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At the risk of sounding maudlin, how about sustainability for our species.  Maybe a minimum standard of living for all citizens?

Noble aspirations indeed. If you can figure out how to do this feel free to implement these to the best of your ability, Mother Theresa style! 

But the moment you force me to participate in your dream against my will you become the TYRANT. And if you take what is mine against my will to pay for your pipe dream, you are a thief. Not only do your actions become criminal but I believe they violate Spiritual Law (as I understand it, free will, personal space, etc).

How would you like it if I took what is yours and even forced you to work in a uranium mine in order to make progress on my anti-gravity machine? It would be so wonderful for humanity! Finally!! Anti-gravity!!! yaaaayyy! If you were a decent human you would do this for all humanity. 

i'm done with this now, because i know that you're just going to retort with a tone of competition, trying to prove that you are in the right.  i just wish that you would get that i'm not attacking you, i'm not saying that you're wrong about anything.

I do not have to 'prove' that I am right -- your error is obvious on the surface... for anyone over 50. The brainwashing of the younger folks has been incredibly effective. This "maybe your truth isn't my truth" nonsense is so thoroughly beaten into otherwise intelligent people... it is a sight to behold.

I know and fully understand that you are not attacking me. You are only trying to insist on your indoctrination in order to avoid the dreaded "conflict".

"this method is the best" you are making a subjective statement based on personal experience.  opinion."

Wrong.    Firstly, we are talking about the claim of "1000 times better" which is very different. Injecting a superlative is another common trick I see in forum discussions. Yet, it is very possible to make "an observation" based on personal experience that is simply false. (by defining the scenario as a "subjective statement" defines it as opinion outright which is like saying if someone gives an opinion it is just an opinion... duh). Say I am looking at three ice cream cones lined up on a table and a short person at table level looks and sees only the closest one and reports that there is one ice cream cone on the table, he is wrong. It is not just a matter of opinion. If he says, "I see one ice cream cone on the table" he is giving an accurate report. Again, it is NOT just an opinion but a fact, and accurate when properly qualified.

I can recommend several good books that may help you but try this one;

In Fifty Years We'll All Be Chicks: . . . And Other Complaints from an Angry Middle-Aged White Guy [Paperback]
Adam Carolla (Author)

I eventually found a house in the country... where I live now and that makes life a lot more peaceful. I still experience the phantom phenomena when I go out though... people around me will be having conversations about the exact same thing that I'm thinking about. So so so strange. There was a time when I was desperate to understand why this was happening to me.

This is an interesting story you tell. I solved the "people problems" in apartment buildings in a similar manner. I finally just rented a room in a house with only the landlord/owner sharing. Neither of us did drugs or drank much and we spent most of our time staying out of each other's way. The worst thing was when he would eat my food and even eat most of my eggs and maybe leave one (1) ! in the carton for me to enjoy on Sunday morning... thanks pal....
The one part about the apartment life that I missed was those lazy afternoons by the pool on hot summer weekends.

I think it is good the way you are self observing during the day. One powerful technique taught in some Schools is to take FULL responsibility for ALL that occurs in your universe. This is easy when good things happen but can be a challenge when bad things happen. Searching for and finding when, where and how the seeds were planted can be nearly impossible at times. But pursue this vigorously and incredible Growth of an Eternal nature can begin.

 

I am not the one who claimed a method was "a thousand times better" than any other method.

Plus your claim, "you can't say that anything is superior to anything else without also admitting that it is purely your opinion and nothing else" is simply not true. Not even close. People make those sorts of claims on a fairly regular basis and rarely include statistics. (Though "a thousand times better" might qualify as a weak attempt at statistics;). In fact, in my experience outside of scientific circles the stats behind a claim are routinely left out until a challenge is extended.

I quoted the statement and it looked like a straightforward claim that a thing was thus and so. No opinion level qualifiers were included. I saw no "personal opinion" implied on any real and recognizable level, not in context nor implied. You are free to make that assumption if you wish but people make false assumptions on a regular basis too. 

Why doesn't someone break that Randi price..?

From what I read, Randi places so many ridiculous restrictions on the test and takes total control of the entire experiment and does not allow for dry runs or warm-ups or second chances. It is his way or nothing. You get one shot and if you fail that time he has the rights to present the failure publicly in his own narrow minded venue.

Few people will take that risk. Even the best OBEers have a bad day now and then.

Weren't sleeping pills involved in these cases?  Ambien, I think.

I heard that too. And how some people who abruptly stop taking Prozac -- they go into a homicidal rage in the middle of a night's sleep and kill the first person within reach... usually a spouse.

Rudy, you constantly neglect and understanding of what perception is.  The external stimuli may be objective and concrete, but the interpretation I'd that data is ALWAYS subjective.  Even if you list the name of the founder of a technique doesn't make it objectively superior for the simple fact that the way a person perceives that method is unique.  You're way too black and white.

How so? In fact, I understand completely what perception is. I had to deal with it on a daily basis throughout my career.
I did not claim that listing the name of the founder of a technique makes it objectively superior. Please reply to what I actually said. I was replying to the claim of a "thousand times better" which reasonable folks ought to agree constitutes a claim to superiority.

Not only is the body of light method not nearly as good as described by Selea but for the vast majority of folks that I have known in magickal circles... it does not work at all. I suppose the rare few Crowley, Regardie, L. M. Duquette types it may work well, but for most people, not so much.

It's also going to be the downfall of our civilization.

The deep denial and unbridled pessimism of the marxist-socialist crowd is a sight to behold. Civilization has grown and expanded in accord with the degree of free market capitalism extant.

What I said is an observable fact. Free market Capitalism and the Central Banking system did more to increase the wealth of the common man than any other system in the history of mankind.

The fear based doomsaying of the socialists is based on nothing but philosophical ruminations of the way things "should" be. Free Market Capitalists maturely accept what simply is and proceed to deal with reality.

Socialism must be enforced by tyrants.

Marxism just means everyone is equally poor. Heh! Talk about the downfall of civilization...!... Marxism kills economies rapidly and socialism kills economies slowly. Greece is doomed. Then Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland will be in the headlines. Then the Austrian banking troubles with Eastern Europe will emerge and eventually the entire Euro based economy will collapse. 

The Left is pure deception. There is no lack of money. Poverty is a state of consciousness. The ills of society are NOT because of capitalism but stem directly from the laziness and stupidity of the average schmuck running around trying to get something for nothing. The way so many of my peers have squandered the wealth that has fallen into their laps is astounding. They made a series of really bad choices through life and now they look around and say "hey, that guy has more than me" and they conspire with other lazy buffoons to legalize their system of theft.

and in some ways, we're all gods, not just me, so anyone could equally write stuff here.

ok

Free market Capitalism and the Central Banking system did more to increase the wealth of the common man than any other system in the history of mankind.

I don't know either. Several folks at the other AP forum have agreed that the beings they encountered and kissed in their adventures taste awful too. Like some bitter sour swill taste. So I'm not the only one encountering this phenomena....

When I first read this I went, "whoa!". This was something that I had experienced multiple times but had never read or seen mentioned anywhere.

I think 'awful' might be overstating it a bit. But I have wondered about the 'bitter' taste that would sometimes darken an otherwise very bright LD experience but I never could figure what it was about. If you hadn't mentioned it I probably would have just left it as one of those odd things that I never quite understand. Now that I see it is part of broader experience I will keep it in mind as a question to possibly find an answer to some day.

We are near the same age, CFT.

I cogitated on the symbolism a few moments. Fish-Neptune-subconscious... Flying-freedom-release....

Hmmm, I am getting a good feeling on this one (as long as the fish appear content and in good health)

Denizens of the deep, at home in the Air. A synthesis of the elements.

For many years I have had very vivid dreams or LDs with fish swimming in the air. Often enough even that I began to notice that they had a preference for a certain variety of large shrubbery. It had widely spaced leaves that they could swim through and between.

That is not true.

I was being fair. The claim was made in the context of putting down a method developed by someone identified by name.

When someone wants to make an observation "only true in context to themselves" they usually qualify it in that manner. Without the proper qualifiers such as, "speaking for myself" or something along those lines a general statement is properly understood to apply generally.

The simple method of the Body of Light is a thousand times better than all that book at once, and it has been written more than two centuries ago.

This claim was made with respect to the Raduga/SOBT method. Despite the obfuscatory semantic tricks of the claimant, it really does constitute a claim to a 'superior' method.

I spent some time among the Thelema/Crowley folks trying to get enough info to decide whether to seek initiation with them or not. I also spent a period months as a probationer in what I found to be an excessively secretive Rosicrucian GD type school. This involved full on daily practice, keeping a magickal journal and submitting the journal for monthly review by the powers that be.

In the beginning I found that during instruction and discussion there are many claims made about tremendous abilities and great wisdom, etc. to be had for those who persevere in the Path. The neophytes are regaled and wowed with incredible stories and anecdotes.

If you spend enough time among them and just get to where you can comfortably chat about this and that, occasional comments will drop that reveal just how little progress most of these serious, hardcore would be Magicians are truly making. The effort required of these aspirants is immense. They must memorize huge tables of obtuse and arcane information. They must perform daily rituals and essentially immerse themselves into that lifestyle. But in the end there is often very little to show for it.

I got to know initiates that had been practicing these methods for many, many years and they admitted that they could not even get OBE at all much less at will. This was not so much the exception but more often the common reality. A couple teachers that I spoke with held high office and initiation status that implied wayyy more than the ability to just get OBE now and then. The leadership and senior members will make big claims about fantastic abilities and such but when you get into a position to get to really know them a little better it is found that they 'exaggerate', to put it nicely.

Some things are more specific than others, Rudolph.  If you have a church teaching, for example, that celebrates resurrection as happening exactly three days later, and then you have a gospel that talks about how Jesus went to hell and came back three days later, it's not hard to see where it came from.
Of course, the gnostics, being greek, had their own cultural tradition, but I don't see the objection, as anything taught in most religions has evolved and changed as to not to be exactly pinpointed to it's origins.

Not hard to see where it comes from, true. Certainly not the Gospel of Phillip in any specific manner or any of the Gnostic gospels any more than the canonical Gospels, which clearly describe the death and ressurection three days later.

The Greek traditions existed long before the Gospels recorded them. To claim that the Catholics got the tradition from a gospel is missing the point. The tradition and practice predated the recording of the tradition in a book.

I also think we need to recognize Hebrew "Gnosticism". The Scroll discoveries of the last century make it clear that the Judean, Aramaic speaking and also Coptic communities had gnostic type traditions that may have stemmed from the Greek Schools but may have even more likely developed straight out of Egyptian tradition.

Just FYI, Catholic scholars will be the first to tell you that much worship and practice stems from tradition as much as from scripture. This is in fact, part of the Protestant sola scriptura controversies. They would criticize the RC Church for certain practices that "aren't in the Bible" and the Church scholars would simply reply, "Right, it stems from tradition" (in a "you gotta problem w' dat?" type posture) and of course the Protestants had a big enough problem with that such that all of Europe was launched into near endless war over it. Pre-Reformation Europe enjoyed a very long stretch of peace and relative prosperity that ended abruptly with Martin Luther's egotistical self-indulgence. Luther himself expressed his regrets on his deathbed about wishing he hadn't made such extreme choices. He was horrified at the bloodshed that his method of protest unleashed.

The "fact" that you think you explained it clearly it doesn't mean that it happened. I told you that it is possible to do and I told you the way on how to begin doing it.
And I replied you that it's not a thing pertaining to only a *specific* method. You have to train different aspects.

I told you what happens if you want to try. You asked me how to do it and I replied, but now you don't care not to try nor to listen. What's this? Do you want all for nothing?

You can think it's garbage, fine. You can think it doesn't work, fine still. But if you ask me for a way to do it I tell you what you must do to begin learning doing it the way I know and I have done. But now you say that what I told you is not correct and it's garbage. It is you that asked me how to do a thing and now you pretend to be an expert that knows that I'm telling you an idiocy? If you were an expert already why did you ask me?

I asked because you made a rather bold claim and if true I am sincerely interested in your method. But it is clear to me that this "superior" method of yours (Light Body, Middle Pillar, Raja Yoga, hand waving, smoke blowing...etc.) is just exaggeration.

You see, Selea, you came in here and talked down the Raduga obe4u method and made a claim to having a better method. Now, I personally am familiar with the Raduga method and I know by personal experience that it is excellent. For me, it worked as advertised. Now someone comes along and says they have something even better?! wow! I am definitely interested.

So... Regardie's Tree of Life. oh.... That. okay. Why it took so much to get that out of you is a mystery. Well, I read as much of that book as I could long ago and the archaic style is tedious at best. I really could not take it seriously after reading the "Banishing Ritual". I also consider it one of the worst resources out there for learning the Middle Pillar exercise. For those not familiar with it;
http://www.davedavies.com/splanet/magic3.htm
This is a rather involved exercise and takes quite a while to learn how to do it properly. This plus 2 to 4 hours a day Raja Yoga and then maybe, what?, 30 minutes to an hour  a day developing the "Body of Light"? ... hmmmm. Do this for a few years and the chela will 'soon' be Astral projecting "at will" ??
Sorry Charlie but that does not even begin to compare to the efficacy and results of the obe4u approach.

Now just to put this in perspective I had been doing the Robert Bruce MAP work for almost two years and had been getting OBE about once a month before I stumbled across the obe4u method. But when I tried it, it took my success rate to a whole new level in about a week. (And as I already said, I had been practicing a branch of Surat Shabd yoga for decades before the Baba Fakir Chand revelations and I became disillusioned with the entire Hindu yoga culture and methods).

So, your ambiguity and general hand waving and claims to needing to know more about the individual level of development is not holding water, Selea.

You made a bold claim but you have backed it up with basically nothing.

For example, if you read some of the gnostic gospels (I'm thinking Peter here, for example) you see a lot of Catholic tradition that comes from what it says in it, even though some of these ideas are not found in the officially approved gospels.

Do you think a lot of the Catholic Tradition really came from the Gnostic Gospels? or could the Gnostic Gospels simply be a recording of a sufficiently well entrenched tradition that the Catholics simply kept alive?

I think that to say that those traditions came from the "Gnostic" gospels is a little like saying that oxygen comes from the Periodic Table of Elements. 

deal

I personally think sleep paralysis should not be your goal as it is only a symptom of your ultimate goal. In fact, it isnt even a prerequisite for an OBE....

I agree completely. I have been projecting on a semiregular basis for a couple years now and I am not sure if I have ever experienced SP even a single time.

I am a little curious about it but I am pretty sure that I won't be making a goal of it.

I have all but given up on trying to make sense of these Gnostic Aeons. When I read the Gospel of Judas I started investigating and found that apart from the Hebrew style, there were several Greek systems that differed from each other in significant ways.

In the Basilidian Gnosis they are called sonships (υἱότητες huiotetes; sing.: υἱότης huiotes); according to Marcus, they are numbers and sounds; in Valentinianism they form male/female pairs called "syzygies"

Does anyone here really understand how it works and whether it is at all useful to contemporary disciples of Truth?

A) I alredy replied "yes" to you.
B) If you ask me the better way how to go to "San Jose" I could tell you that it's better to take a bus than to go walking.

A) No, you didn't. I explained that very clearly.
B) I did not ask you about a 'better" way. I asked if you if you had an "effective" method.

Selea, I think you underestimate the knowledge and ability of many of the contributors here. When you say "The Middle Pillar is a method that treats chakras in a specific ways done appositedly for projection. When you will have mastered it you will be able to control at will the "light" formulated by using it" -- it sounds like you are caught in your own little world of SeleaThink and you can't get out long enough to simply grasp what others around you are really saying and asking.

I asked you about your "method" of Middle Pillar because I am aware of about a half dozen significantly different variations on the central them which you lightly touched on.

I am trying to get very specific and you keep returning to generalities (which makes it look like you really don't know what you are talking about).

As I've said, if you really do have applied knowledge that arrives at a specific result, I am all ears.

So... Raja yoga can require six months or a lifetime... or something inbetween, heh. Not real helpful. I know one school in India where they teach that if you follow their system of Yoga for Four Lifetimes the devotee will attain Liberation from the Wheel.
 

No thanks.

Mr. Campbell has reached a point in which, at any time during the night/day, he closes his eyes, let's go of the physical, slips into the void, and reaches the phase without a mantra or a pre-nap.

He also claims to be able to shift awareness at will, within a few seconds, and then be able to see auras.

I don't know if that constitutes a phase shift but that has to be some seriously reduced entropy state! 

If I lied about what you said I lied about, why in the hell would I do that when at the time I thought you deserved a chance? Anyway, it doesn't matter now. If you want to talk about this further, do PM me.

I have no idea why you did what you did. But you did. And I asked you to correct the record, but you did not, you played dumb. Even after pointing out exactly for you the quote you attributed to me (but that you really just made up out of thin air) ... you did nothing.

And then here again you falsely accuse me, once more. Profanity? (This would be out of character for me but I was a bit miffed at the time... so I went and checked). Nope... I could find no profanity -- unless "dadburn Canucks" falls in that category. I did say that. More dishonesty on your part, Summer.

You know,  I pm'ed the other parties you mentioned and received helpful advice from several of the others involved on how I might better handle the situation and there was even advocacy and intercession on my behalf. We came to a mutual understanding.

When I saw your relationship I wondered if you might also have some helpful part to play here and so I asked if you were in communication with a key player on the matter. But what I mistook as a healthy relationship apparently turns out to be just low-down brown nosing. my bad. Now I know better.

LOL
Sure, Rudy, sure...

The conversation never took place. If you say so...

It absolutely never happened. And I was temp-banned at the time so I sent you a note asking you to post a retraction to the forum taking it back. But you didn't. And now you double the lie by standing by the falsehood.

And I thought you could sink no lower....

Here's a couple examples that I already spelled out for you:

Here is one example;

You said this while I was temporarily banned here;
"By the way, I've been in touch with Rudy...
He's only got three words for all of you and it's not "I love you""

No such conversation *ever* took place. I never made any comment that would fit that scenario. The liar completely made it up out of whole cloth.

I recently asked you privately if you had been in communication with Xanth (over our communal disagreement - nothing to do with "the Arlindo-Ryan conspiracy theory") because it would be consistent with your modus operandi.

{could you possibly stoop any lower?}