Messages

quote:Originally posted by eomaia

Should a moderator belittle someone for unconventional spelling?

First off, I see nothing wrong with finding a little humor in everything I look at.  Call it whatever you want, his post made me laugh.

I still look forward to his reply though.   After seeing demons in his room AFTER he was awake, I am curious what they looked like.

quote:Originally posted by Crystalinity

Erm...
We kind of have to, you closed down the energy forums...
Does this mean we should now make posts concerning chi balls etc. here?

I would think that as long as your posts have to do with the development of the energy body (like chakra work, auras, strengthening your energy centers), then it's ok to post here.

However, to talk about certain techniques to make ki balls and other DBZ related topics, it will get deleted and it won't be tolerated.

This isn't something we're doing to tinkle people off.  It's just a collective decision amongst the administrators of this board in order to clean up a lot of rampant activity, the majority of which was coming from this particular forum.

If you have any other concerns, you can bring it up to one of us moderators.  Otherwise, I can probably help you find other sites which you can use to post things related to energetic balls.

[looking]

quote:Originally posted by bink
I get deeply relaxed to the point of sometimes dropping off to sleep and coming back, but I feel like there's some piece missing. I don't know where to "look" for the vibrations--it's like I'm searching for something to happen but I don't know what or where.

If I may make a suggestion, I don't believe people should be looking for the vibrations.  You don't need to look for them like one looking for car keys.  When people feel the vibrations, they usually become AWARE of them.  Much like you don't seek to be hungry during the day.  You just become aware that there is hunger there.

Simply looking for vibrations only draws more focus to your physical body and it keeps your mind waiting for something that seemingly never comes.  Then, you end up getting down on yourself, thinking that your attempts to project are failing.  Meanwhile, you may be right on the border of having an OBE, but your focus on the vibrations are keeping you back.

Gee, when I read your topic, 'Bad Newz About Life', I thought for sure it was going to be about your horrific grammar skills.  How relieved I am to hear that it's only a silly demon.  It's not a spelling demon, is it?  Those guys are nasty!

In all seriousness though, could you explain what these demons looked like?  Perhaps if you prayed to God instead of "prying" to him, these demons will leave you alone. []

Welcome Lickerish.  Looking forward to hearing more from you!

I'll try and answer your question as best as I know how.  First off, let me preface this by saying NO ONE knows ALL the answers.  With that said, I will give you my interpretation of things.

When thinking about the difference between the RTZ and the Astral Zone, think about it like an onion.  An onion is comprised of many different layers.  Each layer looks a lot like the preceding layer, but with little differences.  The further you go into the onion layers, the less likely they look like the outer layer.

The RTZ is nothing more than a projection into the "layer" closest to the physical realm.  Some people get all technical and say, "Ahem....well, the RTZ is an OBE in your etheric body, and an AP is an OBE in your astral body."

Well, I don't know much about the terminology when it comes to "which spiritual body I'm operating in at any given moment."  However, I can tell you that different projections feel different.  Sometimes, you feel heavy and other times you feel light.  Sometimes you have an incredible amount of control, and other times, you flop every which way like a fish out of water.

You ask if you can do "stuff" to people without them noticing in the RTZ.  The answer is yes.  There are many times when it seems like people can't see you, and then there are other times when they talk back and have no conscious memory of the convervation.

Gotta get back to work over here.....hope I helped you somewhat.

quote:Originally posted by Kundalini03

Yeah, I undertand this. I didn't mean I didn't want to researth or study AP I just don't want to read false information from the internet over and over. My mind is dead set on getting an OBE so I'm gonna check out that Astral Dynamics book. Do they have it at the local book store?

Yes, they should have that at most bookstores with a decent selection.  Especially places like Barnes and Noble, Borders, etc.

Also, look for "Journey's Out Of The Body" by Robert A. Monroe.  That is probably the single most influential book on my OBE experiences.

Darkquest....just wanted to let you know that I moved your topic from General Metaphysics to OBE Discussions, since I felt it was more appropriate here.  I hope you don't mind.

quote:Originally posted by fallnangel77

I think What Dreams May Come is a pretty good movie, but it is more about life after death. It still deals with what appears to be the astral. I think it is worth a watch if you have not seen it.

Great suggestion, fallnangel. That is the exact movie I would have mentioned, and it's one of my personal favorites.

Even though it deals with life after death, there is a lot of important lessons and techniques for moving around in a non-physical environment. I highly recommend anyone interested in OBE's to see this movie if you haven't already.

quote:Originally posted by Nagual
While I agree in a way, doing your own experiment will have more "value" for yourself.  There is a big difference between reading it in books and finding out on your own...

I agree with what you're saying.  I guess my point is this.  If I read a book on OBE's, and 99% of the things the author says can be verified through my own experiences, then I tend to believe that his laboratory results would match mine if I were to record a projection.

I think different people OBE for different reasons.  Some do it for the scientific factor.....wanting to prove to themselves and others the reality of astral projecting.  I think I was one of these people in the beginning.

However, the longer I continue on this journey, the more my goals change.  Now I don't feel the need to prove this to anyone, because I know it's real on a personal level.  If Robert Monroe, a scientific mind, recorded himself projecting under laboratory experiences, I tend to put a lot of faith in his results, since 99% of his other projections closely match my own.

quote:Originally posted by Tenacious

Jeff-  

I have to say, I'm extremely impressed with your coding.

Why thank you!

quote:How long have you coded?

I have been programming now for almost 4 years.  I got a job as a web designer for this company, and after designing their website, I expressed a desire to learn how to program.  Then I bought all the books and began to practice my butt off.

quote:Also what types of languages do you use?

I first programmed in C. Then I learned C#, and that is what I currently program in.  I can read a lot of programming languages (like VB, Perl, etc) but I wouldn't be able to design anything in them.

quote:I use to program, way back in h.s.  Those days are gone []  Thanks for making Our experiences more enjoyable with your logger!

You're welcome.  Glad you like it.  It's always been an excellent tool for me and my OBE progress, and I only hope others benefit the same from it.

quote:Originally posted by Kundalini03

I can't get an OBE without the use of DXM!! I hate it! I know its a practice thing but I don't feel like hopping from site to site reading repeatitive information. Can anyone suggest a good site that will tell me everything? All of you that are successful in achieving OBEs, what are your resources for learning how to get them? If you prefer you can email me at xsignsxofxchaosx@yahoo.com

Thanks a lot

First off, more important than techniques is having the right ATTITUDE.  You need the right mindset in order to have repetitive OBE's.

This is such an important step, and yet, many people are unconsciously aware that their attitude is working against them.  

Let's take you for example.  In just the first sentence of your post, you say you CAN'T have an OBE without the use of something else.  You're already reinforcing a negative mindset against your progress, because you think that there is no way to have one without DXM.

Second, while you recognize that it's a "practice thing," you also say that you "don't feel like" reading the same things over and over again.

Well, unfortunately, people say the same things over and over again because there are common techniques that work for most people.  The key is not to read some magical technique that'll blow your mind away.  The key is practicing the repetitive stuff so that you'll have an OBE, and THAT will blow your mind away.

All I can suggest is that you read all the suggested books (like Astral Dynamics, and the first one from Robert Monroe) just to keep the OBE Mentality permanently on your mind.  Read before you go to bed, and practice relaxation & quieting the mind everytime you lay down.

Be persistent, practice, and keep a positive attitude, because that is the perfect recipe for having an OBE!

quote:Originally posted by Adkha

When I extracted the file and tryed to open de journal.exe he gives an application error...?

That fix above is only for upgrades.  In other words, the extracted Journal.exe can't be run by itself.  It has to overwrite the existing Journal.exe on your system.

To be safe, you should just install the whole thing by clicking this link:  http://www.obejournal.com/Files/OBEJournal_1_00_01.zip

Using the OBE Journal, I see that most of my OBE's occur on my back (21%), while projecting from my right side comes in second at 17%.


http://www.obejournal.com/images/TempPosition.jpg

Since a lot of mine happen in the early hours of the morning and I don't write them down until I get out of bed later on, I usually forget exactly which position I was in.  Hence, the large percentage of "Unknown" on the graph.

Not to pump up the program anymore than I have, but as you can see from the screenshot, I could further narrow down the results, and check such things like, "What is the best position to OBE and have an astral enounter?"  Or "What position is best after a sexual release?"  etc.

Why do you have to re-invent the wheel?  Robert Monroe had projected many times under laboratory conditions.  You can read about them in all three of his books.

I agree with what Tisha said.  While anyone (yes, even you) can LEARN to have OBE's, some people have an easier time doing it.  

If a person is not really good at relaxation, or controlling their thoughts, this isn't to say that they can't have an OBE.  It'll just take them more of an effort to learn these things.

Just like a person like me would need a lot more effort to prove I can play in the NBA (I'm 5'10"), someone like Michael Jordon has a natural ability for the sport.

Believe me, if *I* can have an OBE, then anyone can!  It just takes patience, and a non-biased introspective look at yourself.  You need to know where you need work, and what changes to make to your mentality.

And lots and lots of practice!  I went from having no OBE's in my life to sometimes 2-3 a week.  While this may seem like an awesome "gift", I always remind myself of two important things:

1) It's not something given to me, but something I had to learn.

2) I still can't have these whenever I want.  I can only prepare myself for them, make the conditions as right as I can, and then hopefully I will have one.

A lot of it is trial and error.  You learn what works for you and what doesn't.

quote:Originally posted by Eric g

Seems like a nice programm.. too bad there's no Mac OSX version []

Sorry, my friend.  I have only tested and run this on a Windows OS.  I would like to support more platforms as time goes on.

I would imagine that once the .NET Framework is supported on MAC OS, the program itself wouldn't have to change.  It would just automatically run on your system.  Again, the problem is getting the existing Microsoft Framework to be ported to the MAC OS, which unfortunately, is out of my control.

quote:Originally posted by DarkQuest

hey i was just wonderin like if theres a way to actually have a RTZ projection and then somethin else for AP.  Like i mean how do you 'choose' between having a RTZ projection or AP.  do you have to project by getting in the same trance, is one easier than the other one, is there somethin extra you would have to do than the other?  cause even though im interested in AP  i am also interested with exploring the Real Time Zone just to see how it feels.  thanks

Luke, sometimes trying to target where you'll have an OBE is like trying to jump to the same depth level in a swimming pool.  The first jump, you may dive 3 feet in the water.  The second jump, you may sink to 3.2 feet in the water.  Everytime you jump, you'll always find yourself in the water, but not necessarilly in the same spot.

For me, almost all of my projections have seemed to be in the RTZ.  Although what is the RTZ?  My own interpretation is that the RTZ is like diving into the swimming pool, and floating just underneath the surface of the water.  You can see all the things above the water pretty clearly, but you know that it's just a reflection.

The more you turn your focus levels inwards, I believe, the deeper you dive (aka the further away you explore from the RTZ).

quote:Originally posted by DarkQuest

i got a question about the roll out thing and i didnt wanna create another topic for it.  so when people try to roll out do they try to roll out physically, mentally, or move physically (dunno how else to put it) so that your astral body pulls out and you are actually moving with your astral body

You know, I remember when I first started reading about OBE's, but never having one, I had the exact same question.

All I can say is that when I'm able to project, I just KNOW that I can.  I know that I will not be moving physically.

With that said, when you are in this separation state, you simply roll your body out, just as you roll your physical body out.

You see, many people ask, "How do I know that I will not move my physical instead of my astral body?"  Well, you have to look at it like this.  How many cars are in your family?

"HUH?  Jeff, What are you talking about?"

You see, in my family, I have two cars.  One is mine and one is my wife's.  Now, when I get in my car to drive to work, I can have 100% confidence that no matter how hard I push the gas pedal, my wife's car is not going to go anywhere.

It's kind of the same when you're in your astral body.  When you are at the separation phase, you FEEL your body, but the body you actually feel and think is physical is NOT.  So when you roll out, you FEEL and THINK you're rolling out of the physical, but you're not.

As I have said many times before, I usually have to purposely thrust my hand through a wall or the floor, just to convince myself that I am truly in the astral.  Otherwise, it feels like I really rolled out of bed.

The more you get used to it, the more you understand the mechanics behind it, and it'll become second nature to you.

Psygnus,

First off, CONGRATULATIONS!  There is nothing like having your first OBE.  I still get excited thinking about mine.

I also admire your determination.  You kept trying everyday, and even made sure you had the proper accomodations (like buying an airbed to increase your comfort level, etc).

Now to address your post!  You seem to be doing all the right things.  You will find that sometimes, not necessarilly all the time, the vibrations can be rough when you are separating.  From my own experience, this is due to a couple factors:

1) When I am more focused on the vibes instead of focusing away from my body

2) When I am not completely and utterly relaxed.  Imagine a piece of silk gliding over some objects on your desk.  It gracefully and easily moves over them.  Now imagine a sheet of plastic doing the same thing.  While it still is being pushed in a forward direction, it is not flexible (relaxed) like the silk, and it has a more bumpy ride.

You may also find that once you do get OUT of your body and the vibes calm down, there may be a strong pull to harness you back in.  Often times, when I get out, I literally have to CRAWL away, as if I am pushing against a current of liquid air.  Only when I get a good 10 feet away from the physical body am I able to stand up and not fight this current.

This doesn't happen all the time, mind you.  There have been times when I have stood next to myself laying in bed.  However, I think when a lot of energy has yet to transfer into your astral body, the pull by the physical is that much greater.

Now, regarding your minds eye....it certainly sounds like you were seeing through your closed eyelids, often called "astral sight."  You will find that this is a common side-effect when bordering on the edge of the physical and the astral.

When this happens again, and you're positive that it's astral site, then will the vibrations to flow over your body and have an OBE.

If, on the other hand, it's just your physical eyes barely open (which is really common when people are trying to relax), then this could be a distraction.  There are two things you can do to minimize your physical eyes opening.

1) Open them, and just stare at an object on the other side of the room.  The longer you are aware of that object, the heavier your eyes start to get.  It's OK to blink, but don't lose awareness of that object.  Your eyes will soon feel relieved to close, and you can proceed with your relaxation.

2) Imagine that whatever you see through the sliver of your vision as being an astral imagine.  Remain detached and don't analyze what you see.....just continue getting your mind in that right place and not worrying about the physical.

And by the way, since you're starting out, might I suggest you download a program I wrote to log and anaylyze your OBE experiences?  You can check it out here: http://www.obejournal.com

From your description, that certainly DOES sound like the start of a projection.  The next time this happens, try to simply "relax" and melt into them.

Most people fight them at the first onset of their presence, and this can be quite frightening to many novices.  However, you seem to be a good candidate for an OBE.  

When these vibrations come the next time, try to will yourself to roll out of your body and onto the floor next to you.  Let us know how it goes!

quote:Originally posted by Arie

Hmmm.......what exactly is a carriage return?

Carriage return is geek speak for the "enter key."

quote:
But anyways......If you want me to try to write in a more condensed fashion....i can do that.

You can write in whatever way you please.  

I just wondered if there was a point to writing each sentence on a new line.

As you can see, it stretches out the length of the post.

See?

Which can be really annoying to some people.

I may be one of them.

But seriously, you get the point of my original post.

quote:
But jeff...next time...you could add some insightful comments on WHAT i spent my time writing after or before your criticism on HOW i write...i mean c'mon....sheesh.....

I would've commented on WHAT you wrote about if I could understand it.  It made about as much sense to me as a nun in a whorehouse.  However, I don't fault you for not getting your point across to me.  My IQ seems to dip and shrink as the day goes on.

quote:
I think that's cool though that your at least trying to understand why  i write the way i do instead of just trying to flame me. Later

Well, as I mentioned, I was trying to keep an open mind and not come off as an a$$hole.  I'm glad you were able to see that.

I know I mentioned using carriage returns to start new paragraphs in Squeeks recent post, but having one after each sentence?  Um....I don't mean to sound like a stickler, but what is the point of writing that way?  

Seriously, Arie, could you explain this one to me?  Would you say that each individual sentence is a point that you're trying to emphasize?  Or this this just a style of writing that you feel comfortable with?  I'd really like to know.

I definitely wouldn't condone using a sexual desire to project.  And here is why:

1) First off, I have tried this, and unless I'm just a weak-minded individual, everytime I have tried to use sexual drives to help me OBE has always resulted in me getting friggin' hornier than hell during my relaxation process!  This, in turn, causes me to lose all forms of concentration, and I end up having to....ahem....relieve myself before going back to bed.

2) Even if I was able to project using sexual desire as a motivation, I would soon find myself in the astral with an enormous sexual desire.  And I don't know about the rest of you, but I have had more OBE's cut short because of this distracting desire than OBE's which were memorable.

3) On a side note, I did have one OBE where I actually looked down into my astral pants and saw my astral penis.  I purposely wanted to see if I still had it "on the other side" and to my relief, I did!  I probably would have flipped out if I peeked in my pants and saw that I was built like a Ken doll.

quote:Originally posted by adsalamon

then again its was just a cramp ot summit.. then again argh!

Put it this way, if you mistake them for a cramp, then it wasn't the "vibrations" that you're looking for.

In fact, I'll take it one step further.  If you are looking at every slight change your body goes through during your relaxation, you will NEVER get the vibrations.

Why?  Because they actually come when you stop fixating on the body and turn your focus away from it.