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Hello

I would like to switch from a lucid dream into the real time zone. I know that a lucid dream and an obe might be the same but I wanna go to the real time zone to see things i know and to proof the reality of obe to myself ( I'm a scientist type of a person and I wanna investigate the relationship between lucid dreams and obe's).
Is there anybody that has experience with it(switch from a lucid dream into the real time zone) and can give me same tips how to do it?
thx for the help Tom

Hello

I would like to switch from a lucid dream into the real time zone. I know that a lucid dream and an obe might be the same but I wanna go to the real time zone to see things i know and to proof the reality of obe to myself ( I'm a scientist type of a person and I wanna investigate the relationship between lucid dreams and obe's).
Is there anybody that has experience with it(switch from a lucid dream into the real time zone) and can give me same tips how to do it?
thx for the help Tom

Hi! I'm doing some sole and palm work and some full circuit energy raising according to the NEW system for about 30 minutes a day for about 4 months now. I've got a couple of questions:
1 is this amount of time sufficient to make progress
2 is this technique o.k. or should I add some chakra work to make further progress
3 What kind of results can I expect after 6 months, 12 months, how can I  see if I'm doing it wrong/right?

Thx Tom

I just wonder what kind of dreamsigns you guys have the best results with, in order to get some ideas for myself. I use: checking the time, going to the bath room for dreamsigns
Best resultsa so fare with checking the time.
Tom

How do I change from a lucid dream into an obe? Every time am having a luzid dream and concentrate on my real body I just wake up.

By the way: A lot of people assure me that a lucid dream is already an obe! What do you think about that?

All ther best Tom

The funny thing with karma is the fact that people believe it without thinking to much and without really knowing what they talk about. Once you start to think about the whole karma-theorie you might realize, that things are not as easy as you wished them to be.

For example: How did the whole thing start? what part does the free will play? If you get hit by a car is that karma? If yes, does that mean that everthing is predestinated ? If no, what is karma and what is it not?.........

Thanks mustang for the interesting post! It's sometimes hard to swallow if a childhood hero is unmasked as a fantasy, as we can see from the offended posters but it has to be done.

Ever sinve I read the first few pages from Castanedas, I thought "Men this sounds just to good to be true" and funny enough always when I think that, it will eventually turn out to be a hoax. So I'm not surprised by your post. People should focus on the real life, what they experience on their own and not on nice stories from others. Wisdom is knowing and not believing. But we all like to dream dont we?

I tried, and have failed so far. It is clear however that at least some big part of an obe can not be objectiv since the scenery mutates and most of the time does not correct represent the physical surroundings.  although it is still possible that one can train themself to perceive the physical correct, I don't know.

There are some unsolved mathematical problems still around why don't you solve one of them. O.k. to be honest I don't know one right now, but there are! You'll be famous....

An other guy told me that the dream world is more consistent then the OBE-World. Meaning that things that happen fit better into the context of the dream. Does anyone have similiar experiences?

Thanks for the replies!

"I guess all would go black. I don't think I've closed them on purpose, I'm wide eyed and bushy tailed when having a OBE."

LOL

"I don't wake up, infact it seems to have the opposite effect. It helps things become clearer. Now when you say lengthy, I'm not quite sure how long you mean, but I'm talking a few seconds to almost a minute and actually that seems like a long time to me, when in the astral."
Interessting, cause in LD I wake up if I stare more then  a couple of seconds at one thing

"I look at my hands to help me not be pulled back to my physical, they have never melted but they have stretched out really long..hehe"

Like in LD........

"Seems to be the case for me, the darn things won't stay the original number."
Same as LD

"yea kind of fade away in the astral/rtz but dont in a lucid dream."
Mine always fade in LD when I look at them.

"For me, in AP, if I look away, things change, but as long as I focus on them they stay fixed. In fact I can change things if I really want to, but there's a period of fuzziness as things re-adjust, kind of like changing a TV channel."

Seems like OBE's are special dreams then....

From me one experience (I have had only 4 OBE's so far) I can't really see a difference between an LD and a OBE, which kind of frustrates me.

Kazbadan:
I can tell from my LD Sometimes there is a transition like moving thru layers lasting for a couple of secondes, other times I wake up without transition, like it all happend in my head.

Well I certainly can confirm that my dreams get more intense when doing energy work. I also do have more nightmares then normally. Possible explanation could ne that some of our mental blockades, fears are worked at in the dream enviroment, but that's only a guess.

Maybe it is also related to which Chakra one stimulates? For example last night a stimulated the Chakra at the throat and I did have 2 nightmares this night. I'll stimulate each Chakra for one evening and see what happens.

BTW: When You manage to get lucid during the nightmare you can easily overcome them.

I would try Obeing independently from the energy work. Most people that are obeing never did any energy work. I'm not saying it doesn't help, but if your main gaol is OBE I would invest your main effort there and add the energy work as an part of that effort

Nice Thread! I'm trying it as well. My Girlfirend draw something "Hard to guess" and I attached the drawing close to my bed. I do only have obe's seldom, but I'll try until I succed and get it and then I'll post my experience. If Obe's are real out of body experiences it most be possible to proof so! If not, then we need to know! If enough people participe we will gain sufficent info pretty quickly. I for one will work on that proof until I get positiv results before investing endless energy in something that might be a hallucination! ( I truely hope and believe it's not, though)

Lets get that straight once and for ever...

[:X][:X][:X]

quote:Originally posted by Red Dragon

quote:Originally posted by tombodenmann
Ermm.. What does you make sure that the pineal gland is related to the enlightment process (From what source do you have that info?)? And since there are different stages of enlightment, to which one are you refering to?

Because I'm enlightened you dolt, that's how I know! Read my posts, I've looked inside my head while this was happening, that's how I know. Its also supported by the literature.

Crap, there's only one enlightenment, you may progress through stages of awareness. Ultimate enlightenment, if you prefer, starts when all of one's crystalline pineal gland is electrically, biochemically activated. "Higher level" abilities are developed useing the pineal alone or in conjunction, synchronicity with the brain's other crystalline structures.

Enlightenment does not entail being Hollywood's conception of "Yoda". Get over it. Some of us are crude, lewd and rude, especially when dealing with monkeys that want enlightenment served to them on a plate and can't be bothered to read post threads or use search engines. If it was served to you "on a plate", so to speak, you'd probably explode. Want some?[}:)]

Have fun![]

Red Dragon
Raven shaman [8D]

Hmmmmm, from your post I can pretty surely conclude that you are not completly enlighted, at least not if one uses the word in a buddhistic sense. An enlighted beeing in Buddhism is certainly not lewd, in fact it does not know negative feelings anymore, complete happiness is it's trademark (According to the Buddha)

The Buddha himself says that there are different stages of enlightment, these stages are very clearly described in his writtings. I suggest you do some reading before tring to insulting me.
I also don't understand what you are talking about when you say "seving enlightment on a plate" Did I, in any way, ask you to serve me something?
I don't doubt that you aroused Kundalini but that does not mean you are enlighted! In fact it is a common pitfall to enlightemt that peoble get arrogant and cocky when developing spiritually. I dont wanna offend you (Here's an other test if you feel offended, you are definitly not enlighted[])
But please think twice before you state that you are enligthed!

All the best Tom

Cool post weetabix! Lets go meditating and see for ourselfs!

quote:Originally posted by Red Dragon

Yes, ultimately the pineal gland. Check my posts in my profile. I've outlined the critical organs involved, shown pictures, art, etc. The 4 highest crystalline organs in the brain are the central cortex(4), cerebellum(3), the pituitary(2) and pineal(1).

The body of the pineal corresponds to the crown chakra. The cerebellum and pituitary along with the vibrating finger portion (or dome) of the pineal correspond to the brow chakra.

Ermm.. What does you make sure that the pineal gland is related to the enlightment process (From what source do you have that info?)? And since there are different stages of enlightment, to which one are you refering to?

It seems that Kundalini enlightment has a lot to do with your body where on the other hand Buddhism enlightment has to do with your mind but since body and mind are related it's still confusing:

I try to explain how I understood enlightment:
When you experience a headache you suffer cause you see the pain as your own You believe there is a self that can be hurt. when enlighted you understand that there is no self and that the pain can not bother you in any way, you are not the pain no suffering.

There's also an story were the Buddha stands in a forest and grabs a hand full of leafes. He explains that the leafes in his hand are what he teaches and that the whole forest is what there really is..

Mystic cloud
Well le tme try to explain my question: I'm pretty heavy into Buddhism and Meditation the longer I meditate the more I believe that what the Buddha teached  is true.
Now on the other hand I read about Kundalini experiences and the enlightment states experienced. And I truely believe it.
Now I tried to fit the two things together in my own worldview so that is makes somehow sense. But I do have some trouble. I guesse I'm just breathless to see how extremly complex we are........

To all of you who believe permanent enlightment is not possible, I think you guys are wrong, there are some people that reached it for example Ajahn Chah. I think once you are completly enlighted there is no way back,  its a very fundamental experience.
What I actually tried to figure out was the relation between enlightment in Buddhism and enlightment in Kundalini, but since it is extremly difficult to understand what enlightment means (Although it sounds quite simple, I think it means "end of suffering")
From what I learned so far I would conclude that if one rises Kundalini one will not experience full enlightment, which wouldn't make too much sense anyways...[?][?][?]

The dark side of the earth is dark, cause it is the shadow of the earth, you are looking at. Now you could see if there are Shadows in the astral at all. when you stand in the sun, is there a shadow visible on the ground? that experiment would help to understand what is going on. either there are no Shadows at all, which would point in the direction, that you don't need light to see in the astral, or some objects have a shadow and others do not.
Just an idea, Tom

Thanks for the inputs. Has anybody a concept about what we (body,mind,soul, god, universe..) are that would explain Life, Obe's Kundalini and Enlightment altogether?[][?]

I think it is proven by science that every body dreams every night! So your problem is remembering. There are a couple of things you could try:
-When you wake up, how do you feel! sometimes I can't remember my dream but I still feel something lets say "fear" so I think about things that scare my and suddenly I remember.
-We usally dream about things that are conected to our waking lifes especially emotional things or rpoblems fears etc, so during the day remember that you try to figure out what you have dreamt last night You might you see something that triggers the memory from last nights dream.
- when you wake up don't move at all dont think anything, first try to remember the dream. any waking life activity might erase the dream memory
- before falling asleep say to youself "I want to remember my dream" say it with willpower, to this for a couple of weeks
Hope this helps, Tom

Thank you very much Kalonek!!!![]
I'll definitly will have more questions but I'm fine for now.
Ohhh one thing, is 45 minutes daily enough time andIs it very important to do it every day or is it no big deal if I do it like 5 days a week?
Thanks again! Tom