balloon going up .. so that's similar to yours. Good progress!

I do not know if I can change the future that has been shown to me, for I have not tried to do so. Some very specific events were given to me in dreams with a specific month but not with the year... In one dream a voice said to my ear: you will be very sick or die in April. April has not yet come... In another dream a year ago (or so) my mother was telling me that she has to "leave" us in April. April came and nothing happened. Am I supposed to wait for April of every year to come? Are these events of the future or just my subconscious trying to tell me something? I do not know.

The fact is that many dreams are not premonitory untill they actually happen. With time I have learned some very clear signs of pure premonitions but till now these have not applied to my personnal future, so that I do not know about personnal events and the possibility to change them. If I'll experience a premonition that can be identified as a real premonition, I can post it here, but it does not mean someone will be able to change the future.

I believe prayers might be able to change the outcome of the future, that is .. if you believe in prayers and if you know to whom to address them, everyone according to his/her own belief system.

As has been remarked by others, some personnal events might be subject to change if one wishes so, but more general events are not subject to any change, they are part of the Divine Scheme (?).

Let_s_clear_it_up_guys!

Clairvoyance is the ability to see through time, not through the eyelids. So clairevoyance is to see the future, to have precognition, to be a medium, so have premonitory dreams. Everyone in theory can be clairevoyant once in a while, it happens to have premonitory dreams. So pay attention to your dreams.

To see through the eyelids could be that you are now getting out of your body and start to see through you astral eyes, and therefore you will see your room the way it is, or very close to that.

To see things while you close your eyes and fall asleep or are trying to astral project, could be that you have reached the state between awake and asleep, called the hypnagonic state. It is a normal state before falling completely asleep and into the dream world. During the hypnogonic state it is very usual to see pictures, very short dream like things, to hear voices, music, sounds, etc... then you will sink into the real dream and sleep. The other way around exists too: when you wake up, first you were dreaming, then the dream dissapeared and then you are in the hypnagonic state where you see things and hear stuff that have nothing to do with the dream you just dreamt or with the reality around you, and then you wake up. This happens to me often that I finish a dream, and then suddenly as I slowly wake up I hear music, or a voice talking to me and see some weird pictures, etc... and then only I wake up. During the hypnagonic state you are lucid usually, but not always.

So all that is normal, and if you see beasts and monsters, don't be too afraid, just consider these like nightmare, not entities that have power, because they don't.

Sleep paralysis is a normal state of your body while you sleep and dream. What happens is that while you dream your body does not move at all, so that even (in a normal dream) when you dream that you move your body parts, you actually do not move any part of your body. That is lucky, because if  you were dreaming that you are chocking/killing your partner (for example) you don't want this to really happen.

Transe is when you focus your attention on something. Light transe can be when you focuse your attention on something and do not pay attention to the rest of the world around you. Deeper transe is when you are absorbed in focusing on one particular thing, eyes close, not moving, and so much that you do not pay attention to anything around you and to your body itself. You might feel like paralysis but you can actually move your body any time you want - it is just a feeling not an actual state of your mind.

Now when you sleep and dream and are in sleep paralysis, if you (say) become lucid and decide to wake up, then the dream (its pictures, story, sound) will dissapear, you will find yourself in a dark place with no sound, no sensation of your body, just your mind - that's all. And from there you can look for the sensation of your body and eventually wake up. This dark place is different than a normal dream state, it is a lucid dream with no dream, or a very deep transe with no sensation (and also sometimes no possibility to reach) of your body. I would say that this "dark" place is the same whether you come from awake into a deep transe, or whether you became lucid in a dream and the dream dissapear. There you have (temporarily) reached a paralysis. So that is the only common point I see between the two states you mentioned: transe and sleep. But this common state does not belong to transe or sleep in itself, but it can be reached from both of them.

You were talking about "before" the vibrations... OK, then at that time you do not have "panoramic" vision, however the idea of thinking of zooming out onto an object should help you to "get out". In my case I am thinking about "free fall" to get the vibrations. Once you do have the vibrations and they are engulfing you completely, then you might just rise all by yourself (like a balloon...) or you might sit down while your physical body actually stay on the bed laying down. Now the tricky part is at the start of the vibrations, sometimes when you focus on them they dissapear... at that point you should let go and not focuse on them untill they are so strong that they will not dissapear but only increase. Now there are people who never feel the vibrations and get out of their body... so each one is different.

Then, once you are 'out', follow again (advice of Blue_Anubis) the forward motion, or zooming sensation away from your body - be carefull the body can be "sticky". Even while "looking" forward you might still "see" your body underneath yourself ("backward").

It seems that from the lucid dream you escaped the dream realm and started to wake up and be in a deep transe from where you AP. So that was not completely from LD in that sens that the dream image dissapeared. Then you were in the dark, but did you feel your body at all, or were in a complete void? with no perception of your body at all? I never have to open my astral eyes but rather to focuse on seeing things while OBEing (with my physical eyes closed). So for me at last I dont need to open my astral eyes, jut I WANT to see and that what make me see, even if what I see is not clear with a lot of gray. It is not easy to stay in the astral like that for long, it turns easilty into a dream or one easily wakes up. I guess practice and more practice will help. To travel in the real time zone is fine, since then you can verify things later to make sure you were not dreaming you were actually where your AP travel took you. For example you could check if what you saw from your window was there (a car, a person, etc..). From my short experience of volontary OBE and longer experience of non volontary and lucid dream, it is a matter of experience and more experience/practice that will lead you to what you want. You have to affirm what you want when you are in AP and it should work.

Lucid dream starts from a dream, OBE starts from awake. OBE can turn into dream and Lucid dream can turn into OBE. Often AP is pictured as an OBE close to the real physical world, but it does not need to be so, if it is the case then the 'environment' in which you are during the AP/OBE will be the same as in a dream. SOmetimes OBE/AP and LUcid dreams are completely the same. What seems to be is that you can reach the same "place" from AP and from lucid dreaming, and that that place is not in the physical world but somewhere else. Some people tend to differentiate lucid dream and AP/OBE by the level of lucidity and clarity, where that level is higher in AP/OBE. There have been other posts here on lucid dreaming and obe, check all the messsages on the forums... TO me I believe that lucid dreaming is a dream from your mind that you are aware of, and AP/OBE is not from your mind. In that sens some of the dreams we have are not dreams, but they are travels in the astral world. The problem arises as it seems that your mind can affect the world in which you 'travel' during an AP, so that the two are interconnected.

Since you have 'panoramic' vision during an AP, you can actually see yourself laying on the bed while you are actually 'facing' forward in the other direction. AS you said it is to 'shift' your consciousness forward, or to paying attention to the 'forward' direction. It is like when you drive and look forward on the road, and then you can still 'see' if someone comes from the other lane and passes you, as the focus of your attention shifted to the moving part (car passing you) of the picture, event without turning your eyes or head to the side (periferal vision, and you shift your attention away from where your eyes look). In a similar manner you shift your attention forward even if you can see much more. The distance ("ma") is about the length of your arm/leg.

This OBE happened to me 25 years ago accidentally. I spent the night at my syster's place and I slept in the balcony 'cause it was so hot. I laid down on my back. Then I fell asleep. Buzzing sound and vibrations engulfed me and then I started rising above my bed with my physical body under myself. At the same moment it was extremely vivid and I though I am dying - getting out of my body. Then I started drifting floating toward the living room where I saw my deceased grand mother sitting quietly on the sofa, as if she just was visiting my syster. Then I don't remember, I started dreaming. In the morning I thought "what a dream", but it was so vivid and so real and that's why it is my favorite, because it was clear like crystal and so real.

I agree with Cainam,

from my own experience, I have seen future events and they happened the same way they were shown to me - in vivid dreams. Other future events that have been shown to me either will not happened or will happened later on. If they do not happened, then I might say that some of the events that were shown to me do not happen. Such a vision that was shown to me is the burial ceremony of israeli PM Sharon, who in the dream was assassinated. These are difficult to assess as usually in visions, a time line (date) is not given. Some visions are just a few days before the event (usually that way), other are more general and seem to happen slowly or to not 'yet' happen. Other visions (much more personnal) were given with a month, but they did not happen that month of the year and I do not know if they will happen in that month next year, or whether they will happen at all.

Ravenne, the basic difference between your experiences and mines is that I "need to faint" to get there, while you do not. Actually many of my astral experiences were involontary. And what's funy is when I fainted (a few times) I did get the vibrations, the buzzing sound and the golden light before snaping out. I am glad I could help. And thanks for sharing your experience.

Bonjour la Foret Mauve (drole de couleur pour une foret, mais ca doit etre merveilleux en fait...).

Well, I got a step further than you where I had reached the vibs and started getting out of my body and bed, but I felt a strong pull at my right arms, and in the astral/dream world there was my wife pulling at me! I pulled back strong and it was like a rubber band (elastique) and my arm was free and "snapped" back at me. So I am not sure exactly, but if it is that, it means that my wife in the astral (while asleep) pulled me back! (not enough to mention what you mention - the noise, snoring, moving,...). My vision was not great and after I started going around in our bedroom, it all turned into a dream. I understand you completely, as I have also two little boys and sure it is not easy to find the timing for AP. But keep on trying. Another thing that works too is in the morning, it you wake up before the whole family, then just stay in bed and try AP. Or even in the middle of the night if you wake up to go to the restroom, then just take your time for an AP. Of course with all that you might get a bit tired of not sleeping enough, but try whenever you can. That's also the reason why I am also trying the "passive" way, just to have dreams, lucid dreams, etc... and try to remember all the details... it sure helps to get used to the situation of astral/dreams. Try also the autosuggestion method, where you repeat to yourself before you go to sleep that you want to have a lucid dream or make an astral projection or just to remember your dreams.

Hello Ravenne,

what do you described as "panic attacks"? Before this happens, you feel some fear, anxiety overcoming you? Do you start to be shivering, shaking, jerking? Do you feel weak in your legs and need to sit down? Do you feel weak also at the same moment are feel that you are kind of afraid? Then you feel as if you almost faint? If this is the case, it is similar to what I experienced a few times long ago. It is probably due to stress, fear of something, tiredness, etc.. and this leads to some kind of momentarily nervous breakdown. It happened to me that I felt so and was about to faint. If you faint then you will begin what looks like a kind of dream or astral projection. One of the time I fainted like that, I saw a tunnel (or a well) and on the other side of it people (deceased relatives) looking down at me. It seems that you have a temporary conditions (nervousness, tired, over working? etc..) that leads you into these situations, and one of the thing that happen then is you faint or 'transit' to the world of dream/spirits, etc... It happened again recently that I woke up in the middle of the night/sleep due to some happening in my house. Because  of that I woke up but my body was still in a low metabolism state (low blood pressure) and I start having fast heartbeat and fainting. I laid down back on my bed and let go. Then I had kind of a dream, and I woke up again just moments later. I forgot all about that dream, but as I woke up I knew i just came back from some kind of a meeting with other people, etc.. and now I was back laying on my bed, sweting, etc... So each time you faint (or have a similar experience) you probably visit some place in the "other" world. I hope that helps.

I have experienced the same when one person is asleep and the other one is awake. The one awake has a strong thought about the one asleep and then when the person asleep wakes up s/he find out that his/her dream was related to what the 'awake' person thought. In other instances it seems to me (this is what I believe) that this can happen when people thinks about you when you sleep that you will dream about what they think... I had some telepathy once at school when a guy sitting at the other side of the room had exactly the same test as I did, including all the errors, and erasures! so much that the teacher was about to punish us when he realized how far we were from each other. But that was some 30 years ago! I believe more that communication can be established when asleep rather than when awake.

Hello Ten, and welcome to the club... !

There are many states of consciousness between awake and asleep. For example you can dream, you can lucid dream (you are conscious that you dream) and you can have an out of body (OBE - you are more conscious than a lucid dream and a dream), etc...

But there is a state which is closer to the awake state, when you start relaxing, closing your eyes, before you fall asleep, you actually start a transe (call it also meditation) where you are still fully conscious of your body and are well awake, however you start having images (pictures, or "movies") and sounds in front of your eyes and in your ears (respectively of course). This is known as the HYPNAGONIQUE state, it is entirely normal. What you see and hear is not really dreams properly speaking. You reach this state each time you transit between awake and asleep. So I often reach it when I am falling asleep and also when I am waking up. WHen I am waking up I am usually less tired and so I remember that much better. Usually I finissh a long dream and before I wake up I have some very short visions and sounds (sometimes I hear music, or a voice, etc..). These visions and sounds are completely different than the dream, then do not even relate to the story of the dream, etc.. it is like a second kind of dreams, but they are short and then I wake up. These 2 different kinds of dreams maybe are originating from two different places. Anyhow, these sounds and lights (it sounds good to call them like that) are common, at least in my sleeping pattern.

Try AUTOSUGGESTION before going to sleep. Autosuggestion is a powerfull tool to achieve almost anything in your sleep, as it is the power of your will. However, it takes about two weeks to work properly. I used it regularly to remember my dreams and it works, as well as to talk to my guide (though I don't know if this guy in my dreams is my guide...) and to have premonitory dreams (and there it seems to work again). Before you go to sleep repeat to yourself that you want to have a lucid dream, that you want to be lucid and become conscious while you sleep and dream, even write it down. This will slowly convince your incouscious part of yourself that you are serious about it and then it should start working after a week or two (two weeks is the time is take to learn an automatism, namely to do something without thinking about it - do it well, like a reflex).

I hope this helps. Keep us informed of your progress!

Yes, it really sounds as if you were talking to her subcounsciousness, not to her consciousness. That's not a lucid dream. It sounds like hypnosis, but there are other states of the mind that can lead to that. I remember when my mother fainted and lost conscious, she then started talking all kind of things I could not understand, and when she came back (when she was given oxygen by the ambulance men) she said she never said anything. So there are probably states similar to hypnosis, and these might be reached maybe during the sleep cycle. She probably did not sound like herself when she spoke to you, that was because it was the other part of herself that is usually "hidden" to everyone (and to herself). Usually people don't talk to others when they are sleeping, because none expect an answer, but I am sure if you talk more than once and at different moments to someone who is sleeping, s/he might answer without remembering it after that when awake.

Cheers.

Hi to you all...

I have posted the same topics on the premonitory dreams section (precognitions), but I have experienced that also in normal dreams, here it is:

dreams of wild animals (Gorilla, Bull, Lion, etc..) running in furry after you and trying to "get" you have always mean (for me) that something is wrong in my digestive system, such eating too much or too heavy before going to bed, and that I need to wake up.

Dreams of raw meats represent death of the physical body. The person to die (transit) is offered the piece of raw meat in the dream (not like dreaming of a meal).

Corpses and meat in my dreams are premonitory of terrorist attacks.

Number of identical things represent the number of days to pass before such a thing happens: I dreamt of 4 pieces of identical raw meats and afer 4 days had passed a terrorist attack took place.

There are many more signs and symbols, there are actually books about written about that, but also these can be found even in the old testament, for example the interpretation of dreams by Joseph, etc...
It seems that there is a mixture of the signs/symbolism in dreams as well as in premonitory dreams.

Lucid dreams are not harmfull but sometimes they might be unpleasant. I remember of two such dreams. In the first one as I realized I was dreaming (and this happened, as it often does, when in the dream I look into the mirror), I decided to wake up. So the picture of the dream dissapeared and I was left alone in the darkness and silence (the "dark" place). I knew I was sleeping so I tried to feel my body, but I could not feel anything, nothing at all, it was just me (my conscious alone) and the "void" (dark silence place). For a few very long second I felt desperate of not beint able to find my body. When I finally did and woke up I had a very bad feeling, like when you wake up from a nightmare. I needed to drink water and breath some fresh air. The other time it happened was when in the dream I saw the night sky, with stars, I could recognize the constellation of Orion, and then I realized I was dreaming, and as I wanted to have precognitions, I asked the sky to reveal me the future, and the only answer I got was a sensation of fear, anxiety, engulfing me, again like in a nightmare. So well that in another lucid dream when I saw again the sky I immediately said to myself, let's not ask the sky again... So it seems that for me at last lucid dreams can be unpleasant. It might be due to the fact that one is in contact with his/her own subconscious world, not sure. I hope this helps.

Thanks Novice for getting back to me so promptly.

I am actually not surprized by what you mentioned, since in other forums I have had the same answers: basically that none had the same experience. Then someone wrote that the experience we have might be similar in a similar group of people, where the similarity might be the family, or the tribe, or the religion or the national identity, etc... So your are confirming what I expected, but I am still curious to see other's people answer on that. It is also true that dreaming of loosing a tooth appears also in 'normal' dreams.

The symbolism and signs is a difficult topic since we (or maybe each of us separately) have to discover what represents what (or what each symbol means). So it is indeed a long a lengthy process.

By the way I did not refer to number 4 in particular, it was just an example where the number of similar objects in a dream represents the number of days to pass, and here this is very explicit in that bible story of Joseph.

Was your premonitory dream about a special event in your life or just a 'daily activity' with no importance?

Yes, it is possible. You can check the forum (on this site) about precognitions. I have experienced some precongnitive dreams. These are usually much more vivid than usual dreams and therefore I always remember them when I wake up in the morning. The vision of the future can come under different aspects: the vision might be very precise and straightforward, or the vision might be through signs and symbolism. If the dreams is precise and straight then just what you see is what will happen. Usually the time of the event is not given, but it might be given in some case very specifically (e.g. in April something will happen, someone will die, etc..). In my cases many of the precognitions are a day or two before the event. The day of the event might also be through symbolism. This leads us to the symbolism aspect. For example I dream of 4 pieces of raw meat (huge pieces) and these 4 pieces are identical. The meaning: 4 days will pass and someone will die (someone that you know for example). Raw meat represents the death (transition) of a person (into the other world). Symbolism is more difficult to understand and it takes many such dreams to learn from them what means what. So you simple dreams might be precognition (vision of the future) and you need to remember your dreams in the morning and pay attention to them and to what happen around you and find correlation between then to learn about symbolism.
The olde testement, as well as in the Old Egyptian religion (which have probably both the same origin) importance is given to dreams and the vision in the dreams and the precognition. THere are some example of symbolism too there - check it out! (e.g. the story of Joseph in Genesis - even if you are not religious, view the bible as a testimony of events).

Lucid dreaming and OBE are the same, or almost. IN OBE you are more conscious and lucid than in lucide dreaming. OBE starts from awake while lucid dreaming starts from a dream. Any how OBE can happen very close to the physical world, and then everything will look like in the physical world. But that world is subject to change any time. An OBE can easily turn into a dream like world, and it is still an OBE. For example if someone is disoriented in an OBE (because of the panoramic vision) then things start to happen, like a door is not at its place, and when you open it, you will not find what you expected there, because your mind has to make up for the rest that is not in the physical world (since the door does not seem to be where it is supposed to be, then where it leads is unknown and your mind is making it up). In other words: the astral world can be changed by our thoughts and mind, it is not fixed. Only when the gody is completely idle or in a coma or dead, is the OBE very close to the physical. You must reach a high level of energy to get to the physical-like astral world. Keep us informed of your experiences, thanks!