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Whats the purpose of a purpose? I mean do things need/have a purpose? that might very well just be a human concept. does a tree need a purpose to bloom? I don't think so ; )

So if I act like I don't believe in spirits, energy, controlling my dreams, and be very angry at it like it's nonsence and it then happens in the dream, then I become lucid cause I don't believe in it. Did I understood you right?

I don 't completly understand the following "Like I said if you deeply
believe in being able to controll your dream your heart will tell you
that you are in one"
Isn't that the opposite of the above( believing that, controlling is nonsense?) Or is that an other technique?

thanks Tom

Thanks Mustard! I'll certainly try your technique. I do have Lucid dreams from time to time. My technique is that I tell myself: "tonight I'm gonna have a lucid dream" while falling asleep, I do only get about one LD per week though.
My main problem is, that I don't get full control once I'm lucid. For example if I'm trying to fly I feel like a astronaunt on the moon but I can't lift off completly. One other thing is, that often ilogical things happen, but I don't get it. I'm lucid but still not completly clear in my mind. For example: I can't remember what I wanted to do in the LD, or like last night: I attached a  hidden card under my bed to verify if I'm actually out of my body or not. I had a lucid dream and decided to look for the card. But I walked to the stairs and looked at a card there, although I never attached a card there. And I didn't got it although I was lucid!
So do you have any tips how I can enhance my lucidity?

quote:Originally posted by mustard

Are you aware that you are dreaming in your dreams?

I'm seldom aware in my dreams, I would like to be more aware though! I wasn't aware in the "falling from the building" dream

quote:Originally posted by mustard

When you fell from a building did you feel, like what you felt in
a rollacoaster, your body froze and you felt you were going to jump out of your flesh. If it was something similar to what I described,
you might be very sensative or psychicaly connected to spirits who have died and are trying to use you to communicate if their death was
undiscovered, or if they want to prove something.

Hmm  I can't remember exactly. Once I hit the ground, I felt like my body got smashed but I couldn't fell any pain. My body felt like a useless sleeve. Then my vision faded and I found myself ontop of the building again. Why do you think spirits are trying to communicate?

I can't interprete your dream for you, I think one should do that for themselfs. Just remember that dreams are shapped from a great part from your subconscious, so maybe you shouldn't take your dream too literally. your fears and expections may appear in your dreams.
If I understood you right you have a Lucid dream every night, right? That's awesome! You should inform yourself about the possibilities of LD and use them!!

I have died many times in dreams. Never has it felt painful, scary or negativ in any way. Most of the time I had an accident: I drove with my car in a river, or fell from a cliff. I had dreams in which I died several times. One time I fell from a high building and every time after I died I found myself on top of the building again. When  I die in dreams my conscious fades out slowly. Dying in dream being deadly is a fairy tale.

Qui-Gon Jinn, very well said!!I believe good/bad is just a concept of the human mind.

So far I myself couldn't really crasp the ultimate difference between LD and OBE. Well yeah there is the separtion process leading to the OBE, the vibrations.... but the experience after, is it really other than a LD. Well I guess I have to get some more OBE's to see for myself. I'll see if I can find proove that OBE is actually happening outside my physical body.
Cheers Tom

check the Lucid dreaming forum on this side. I use the same technique you do. I induce a Lucid dream then I close my eyes and find myself in my bed with vibration. I'm pretty new though, have just gotten out of my body once so far. but I'll work on it. What's in your opinion the difference between Lucid dream and OBE?

I see this kinds of websites as an IQ-test. It helps you  to determine how well your brain works. How clear and rational is your thinking. I think thats an important point before you start astraltravel. Imagine you are very naiv and credulous thats not a good mental state to explore a new world and to learn

Purelight, could you send it to me as well? Thanks a lot!
tombodenmann@hotmail.com

There are different meditation techniques. What I do is vipassana meditation. It's an old style used by the buddha I was told. Observe the breathing, don't do anything else.
The point is, what are you meditating for? If you meditate to get  wisedom, understanding, enlightment, then the techniques you guys use, I think are not very usefull. If you try to get an Obe, then your techniques might help to calm the mind.

Hello

I can understand your situation. Get a car or move to an other place would probabaly be the easiest to change the old routine , which is always a hard thing to do.

As far as dreams are concerned, reading the book "exploring the world of lucid dreaming" By stephen Laberge is a great starting point.

See you Tom

The book by stephen Laberge is a must: I forgot the title though..... I think "exploring the world of lucid dreaming"

Shaman: O.k. good, As soon as I got something I report back.

Ensoñador: Yeah I think like you these experiments are very interessting and have far reaching implications. It doesn't matter if you don't have that many LD I don't either. I'm still thinking about the difference between travel and psi-reception. Is there realy any at all?

Cheers Tom

Having many lucid dreams is generally regarded as a "postive thing" . No bad effects whatsoever are known. many people have them naturally, so I don't see any weired thing about it. In fact used wisely your LD's might bring you great benefit. For example dream yoga uses LD to attain enlightment. If I would be you, I would read some good books about different aspects of LD, that might help you realize what gift you have!

It didn't work like planned. I didn't dream of any envelope with a geometrical figure. I recieved a envelope in one dream but it was a white one with a letter inside. can't remember exactly, what it said. I see two options now:
1) I try to figure it out in my next LD
2) You say, what it would have been, and we try again.

No drinks tonight. I'll concentrate on the envelope. I'll report back tomorrow.
see you Tom

Hey HyperD, you seem to have a LD pretty often. is there any certain methode you use to become lucid or are you just talented?
thanks Tom

O.k. lets try that.So if I understood you right the person recieving the message doesn't have to have a LD but just a regular dream, right? time difference between Switzerland (La Suisse if you like although i'm living in the german part. actually my french is pretty bad!...)is 6 hours. so you could draw something and I see what happens. lets do it with a drawn figure. what about Sunday morning (swisstime)?

What you guys try with the future experiment is cool. I had the same kind of experiments in mind when I started my "help me explore the dreamworld" thread. It would be cool if you guys could use that thread for the experiments, cause it would be a more clear arrangement then, for other to follow. But never mind it's not so important

quote:Originally posted by purelight

I am new to meditation only 22 days and the first day i meditate for 1 hour. The others the same and i thought i wasn't meditate a lot so i force my self for more, so i meditate for 1 hour and a half.
After that i can't go more becuase i fell my body heavy,dead like and so calm that i fell like, don't know how to explain it right, like Total calmnes and feeling detached from my body (not floating).
Is this a state of meditation? If so which one?

Thats a common behaviour if one starts to meditate. One forces it and after a couple of weeks you get bored cause you think it's too exhausting and it takes too much time. Be carful about forcing your mediation too much. It's better to meditate 40minutes daily for 10years then 2 hours a day for two month.
The state you describe. Basically it sounds right to me. the most impotant thing is that your mind is fully alert. Is your mind fully awake when you mediate?
Should your mind be calm? One day he's calm one day he's not thats how it will be. There is no certain feeling that one must get during meditation. just  mindfully observe what happens.

quote:Originally posted by MiStACoRn

It's easy to answer the question as to whether or not incest is natural... sure it is.  It's our culture that ISN'T natural.  If you put any other animal into a room with it's relative.. whether it be a brother, sister, cousin, whatever... chances are.. it will try to mate.  This also brings up a good Natural Selective point.  If incestual mating were detrimental to a species, Darwin's law would have ruled them out by now... yet there's tons of species in nature that don't mind a roll in the hay with their relatives and seem to be doing just fine.  By natural I would assume you mean biologically natural.. and basically if you take away a human's ability for rational thought.. we'd be mating with our brothers and sisters all over the place.  So I would have to say that incest would be more "natural" than not from a biological standpoint.  Also.. no matter what you believe as far as the origin of our species is.. if you believe Adam and Eve were the first humans.. well then their kids mated with each other.. otherwise we wouldn't exist.  If you're an evolotion fan.. then if you trace our species back far enough, you'd eventually get to a point where it would have been impossible for us to survive without incest.  So if that's the debate... saying it's wrong because it's not natural.. I would have to disagree..

As far as looking at your sister in a new way after having sex with her in an LD.. eh.. well here's a little basic psych for you.. your ID says: "hey look a hot girl", your EGO says: "We should have sex with her because we're horny and that will satisfy us", and the Superego says: "What's wrong with you?  That's our sister, and our culture says it's bad to have sex with her, so snap out of it!".  What I'm trying to say is that.. if your sister's hot.. your sister's hot.. you'll be just as attracted to her than anybody else.  What you CAN do, with higher processing to cope with cultural law, is convince yourself that you're not attracted to her because she's your sister.  But there's no other reason why you wouldn't be naturally.

I also understand that you don't mean a literal linking of the dreams.. i.e. if you kill someone in their dream then they die in life.. that's a little too Freddy Kruegar even for these forums []  But as a psychologist, I do belive that dreams are completely contained in your own brain, and you're the only one who's effected by them.  Most Psychologists don't give any merit to dreams as far as meanings go.  There was a psychological fad with them going back a few decades.. but for the most part nobody could really show any results one way or another.  Recurring dreams are sometimes explored in psychotherapy and can be useful, but other than that for the most part they're extremely random.

On the incest matter: I see your point.
Do I believe in Adam and Eve or am I a evolution fan? Actually I do believe aliens created man. Do you know Erich von Däniken? Very interessting, but that would be a new discussion.
Are dreams only contained in the brain? That would be a new thread as well. I think a lot of people here don't think so, I myself am split about it. we should start a new thread to get their opinion as well.

quote:Originally posted by Nagual

And when Hyperdimensional will realize that reality is just a dream...  []

Can you explain that a little more in detail? How did you came to that conclusion?