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As far as the term sexual alchemy, there is really one Alchemy.  Alchemy, as does all spiritual paths, use the creative energy to turn the base metals of personality into spiritual and physical gold.

Ok. But I was mostly curious about the peculiar form of Samaelian sexual Alchemy that was just recently being discussed. The standard Rosicrucian form is a separate matter in my mind. (for good reasons)

Do I practice Alchemy?   Yes. 
What branch?               Alchemy is a term that refers to the Western (European) schools and traditions, which are slightly different from Eastern Schools. The goals and results are the same.

I do not think I was general or ambiguous, in fact, I thought was I posted was plainly stated. 

It is very possible to plainly make ambiguous or general comments.
Among the Western Schools there are many various branches and I am familiar with a whole bunch of them. One or two particular words that mean little to the average man on the street would clearly identify your School to me in no uncertain fashion. Just the super-secret modus operandi alone cuts the possible candidate field in half for me.   

Personal Instruction is available, but not in a public forum and, as I mentioned before, what is good and proper for one person is not for another. 

But of course.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to elaborate what you have been involved in in these regards. 

You first.

I can suggest to anyone who is interested to read the Fama Fraternitatis.  Then also read what you can find authored by known Alchemists.  Some of it will be easy reading and some will at first be difficult.  Let it soak in.

All the cloak n' dagger is too much for me. I agree with Crowley on this point. You could blabber away on a crowded street corner, any and all your brotherhood secrets and not only would most folks completely ignore you but even those mildly interested would not have a clue what it is you were talking about.

The Secret is safe.

Can you see the correlation?   

Yes. But I would like to ask a few questions.
Do you practice sexual Alchemy?
If so, what School or branch? and...
How long have you been practicing?

Not only that but some people might have learned these lessons in prevous lifetimes so it is easier for them to take the generative energy to higher levels.  Hey, a child might use a stepstool to reach the sink to brush their teeth but when they are older and taller they no longer need a ladder and they brush their teeth gladly.   Can you get the drift?

Some Alchemists had/have children and some did not, some are completed alchemists and some are not. 

Of course, the drift is simple.

This brings up another question; what is a 'completed' alchemist?

For some reason there are many people who like to comment on discussion topics in very general and ambiguous terms. For those who only dabble and just want a surface overview this is fine. But for those who are intent on making real progress this is lacking in substance. I think it is much more helpful and useful to be very specific and give exact instructions that produce a verifiable outcome.

The claims made on some venues about this Sexual Alchemy practice are pretty amazing. I read a summary decades ago from one Surat Shabd teacher that there was at one time, a valid and effective Tantric/sexual Alchemy School and Method that produced valuable results in the Eternal sense, only that lineage died out and there were no longer any qualified instructors. So far what I have seen is consistent with this assertion.

But I am willing to give any claims to the contrary a fair evaluation.

You can conclude whatever you wish to conclude.

Of course. But to be more exact, I will conclude what facts, logic and a disciplined intellect lead me to conclude. All of these are usually tossed out early on by those seeking to be lost in a cult mentality.

It's pointless to go further with Monroe because you are neglecting all points and hints I mentioned to you, even from those passage you quoted from him.  If you want to believe that orgasms did not prevented Monroe to reach spiritual mastery, that's fine. If you want to have your own experience of what lust is and what concequences orgasm brings, that's fine too.

Not only is it NOT pointless but completely on topic and meaningful. Monroe is a good example of how wrong your main premise is. You made no valid points concerning Monroe's writing and your "hints" were just grasping at straws, at best -- there was NOTHING in the quotes I gave that supported you claim about orgasms. NOTHING. Only those lost in a cult mentality could see the opposite of what is truly sitting directly before them. A simple case of denial.

I briefly described this universal way of development, which consist of dying to egos, practicing alchemy and helping others. You would know what I'm talking about by applying those techniques, as I already mentioned in previous posts.

You explained nothing about those things. You merely did some hand waving by mentioning some nebulous 'universal' way and 'egos' and making unsubstantiated claims about what you imagine they do. This is typical of those lost in cult-think. They accept out of hand what they read in a book or hear from the 'master's' lips and suspend disbelief and never pause to evaluate if it really is true or not.

Great. There are other great readings such as Nag Hammadi scriptures and Bhagavad Gita, if you are interested.

Heh. I own the hardback edition of the Nag Hammadi too and enjoyed it very much. I have many volumes of the Gita as well.   

Alright, and what did you hear that made you conclude that Gurdjieff had lots of orgasmic sex?

I told you that I read not just his books but also those of many of his followers. The females were open about his sexual activity and made reference to the multiple children running around the grounds of his Institute who obviously displayed uniquely Gurdjieffian DNA characteristics. 
Read, The Work Life and Unforgotten Fragments by Beryl Pogson for more detail. Also try Kathleen Speath, Kathryn Hulme... The last two are probably out of print though.

It's not really strictly forbbiden. It's more that love is the keypoint in order for alchemy to work, and love develops in a stable relationship.
In regards how he could have children without orgasms, there are many factors involved how that could happen: He might have some of children before he started with alchemy. He might have got too close to orgasm and couldn't stop it. He and she might have asked Higher Self/Being to guide semen (some semen is always lost even without orgasm) to the womb. He might have had a partner who was not into spirituality and alchemy, and due to her aburpt sexual movememnt he reached too close to orgasm and couldn't prevent it. Lots of potential variables.

Another good example of Cult-think, Stan. "not really strictly forbidden"...??... just sorta, kinda? I read some of Samael's work and extra-marital affairs are definitely forbidden. And it is/was presented as such to new aspirants. And now I have to wonder about how honest you are being here. I think you know full well that he had four children with his main alchemy partner who was supposedly 'expert'. And the Glorian folks admitted to at least one more child born to a special Alchemy partner when he got tired of his old one. They even admit to numerous mistresses at that time. The blatant hypocrisy in all this is undeniable. And your reply strains credulity. C'mon! ... maybe one child ... but SIX! or more? ... get real. And according to the Doctrine, for a Master to even have an accidental orgasm means a complete loss of progress on the Path. Right?
But for those lost in a cloud of cult-think these issues are glossed over and quickly stuffed into the "deep-denial" folder in a dark place of the brain. 

As I said in previous post, death of the egos provide increase of consciousness and decrease of egos. How much you benefit from it is entirely up to your efforts. Details? Your consciousness increases in size which expand your visual perception. It's not that you see details which are miles away, it's more about perceiving expansion of environment around you. Just like being in a huge factory hall which has very dimmed lights. Then as the light increases you start seeing more and more of what is around you in that factory.
You also start to see more when you look into material world and its objects - you see its illusionary nature, its supstance. This perception increases as your consciousness grows. Also, the more conscious you are in physical, the more conscious you are in astral.

That's not detail, Stan. That is self delusion. What you say, "about perceiving expansion of environment around you" is claimed by most all these meditation groups and it is true to some degree for anyone who practices any kind of real meditation and daily 'awareness' exercises. There is nothing special about that.
I have personally communicated with honest cult members who openly admit now, after many years of practice of this Death of the Egos that they have really have made no significant progress at all. And when I visit the Forums for these Samael Alchemy School groups it is clear that almost no one is making progress. The total meltdown of one group recently was a joke! Senior members, even teachers... nearly all fell into a state of open despair... the whining and complaining... the anger, hurt feelings... open expression of aggressive intent and revenge... it was laughable! A giant EGO-Fest! extraordinaire! 

On several fronts across oceans, I participated in forums in both English and Spanish and what I saw was a complete lack of any sort of real progress. Very few are able to get a conscious OBE on a regular basis and "understanding" is rare. Most display common, garden variety levels of ignorance. Though some do show amazing ability to quote from Samael's books.

When it comes to decrease of egos, you know it because egos start to have less and less grip upon you. For example, say you work intensely on anger, then after a while you find yourself in situation in which you always react with anger, but this time you are much more detached frrom it, and it doesnt have such grip upon you. Anger is still there, but not in a form where it takes control over you.

As I said above, it became clear that even senior members let anger take complete control for months on end. It was ridiculously obvious. It was an open display of failure.

P.S. Since huge part of this disscusion is based on your questioning of what say, would be nice if in future you would process what I say in my posts and continue asking questions based on that.

What an arrogant and condescending tone to take, Stan. Just more cult-think... I have objectively processed every word you have said to me. The fact that I reject your "hints" and ambiguous hand waving means to you that I am not listening. But in reality, I am looking for results. I have evaluated your claim on its merits. And I find that there are none.

What is music that really inspires you to go for the astral? To me it's space ambient and some other kind of ambient. Not long ago I listened to one binaural beats mixed with some amazing ambient music, it really felt like floating through a galaxy.

I like this one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnXcKYNOsAw&feature=related

It is an ancient form of worship -- in an ancient language -- in an ancient and holy city.

And it is in complete communion with Holy Mother Church in Rome.  





It makes me wanna meditate, burn incense and chant until the cows come home.

I pondered over how to tell you what happened during those experiences and I can't find a way how to do it without including personal details. Objective demonstration is entangled with personal details.

That's too bad then. I am left to conclude that you merely read about this condition somewhere and you took it on faith to be true. I mean, you do not claim to personally have a Solar Body and you can only report of knowing one person who does... but you can't describe how you know this to be true. I think the  inability to report objectively on the experience without being able to separate 'personal' details is a defense mechanism, subconscious or otherwise.

No, he didn't make a public statement that he was refraining from orgasm. His books also don't deal with HOW to spiritually develop. He only mentions what one needs to do to break free from Earth. But there are many clues about deeper nature of development.

He mentioned nothing about refraining from orgasm. Nothing. Not openly or directly, and not even in a vague reference. Those who are trying to claim that orgasm hinders Inner Spiritual Growth need to avoid the subject of Robert Monroe because his work is a glaring refutation of such a claim and is a testimony to how irrelevant orgasms are to Spiritual Growth.

It looked to me like you hold on to those two passages you quoted, as a mean to justify yourself to yourself that orgasms are not hindrance to development.

I am not trying to justify anything because I do not have to justify anything here. I am not the one who claimed that orgasms were detrimental to Spiritual growth. You did. *You* are the one who needs to justify the unusual claim that you made. So far your score is a great big goose egg. 

Universal esoteric practice is a universal way of development. By studying religions and scriptures of ancient cultures such as Mayas, Incas, Egyptians etc., one sees that they all speak of one and universal way of development. Secret Teachings of all Ages by Manly P. Hall is a compilation of that demonstration. In more modern times, people who dedicated their lifes to make teachings available to others are Helena Blavatsky, Gurdjieff, Samael Aun Weor, Belzebuub etc. (Apparently Carl Jung and Rudolf Steiner have a lot of esoteric practices in their books but I haven't yet read their books so I can't tell).

Just more ambiguous hand waving. That doesn't answer the question, "What exactly is this "universal esoteric practice" and by what criteria would I be able to "KNOW" what you are telling me about?" I happen to own Manly P. Hall's Secret Teachings of all Ages and I have read much of it. I also own Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine and have read much of it. I also own many books by Gurdjieff and his followers and I met weekly with neo-Gurdjieffian Aspirants for over a year. (Gurdjieff had lots of full orgasmic sex). I have read several books by Samael Aun Weor and even spent a year or so studying and participating on the Glorian discussion forum before they shut it down. I posted frequently there (also as 'Rudolph', fyi) and I was temp-banned for asking tough questions which they labeled as 'disrespectful'. ( I wanted to know how Samael managed to father at least 6 children from at least three different women without ever having an orgasm... four of them with his main non-orgasmic 'alchemy' partner...and at least one with one of his later concubines...?...the Glorian Teachers openly admitted that Samael had several extra-marital 'alchemy' sex partners even though that was strictly forbidden according to his earlier writings).   

I always got a kick outta the true believers there who replied, "it could happen".
Yeah, right.... 

One year is enough to see significant changes if you put this work as your top priority. There are three main keys, I only practice first (elimination of egos) and have seen tangible result after a year. Someone who practice both that and alchemy (second key) is likely to see even more.

I was asking for specific results. What *specifically* does a year of this practice provide? What *specifically* does adding more 'keys' to the practice result in? If the results are "tangible" it should be a simple matter to say what they are. (Why is it always like pulling teeth, trying to get those who make these claims to superior esoteric practice actually get specific?...maybe give a real example or two??).

Did it ever occurred to you that details from my experience might be personal and not something i'd like to share with everyone? And that I cannot extract just the part you are asking without making personal things known too?

I am not asking for personal details. If you claim to be able to drive a car there are certain very general observations you can make to show this. You do not have to tell me what kind of music you might listen to while driving or any other personal matters. Just simple objective statements that demonstrate how you evaluated whether someone else had this Solar Body thing.

1950's is when he wrote his first book and when he had very limited knowledge. That spans over period of 10 years and he didn't refrained from regular sex back then. I was referring to time spans when he wrote second and third book (when he knew much more).

Nothing he said in any of his books indicated to me that he was practicing anything other than a normal regular sexual relationship with his wife. Can you provide quotes that indicate otherwise?

Alright, if that makes you more at ease I do advise looking into it though, if your goal is to reach something above averege. One year of universal esoteric practice is enough for you to KNOW what I'm telling you about.

It is not a matter of being at ease. Nothing I said implied that I was intent upon comfort or ease. Why did you say that? I mentioned it because it indicates that your claim is bogus. What exactly is this "universal esoteric practice" and by what criteria would I be able to "KNOW" what you are telling me about? One year isn't really a very long time in esoteric School terms. I would be willing to make that effort if specific gains could be realized.

I said "enabled", not "reached". Read the quote again.

Good grief! What a ridiculous nit-pik. "Reached" is a valid and accurate simplification of "enabled to travel to" a 'destination'. You said, "he was enabled to travel to the "ultimate" destination". How is that NOT consistent with "reached"?   ??

Standard way is to eliminate them from moment to moment, in daily life, as they surface.

Again  , do you know of people who practice this standard exercise? Does it work? and how do you know it works? (I am very results oriented).

To know if solar bodes are real, and to know if someone has them, you can either investigate about it in the astral, or if you have some faculties you could get vague understanding about it here as well. How I found out about it was due to some experiences I had combined. In the end it's really up to you to either reject it or to try and look into it when out of body.

I did not ask if Solar Bodies are real (although that may be a good question to ask, but I have seen vague references to this type of thing in other venues, so I am ready to admit that there is 'something' going on behind the matter). I had two questions;
1. Have you met anyone with a Solar Body?
2. How could you tell?

You say you met one person. You made only a hand waving, smoke blowing reply about the astral in this regard. I would really like a clear, straightforward reply on this. People make claims about things like solar bodies and amazing abilities so often but whenever I press for details it becomes obvious that the claimant really has no idea what he is talking about. He is usually just regurgitating something that he read in a book.

The typical non-reply is "you can check this out yourself in the astral" -- which is a dead giveaway that the claim is just another fawning disciple's effort at advertising his favorite guru's cult. I have seen this over and over again. Those who really know what they are talking about can make very clear, lucid, objective replies to these questions.

[edit; and please don't get me wrong here. I don't have a problem with gurus and cults for the most part. In fact, I am always on the lookout for a good one that I might join. I like the new learning and camaraderie, etc.  ... but I do find the continuous flow of unsubstantiated claims to be a little tiresome. And I have this pesky obsession with "results". All blow and no 'go' just doesn't cut it with me.]

Astral plane is by nature energetic plane, and intentions and spirit's energies are easier to felt since there is no physical shield which could prevent emanations of those energies. There is also a matter of closing ones own emanations but this requires effort and it's not a natural state in the astral. It's kind of strange that you reacted the way you did to this claim since you say that you have been in astral more than a few times.

What is strange about my reaction? I reply that way because I *do* have conscious experience in not just the astral but Higher Realms as well and thus it is a simple matter for me to discern whether a speaker knows what he is talking about.
This is just more astral foo-foo and fluff. I asked specifically how *you* made the determination. Hand waving at vague generalities is not a valid, meaningful answer. You say you met one person that you 'know' has a solar body. I ask you, specifically, *how* did you make this determination?

Did you concluded that he had orgasmic sex because of those two passeges you posted?

No. It is just reasonable conjecture based on the fact that he presented himself as a typical westerner, married and in a normal relationship. To presume that he was NOT having normal orgasmic sex would require that you have some evidence to indicate such. To claim that this engineer and businessman in the USA in the 1950's who was completely clueless about his spontaneous OBEs was somehow practicing "White Tantra" and Alchemy is, frankly, absurd. Based on the data provided in Monroe's books it is apparent that Monroe reached this "ultimate destination" (your words   ) all the while enjoying a regular, sexually active and orgasmic relationship with his wife.

I didn't said that Monroe reached the "ultimate" destination. I said he was enabled to travel there because he merged with his I-There. Big difference.

Stan, you *did* say that;

You might have read Monroe's last book. There he went thrrough similar process where, once he became one with his I-There (large part of Higher Self), he was enabled to travel to the "ultimate" destination.

As I said in my previous posts, he was exception when it comes to spiritual development because of the number of human lifes he had. His egos were eliminated in a special way through tests in the astral. And besides, we don't know what he did and what he didn't created in his previous lifes.

If his egos were eliminated in a "special" way... what is the "regular" or standard way? I know the Scientologists have an auditing procedure that they claim reduces the "heavy load".

In regards to what you said about "physical thing", I have already explained in previous posts about the difference between sexual attraction and lust.

Can you elaborate what did you meant in regards to visiting high planes in relation to Yoga you practiced?

Well, yes, you explained about the difference between sex and lust but it did not really make much sense. I quoted Monroe exactly. His point was clear. Your ruminations about lust did not make a relevant point. Monroe apparently had a normal sexual relationship and he stated outright that it was just a 'physical thing'. Now, if you want to say there is more to sex and Inner Growth (via Tantra/Alchemy) than that you will have to come up with a better example than Monroe because his example serves only to contradict your claim... in a very big way.

Regarding visiting high planes I merely mentioned that my experience is contrary to your claims and you asked for detail on my method and I reported my Yoga history. Unless you ask a specific question I do not know what to say. I followed that fasting, meditation, journaling, etc. regime for many, many years. I gave you the exact name, Surat Shabd Yoga and I posted a link for further reading. If you have a specific question I might be able to home in on what it is you are really curious about.

Btw. thanks for posting that link. i will check out some of those meditation techniques. So you say that by living by that kind of way you reached those high planes (Atmic etc.)?

No.

I didn't say that.

And re: the Solar Body forged by the White Tantra... how many people have you met that have succeeded in this effort/practice and now walk around in this life on planet earth with this 'Solar body'? I am very curious about this sort of thing.

Usually people don't brag around with what they created. I met one for which I know for sure. For others I don't know for sure. You can verify what one has or does not have in the astral where true nature of person is displayed by default. There are likely many peopel walking on earth which are not even aware that they have those bodies, i.e. they've created it in past lifes.

Thanks Stan, understand though, we're not talking about 'bragging' here, but about establishing bona fides that lend some measure of credibility to unusual claims. The man who claims to have a better, non-carburetor type internal combustion engine will not only be asked to present, perhaps, his automotive engineering degree but his better, new and improved, fuel injected microprocessor controlled engine as well... and folks will want to see it make a few laps around the track as a sort of proof in the pudding. It is not about bragging. It is a practical consideration. Is this guy for real?... or is he just blowing hot air?

Now... I have been to the astral more than a few times and I am pretty sure that it is NOT "where true nature of person is displayed by default"...  ... not by a long shot.    Not that I am any expert or anything, but from what I have seen, the VAST majority of humanity lacks even the most primitive faculties required to make that sort of distinction and/or exercise that level of discrimination upon entry into the Astral Realm. The most untalented, clumsy, club-fisted astral stage shows are way more than enough to make true believers out of the common garden variety, pseudo-aspirants here on planet Earth who happen to stumble into that realm the first few (dozen) times.

If you, "met one for which I know for sure", I would like to know... how did you make that determination?
(this is a really important question)

And then back to Monroe.
You mentioned 'wasting' energy on orgasms and such. I have heard of this sort of thing before. I mentioned the Taoist immortals in this respect. But you also mentioned Robert Monroe reaching the "Ultimate Destination"... yet, clearly -- he enjoyed a regular, loving and orgasmic relationship with his beloved wife throughout their time together... and still, he made Masterful progress and attained a high state of awareness and ability.

Whaddup wi' dat?!

I mean... he didn't mention anything about how unusual sexual practices were necessary for getting from point A to point B...? ... On the contrary, he came right out and said plainly and clearly that it was just a physical thing, nothing else.

It happens to me a LOT! Countless times over many years of life. Often it is just another person. Most often it is a child - even an infant. When an infant starts talking to me it *really* gets my attention. Probably most shocking, was something a dog said to me. (whoa!)

I usually remember at least the topic of the 'lesson' but sometimes I only hear the first part and then I just see the lips moving but can't hear anything.

most of the time i am thrown in to alot of the battles there. maby we all have our places in the asteral. [....]
i am not a bad guy just randomly attacking. but i like a good challange. you dont learn from winning all the time... so just answer the questuion if you summon somthineg for help waht do you summon and waht is he like or she or what.. just interesed in what others do not interested in waht people think i should be doing.

I think you have a good thing going and the suggestions for a more pacifistic approach to the inner realms are misguided. A little sparring can hone one's skill level on a variety of levels. A young man just getting started in building his own life here on Earth will naturally encounter obstacles and difficulty. It comes with the territory. The Inner Realms naturally reflect the outer, physical circumstances and situations.

This Universe of Duality comes with conflict built-in. Those in denial about this are not doing themselves or anyone else any favors by trying to perpetuate the falsehood. Evil is only an illusion to the degree that this entire Universe of Duality is an illusion. But the number of humans with the effective operational ability to live beyond illusion is exceedingly small so I think this deception about negativity not being real is actually counter-productive.

Freedom is not free.

"Fortuna audaces iuvat" (Fortune favors the bold)

[bolded]

"Glow" is what is perceived externally by others, and if you are more sensitive to energies you can feel much more then a glow. As I said I do not practice it so I can only tell you what others have said what they've gain from it: higher/solar bodies, psychic faculties etc.

Can you quote what he said and context around it? And in which book did he said it?

Certainly. Context is quoted below and the key phrases are bolded.

And re: the Solar Body forged by the White Tantra... how many people have you met that have succeeded in this effort/practice and now walk around in this life on planet earth with this 'Solar body'? I am very curious about this sort of thing.

Far Journeys; Epilogue/End Game. (p260)

Divest Survival Sex Ties
Due to the need to protect and maintain until physical maturity the
offspring of the reproductive act, many cultures have attached certain
obligations thereto. While this is generally a purely physical requisite,
many have taken the position or inference that far more is involved. The
reproductive act is first and foremost a very powerful response to purely
sensual stimuli. The response is not in itself an emotion, although the
depth of the experience often causes fantasizing that it is exactly that and
of much greater import. To confuse the issue further, sexual union is one
of the significant ways to express the SL emotion found in the Prime
Energy.
The load reducer is to understand the difference. There is no right or
wrong engendered either way, only difference. Recognize that, from the
perspective of solely a physical act, any emotional attachments thereto
relate only to time-space reality. As a procreative act, it is physical in
nature. Unless other energy patterns emerge as a result, enjoy it but don't
get hooked on it. You don't need to take it with you, because there's better
in the original form—what you experience here sexually is a very weak
imitation of a part of a totality. No male or female "owes" the other an
obligation to copulate. Sexual attraction and attractiveness are elements of
a survival drive which is purely physical and no more.


Also p. 120;

they have her strong imprint . . . I can find her in the dark or in the light, it makes no difference . . . she taught me so much without knowing she did . . . the very female human response to moments large and little, uncovered, uncolored except by her own perspective . . . all of these she shared with me . . . so that I lead not one but three lives, hers, mine, and our meld . . . and she helped me learn release from one of the most difficult of all, that physical sexual drive is not the fundamental of this energy I don't know what else to call but love, but one of the most common inducements to kindle the process . . . once the full flame is created, the inducement is not even the fuel that feeds it, but instead a
multileveled minor physical note in an infinite chord . . .


To Monroe sex is just "a multileveled minor physical note".


And when you ask about what "technique" is used to travel to the trans astral realms I can only say that there is no one technique that I can point to. Surat Shabd yoga is a way of life.
I do not recommend following Rajinder but some of the exercises here give the basic idea;
http://www.meditate.com/how-to-meditate/jyoti-and-shabd-meditation

I don't have a partner so I can't tell you about results from my experience, but I have friends that practice it and one can see that they have a special kind of glow.

Oh, the "glow"...    ... hmmm, now I am starting to lose interest.

I don't know about you but if I gave up normal sex and vigorously pursued some disciplined, non-orgasmic tantric yoga for a period of time I would sure as heck want a little more than a 'glow' to show for the effort.



edit: and to answer the question about the techniques used to move into the Causal and Atmic realms -- I explained in earlier posts about my years spent practicing Surat Shabda Yoga.

... and getting back to Monroe and your claim;

In regards to Robert Monroe, I think it's in his first or second book where he first realized that urge for sex is a hindrance in his travels.

I don't remember him saying that.

He did mention the sex pile but only in reference to those trapped in a sexual addiction and obsession. When it came to regular, normal sexual activity he came right out and stated clearly that it was neither a hindrance nor an assist, in any notable way.

Rudolph, sexual energies are the most powerful energies which a human being has. When I say sexual energies, I don't mean lust. Auric energy for example is part of that sexual energy. What happens when one has an orgasm is a massive loss of sexual energies and huge strengthening/increase of all the illusionary make up that is covering our consciousness (such as lust, anger, pride etc.). Lust is at the root of those negative energies, so when you feed lust, you feed all of them. If for example a person is practicing chastity (refraining from orgasms) and is applying technique of transformation of those negative energies into something of a higher type, and then when orgasm accidentally happen during sleep, you see massive difference in your state. You feel like drugged, retarded, horrible. Definitely something very diffiult to put into words.

White Tantra/Alchemy works the same for both women and men. Basically when two opposites poles are united during sex, there is a new powerful energy present, even science discovered this new energy. With a technique which includes breathing and visualisation, a couple raises this energy from the base chakra, up the spine to the brain and down to the heart. Such transmuted energy is said to have numerous benefits, basically one is transforming entire inner energetic structure and is also forging higher energy bodies with which one can travel to a higher planes of existence.

In regards to Robert Monroe, I think it's in his first or second book where he first realized that urge for sex is a hindrance in his travels. He started using "not now, later" approach each time this urge would manifest when he would be out of body. Then in later book when he saw more of reality, he realized that lust is not really a friend  

Again, interesting ideas, but you did not answer the question; "Can you explain how orgasm is a 'waste' of sexual energy? How does "White tantra or Alchemy" use this energy?" Can you give an example that might clarify this?

Since I am married and have fairly frequent sex, it has been a long time since I have experienced a nocturnal emmission but back when I did, I know that I did NOT experience feeling, "drugged, retarded, horrible". Quite the contrary, in fact. 

I read all of Robert Monroe's books and I do not recall where he made any such admission. I think I do remember him stating outright that sex was basically irrelevant to the inner exploration and progress.

Such transmuted energy is said to have numerous benefits, basically one is transforming entire inner energetic structure and is also forging higher energy bodies with which one can travel to a higher planes of existence.

I have heard of claims like this in the past. I read of the Taoist Immortals, one sect of which stores the 'vital fluids' in a knot on the forehead near the third eye. It is rumored to grant extreme longevity and other amazing powers and abilities. But no one seems to have actually met one so it is impossible to verify.

I have also heard about this 'forging' of higher energy bodies but I do not understand what they are for because I have not done this work yet I can still travel into the Higher Realms - astral, mental/causal and Atmic. I am sincerely curious about this though. I am always game for new and challenging Schools of Practice that actually produce results. If I chose to pursue this practice of White tantra Alchemy for a year or two what objective and observable results would I see? And then after five years?....

... For instance I dreamt my boss was angry at me for not showing up to work (I am a nurse) for 3 days in a row.  I asked where was I supposed to work, she told me I was to work on a different floor than I normally work.  I knew something was wrong because I never work those floors, and I knew the floors she told me didn't even exist.  I argued with her this wasn't the truth, that those floors didn't even exist.  She told me to look at the schedule book and I just KNEW it would say what is true.  It turns out the schedule book was what see said and I sat there looking at it stunned.  At that point I felt defeated and the dream changed.
[...] Anyone experience this?

... well done...very well done....

Now...

get to work!

Mainstream religions are something completely different to the teachings of the beings (Jesus, Buddha, Krishna etc.) after which religions were formed. Religions have tendecy to condition and control which is never good. In regards to sex in religions, the same is taught by all of those figures and is known as White tantra or Alchemy. It's a different kind of use of sex, it is not based on lust and it consist of not wasting sexual energies with orgasm.

In regards to why religion consider lust to be of a lower nature...the core of every religion and ancient culture has awakening/enlightenment as the ultimate goal. This is when a soul removes all those energies of earth (such as anger, jelously, fear, pride, greed, lust etc.) and become one with it's Higher Self, and then is liberated from Earth and has freedom to experience the multidimensional Universe or to return to the Source/Absolute/God consciousness, whatever you wish to call it. You might have read Monroe's last book. There he went thrrough similar process where, once he became one with his I-There (large part of Higher Self), he was enabled to travel to the "ultimate" destination.

Edit: I edited from what I wrote the first time for the sake of clearer terminology.

Interesting thoughts, Stan.

Can you explain how orgasm is a 'waste' of sexual energy? How does "White tantra or Alchemy" use this energy? I have heard tell of this sort of thing many times over the years but rarely does anyone give a useful explanation of just exactly what it is and how it actually works in practice. Does it work the same for women as it does for men?

From what I have read, Robert Monroe had a normal (orgasmic) connubial relationship with his beloved wife all his married life yet still, he managed to reach the Ultimate Destination.

The only connection I've read about is that the better dream recall you have, the better you can recall your actual Out of Body experiences. Afraid I can't link to any sources though since it was a while back. I don't know whether or not this is true - it's just what I've read. Anyway, I'm not even there yet with my attempts so this is nothing that affects me at the moment.

Yes, I believe there is a connection and your understanding on this seems good.

I have seen this "I got the journal but still don't remember anything" problem many times. It is not enough to get the journal. You must write in it. For the first few days many dreamers find there is still no recall. So write something along the lines of an affirmation. Maybe write, "My dreams are important to me and I remember my dreams". Write it three times each morning.

You might want to google "Dreams in the Bible" and do a little reading on the subject. Then if your mom gets nervous about it you can reassure her with a few bible stories. Just a couple nonchalant references should do the trick.

The meditation suggestion is good too. This can be tough to arrange for a young person in a busy home but maybe you can just say you are going to take a little nap. 

Good luck.

The experience of the "dark" void is not to be confused with 'dark' experience. Sometimes darkness is just a pure and simple lack of input... a simple experience of peace... a lack of complexity. Focus.

To answer the question;

Yes. I have experienced this Christmas Light phenomena.

Sometimes, for me, the astral looks a LOT like this artist's work;
http://www.thomaskinkadeonline.com/index.php/christmas.html?gclid=CJSQxNWKxqoCFYfCKgodCyHZ2Q

I see an eye also many times when i do third eye meditation. Sometimes its just an eye ,other times its an eye close up with a person. I interpret it as a signal that the third eye is active or getting activated kinda like the test picture on the TV.

Good interpretation, imo.

As I recall from the 1975 time frame, this image of the single eye on the screen of the mind during meditation was often reported among the initiates of Surat Shabda Yoga Schools.

I did a search and came up with some possible good links but they all were locked in with the Master Game in a big way so I will let those who wish to search the subject deal with all that on their own.

We are now the 'russians' of the sixties, hated by the rest of the world because of what the government does, even though we don't seem to have much we can say about it, because no matter who runs, they're going to do the same thing once they're elected- pass legislation that benefits whoever is lining their pockets.  And we'll pay for it, if not by taxes, we'll pay for it by becoming sick, or becoming enslaved in one way or another.

Well, it is nice to see that some are beginning to see through the veneer of faux-decency and truly sense the deception that the present leadership is so adept at pulling off. Although it should have been obvious during his campaign speeches when he would do things like go to the midwest and talk about freedom of religion and the Bill of Rights and then fly off to San Francisco the next day and crack jokes about those hicks clinging to their guns and bibles....

The present Liar in Chief was completely transparent on the campaign trail but the deep denial Liberals and Progressives looked straight past it, all ga-ga over their Obamassiah. The Lamestream media ushered in the anointed one and the Left was jubilant.

So now their chickens come home to roost. Nowwww they start to get a clue. 

November 2012 is fast approaching. Those with the insight and wisdom to recognize that smaller government is better will know what to do. 

"But then if you were against income taxes, why would it not be a big deal to you that corporate interests are lobbying to fill their prisons, which will be funded with tax money?"

Corporations are regular corrupt. The government is hugely corrupt and rotten to the core. I fear the government wayyyyyy more than I do some prison business that likes seeing an increase in the number of prisoners.

That worry is practically a non-problem compared to the problems created for nearly every citizen by our government.

The private prison lobby problems would be almost inconsequential if the government stopped writing so many stupid laws. And with the invention of the ankle bracelet, simple restitution payment and house arrest for a period of time would further reduce prison populations, for non-violent offenses.

Government corruption is probably the single biggest problem we all face on a daily basis. Giving them more money just makes it worse.

"I could not think of many things more costly and detrimental to society as a whole, and to the rights of individuals."

I can. Income and property tax. Pure tyranny.

What a racket. I mean... you're telling me that I have to fork over $2000.00 to the government for the right to live in my house?!

The prison system problem could have been solved overnight had the Democrat controlled House, Senate and White House simply legalized marijuana...

... but they didn't.

They didn't even try.

Take Nevada for example. They do not have State Income Tax there. Gambling and prostitution are legal. It is just another business that is taxed. They operate the state budget off of vice/sin tax.

Legalize all drugs and the tax revenues alone would soar. State costs would drop because they would have a huge drop in prisoners to take care of. Law enforcement could be reduced because there would be a huge drop in Laws being broken. Gang violence would drop because there would be nothing to fight over anymore.

The minor problems that might crop up as a result are minuscule in comparison to the huge problems created by tyrannical government laws invading the most detailed corners of our lives.

Here's the first one, it didn't take me long.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130833741
Although I'm sure you'll argue that NPR is not a credible source, even though it 'names names'.  Whatever, what you believe is not my concern.
Here are more excerpts from various sources:
[....]

Perhaps you need to take a little longer. Those quotes still do not support your dubious claim.

Again, there was nothing in those links that would support your claim about any "lobbying to criminalize things that shouldn't be crimes-like being the children of convicts, for example".

Hey Rudolph,
                 I swear I'm not trying to be a f*cking douchbag, but why is it that anyone who holds opinions or beliefs contrary to yours are not merely mistaken or misinformed, but delusional, brainwashed, or whatever other hyperbole or histrionics you can conjure? Surely you could muster up some sort of condescending tolerance for people who lack your clarity and ability for trenchant analysis?

I guess it won't hurt to repeat myself;

I have no problem with differing opinions or beliefs.

It is flat out false statements that I will often challenge (especially the destructive, politically motivated kind).

No, I just found links to proof of existing privatized prisons.  I can find a link to the source of the other thing (that is, who is behind some of the lobbying for unconstitutional laws, such as the building of prisons for women and children of illegal immigrants), if you'd like.
By the tone of your question I wasn't sure if you wanted information on their existence or just were getting ready to try to argue against what I would post.  By your gratuitous use of the word 'dubious' I imagine it won't matter, but I will find the source I originally read it in.

There was nothing gratuitous about my use of the word 'dubious'. I chose it specifically because it succinctly conveyed my doubts about the veracity of your claim, "lobbying to criminalize things that shouldn't be crimes-like being the children of convicts, for example". I have never heard of such a thing in our lifetimes and I am pretty sure that it simply is not true.

This isn't necessarily an argument at this point. I am open minded, which is why I am asking for your sources rather than simply stating outright that you are wrong. And I will admit my surprise at learning this new thing if it does indeed turn out to be true. I mean, if someone out there really is trying to make it a crime to be a child of a convict -- that would be something else. (But again, I am pretty sure it simply is not true).