Messages

[won't prove conspiracy]

PLEASE, prove me wrong Wi11iam. You aren't the first person to come up with this concept and I don't think you will be the last either. I see "visionaries" all the time, I am one myself, but no matter what they start, it always seems to just "peter" out. I believe as so many others have said here that it begins with a personal journey, by changing ourselves first, we are changing the World.
So PLEASE, take this as a personal challenge and prove me wrong!

This plan is in its very first phase and may not get any further which won't prove conspiracy it will only prove apathy and lack of wisdom and love and understanding of the bigger picture and that the people are the ones who don't want it any other way it will be shut down by the people, not by some as yet unproven conspiracy agenda in high untouchable places.

That is the truth.

Are you suggesting that if I 'changed myself' then I would not be interested in supporting such a plan Lionheart?  It sounds like this is what you are saying...that 'spiritual people' know better than to be visionary.

It sounds like this is what you are saying, but it doesn't compute with me.  There are any number of spiritual sites and related visionary philosophies in the world and on the internet - a great percentage of these claiming to be here on this planet at this time for the purpose of helping the process of change for the better and they show themselves by resisting and withholding support when the offer to do so is made.

They may have a different idea to what this signifies, and as I have mentioned, some of their claims are questionable and seem more suited to the agenda of lining the pockets of the main protagonists of the particular beliefs being sold to the gullible and easily led than actually helping humanity.

Hey – if all I learn from this process is that no one, or not enough people are interested in supporting such an idea – then regardless of whether they call themselves spiritual or not – I need not follow after them and their own versions of 'what is truth'

In the present – I continue on the path I am on, as best I can.



So to be the change you want to see in the world has to do with 'putting your money where your mouth is' as the saying goes. 
Spiritual people are not exempt from this process of expectation.  If we do not work together for this world, why are we here?  If we are here to better our self, does this not naturally spill over into the world we live in, even as a sign that it is truthful...that we have indeed changed ourselves?

This is what is happening now and you can see how far it's getting us! 
I am a optimist, not a pessimist, but if your plan started to show signs of success, it would immediately be shut down. Unfortunately this is the truth!

Actually no LionHeart it is not 'the truth' for the simple reason it has never been attempted.
This plan is in its very first phase and may not get any further which won't prove conspiracy it will only prove apathy and lack of wisdom and love and understanding of the bigger picture and that the people are the ones who don't want it any other way it will be shut down by the people, not by some as yet unproven conspiracy agenda in high untouchable places.

That is the truth.

I was quiet surprised at your post.  The reason less intelligent people are going along with and trusting the more intelligent has to do with politics and this is the reason I am suggesting a plan of action which can by-pass politics and appeal directly to the people – no matter what level their intelligence is at.  That is why such a plan has to be able to withstand intelligent critique and also be understandable to the average individual.

I appeal to both your optimistic nature as well as to your avatar – knowing that 'Lion+Heart' are synonymous with courage and conviction – for you to support such a plan and start thinking in terms of how to contribute that optimism into this initial stage of development.

Seriously this really is nothing new, as far as ideas go.  30 years ago sitting on a roof in a neighborhood I started to imagine what it would be like if fences between houses didn't exist.
Then I started to think about why there were fences in the first place...if you keep on thinking about things like that you start to formulate ideas...

I know this is a lot of information to take in - and it appears to be like 'spamming' but after this post you will be up to speed with what I have offered to other forums as part of the underlying 'how to' ideas I am formulating.
Once again - thanks for your indulgence.




What do I mean when I say 'Paradise'?

Really I am using the word to denote the stark differences between the experience we are collectively engaged within and building, which is prison like in its reality, and an alternative that we could build.

The significant thing to realise is that we are all taught – one way or another – a particular curriculum which has involved the same process for a very long time.
Those with aptitude and intelligence can apply themselves within the focus of their chosen or desired career and are seen to be the most useful in terms of place and position within the prison systems.

Those who are obviously less functional, less intelligent are relegated roles of the more menial and less variant.  They are considered to be less important to the whole, as can be seen in the income they receive for the services they render.

While this is a natural outcome of the particular path of our species evolution, it is non workable in terms of reality in today's day and age – in where we are heading as a species simply because equality is measured differently and the prevailing attitude is that not all humans are equal, based on false premises which are believed to be true, as they are educated into us and become a part of who we think we are, which serve the systems that control the societies in the direction the most intelligent members of those societies wish it to proceed.

The less intelligent members simply go along, trusting in the more intelligent to deliver on their promises.

When delivery does not happen, often this is meet with mobs protesting and this also escalates into riot depending on the objectives of the ones leading the protests, as well as those who infiltrate such protests for the specific agenda of starting trouble.

In most cases protest does not work.

Successive generations of lower class individuals built the infrastructure of all these physical systems – they literally built these 'prisons' they occupy which were designed by the engineers and scientists, administered by the politics and encouraged to continue with 'the good work' by the religions.

So why not ask ourselves...if we are building infrastructures in which we as a society can live in, why not build them another way?

What do I mean by this?

I mean, we need to change the way we think and behave.  We need to look at where our thinking and behaving is leading us, and our offspring.  WE are building a prison for our children and grandchildren because we have not thought about what it is we are doing, what it is we are trusting in and allowing to persuade us that not only is this the best way to do things, but it is the only way.  It is the way of human nature.

We can change that nature because it is not hardwired into our very DNA – it is simply something which we have been educated into thinking and observing the way our predecessors did things, we do the same.

We need not argue or even judge that our predecessors got it wrong or are responsible for the state we find ourselves in.  Such thinking will not change that state – we need to be able to simply understand that they knew no better and were not faced with the same immediate issues as we now rapidly have to acknowledge.

In acknowledging and forgiving them their mistakes we can turn away from being taught by the past and set our attention on the future – a future which we can create – one in which we can imagine and learn from.

Our biggest problem is money.  It is simply not necessary.  We have allowed it to dictate the terms and conditions of being human.

See the reality.  We are upon a planet which provides everything we could possibly need as a species in order to survive and to prosper yet we charge ourselves – each other - the right to life.

There is no sanity in such a concept yet here we are repeating the processes generation after generation until it has become the standard.

There have been various ways in which these systems have been empowered, often through brutal measures.  That is our history.

Here in today's busy world of consumerism we are caught up in the excitement of it all and are not thinking about the future – we are content to reap the immediate rewards of the artificial paradise of our situation, and excuse ourselves by saying that the human race is doomed anyway, so what the hey!

We need to get wise.

The so-called free world has the opportunity and even to some extent the understanding of the philosophy of giving.  We need to start giving – not to other countries in need of obvious assistance – we have done and still do this but it isn't working very well because we are forgetting to give to ourselves.  We are charging ourselves.

We need to understand that the right to ownership of earth and resource does not belong to individuals or corporations – it belongs to every humans being as a matter of right.
If we can focus on this and use it to re-think our situation, we will have the greatest of chances to pull ourselves away from the brink of disaster, and in doing so – example to the rest of the world how they to can lift themselves up, ditch the handed down formative educated beliefs and enjoin with the sapience of the new human system devoid of the old way of thinking and acting.

We of the free world have excess.  We need to give from this excess to ourselves.

Instead of money for service, we exchange that philosophy for a new one.  We teach ourselves and our offspring that our lives belong to this ideal.  In return for food clothing shelter and health, we give the energy of our lives to nurturing and building upon that which will naturally outflow from this philosophy – from this new way of thinking.

Thoughts?

The idea is to create a hypothetical workable plan – put it through the critical thinking wringer as it grows and adjust accordingly.

It is a huge task which will require the input of many individuals and it come from the bottom layer of the hierarchal pile – namely us peons.

The illusion is that the power is in the hands of the prison administrators – governments etc and this pattern repeats itself through the layers of society down to the local government and admin.

The media often refers to 'Government' as if this was a separate entity from 'the people' which as you point out, has become the understanding.
So when – for example – we hear the expression "The Government will get such and such" we don't think of us the people.

Now we know of the various conflicts happening in the Middle East where dictatorships are being challenged by the people and the people are demanding democracy as a better alternative, and we can agree that compared to what they have, it is a better alternative.

However it is not the best alternative.  There is still gross inequality, and great dysfunction. 

I remember when the 'Occupy' events were news.  I remember seeing a smug wall street suit ask some of the protesters "what do you want" and various replies were forthcoming.  The suit replied "So what is your plan – show me your plan."  There was silence to this request.

The simple reason for this is that we don't have a plan – we want action, we want change and we expect the big guns to come up with something which is fair and just?

So – we need a plan which cannot deny us as democracy... 'We The People'

So on that subject, it is necessary to approach such a task with the assumption that there is no conspiracy and work it from that angle – keep conspiracy out of the equation.

What we need at the end of this process is something which is foolproof as a model – in other words it can be seen as a workable alternative where no one is disadvantaged and it needs to be simple enough for the average person to understand.

When this is achieved then the internet can come into play as a medium for speeding the process of getting it out there – but that comes later on – we know that things can go viral so such a plan needs to have this in mind because it needs to be something which grabs the attention and support of as many as possible, the advantage being that most people are in the 'disadvantaged' category, even by their own estimate.

Before this can happen, the plan must grow enough and be circulated within forums, blogs and other such mediums in order for it to be added to, critiqued and supported by as many as possible.

It has to exclude 'dreaminess' – this is where critical thinking will come into play – the plan needs to be neutral in regard to any belief systems and pass the most sceptical analysis.

While the plan must envision the whole world, it must start within the context of the so-called free world of democracy which is to say that any such plan at the point of induction has to come from the free world and spread out as it will into the less democratic countries.

I have plenty of ideas which I think can work.  Any concerns or criticisms can be addressed as they come, but those criticisms must also come from a place of non-conspiracy related foundations.

This is to say – anything not proven as an actuality in regard to free world government agenda cannot be used to argue against any such plan being realised.

Thoughts?

Wi11iam, your heart is in the right place! 
Unfortunately this takes effort. I talk to people everyday, but they are wayyyyyyyyyyy too consumed in their own lives to care about other people's. I always hear the reply "I am too busy". This is where the real problem lies. If we ever had a shutdown of the entire electrical system and people had nothing but free time on their hands, then and only then could I say that this might work. But, we can always plant the seed and hope it grows. I have been trying to plant that seed all my life, but have seen only small signs of growth. Just when I see a little progress, something happens to destroy what little we have accomplished.

I imagine it will take a breakdown in society to cause enough of a shock for people to start to take notice of these issues.

Not a war... because war means sides and bitterness in the long run.

a natural disaster of some sort... one that cuts the population down and shakes up the way of modern life.

Then a phoenix shall rise from the ashes...

Ok... I sound a bit like a bond baddie or a supervillian... but I think the way things are, selfishness rules and the world is ran by buffoons.

I agree completely with Lionheart, your heart is definitely in the right place.
The problem is that you can't directly change the world.  It's just not possible... many have tried, all have failed.
As I've said before, there is only one conclusion: you can only change yourself... and once you come that conclusion and begin the journey, you'll love what happens.

Look at the people who have made that decision...
Ghandi...
Mother Teresa...
Buddha...
etc...

They didn't try to change the world.  They changed themselves and made the world a better place because of it.
Is it possible?  Sure... anything's possible.

But let's be honest, there will always be people on this planet who will happily take advantage of someone else for their own gain. 
So such a system wouldn't work on this planet... at least not in this day and age, for now.
I'm actually a firm believer of this as well, Bedeekin.

That billions of people will have to die first in order for humanity to wake up from this slumber we seem to be in.

This would be the "short cut" to spiritual awakening for humanity, and it obviously comes with a huge price. 
Otherwise, it's going to be a long and arduous journey while each individual finds spirituality within themselves.

Hey guys and thank you for your replies.

As you might suspect, I am posting the OP into other forums for feedback and to start the momentum.
I can say right away that your concerns and points of view are similar to others in regard to the 'impossibility' of this but as I continue sharing the outlines of the plan people are beginning to warm to it.

So – hoping that you won't mind I would like to post those things to help you better appreciate where I am coming from with this.

I will say however that this is not about one person.  You are correct absolutely that it would not be possible.
Indeed it will take the majority of people to make this thing a reality.

Those individuals mentioned... Ghandi...Mother Teresa...Buddha... hey there are even a few left off that list – but whatever!  The fact of the matter is that while they were individuals, what they had to say and what they did as individuals had profound effects on the way our species has evolved (at least I think so) and I sincerely doubt we would even be discussing this if that were not the case – indeed I sincerely doubt there would even be such a thing as the internet!

But anyway, I will post another couple of things to help clarify where I am coming from and I thank you all for your patience and feedback.

Sincerely.

[From Prison to Paradise.]

From Prison to Paradise.

The focus should be on the solution to the world's problems.

Are we Human Beings able to build a paradise on Earth?

What are the obstacles to achieving this?

How can these obstacles be addressed and hypothetical workable alternatives created and made real?

Ask yourself this. In relation to the world you live in, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

What are the major problems of the world today?

We are building and refining systems which are traceable to ancient times.  These systems have been handed down from generation to generation and taught to us as something which is worthwhile investing our lives into and they are showing themselves to be inadequate to our fast changing world and in need of serious overhaul or even to be abandoned in favour of a new system.

We have put men on the moon.  There is no reason why we cannot make a paradise of the world, rather than the prison is has been for many and is becoming for more.

Is it possible to create a hypothetical workable system which is based on equality and true freedom for everyone?

I think that it is.

I think that the collective human potential to move forward and to succeed through wisdom and foresight and create on this planet something every person can be proud to be a part of and think of as worthy of giving ones life time to without hesitation and with genuine commitment and unreserved trust that the outcome can only be good for one and for all.

Since ancient times we have been told that we have to earn the right to life – to the things that help sustain life.

Food.

Clothing.

Shelter.

Health.

In times when such things were a matter of survival and our tools were limited, we had no choice but to cooperate with whatever system was in place, and regardless of the overseeing power or where they got their authority from or claimed to get their authority from or how they chose to treat those they ruled, we had to put up with it or die.

Those systems are still in place and in today's world are more efficient and effective in terms of maintaining control and directing human beings wherever the directives wished.

Yet the systems are proving to be useless for anything other than suppression and control.  We are prisoners on our own planet and we are losing.

We have been led down the garden path and fed on false promises and our selfish side has agreed to this and most of us in some way use others to our advantage and consider this smart and acceptable practice, even sanctioned by nature itself.

We tell ourselves that this is how evolution works, or this is how some god concept wants it to be.  We tell ourselves this because we have been taught to believe it and if some are disadvantaged by our choices and are not intelligent enough to see, then that is their problem.

That is their lot in life.

They lose.

That is how things are done in prison.

But we are all in this together and we will either make it here or we will fail.  We are not going anywhere 'out there' any time soon.
This is the place and we can continue building our prison – securing it for our children's future, just as our parents have done with their choices, or we can say enough already, time for a complete change and get about making it so.

We can think about building paradise instead and find a way to make it a reality.

I don't know about that. When the History Channel created a new channel known as H2 we bought into it.  We really enjoyed all the documentaries, etc. on the History Channel, then they took the good stuff off and put it on H2, pressuring people to buy the new channel. Their strategy paid off on me, lol. We then noticed we had to upgrade our Dish package to 135 more channels if we wished to get H2. So, we did and we found we had Nat Geo and the Science Channel , there's a lot of other channels too, but we don't watch most of those. Anyways, before I had the Science Channel I would just wait for a week or so after the program, then go on HULU.com and watch it for free. So, you could do that, but it usually takes about week before they start showing it, I'm sure that has something to do with licensing.

Ah yes - one of those prison system strategies.    No probs - how did you find the program Lionheart? 

Wi11iam, I have a feeling you are going to like tonight's episode of "Through the Wormhole", the topic was on time and eternity. Many different interesting viewpoints were talked about including a "virtual reality" theory. Tonight's episode was called "Will Eternity End?"

Hey Lionheart Xanth and Bedeekin


Thanks for that heads up on "Will Eternity End" Lionheart.  Is there a link yet to the full episode?

Bedeekin - your question could be answered by your own thought processes.  You could ask me 'what do I mean by prison?' but I think generally speaking it is clear enough that I am saying we can - as a specie - use our creative prowess to create something which is not a prison or operated along the same principles as a prison - something I have called 'paradise' - perhaps because it also starts with a "P" and gives a stark contrast to 'prison'.

William... I have posted in a forum recently... and all your posts on here and there are almost identical. Well the ones you interacted with me... on a thread called 'are we living in a virtual reality'  Whaaaas goin on? lol

My posts in other forums are very similar but certainly not identical - apart from the OP - I haven't had to cut and paste yet.

I am interrelating in other forums regarding this topic Bedeekin is 'what's going on'.

I am interested in observing how others with very different belief systems respond to this concept - especially the concept of building paradise on this planet.  

If you look at the different forum same topic and read through the posts you should notice how the subject varies depending on what input happens.  It all helps.

Com Method?  

Method of communication I use on occasion.  I could explain in more detail but essentially I simply use a list in a word processor (actually normally two separate lists for added 'random' effect but I only used one in for the above message posted) and using page up and down keys quickly scroll through the....(checking number of pages...) 35 pages stopping at random and where the cursor stops I copy and paste the line into a separate doc which becomes the message through repeating this process.

The system (Com Method) I use was developed from my interaction and observation of Ouija Principle over many years.

This is one of the reasons I have come to understand that we are living within a Virtual Reality...because this systems works and no matter how 'random' you try to get, it still gives coherent and relevant information. (to the subjective observer)

Tom Campbell:Why Virtual Reality is a Better Model Than String Theory or Holographic Theory

I enjoyed this vid.

Nearer the end While still listening I used my Com Method and received this message.

Astral Pulse
Source Codes Feel Re-channel.
How can it be any other way?
Cymatics Hear Me Now You Do
Light Body Even As An Elemental Principle
Given Self Awareness Transforming The Anger Energy
Glad You Asked
FSH

"I could awaken each of you in this very moment to our unity, but there is a larger design – a more comprehensive vision – that places you in the boundaries of time and the spatial dimensions of separateness. This design requires a progression into my wholeness that reacquaints you with our unity through the experience of separation. Your awakening, while slow and sometimes painful, is assured, and this you must trust above all else."

Source Codes
Recording Music
Lyricus designs, transposes, and installs galactic Tributary Zones to a planetary system
Unknown/Hidden/Occult
Time For Soul To Drive
Source Reality
Invisible Bridge
The Solution?
Jung-Animus
Extreme
Face To Face
Hugs and Kisses
That Is An Order
Hint
Soul Groups
Meditate/Think
Near
As You Think
The Anunnaki
Immediate Plan of Action
Central to The Message
The WingMakers
Extend Beyond The Borders of Institution
Haha Joke We Win
Tracks In The Snow

Use Mind
Creative Conscious Intelligence
Differences
Taxonomic
Attached
Large Hadron Collider
Speculation
Keep an Eye On
You are.

Can you point out how it was different. I am very curious. Thanks.

I had 3 projections where I felt like I was in the physical plane and not in the RTZ. I am wondering if this is what you experienced.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_members_introductions/my_journey-t33884.15.html

Reply #16

If you wish to discuss this further Todd, It would be more appropriate I think, to do so in that thread linked.  Also it is 'my' thread in the intro section so you might be interested in the other stories I share there.

Have fun reading.

Cheers

W

Okay I read the Word Press links Xanth - we have a similar understanding although my experience of RTZ and when you say

This "knowledge" of your environment gets a little more iffy the further away from your room you get until you get so far away where you can't rely upon your memory of the area to get a firm "build" of it to experience.

It is definitely not the same as what I experienced at all so although it is obviously similar to RTZ, from the descriptiveness, (and other descriptions I have been reading since Todd brought it up) what I had cannot be relegated to being RTZ because my experience was quite different.

Which is interesting.  Are We Living Within A Virtual Reality? 

Nothing can be "more real" than real.  Which means that perception, interpretation and a bit of ego are playing games here.

No.  If anything it was quiet the humbling realization.  And certainly things can be more real than real.  Perception is the thing coupled with understanding.
The experience was more real than the normal reality but the environment was the same and that is why I said that in thinking about it over the years I see this earth/universe (and in relation to the OP - a VR) as an echo or shadow of that real thing.  I remember thinking at the time of the actual experience 'wow - this is even more real' and that is precisely the feeling/realization I had entered into a previously unknown thing and I knew - I didn't just 'know'.

I think you might need to adjust the 'ego' yourself when it comes to people sharing their personal experiences Xanth.  Indeed we all need to.  We obviously have differing ones but since these are subjective then who can say or has the right to say that the other is incorrect in their interpretation of what happened to them personally especially if they are not asking but simply sharing?

I also have no doubt that the conclusions I've come to through my direct experiences are ones that everyone will eventually come to.

While that piques the curiosity - and yes I will be looking into those links - you do realize yes, how such a statement shows that you consider yourself not only an authority on 'your conclusions being THE conclusions' but that others are simply ignorant?  Kind of 'guru' of you I think, but whatever. 

How do you know the Human heart doesn't gravitate towards this experience? In fact how do you know what's in other people's hearts period? On this forum we have an section for sending Healing Energy to other people in need. Myself personally I do a meditation to send good energy to other people, countries in need all the time. The Global Heart Initiative comes to mind here. Xanth did a thread here where we could do a mass meditation to reverse World problems and suffering. Everyone cares about the suffering of the world in their own way. It's just they realize in this physical body we have that we can't be everywhere and help everyone at the same time. This physical reality has limitations, the Astral doesn't. But, you will find a number of our members here volunteer their time for charities and others in need.

Well that is reassuring Lionheart  especially in regard to the OP.

Also one and all my apologies - I was in a bit of a mood yesterday and let my frustrations leak out a bit.  Sorry.

[consciously]

William, are you talking about experiencing the "astral" or the "physical" while non-physical?  I'll be honest, I'm a tad confused by what you're saying, because to me, it makes little sense.
You've already said that you have consciously experienced the "astral" to the degree of where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical.  You just said you've had lucid dreams.  That's what they are.  Conscious experiences in the "astral", and you've obviously retained the memories, cause you remember experiencing them.

In my opinion, if you're talking about what Todd mentioned (the RTZ), then yeah, I feel it's a huge waste of time.  But meh... that's just *MY* opinion.  You might have to spend some time doing it before you come to a conclusion of your own.

I'll never understand why people are so willing to waste the precious non-physical time they have here in this physical reality which they spend the other 2/3rds of their life.  hehe
The very idea, too, that what you're experiencing might not even be this physical reality turns me away from the idea even more.  You're putting a lot of faith in the existence of this supposed "RTZ".

And remember, just because a projection looks like Earth... doesn't mean it IS the Earth.

Well okay Xanth – in that case yes I have experienced the Astral if indeed as you say, this is the place of lucid dreaming.

From what I have read of Franks Resource, it seems a lot more than just lucid dreaming – the lucid dreaming I have experienced is something which is real but still somewhat subject to my being not so in control like dreams often are.

Recently I also experienced a lucid dream where I was in 'New York' and at the end of the experience I remember getting the head buzz and began floating just prior to leaving that state and returning to this world and waking.

This I found interesting  - in that this has happened a few times for me recently – getting the buzz and the floatation and then immediately waking from that to this world.

In regard to the thing you call RTZ without a doubt THAT is the most powerful aspect of OOBE I have ever had – far more powerful and clear and precise than any lucid dream I have had.

But getting back to Frank's Resource, his stories give me the impression that he is experiencing the same powerful clear and precise state of being while exploring and recording his observations of Astral Realm.

As we all know, it is never easy to express these things in words.



Back to this RTZ – I remember just KNOWING that what I was experiencing was more real than the real thing and having thought about it often in the years gone by since that experience I see it as something which somehow is the real thing and this earth experience under 'normal circumstances' as being like a faint echo or shadow of that.  I did not find it boring whatsoever.
As far as 'putting a lot of faith' into the 'supposed RTZ' I am not sure I follow you.  I am not putting faith in anything – In relation to our shared dominant reality of Earth – experience of life on Earth, I am acknowledging the Potential – the Human Potential to turn prison into paradise.

I try focusing on the physical reality most of the time too. It has helped me stay grounded and has enabled me to experience real time zone projections exclusively. I do not allow myself to daydream, and I try hard to avoid dreaming at night. This has helped me achieve obe's that are physical in nature.

Now this certainly I am interested in hearing more about Todd, as my own OBEs are of the same nature - what few I have experienced.

Truthfully though, I did not know what to 'do' with the 'ability' - what use it could be to me in relation to the Physical reality.

I do not ever purposefully try to avoid dreaming, lucid dreaming or even Astral projection and exploration but nor do I actively try to do these things either.  Only one of the few times this has happened with me, was it instigated through my willfully wanting to do it.

I would be most interested in hearing more from you on the OBEs which are physical in nature.

[consciously]

You certainly don't have to believe me... but I'm 100% certain that you have. 

Of course.  As I said Xanth - I have never consciously experienced the Astral Realm to the degree where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical universe.

I am also 100% certain that I have and do.  But my focus is on this physical reality and having no retained memories of Astral experience seems to help that focus.

If anyone can convince me that I am wasting my time focusing on the physical reality or having a heart for its potential, I am - as always - open minded. 

Wi11iam, i would like to comment on your OP (which i largely agree with) and your subsequent comments, but i'm feeling lousy today. perhaps i will feel better tomorrow. until then maybe you can outline the protocol you used in deriving your particular theory -the books you have read, the experiences you have had, etc.

Pondini.

I am 49years old.  Some of my experiences I have shared in this forum.

I have read few books on any particular subject.

My main devices of learning have been serendipity/synchronicity in relation to my personal experience (subjective) and the external reality (objective) and have seen these aligned.

I have also worked with the Ouija principle and through this communications tool have also learned a great deal about the larger reality.
I have experienced lucid dreaming. OOBE.  I have never consciously experienced the Astral Realm to the degree where the memory of it remains when returning to the physical universe.

I look forward to your replies once you are feeling better.

Everything you experience is a reality.

But as I said,  it's just another lesson which each of us has to come to at our own time.

Yes - it is consciousness which makes everything real.  Not intelligence or belief systems - these distort what is is that consciousness might observe.

The game (paradise or prison) had an unexpected twist...an unlikely possibility.
A possibility which the 'prison' team are allowed to undermine using whatever tricks they are able to come up with.
The prison team whose humans try and connect with them will create the necessary illusions in order that those humans work for the process of prison building.  If those humans see through the illusion and change their alliance then the player shifts its support to the paradise team The human pieces can individually connect with their game players through the common thread of consciousness and in doing so allow the player to realize that there was more to the game than simply trying to get humans to build a paradise or a prison...and through this realization another level opens up to their awareness...*

...it's just another lesson which each of us has to come to at our own time

Hello Wi11iam, another excellent fully detailed explanation. Kudos for that!  
I agree that it's not the devices fault, that its the way the device is used where the problem lies. That's just like all the new technology coming out right now is good, it's what it's being used for where the problem lies. There are many ways it can be used to help, but unfortunately too many ways it can hurt.

You will find many different scenarios in the Astral that show you that they are real. Things that you could never have imagined, things that defy word descriptions alone. This is what makes it so real, when you see new colors or  new shapes, images that you never could have imagined existed before. Beings that even transcend even your wildest nightmares, you know you are witness to something extraordinary.  

Dear Lionheart.

I have no doubt that these things you speak of are real.  But they are not reality.
It may be that you and I could never have imagined such things ourselves (for we are but individuals) but I would say that human beings have imagined these things into existence over the period of time Humans have existed on this planet.

I understand the attraction but fail to see how it impacts upon this here and now which you can't deny is your dominant reality until death you do part and how certain can you be that the things you now experience will continue the way they have, and that things won't change once you no longer have a physical body to occupy?

What exactly is the attraction?  What exactly is the point to things that defy word descriptions alone. Or seeing new colors or  new shapes, images that you never could have imagined existed before. Beings that even transcend even your wildest nightmares, you know you are witness to something extraordinary but for what reason or point this side of the black stump?

Why is it that the human heart can gravitate to these experiences but cannot give a toss for THIS experience? 

I guess what I am saying is that I couldn't care less about 'Astral' or its inhabitants or for  those who sing its praises when I witness no concern for the suffering or genuine attempt to bring equality and build paradise here on this planet and equality for every one coming from that direction.

This is not to say that I don't care for you or others as individuals – I just can't connect the dots as far as the attitudes go – it reminds me of those on serious drugs who are only concerned for their next fix and have no concerns for the world they live in or the stress their actions cause to others – they just want to get out of it and forget the world for a while.

Or those who use others to set up their life styles with no care for those who are being used for that purpose.

Now perhaps this is the same attitude as the Players, in which case I would say by pass the Players and find the genuine article.

This game is a mess and I include that wonderland you speak highly of.  I am sorry but there is more to this than meets the eye.

It is my opinion that the 'area' of the Astral realm Frank Kepple spoke about as "F4" is the gateway out of the whole game and into the Reality of the Players domain from where we essentially come from.

I think that if human beings fail, then so do the Players.  What do we 'fail' in?  We simply fail in Wisdom and Kindness and in Understanding our collective connection and we fail by defiling Consciousness with selfish heartless intention.

We fail to grow up.  We fail to see the true thing we are because of the false thing we have become.

You still have to work through your ego to participate in this world - it's how we function and relate and build relationships. You can't pretend it doesn't exist, you have a name and an identity that you're tied to, though you can come to a different relationship with your ego and eventually transform it into something higher. But to deny it is impossible. If anything, you have to confront the ugliest parts of yourself to change them.

Yes Stookie this is more to the point – but what you are 'confronting' if indeed you have to do so, is NOT 'parts of yourself' but are those things mind-raped into your baby/child framework which you then presume to be 'yourself'.

They are hand me down personalities they are false and disconnected to the Source of All Consciousness – they are illusions presumed to be real.

Costumes and masks.

I know it sounds a little harsh to use the expression 'mind raped' but I use it purposefully to emphasis the very thing which needs to be disowned and dissolved.  Rape, as an action is repulsive to most individuals desiring to be free from the perversity of merely acting out an animal existence and also desire to 'bring in the genuine spiritual' through their Mammal form...and assist in transforming a prison into a paradise. 

[I]

This is where I must disagree. The ego is what causes the greed, the greed is what causes the problems. I have been shown many times in the Astral and the physical how the ego is the one thing that has held humanity back. I have also been told to drop it completely and I feel much better for that. When I post here about my experiences here the reason is not to "puff my chest", it is to help people access the Wider Reality. I have gotten into arguments here in the past , not by defending what I said, but defending what others say. One thing that Thomas Campbell is spot on with is this world was made for others, not self. Once we realize this it changes who we are and what our real purpose here is. I am 49 years old, I don't own a home, my own vehicle, basically the only things I can say I truly own are my clothes and a couple of tech devices. But this has never bothered me, material things mean nothing to me, never have. Helping others does, in any way shape or form. But they must be open to that help otherwise I won't offer it. They have to learn their own lessons too.

Hi Lionheart

Thanks for your comment.  I have been thinking about the confusion surrounding the understanding of the 'ego' based on your reply and the general understanding of 'what ego is'.

Hopefully I can clarify where I am coming from.  To me, 'ego' is simply a device which serves to identify – and without it an individual has no ability to identify – or put another way, consciousness cannot identity its SELF without this device.

This is from its original meaning – which comes from Latin and simply signifies "I"  (and other forms of self identity such as 'me' and 'my' – and this is why I bolded those aspects when quoting your reply.)

This wiki on 'Ego' contrasts the different uses of the word and the meaning of the word, which is essentially where the confusion derives.

The way I am trying to convey my understanding of Ego is related to Freuds understanding of it:

"Originally, Freud used the word ego to mean a sense of self, but later revised it to mean a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defence, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory. The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organize our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Ego

I have also referred to that which takes a new born consciousness and invests something into it which is not true – it is a collective false identities which are from an Ancient human source which is similar to this...

"Buddhist traditions view Ego not as a single principle, but rather aggregates of conscious energy which create each individual's consciousness. These aggregates, or "heaps," are referred to in Sanskrit as skandhas."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_(spirituality)

...Although it is not consciousness itself but false personalities disconnected from the Source of consciousness.

In relation to the OP, the investment of the Players consciousness into the pieces in order to 'power up' those pieces still leave those pieces in a relative state of non identity due largely to the 'curtain or veil' created by the process – there is no 'memory' of prior existence which has to do with the Players – as being part of the Players – coming from the Players (the consciousness) and the fact that the default setting for each piece is the state of being 'new born'.

Thus the newborn are 'mind raped' by their predecessors - although it is not thought of as 'rape'    - what is occurring is that information is instilled into the developing individual human through the device which allows for identity to take place...which I call 'Ego'.

From this process, individuals are made into personalities they inherit those personalities from their immediate influences and extend that identity (add to the personality) through such sources as family race religion culture politics stars heroes teachers idols and countries. Etc.

For example, most individuals identify very strongly with the countries of origin – the philosophies those countries endorse and might say as a way of identifying themselves such things as:

"My name is John Smith, I am an American and I believe in Christianity."

This is the identity the personality identifies with.  Yet it is not truth.

I know what you are saying about 'puffed up' identity.  However it is not the device which is at fault but the way the device has been used, which is why I do not vilify the 'Ego' because it is the device.

This is why I am able to make assessments which are not based on what the personality looks like or otherwise presents them selves.

For example – If someone were to tell me that I must abolish the ego because it is evil – and say they were highly respected and revered (such as a guru) and had the looks and charisma and a great following, and they claimed to speak with 'spirits' and go to places in the astral to converse with wise personalities and bring back the message to impart on the followers, and part of the message informed me that the physical plane is of no relevance etc...and that same personality enjoyed the riches of life-style afforded to them by their followers, and has sexual relations with the pick of their followers and enjoyed all the best things, even thought the bulk of their followers remained poor and in need, I would know this personality to be a liar, and their followers to be deceived.

If their was a human being incapable of expressing personality, I would say that their ego device was not functioning, therefore the personality – any personality - cannot  express through the form.

So yes, we are certainly not the form.  We are the consciousness within the form and our 'disadvantage' is that we enter this particular form like empty vessels ready to be filled with whatever information by external personalities having access to do so, and we become or identify with those personalities and if we do not break that cycle (awaken) then we will perpetuate it.

I hope that this helps to clarify what I am saying regarding the 'ego'.  It is not a 'personality' but a device used by an inherited characteristic made up of many 'personalities' which are forced upon the baby/developing child as a means of controlling that individual.


In terms of the OP, this is the very thing which is building a prison for the consciousness experiencing this Physical Universe, principally regarding Life on Earth.

This is also why it is important to see that while we are here, it is either to build the prison (be part of the problem) or build the paradise (be part of the solution) and this is not to do with neglecting or otherwise finding a belief system which resolves us of that responsibility.

Also this is why I say that the astral is part of the prison system because it is not where we actually come from – it is not where consciousness is sourced.  It is a product of Collective and individual human imaginations which have are and will experience the physical universe.

Everything ever imagined through the human experience of Life on Earth can be found within the Astral Realm.

Your interpretation can't see beyond the ego.   You can't see beyond the "haves"  and the "have nots".

Living isn't about government... It not about wealth or money... Ironically,  it's not about anything physical on this planet.

Living is about consciousness, and treating all with Love.

I speak of spiritual growth.  It's beyond every concept you have posted about.

The only prison is the one you've created for yourself.  It's unfortunate too,  because I can sit here and tell people this time and time again,  however it's not until they realize this on their own that it'll actually sink in.

I know this because I used to be one of those people.

The player – in placing an aspect of its consciousness into the human piece to 'power it up' causes something to be created which is called "Ego" which is used by the human to make sense of his existence and the ego exists precisely because the player remains largely a silent observer - the human does not know that he/she is  actually a player with an entirely different existence - the human is born and other egos which were formed before it was born explain to it what it is and why it exists and thus the ego is shaped or reproduced by those egos already existing.


If the individual ego follows a path which has it questioning its existence, the things it has been taught by other egos etc...that ego has a better chance of connecting with that silent observer - the game player - and if that occurs then the game changes - not the whole game, but that egos part in the game.

In regard to your understanding of the 'ego' it appears you are coming from a common mis-representation of what it is Xanth and are also using the very same to argue that mis-interpretation.

I cannot assume for certain where you are coming from but in relation to this particular message board which has much to do with all things "Astral" I would likely be correct to assume that your experiences regarding Astral have helped bring you to some awareness to do with such things.

The 'Ego' itself is not a bad thing which needs to be cut out of the human experience.  Essentially it is that which is an identity to do with this experience – Life on Earth predominately but also to do with experiencing Astral Realms.

When you return from Astral you are here in this dominant reality and what you learn about your experiences can be transferred into this reality from that one, and indeed from this one to that one.  They are intimately interchangeable.

You are strongly suggesting that I am neglecting Love in speaking about the need to create paradise on this planet and equality for all – and the human potential to actualise this concept.

Part of that ability to conceptualise what you refer to as 'spiritual' is to bring that into this realm as the leading motivation – not the airy fairy new age type sellable production but genuine care and loving kindness INTO this realm.

I doubt that anything will prove 'spirituality' any better than actualising its potency INTO this realm.

THAT is 'living in consciousness and treating everybody with Love.' 

The 'you ' that can 'sit here and tell people this time and time again' is that ego which has not understood the situation enough to allow that activation to happen to that point necessary that it is the only focus you can genuinely have whilst experiencing this physical reality – to help make paradise a certainty here in this Universe on this planet.

The reason it is not, is because human beings are out of synch with this reality – this universe is truly One thing.  It is not 'chaos' or 'forces of destruction competing with forces of creation.' Or 'good verse evil' darkness verses light.

The Earth is the same.

To be in the physical and believe that 'it is not about the physical' is simply lying to Higher self and what is doing the lying?

Ah – ego?  Inherited belief system?  What are you in the physical for, if it isn't even about the physical?

Ego doesn't need to be destroyed – it needs to be cleansed from the Ancient and reborn in a sense focused upon what it is able to do in its physical experience which reflects the nature of 'spiritual' – who told you that the physical was not even relevant? 

I would question that source.

The type of 'spiritual growth' you speak of which denies the relevance of the physical universe is of no value.  There are any number of philosophies promoting such a message making profit IN THIS PHYSICAL PLANE – it is a lie.

That the voice of the 'spiritual' would say on one hand 'it is not about the physical' while promoting its wares for sale in the physical – that is not real bona fide 'spirituality' but something the Ancient ego thought up for its own slice of the action.

It has proved itself to be anything but the genuine thing.