Messages

Man, people are trying for a week and are already successful. I get really jealous, I am a four-month-no-AP loser

DONT FEEL BAD BRO, IT TOOK ME ABOUT 7 MONTHS (i THINK, i LOST COUNT) TILL i PROJECTED.

Crap, I just realized I wrote all that in capslock.  Too lazy to change it 

oh, sorry but I'm not, I just knew about van Lommel, but am not Dutch myself.
But hey, ... at least I'm European, too:

Ah okay, Volgerle sounds Dutch or German

I've tried to put a tarot card on top of my fridge to view ooh, but it never worked.  The few times I made it to the fridge the card wasn't there or it wasn't a card (blank piece of paper, a dagger and a candle were some of the other shapes the card took.  It was the magician for the latter two and the hanged man for the former)

That would explain the failed successes in the operating room tests.

For anyone thats ever had an OBE there can be little doubt, so proof is not really needed for me anyways

It is not the first time that someone tries this.

P. v. Lommel, physician and scientist from the Netherlands has already done a project with markers and pictures. I think the test is also still ongoing.

The problem I see here: why should I pay attention to a marker or picture when I watch "from the outside" the clinic staff trying to resucitate me? It is hardly conceivable that the patients will do this.

I agree, they wouldnt.  In fact it would be the last thing on their mind.

Anyways, nice to see a fellow 'Nederlander' on this forum.  Cheers

Interesting WSJ article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304248704575574193494074922.html

The fact the hospital had done this (suspended pictures from the ceilings in emergency-care areas) tells me they must have gotten a lot of NDE accounts from patients

At 18 hospitals in the U.S. and U.K., researchers have suspended pictures, face up, from the ceilings in emergency-care areas. The reason: to test whether patients brought back to life after cardiac arrest can recall seeing the images during an out-of-body experience.

People who have these near-death experiences often describe leaving their bodies and watching themselves being resuscitated from above, but verifying such accounts is difficult. The images would be visible only to people who had done that.

"We've added these images as objective markers," says Sam Parnia, a critical-care physician and lead investigator of the study, which hopes to include 1,500 resuscitated patients. Dr. Parnia declined to say whether any have accurately described the images so far, but says he hopes to report preliminary results next year.

The study, coordinated by Southampton University's School of Medicine in England, is one of the latest and largest scientific efforts to understand the mystery of near-death experiences.

At least 15 million American adults say they have had a near-death experience, according to a 1997 survey—and the number is thought to be rising with increasingly sophisticated resuscitation techniques

I might be a bit biased here... but... Canada. >_> 

I second that!!

I lived in Holland,  US and Canada, I prefer Canada over US. 
Best country is of course Holland (Amsterdam; Hilversum) but Canada is pretty good too

Very interesting thread on the after-life: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3848

Asking questions is wonderful, nothing wrong with that.  I ask endless questions too.      But do you think having a preconceived idea of what you are suppose to experience, might have a negative effect?  I think the astral is as personal as a fingerprint and someone else' experience in whatever focus, may not be what normally would happen to you because, well... you are you.  Is this what they call a negative, positive? 

Maybe, but if you read Adrian Cooper's book we're all supposed to go (when we die) to the astral plane that most suits our belief system right before we died.  So if you're a Catholic you're most likely to wind up in some Catholic "Astral Vatican" out there in space somewhere

I only really try to understand up to Focus 3 oC.
After that I have, literally no clue

Then I have 1 more question to bug you with X.  What are the oC's after the focuses you mention??

Are those sub-astral planes??? 

Fresco, why is it so important for you to put a focus label on what you believe?  I really think the people that are so focused on labeling every damned thing, will get no where that they haven't already made up in their heads.  Just do it, I say.  Leave the labels behind and just do it without any expectations

I'm not necessarily putting labels on anything, my nature is ask tons of questions all day long.  It used to drive my parents crazy, but I believe you get smarter by constantly questioning things around you

Focus 1 oC is this physical reality, which, Frank included what people call the real time zone... I'm on the fence as per that.
Focus 2 oC is our subconscious, imagination, astral... personal consciousness area (where we dream, lucid dream, astral project and obe).
Focus 3 oC is the collective consciousness area.

And focus 3 goes to focus 4, then 5...etc..etc,  for infinity, right??

I call it Focus 3

So Focus 1 would be RTZ and Focus 2 an in-between plane between Focus 1 and 3?? Something like that??

So the official answer is probably not.  Dead folks are out in space somewhere in different dimensions doing whatever dead people do.
Therefore they cant hear nor see whats going on in our wacky world.

Okey dokey, gotcha

I was kind of waiting until some others chimed in before i threw my opinion in the mix.  but CFT brings up my point.

i think that in most instances, what people consider to be hauntings are really emotional imprints onto the energy of the space.  conversely, the more dramatic instances (like poltergeists moving things and whatnot) i think are attached to people not places.  i think that it is a very very neglected "shadow self" that has become so compressed inside of a person as to reach a point of critical mass and manifest physically.  what that means basically is that the energy in the "thoughtform" from the suppressed shadow gained so much intensity that it projected into physical reality.

I really hope I enter the astral planes next time I project and see all this for myself, because I dont really understand any of what you just wrote

but you said obviously, like you knew that ghosts existed and that they existed in the RTZ.

From all the stuff I read thats where ghosts are most prevalent.  
Ghosts supposedly have trouble crossing over, so they get stuck in RTZ.  At least thats the way I understood it

have you seen or otherwise experienced some evidence of ghosts existing at all, let alone in the RTZ?

furthermore, do you have experiences that prove to you that the RTZ is really there as a separate "zone"? (instead of just being a normal astral experience that is built around one's attachment to physical reality)

sorry, i wasn't trying to be a buzzkill, i just don't know how to answer that question cause my first thought is  "*ppshh* ghosts".

I dont know the answers to any of those questions PR, thats why I started this thread 

Can dead people (those that have passed onto the astral planes permanently) see and hear whats going on in our present physical world??
I'm surprised I never asked that question here, but I was really curious whether they could.

Obviously ghosts can because they are in RTZ, but what about the higher astral planes??

Hey AB, definitely come by more!!  

Yeah, I remember reading that post by you... it was some of my first tastes of just how crappy they treat people over there who happen upon a different opinion.   I view them no better than religious fanatics

While you know I believe in the bible I couldnt agree more with you.  Nothing is worse than a fundamentalist Christian who thinks he has all the answers and will rip to shreds anyone who even dares debate or question his/her beliefs.  These guys (and girls ) are the worst.  They are no different than the Pharisees and Saduccees of the Bible.

Example, I once joined this site: http://bibleforums.org/ and tried to discuss "universalism' (google it).  My thread was deleted, I got an infraction and I was told if I bring that subject up again I'd be banned without warning.  

Nice open minds there, people.......sheesh!!  

Well, honestly I doubt I'll participate much after seeing some of the posts in their AP section.
But meh...

You have to approach it like any other info medium, take the good out and leave the garbage behind

I had to completely re-register.  Oh well, I'll have to post my thread again I guess

Weird, its still down as of today: www.spiritualforums.com

I hope its not permanent, they had some valuable info on that site 

Its as real as our physical world  (or so experienced AP'ers say)

Its still down today, maybe it caught the Facebook virus

\o/

Here's another good forum, guys: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/index.php

You can discuss AP there without any hassles

[EDIT:]

And to top it all off, AP has been discussed many time on their site.
See here: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&as_q=astral+projection&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=www.dreamviews.com&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

Anyways, thats probably gonna be the last time I post there.  Forum does not appear to be hospitable


EDIT: look they even posted an AP tutorial from that cute hippie chick: http://www.dreamviews.com/vbtube_show.php?tubeid=54