Messages

So that means "he" is not god.

The "you need to have faith without seeking proof" doesn't make much sense to me, it sounds like what a religion wanting control masses would say.

If god existed and talked through 55 pages on a forum he wouldn't mind to answer a simple question like the one i asked.

You know what I am just gonna give it a shot. Normally I would ignore posts like your but you do sound quite sincere so I will try to explain what I said above without cracking jokes.

Its like this.

I fully understand that you have doubts whether I am really channeling God or something else or my own thoughts or whatever. In other words....you do not believe. That's OK of cause, however it appears that I am not able to get anything that will suffice as proof for you.....not ever because your issue is not proof but disbelief. !!!!!! think about that a bit.

Faith in something is sort of a drawing power......like faith in the force in that movie you know. The Jedis were taught but what did they teach them?.....I think that they taught them to believe that they had those powers. It seems that their powers were dormant largely due to their own disbelief in them. (I don't believe I can lift this rock=I wont try=I did not lift it)

So taking that principle to the thread if you do not believe or even just want to believe, it seems that I am not able to "get" anything for you. God as I know him is not in show business as such and it seems he hides himself from people who rely too much on their brain their reasoning or whatever you call it,  and choose to instead appear to those of childlike faith.

This may not be to your liking and possibly you will reject it, but that's OK. We all learn as we go. In any case that was what I was trying to explain. If God was very concerned with you believing in him I am sure he would be quite able to convince you, being the ultimate power....right. It seems he is just leaving mysterious little hints along the path of your life to make you think.......maybe pray and even talk to him. He is perfectly able to answer you. Someplace it talks of how god speaks.

It says:

And you shall hear a still small voice beside you saying this is the way walk in it.

God was not in the thunder or lightening but in a still small voice. The enigma of life the most power full being of all talks in a whisper, the ultimate ruler is born a poor person, and the most unlikely group of people are chosen as representatives of God, the foolish the poor and the simple. Selah

By the way Selah is Hebrew and I believe it means Think. Beth would know.

Regards Mustardseed

Yes you are right it is certainly far from an exact science. Some people prefer it that way but it is not. There is a very surprising part of the thread that talks about that. Not only misinformation but what about people making traps for me (in this case), and who give only half information etc.

Channeling, or Prophesy as Christians call it, is very mysterious, and it appears that it is a mixture of me having the faith to ask and expect an answer to something, and you being open to express your honest questions, having the willingness to consider the answer as from God, and then naturally the God factor.

If any of these are missing the answer will more often than not, be colored. Heavy emotion can sometimes color it as well, anger resentment and the more neg related problems especially. It appears to be a bit like a remote healing of sorts, where the actual healing is a spiritual thing instead and ideas instead of physical healing is implanted in your mind making it possible for you to self heal by relating to God on a personal level.

People seem to often misunderstand this. They ask questions about lotto numbers, something I don't have the faith to ask, or they ask in a spirit of disbelief something that it seems God cannot answer. They often seem to want proof and this messes up the channel. The Bible is pretty clear it says that

"he who comes to God must believe that he is and that he is a re-warder of those who diligently seek Him"

Faith in Him draws his Spirit. Apparently anything less than a childlike faith "garbles" the signal so to speak. These are some of the things that "God" explained somewhere on the thread, and they seem like very good and plausible points to me.

In any case it seems that God is doing it this way to encourage people to talk to him in sincerity. Not so they can get lotto numbers etc but so he can pour down his love on their lives. It seems that he works like a vacuum and if people open up their spirits like that He will answer somehow, tailor made to each individual.

I am just recapping some of the thread and what the Channeling's seem to indicate. Hope it answers your questions or at least some of them.

Regards Mustardseed

Channeling God

Hi there

would that be me

yea ...sorry just trying to be fresh

ha ......I saw that

saw what

he got to you

who....what

don't do this.......you know very well

OK so he did.....so what......whats it to you

I just find it interesting

Whats so interesting

Ha......interesting is when you are tempted to be a hypocrite.....that's interesting

Cant I hide anything from you
'
nope

OK so he got a few things right so what

not a few things ...be honest and tell it as it is.......we are listening

...............

...............


...................


come on you can do it.....humble yourself

OK.....yea so that thing he said well it just well it was pretty right on. In the little post above I saw some things that no one but me knew. I think he researched me a lot on the pulse but still........maybe its a trick

could be

well you should know ......so is it

I ain't tellin' figure it out

but I don't know what to think, I guess I am a bit on the defense

good....you are getting it....so how does it feel to have someone mess with you,

its a bit......irritating or whatever

yea ...isn't it, good lesson ....so lets get on with things...I gotta go c ya

bye c ya too.....I guess

Mustard seed? why are you chosen to speak to god and answer the questions. If we ask a question that you can not answer simply an answer similar to do not test my existence shall arise. I do not see the point with people trying to have fun with your (from what I see) confused mind. At that I would say to have a full understanding and knowledge of god would be to understand PIE and its concepts,numbers,theory,and to fully understand that solving the question of god would be incapable of the human mind for the circles traveled would be endless and in understanding god would be understanding your very existence where as you could quite possibly fall out of existence because if your mind is as powerful to understand god our dimensions would not be able to hold you to this dimension. sigh....oh well

I guess its another vacuum cleaner moment.    I think you misunderstand  the whole thing but I am OK with that. In my concept God is very personal, he is my God as he is yours. I talk to him.....big deal, I just have taken it a bit further than most....I actually believe he answers me. Ha He is not understanding numbers endless mysteries etc not to my understanding....he is love, and he.....loves us, jokes with us winks at us as a real good friend a mate a lover parent or whatever you relate to. Your very best friend. I still find it amusing that so many people get so miffed and upset that I talk to God and ask him about stuff......its as if they get jealous, and absolutely must prove me wrong .....some obsess over it and become very unfriendly and ......well ha anyway I am just having fun. Call me confused silly stupid or megalomaniacs I am OK with that . My suggestion would be to calm down crack a joke lighten up and enjoy the thread and the pulse and your life.

Regards Mustardseed

Hey god, if you are so powerful and all-knowing tell me what i was holding in my left hand as i wrote this post? (i used just the right hand to write)

Not so smart now are we?

No need for God to answer that one , I can see it from the ecstatic look in your eyes , ha well don't worry God told me its not a sin, and I won't tell anyone.

About the not so smart now are we, I really have no idea how smart you two are. I heard people giving it names but talking in terms of we and admitting to not being so smart sort of takes the cake.....well lets at least say that's unusual. I heard somewhere that men have been given 2 heads but only blood enough for one at a time.....sounds just about right, unless you are a girl. ha in that case I will get real serious and ask God....truly I will .....Nice talking to ya'

Channeling God

Is that right God, are you not happy about his complaining

Ha well you know what his complaining I can handle but his mocking really ticks me off. By the way I would rather talk to him , is that OK with you

sure be my guest

OK.....well Telos my friend lets chat, before you get all wound up and aggressive try to calm down and use your mind. I have given you a good mind and you know it....don't you. This thread is not intended to poke at you or anyone ...it really isn't .....can you believe that? Its just someones conversation with ME, that's all..... ME as he sees me and as he understands me. It is a honest display of someones emotional life and connection with his GOD. No attack on anyone not you not anyone, he just writes what I tell him. No deletions no planning no preconceived ideas. Isn't that exiting to you ? What if.......Yes....what if my friend?. Think about it .........just consider the possibility and if nothing else live and let live my friend, if this thread is really me speaking you cannot mock me stamp me out or anything and, if it is just the thoughts and mischievous ideas of a crooked individual it will sink into oblivion, in any case be careful that you are not found to mock me......GOD

OK well that was a lot

had some to say

OK well can I go to bed now?

sure......sweet dreams.....I love you

yup I know nightie night

Over around above beyond. I see it often
Regards MS

Its called the Halloween wheel, it is what people used to portray a halo in ancient drawings and medieval pictures. We all have one.
Regards Mustardseed

[Channeling God]

Channeling God

Ok God, they are making fun of me shall I start Channeling again

That all depends on......some are actually interested in what I say but won't admit it

But some get real mad, and they are making fun

ha yea well come to the club, they have been making fun of me for a lot longer than you

Guess so OK we will see

OK.......relax and take a deep breath.....and smile

It does make sense to a degree that people who pour a lot of time and energy into some one or some situation, is to be somehow benefiting mutually. There seem to be however a difference between people who "charge" others for answers to life and death questions, in such case I do see it as a commercializing of spiritual gifts.

I think it is easy for some of us to accept this, maybe too easy, as it is somewhat mirrored in the commercial society in which we live, where doctors and hospitals charge for services. It just seems to be the way the world is developing, but it is in my opinion not the right way. I accept it as a necessary evil in a way, but to let people die or suffer either physically or spiritually, if they are not able to pay for the medicine or spiritual council is IMHO intrinsically WRONG. (Capitalized for emphasis).

Its just a fine balance. I understand people paying for cosmetic operation, and long time spiritual counseling and training, but I would say that any teacher who has a cold hearted "pay first" attitude is in need of some enlightening himself. Being somewhat influenced by Christianity, the famous words "Freely give cause freely you have received" comes to mind. In other instances people tried to buy the Holy ghost etc This is not to judge anyone as every situation should be judged on their individual merits and I understand lots of charities and so forth accept donations, but a degree of volunteer giving is sometimes in order.

Maybe one could argue that spending lots of time posting here as I know some do is equal to the "emergency room", yet further and maybe deeper counsel in the form of books will have to be packaged and sent and will naturally cost some. That would be fair and square. I guess I am a bit in 2 minds about this......ha That's what a Libra rising will do for you.

Just 10 cents worth

Well Tom I have my own opinion of why, and I guess you all do as well. It is not so unusual in a strictly controlled environment for opposing ideas or questions and the ones asking them to suffer such a consequence. You might say that the AP is not a controlled environment but I beg to differ. Ideas are real things Tom and just like in any political party business or group be it a Church synagogue Mosk or otherwise, anyone seen as challenging the accepted ideas of the majority often becomes the focus of a lot of negativity. Everyone wants to be on the inside, and part of the fellowship, and ones loyalty or adherence to the accepted norm leadership or ideology is often boosted by taking potshots at the common "enemy" or antagonist.

I think it is a very effective way to form neg attachments. Gossip in secret, PMs in this case, are one of the ways people communicate. It seems that it is human nature, and the pride of man, in any case it becomes increasingly harder to be in opposition to the accepted norm, and eventually people either apologize and are let back in the circle or they keep on with what they do and are frozen out.

It is a very interesting way that some people are able to control a group of people and sort of freeze the status quo, and the funny thing is that people don't even see it happening, as they are so elated being with the in crowd, and relish socking it to the offending party, receiving pats on the back from all their "friends".

Basically I questioned Phasing as an explational model for life, postulating its merit was mainly in the actual tecnik, but it has severe gaps and contradictions and seems lacking for anything else. For this I received a series of very condescending posts and as I rose to the Bait (silly me) I was finally put outside the door, after receiving a PM from Frank telling me not to ask him any further questions. He considers me a trouble maker and a troll.  as do most of the moderators by now......wonder why!!!!

I know that your question was rhetorical but this is what I think happened anyway.

Regards Mustardseed

Yea I guess you are right Nay. It seems that I am being "Frozen out and silenced to death" ha. It appears that you all are fed up with my questions, and since you are the ones running the pulse I am history, and I suppose you all say good riddance of bad rubbish.

I can live with that but as I said earlier it used to be a much more open and congenial environment.

Regards MS

Very good point. I am not sure what to think. I also have been somewhat turned off by people who do workshops for 1000s of dollars write books to sell etc but then again that's what they do. I guess when all comes to all it is their life and their conscience have to be their guide. It is my faith that freely you have received freely give, but it is a personal faith, and not something I would ask anyone to adhere to. As I said somewhere else I somehow wonder how it will look on their "karmic resume", giving that all they are trying to sell was given to them for free., but I guess when all comes to all we should not judge each other.

Regards Mustardseed

And there it is

Dear Nay
No not passive aggressive nor bored, I am however interested in this issue as it is one of the reasons I asked in the other threads. How do we say to people that this is only created in their mind, and not real per se, where does it "fit" and as Adrian and Frank seem to have some interesting ideas what would they counsel Silent Shadow to do That's all. I find it both relevant and proactive. A bit frustrated and I could do better on presenting my point without irony, sorry about that. I guess I am just "worried" I will be met with aggression .

Regards Mustardseed

Well I wish you would all join the talk in the forum pertaining to phasing. There are a few folks there who believes that its all in your mind and all you have to do is to ignore these things and they will vanish.

It would be interesting to discuss this with you

Regards Mustardseed

we both know that's not true, you are reading this right now ain't you.......................... GOTCHA Mr wizard....remember .....have a little laugh at yourself now and then. We all do so join the fun!!!

In my view, MS is going through what I call a 'belief system crash' when he finds all his old beliefs under attack, seemingly from the outside but also and more importantly, from the inside... this can be a traumatic time and a time of denial. I know, this has happened to me in the past. So let me try to understand you here you say that I am denial, because I do not understand nor right off the bat embrace Phasing as a explanational model, I am traumatized by my ..... ehh mind, in other words I really do believe you inside but will not let my self admit to it. This is psycho babble my friend . It is nonsense and besides how do you expect to be taken serious if  you attempt to assassinate peoples characer if they do not submit to your superior wisdom.....get a grip my friend
Just a possibility. Maybe in your world, not in mine
Also, you only seem to be taking a surface approach with phasing as a model, which is quite irritating. Ha so is that it I irritate you......Have you ever looked at it in depth? Naturally I have my friend. This is my contention that phasing is a shallow way of understanding the astral experience, and a deeper approach is needed. Have you read my posts at all
One of the more obvious things that people realize once they get a bit of experience Once they get a bit of experience....oh mighty wizard, come on Doug what is that if not condescending, I ave plenty of experience. You guys keep on talking to me and everyone else as if you are the only ones who have experiences again....get a grip.with the astral is, what you believe becomes your reality. However, it is not as simple as surface level wish fulfillment. Who talks about surface wish, that is your assumption, you have not got the foggiest idea of what I am how my life is lived my reality or anything about me, yet you judge my experience and inferior because I have not arrived at your own conclusion and my wishes as surface and shallow for the same reason. Sometimes these are things on a subconscious level which you may not be comfortable on a 'surface' level.. DUH again Doug come on I am fully aware of the creations of the subconscious.....silly boy....stop it   so the idea that its a simple case of wishing for angels and then wondering why you don't see any, is very simplistic. The mind is a very complicated thing. You don't tell me..really You seem unwilling to put any thought into this however, i believe, because you are worried about your beliefs are undermined. Well all I can say is that you have no idea of what I think

Why are you so concerned? Let me ask you just so I understand Are you asking why I am so concerned with the reality of life, why we have OBEs and how they come about and why
I am comfortable with what i know of the phasing model so far, esp. as its a model not the reality. You seem to be unwilling to recognize this and make claims for phasing which it does not claim to have. What's more, the phasing model has been very useful in my own explorations and confirmed many of my own personal experiences. I find it superior to older models and religions which are inferior, in my view as they put so little emphasis on personal experience and so much on taking someone elses word for it. THAT is why i feel phasing model is better, as it only claims to be a guide, and whats more it is constantly changing and updating as new knowledge and explorations become available.. what religion does that? I did not realize we were in this to pick a religion that fulfilled our needs the best nor to become adherents to some way of thinking because it claims to have all the answers. Is that why you adhere to it because it is the most "comfortable" and through it you have a nice box to fit everything into?

However, you can do what you like. Thanks But as phasing is the latest, and in the view of many experienced projectors here, the best astral exploration method and model out there, it is appropriate to promote it here. No problem with it at all as a explorational model I use it myself, My beef is with it as a explational model to spiritual realities, spirits, the afterlife spiritual phenomena etcFurthermore, nobody has a monopoly on 'phasing'. Sure people can write books about it to provide pointers, which is what is happening here and as these people have loads of projecting experience, i think this is great. But you don't have to buy them.. these people provide plenty of help here for nothing and have done so for years.. and there is plenty of info on the web already ..you can begin you explorations right now.. and rely on nobody.

Do what you like... please

Thanks Doug I will naturally I wish you all the best as well. I found no real answers to my questions in this thread so I will not bother you anymore. I did however find plenty of you, ha All I saw was a couple of young and to my understanding very un experienced people, taking on the air of experts, throwing around terms and rather grandiose claims. I have been trying to be nice but honestly after all I have seen of you, your cutting sarcasm, vicious criticism and proud approach I have decided to maybe look else where for information.....as they say the truth is out there. This will most likely thrill you I am sure and most likely many others with you. I find it so incredibly funny that you Doug just a young student who chooses a wizard with a pointed hat as an avatar really believe that you are in a position to expound at such length on reality. Besides that you and Ben seem to have no sense of humor.......but who knows maybe some day I will, as Ben said in that earlier post, come to understand the fallacy of the notion that we rotate around the sun, I guess when you really have that much ego the sun moon and stars most certainly rotate around you.

Regards Mustardseed

[I like to use the old "earth and sun" metaphor that i read. Way back in the day, people saw the sun coming up in the east and then setting in the west. naturally, they presumed that WE must be revolving around the sun. Now we know that its just an erroneous perspective. While it sure SEEMED like we were going around the sun, it was actually the other way around.]

Dear Ben

Someone just brought this to my attention. I guess I was as busy as were you. Now this is good fun, this is hilarious and thanks to you I think I am going to have a really good day, steadfast in the faith that there is nothing to fear. The universe planets and stars are safe things are rotating according to their own plan no matter what you or I think say or believe. This is a quote from your post to me earlier on you said....

I like to use the old "earth and sun" metaphor that i read. Way back in the day, people saw the sun coming up in the east and then setting in the west. naturally, they presumed that WE must be revolving around the sun. Now we know that its just an erroneous perspective. While it sure SEEMED like we were going around the sun, it was actually the other way around.

We know nothing Ben, we assume we guess we try to grasp and yet we know nothing. Not me not you......but we are funny especially when we are trying so hard. Ha take a good laugh at yourself and join the club we are the funniest things ever made.

Regards Mustardseed

Have you ever had an NDE? Yes I have Are you talking about the physical? Yes I am What is this about "shape shifters"? are these in the physical or another area of consciousness?They appear to be some sort of astral wildlife, lower category spirit beings, sometimes they may be your own creations, ask around

What makes you think that just because you would like to see angels you will see them? Your post above did that beliefs run further than simple desires- you don't consciously dictate your beliefs. you can change them objectively sure- but this is just an objectification of a deeper subjective change I'm sure. ummmmm huh

When/how did you experience demons in the physical world? Come on Ben take a deep breath You realize that claiming this makes you a)the first person in recorded history to see demons on earth or b)crazy.You know Ben you are jumping to a lot of conclusions. I have been working for a good many years with possessed people, in countries where this thing occur, and have been helping folks that way, talking to demons. Nothing so special about that, do a bit of research

if you tell me that you are A, i laugh and tell you to get medicine. Schizophrenia is a tricky thing to deal with. Well In my opinion sarcasm and pride tend to be pretty bad as well

Haven't learned about metaphors in English class yet? Why the biting irony Ben sorry about that. Since you obviously aren't educated enough to understand my metaphor,Ha so sweet i will explain it further. My metaphors point was that things are not as they seem. There is no way for you to prove that we are "in" our bodies just as much as there was no way for a person to prove that the sun revolved around us. Soon enough this WILL be discovered, Ohhh I see so soon it will be discovered. Since when did you have the ability to see into the future my friend, this is an assumption a guess and that's all your metaphor which I call allegory due to the fact that I am not a native English speaker is used in a very wrong way. You use your metaphor to back up an argument. It does not work like that . I could add many metaphors to explain the opposite, instead of fiction try facts or any other way. Or be honest and admit that you really have no idea but are guessing. Then we could just compare notes and guess together, "I think this what do you think well how about that wow never thought about it interesting etc " but saying  ..........."Soon enough this WILL be discovered" is silly and nothing but a guess you don't know that do you?

Hard evidence? On the contrary, science is discovering more and more each day about this. We are now to the point that we know how stimuli is filtered through the body into the brain. Here read this: sorry Ben .....no time no interest I skimmed through it that's all I had energy for. Instead Ben relax as I said take a deep breath stop being so angry and sarcastic, and lets just chat as friends, I have no beef with you, I appreciate you have a faith in this but I do so far not share it.....big deal. I am curious but not so easily swayed by your arguments. They are more like scolding .....feels like the fundamentalists in church come to think about it...wonder why that is
Regards Mustardseed

[

Well that is at least the claim, however it does not match my reality. I would say I am very motivated to see Angels, and if anyone should see them I should. I never did. I have encountered the odd shape shifter, and clearly identified it based of the feel and was easily able to dismiss it.

I have not encountered demons in the astral, but in physical life. Had loads of experiences that went totally against what  expected. Being a Christian I should see heaven, angels, departed people, etc etc only on a few occasions did  I see stuff like this but still never what I expected, so I would say that the usual model that you quote did not seem to be true for me.

How do you explain that.

The whole very quaint little allegory of the sun is basically silly and proves nothing. It is merely a explational trick, but in reality leaving the body or not has nothing to do with the sun and the earth. I could pick any of 1000 cute stories to bolster my adherence, so lets stick with the fact here not allegorical explanations.

The statement that we are not in our body in the first place, I find absurd, it is also a mere mind game, based on no logic, but catch phrases, and pocket philosophy. I would say that there is pretty good hard evidence that we are a spirits inhabiting a shell, body or whatever you choose to call it.

All in all your arguments are not very convincing but seem too far fetched and not based on anything but your word. Kindly explain yourself better.

Regards Mustardseed

Hi Doug
Thanks. Yea actually that's what I am going to do, I will try to do what I have to do. Your reply however saddens me. It seems that you and Frank are not either willing or capable of discussing things that go against your belief systems in a kind and unbiased way. I wonder why that is so.? My reply to  you was detailed yet you answer in a sort of cold "whatever " attitude, indicating you are not willing to discuss your conclusions.

That is a very effective way of silencing the opposition, in politics its called "stonewalling".

For a long time I have listened to you Doug, a long time. I have accepted that it was indeed possible you possessed information about religious studies and stuff that I did not have. I respected you for that and yielded to what I hoped was a better source of accurate information. I did not always like it and sometimes your ways rubbed me the wrong way, I felt at times you came across a bit arrogant, but hey!!!! you were right in what was discussed and so I made the decision to ignore your manners because you had valid points to bring to the table.

Now its a bit reversed, I have a few life experiences that I believe are of importance and worth yet you basically cut me off and say "whatever", ................why is that Doug. Are you so sure you know how it all works that you are not interested in this conversation?. Did I offend you by mentioning the fact that I felt you were a bit proud,? or are you investing so much faith in Phasing that you do not dare to see its validity challenged in public?.

Are you honest with yourself or is your mind made up.

Regards Mustardseed

[Once again, I have to point out that nowhere does the phasing model say that 'negs' are not real. Rather, it is quite clear that anything you create is real. The issue is not whether 'negs' are real, they are real for the people experiencing them. The issue is to understand what causes 'neg' experiences and what makes 'negs' real.Once you do a bit of exploring of the astral reality and gain a bit of experience of how it ticks, it becomes pretty clear, at least to me, how 'neg' type experiences occur. Armed with this, you can begin to combat the problem. In fact, it is possible to completely bypass the sticking point completely. Once again, there is nothing that you create that is not real. You just need to get an idea of what is going on to fuel these 'neg experiences'. Of course, its up to you what you do, but give it a try, you might find that by examining the way in which the 'thought = action' process works, you might save a lot of time in your 'neg battles'.]

Doug said..................

Once again, I have to point out that nowhere does the phasing model say that 'negs' are not real. Rather, it is quite clear that anything you create is real.

The issue is not whether 'negs' are real, they are real for the people experiencing them. The issue is to understand what causes 'neg' experiences and what makes 'negs' real.

Once you do a bit of exploring of the astral reality and gain a bit of experience of how it ticks, it becomes pretty clear, at least to me, how 'neg' type experiences occur. Armed with this, you can begin to combat the problem. In fact, it is possible to completely bypass the sticking point completely. Once again, there is nothing that you create that is not real. You just need to get an idea of what is going on to fuel these 'neg experiences'.

Of course, its up to you what you do, but give it a try, you might find that by examining the way in which the 'thought = action' process works, you might save a lot of time in your 'neg battles'.


Dear Doug
If you don't mind me saying it, it is this very patronizing attitude that I find so silly. It seems you are setting yourself up as some sort of expert in this field, asking me to "give it a try......etc" You talk as if you are lecturing a person who has just encountered a neg problem maybe someone your own age and experience or younger. What I was trying to say seems to not register with you!!.

My point is that I HAVE tried Doug, I have had loads of OBEs and other life experiences, and certainly have met the type of neg you talk about, my own fear in some shape, maybe even someone elses fear, and I agree in the astral these things take on a life on their own. What I was talking about is not this issue, I am talking about the Reality of Negs that was here before any of us maybe for 1000 of years and who's origin is unknown.

I find it almost humorous that you keep talking about us "gaining experience", as does Frank, "try this out try that see for yourself etc". I was in a nice way trying to explain to you that, given the fact that I am most likely twice your age and have been spiritually active for a long time, I have seen and experienced aspects of life you have not nor possibly ever will. You need to get of the self proclaimed experts chair Doug and understand that there are people around that know infinitely more about life spiritual truths etc than you do.

I find it interesting that this point seem to escape you and can only at this time attribute it to an slightly enlarged ego. That is understandable, and not offensive to me, its not a problem forign to me   , you are still young, but do us all a favor and come down from the pedestal that you have placed yourself on, honestly you sound very much like some of the Mystics you condemn so much. That's what I was trying to say lets ask questions compare notes and reason together, as equals and not as teacher/pupil.

Regards Mustardseed[/quote]

Yea I guess I have been around the block however I do not believe it has made me build walls. I have had OBEs all my life since childhood, spent many years trying to make them stop, to no avail, so I have learned to live with them. I am one of the unfortunate few who does not have to fight to have one but fight against having them too often. What irony.

For a good many years I have worked as an Missionary/Exorcist, I and worked for the best part of 15 years in India and Nepal, so people believe me. I don't buy into the head stuff, these things are real, negs exist, and no amount of pretending they don't are going to make them go away.

That is why I would be so pleased to discuss this with "the man", but it seems he is busy, so let it be. It does not seem that Frank want this exchange of information. If he does respond I would hope that this would not degenerate to become somewhat a exchange of rhetoric's, but a honest exchange of experiences.

What I desire is that we all sit down together Adrian Frank Robert whoever (all of you guys) and compare notes. No one is the enemy no one the adversary, all just friends trying to find the way through, lets compare notes in respect with kindness and may our motive be to learn and help the one who by chance will pass the way we have all ready gone, and may we be a blessing, one to another.

No ego no pride no right wrong or "I told you so". I would be ready for that conversation, to learn from you, would you be ready to learn from me and everyone else who might join in as well????Or do you all ready have all the answers?? Those who know me will know what is in my heart. All I desire is to be a help to someone, that's all.

Regards Mustardseed

Ha what a world, here I try to elevate the conversation to higher levels. as advised by the moderators and all folks wanna hear about is smoking poison.

Ok here goes.

Find a snake, cobra is best but I imagine your local diamond back will do nicely  milk the poison without getting hurt, this is where most folks drop off. Smoke it by the drop laced on a pipe of tobacco. Ha

Hey its POISON PEOPLE, it will kill your nervous system, actually destroy your brain cell and do unspoken damage to your liver kidneys and balance nerves. Beats sniffing glue 1 to 1000 in a weird high of senseless babble, and the effects are not reversible, you will die from this.

Instead why not get a bottle of whiskey and drink it in a couple of swigs, the high is comparable but I somehow imagine the damaging effects may be less, but then again I might be wrong.

Honestly stay away from even thinking about it. Maybe I should delete that part, hmm .....think think think.

Nah If you are that stupid you will die soon eventually

Regards Mustardseed