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my advice would be to just let the vibrations come in and take you out of your body involuntarily...

when i try to project from waking (haven't succeeded yet) i often times think and feel like I'm paralyzed, but it's just psychological, on the one hand I can't move, on the other hand if I decided I was sick of this  I could snap myself out of it like that....

But it's hard to tell whether I'm psychologically paralyzed or my body is really asleep, about the only way to know for sure is to completely will your fingers/toes to move... and see if they respond...

But yeah if your body really is asleep the vibrations will come in rapidly if you just wait for them and perhaps try some mental chakra stimulation or just focus on certain areas of your body, ala chest/throat..

when they come in, just focus everything you have on them and try not to think too much and your body will start to float, or... you will feel extreme vertigo and feel like you are falling and being twisted and pulled or dragged out of it.... at any rate, just DON'T DO ANYTHING.. and eventually you'll fell your feet on the ground and at that point do whatever you want.

(should you feel feet when you are out of body? I'm assuming your mind gives you feet since you are accustomed to having them in real life)

well i can't make them stop because i'm not in my normal state of mind and it's usually much like sleep paralysis, it's pretty screwed up yet funny in a way, i'm not sure what it's supposed to mean but it's always like:

i dream that i'm sleeping, but there is someone sleeping next to me (i'm almost always in a different bed) and they are doing things to me.... and i partly enjoy it and partly don't...

well anyways what is the "rtz" ? real time zone?

last night i was in this clasroom and i was like up and dancing on the table or something and i partially woke up into paralysis, so i like, i'm not sure what i was doing, but i pulled myself out of my body and back into some place while trying to recreate where i had just left, and i ended up outside this building and went into a classroom expecting it to be the one i had just left, but it was different...

there was a window in it and you could see the room i was just in but the people in there told me to get down becuase they shouldn't me see... they said if they did i would wake up again... and that my brother was in there and he was like, REALLY there, not just, like fictional, and he would pull me out of the dream if he recognized me or something....

so....

i was talking to this girl and i'm asking her if she's really here, and that all these people are projectors, and they said yes, so i told her to like, enter me and show me her life and give me some form of proof that she's REAL and not just you know, a creation of my mind... so she said okay and touched my hand... and

like... i was completely bodyless like i've not really felt before and in this dark place... and i was falling rapidly toward these weird looking trees, yet i'd never hit, they would get bigger and smaller and bigger and smaller and i was freaking out but i knew it was okay and i should stick around and see just what this is i'm experiencing....

i don't know how to describe what follows at all, i've never done acid but .... that would probably be a fitting description...

i had the sensation that i was being born... i was in this black space and there were pulsating small dark blue/purple inner eye vision type things all around me, and i wasn't really "me" i was just like... some sort of presence... yet... i had intense feelings of vertigo and distortions as if i were on a roller coaster or being expelled rapidly from my sleeping body.... i twirled in and out of all these colors and stuff and i don't recall it too well but it was insanely trippy and weird and i felt as if i were about to come out of this space i was in, and i thought maybe this is what it's like to be born, maybe i'm about to live her life....

and i do think i came out, but i don't really know what happened, i remember thinking that this is taking extremely long, whereas most accounts i read about you just kind of instantaneously absorb life informaiton and experiences from someone while simultaneously living them out, but it feels fast... this didn't feel fast, this was, incredibly slow...

a lot of stuff seemed to happen, and i'm not really sure what... i don't think i lived out her life... if i did i don't remember anything about it, and to my recollection upon coming out and back into the room i still didn't remember anything after exiting the black space full of trippy visuals and weird feelings....

but at any rate, i guess i kind of forgot about those people and exited into this auditorium where my HS band was playing, they were glad to see me (as i graduated but i still know most of the people that are underclassmen and still in it) and I kind of took control of the show and told them we were going to play Tool songs... so I stole this guys really crappy guitar and we started to play Sober but my tone was horrible and the frets were all screwed up and there was a capo over the 12th fret so I couldn't play things right...

I needed to find my guitar, and I tried to will it into the dream by grabbing random instruments and believing they were my guitar... this didn't work too well but I ended up with a better sounding one and played a little bit of 46 and 2.

Well... anyway this went on for a little while, then i was back in my body, with it still being asleep... I wanted to exit and get back to that scene I was in again, and was trying to climb out... I felt I had a hold of something otherworldly from that band auditorium scene and I was trying to climb back into it... then there was this guy ... I couldn't really see him very well, just kind of dark and vague shimmery outlines, but he was helping pull me out of my body... I think he may have been my cousin... at first I didn't know what was going on but then realized he was helping me so I climbed on top of him and kind of got back into the dream scene.

I remebered at this point this post on some occult forums I browse that this guy told me to ask for the help of this angel "Sandalfon" or something like that... so I thought why not, maybe he can help me stay in the dream without waking up or give me some advice... so I started asking as I re entered the complex, but he never showed up.

I don't remember what happened after that.. I'm guessing lucidity left and the dream changed....

it was interesting though.

I don't believe that girl though, that I contacted and asked to show me her life... I don't believe she was real.. I think my mind was just tripping trying to figure out how to make me feel like I'm reexperiencing birth and going through another life... because... if it were real I think it would have been more memorable and such and given that I am capble of projecting I should be capable of fully recalling contact and information exchanged with any "higher being".

Also, they looked like normal humans, as did I, to my knowledge.

Did you SMOKE salvia, or did you INGEST it?

Because smoked salvia is only supposed to last about 5-10 minutes.... and... you said you took a "hit" so I'm guessing you smoked it, being kind of ironic in that all forms of smoking are nasty for your lungs so you should have realized that about salvia, not just cigs...

but... did you use an extract? If so, what strength?

I've heard many stories about people that smoking it running around unaware of what they are doing and I wouldn't particularly want that to happen to me... I guess I could like handcuff myself to something if I were to try it, but it sounds interesting.

http://www.txt.de/spress/author/gysin/dream/english.htm

this sounds way too hard for me to make.....

no one sells anything like that?

personally right now I think there is a certain area... let me try and draw a diagram

insane............................................vivid
-----------------------|--------------------------
1..............................2...........3.....4

1. Wonderland.
2. pretty realistic
1-2 = normal non lucid dreaming.
when you cross the midpoint, which is that little | in the middle, you kind of cross the border between random crazy fabrications of your mind, into the... well... "mystic" or "astral" ... more of a collective unconscious type thing..... now the midpoint is still insanely weird in terms of "reality" and the "physical plane" but it's kind of borderline psychic and can be more or less very vivid...

but I think 1-2 = where most dreams fall, most of them being mainly creations of your own crazy mind, some being mixed signals from elsewhere.

2-3 is kind of where the "vivid" lucid dreams take place... in that they can still be really bizarre and nonsensical but they feel ultimately very real and clear and such.... 3-4 is where I think perhaps the so called "real time" projections take place.

and 1-2 and a half is where a majority of normal lucid dreams tend to take place.

I think that the ultimate factor here is just how active your mind is...dreaming suppresses common sense, reasoning, the ability to read, etc.....

Lucid dreaming enhances your consciousness to sometimes completely normal levels.

Projecting, if done from the day, I theorize might actually raise your consciousness to higher than normal levels.

So it's basically like all these things are the same, dreams, OBEs, APs, etc... it's just how connected you are to... the collective unconscious, god, the astral, whatever..... versus how much of it is just your mind sorting out memories and dealing with issues and stuff like that.

I guess that kind of makes sense... to me...

Do you all get what I'm trying to say?

i know exactly what you are talking about, and i call that state "the gap" (being a tool fan and all... slipping back intooooo.....) yeah.. anyway...

i characterize the state with falling... you know... lalala i'm thinking...... ...... thinking............ thinking.............*GAP* no thoughts -> falling sensation -> adrenaline -> "whoah".... thinking... more thinking... repeat.... thinking... repeat... thinking... repeat......

etc.. until you actually manage to fall asleep

It's very curious.. I usually don't stay in that state for more than a second or two, becuase as soon as I realize I've stopped thinking, I've started thinking again.. I almost always feel like I'm falling, sometimes I hear voices, sometimes see things.. usually just falling...

the hypnagogic imagery however, if sustained for a long period of time is quite amazing.. I once saw an intricate geometric design of two paralell spinning figures interwined on a netted chessboard like pattern... it was amazing...

but.. yeah this state, it's so fun but next to impossible to stay in... if you stay long enough you can consciously choose to either enter a dream, or initiate projection, depending on just how much you let yourself see visuals, and how quiet you keep your mind.

the best time to get into that state for me is early morning upon having just woken up from a dream and right before i decide to go back to sleep i try to consciously wake up my mind just enough so it stays awake while the sleep process starts up... which kind of leads to body asleep mind awake.

i've tried napping a few times but i can never get asleep... i just keep hitting that gap and immediately jolting out of it and such.. and it's VERY tiring on you to do that....

"Curiously, more than a few dreamers
(most likely city-dwellers) have reported that they sometimes
find an obstacle in the form of electrical power lines that
seem to prevent their passage."

All the time

It used to be a huge deterrant... I wouldn't go near them... I'd fear them...

But I realized part of lucid dreaming and all this stuff I"m doing is to over come earthly burdens such as fear... it's like the Matrix.. remove yourself of all doubt...

So I just fly into them now, I still get reluctant to do so, and they tend to shock me, but once I get shocked a few times they usually stop appearing.

As for flying itself, I have quite the trouble gaining significant altitude.. I want to be thousands of feet off the ground soaring through the sky, but USUALLY I can't..

What I've found is I'll LOOK like I am, but i'm actually just a foot above the "ground" and it's just really tiny ground....

Sometimes I'll be flying with no ground in sight under me and all I'll of a sudden just be walking on top of something... it sucks

sometimes though I'm capable of flying very fast and doing manuevers and it's very fun usually... one time I went soaring through the clouds quite effectively, until I found that I was about 100 times better at diving than I was at climbing, and I barreled into the ground and had difficulty getting back up to where I came from.

I think it's kind of like literally learning to walk though, flying is in your dreams... being a human I don't know how to fly so it's something new to me that I'll get better at each time, hopefully.... I just hope that my mind is creative enough to truly let me go at supersonic speeds and out into space and stuff... because I've never been into space, just what I perceived to be space but was actually a crappy carboard cutoutlooking scenery scape of sorts....

Alice effect? I guess.... I'd like to be able to actually OBE into the  "real world" and do realistic things and go to REALISTIC PLACES... i.e. when I say I want to go to Las Vegas I don't end up in some weird fantasy looking Las Vegas.

also, when testing to see if you are dreaming by trying to fly, please don't jump off of anything [:O] seriously.... just try to levitate from where you are at the time....

I know when I become lucid and I'm on a skyscraper I love to fling myself off it and fall to the ground... but... that's not a good realit check, lol.

i've come to believe that the reason you can't stay in a lucid dream very long is simply because of your sleeping cycles....

most of the times I'm lucid tend to be during the span of time (usually 3-5 a.m.) in which I am prone to FREQUENTLY WAKING UP... thus, I can enter a dream at the drop of a hat, and I'm going to be constantly dreaming through that time span, but my body doesn't want to stay asleep becuase I'm not getting into deep enough levels of sleep.

If I do become lucid during deep sleep I can usually adventure for a long time before having to worry about reality decaying and trying to force myself to stay asleep.

This week though.. I haven't been able to stay in even REGULAR dreams... it's like, so many times I think that in the back of my head I know I'm dreaming but I force myself to forget that becuase the dream I'm in is cool and I want to think it's real...

I dreamed I was a soldier last night and got captured in Iraq... they sent me to a prison, but it was an extremely nice prison, well, there were torture chambers but they put me in the highest level, which was kind of like a school, loose security, okay food, lots of socialization and such... well...

This dream was very long, I'd say an hour or two.... and toward the end of it I kept waking up, and I knew I was waking up before it happened, despite not really being the slightest bit lucid... and when I would wake up I just wouldn't move, I'd just sit there with my eyes closed lying in my bed focusing really hard on everything I had just experienced and trying to reconnect to it, and keep repeating the last scenes over and over... and I'd lose consciousness, then I'd be back where I left off... this happened a good 3 or 4 times and it fragmented the overall dream itself rather severely, but it still more or less remained the same in general.

Then I made the mistake of rolling over when I woke again, being uncomfortable, which disrupted my flow and concentration and made it hard to get immediately back asleep and into the dream.

The first time I ever did this I almost accidentally projected... I was focusing on the last image I had seen from the dream I was just in... and I ended up kind of out of my body, but still in it, and looking at this huge one dimensional stack of spiral slides... I started hearing this song "helter skelter" by the Beatles.. only I've never heard the song before in my life, and the lyrics were greatly inaccurate, but nevertheless I had read about the song and Charles Manson's connection to it that day, so it was in my head and playing out...

Well.. my vision panned to the top of the slide complex beyond my control, and the song said something like "helter skelter she's coming down" and i got really afraid... I started seeing intense colors like I was tripping my head off or something and I heard a voice just like the one at the start of Tool's The Gaping Lotus Experience that went "whoahhhh" then I heard an evil deomnic voice going "you're in trouble now boy!" and I felt my body being distorted and contorted and pulled in all sorts of impossible angles.......... which I sometimes feel when projecting if I let my body exit on it's own free will and it just goes nuts and ejects itself....

but anyway maybe I was projecting to a lower plane... maybe it was just a combination of hypnagogic imagery and projection... but that was probably my first encounter that I can remember with projecting.

It is highly effective though, if you believe you have woken up and feel yourself on your bed, and do not think you have had a false awakening, to just DO NOT MOVE and remember the last scene you saw from the dream and visualize it in your head... it's easy to do given how tired you are and how your brainwaves aren't normal since youv'e just woken up.

Or you can just lay there and wait for paralysis and try to project if you aren't feeling exceptionally mentally tired.

Spinning yeah.. it works sometimes, but it won't help you if your body insists that it needs to wake up. It'll just delay the process.... but spinning, lying on the floor and staring at it... staring at your hands... rubbing your hands together... rubbing your hands against a wall and staring at it... they all work very well in revitalizing the vividness of your dream.... to an extent.

*wishes most of his lucid dreams took place during extended periods of sleep rather than during the morning so they lasted longer*

one more thing... simply asking for help in being taken back into the dream, if you are like half awake but kind of enshrouded in nothingness.... that can be insanely effective... one time i was talking to an alleged angel that i had called upon, which ... well.. was quite far from being an angel.. and there were many points where i just kept waking up, and i just simply asked her to help keep me in the dream, she brought me back each time, and after a while i stayed in the dream consistantly till it was over more or less.

(though i think it's good advice not to ask for help from anyone, even angels, it's not like they are going to kill/posess you but well... some weird as hell stuff happened, i'll just put it that way)

so do you HAVE to use headphones? Because I don't have computer headphones and well.. I guess I could convert it to mp3 and put it on my mp3 player, but then it'll sound really lame becuase my mp3 player kind of sucks... and I don't feel like wasting a CD....