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Ermmm. there are different styles of meditation using very diffrent techniques and pursuening different goals. most meditation techniques can not be done proper if one is lying in bed! cause one would loose concentration. Mediation is not only calming the mind but mindfully observe it without loosing "sharpness".
I meditate 1hours daily, with a bit practice evrybody can do that, all you need is a reasonable quiet place, time and the will to do it. i think most people are able to provide oneself with these conditions

Wow MiS... you should write a book..[8D]
I have to explain one thing. English is a foreign language for me. So sometimes I use the wrong words, which may sound rude (like retarded) I don't mean to be, I just can't express myself proper. So please don't take me word by word.

Now on the incest matter: I basically agree with you Mi.... To be honest my main subject is enviromental science. I had my my biology classes 2 years ago. So I can't say for absolute sure how bad it is if you have a child with your sister, but it probably won't be the end of the world from a biological viewpoint. I don't wanna tell anybody what he has to do and if two people are in love and wanna be together, thats fine with me, no matter if their are relatives or not. Now on the question if it's natural to have sex with your sister, which I think was the starting point: I still believe it's not, but I might be wrong. One could now studie different cultures and also investigate how common incest is done by mammals but I don't have the time to do that. that might be interestning
Now on the question if LD are interlinked: I think you missunderstood me. I do not believe that if you kill someone in a LD that at the same time an other person is killed in a dream. there's no proove what so ever to validate that theorie. And it sounds pretty illogical to me. . As far as experiments are concerned I would not take the fact that the scientific community is not able to confirm something, if they are willing at all, to draw the conclusion that it's not true. Things like dreams, where the subconscious is interferring are very hard to explore on a scientific basis.  
The connection would be more suble.The obvious is for example memory.
You remember your LD and that will influence you. Lets assume you had sex with your sister in a LD won't you look at her with different eyes now? I meam you have  a degree in Psychology so you should be able to tell us the consequences. I'm looking at it more from this viewpoint.

Now to Hyperdimensional: if you are using your dreams to explore your true nature and working on problemes, thats all fine with me. But if you just think the whole day what pervertion you could try next and then just mindlessly carry them out, then I truely think your wasting your LD's.

"you're assuming that the mutual agreement prior to the debate would be that LDs can cross and effect each other.. I don't believe that... and from the tone of the postings and what people have said I would assume a lot of the posters on this thread don't believe it either"

I find that very strange assumption. It's a very pleasent assumption indeed. No worry whatsoever, so I can see why you guys like it. But after reading many posts on spiritual matters I came to very different conclusions. No things exist solitary, every thing is interlinked. So I can't understand your opinion on this question.

MiStACoRn wrote "The only way for this type of thing to happen is if you start somwhere and do not allow ANY outside genes to be passed on to the generations for about at least 10 generations before you'll start seeing biological effects. i.e. - Two parents have a boy and a girl and they mate and have a boy and a girl, and they mate and have a boy and a girl.. not only would it never happen even in a world where incest was socially acceptable.. but the chances are extremely rare. So you're right.. but you're arguing against a point I never made; that's not the reason why incest is culturally taboo."

I do not really agree with that. First of all it's not true that you need 10 generations until you see negativ effects of incest. Thats very easy to explain. If your family carries a very rare gene for a bad disease which is not dominant. Chances are remote that they'll mate with a nonfamilymember carring that very same gene thus nothing will happend. but if they mate with each other the disease will be seen after the very first generation. And what about the retarded people that are heaped in remote moinatin villages? One other point you should consider is, that it's nearly impossible to clearly locate the orgin of a culturally taboo. Just theories here. Although I do admit, that nonbilogical reasons maybe it.

Incest is  biologically bad, cause if the close family members have offspring there's a increased probability that defect genes will be expressed. Although it's unlikely that they'll have 14 toes, there's a increased likelyhood that the offspring is less fit than the average, thus will not survive. Not only did I pick up a biology book, I acually studied biology. So I recommend you read that chapter again! I think you missed a couple of things []

Here's my opinion: Whether a action(physical action, thought, fantasie,dream) is good or bad is a relativ statement. However this action will create an effect for others and for YOU in the first place. Whether this action happens in the dream, LD, Astral, physical, Mind or somewere else it will have an effect on you and others anyways. If this effect is labeled good or bad is relativ but it's a misconception to think that the LD is a "world on its own". Of course it can be a great place to explore yout pervertions but not without effect.

By doing something "bad" you wont get rid of it, thats a missunderstanding. I don't see much sense in doing these pervertions anyway (What do you meany experimental purpose?!) other then satisfy ones lust. And I really don't that it's all positve.

To AndrewTheSinger: Now, did you figure the Bongo on your own or was that a joke after reading my homepage[!]

To Musterseed: why don't you participe on our experiments? Come on!

I would call back before theories go hand of hand without any real proof! If he met you he can meet you again if he knows so much about you he'll find out were you live with no problem. So thats obviously not what he wants. He wants you to contact him. Once you call him you'll see what he wants, then you'll have a much better chance to figure out whats going on. I'll would certainly inform some people close to you just in case he's not an angel or something.

Looks like I just got punked[B)] Good joke indeed I must admit....You would have told me anyway right?! RIGHT?! I guess using my real name for username wasn't that smart, I see that now very clearly[)]
Won't happen again!

Thats just crazy! Really awesome! Or did you guys just go to google and browse for tom bodenmann[8D]? hehehe

To AndrewTheSinger: Exactly I play the Banjo! I was afraid you didn't even know the instrument. How did you get that so quick? very good! Ohh BTW I think we might do better if we ask for picures instead of words. That might be easier for the subconscious to get tru!

To Musterseed: How did you do that? The music I play is called Bluegrass music. It's origin is a area called the blueridge mountains.
It's called Bluegrass cause the meadows (fields) have a blue (purple) color in that area. The big guitar would be a bass then. The numbers I can not explain. Ohhh wait! we are 5 men and 2 woman in the band! thats just crazy! one band members name is Marlies (=> marlase!) one is Theo Hurter (=>Harter!)
Didn't you really cheat[]? Next time I choose something impossible to find out "illegal" [^] we'll see what you do with that!

I assume that the person doing the pervert stuff is the one that will get hurt the most, in a karmic sense.

I think there are much more rewarding things to do in a LD then playing out pervert fantasies. I would suggest reading some stuff about dream Yoga and things like that.

And if you don't care about that, what I assume you will:
Atleast you could try to be the woman next time (for experimental purpose only, lol). Or even be both persons at the same time (yes that should be possible as well).

Hmmm Bongo isn't that far off! 2 Letters are wrong though. Do you wanna try again? tabasson, bongo .............funny!
What you read, sounds like a child tring to pronounce the instrument in a way. I do think your subconscious tried to give you the answer but did not clearly came tru.

Well I failed. I tried to fly in the sky. It didn't work to well and my eyes began to burn, so I decided to close them which was a bad Idea cause as I opened them I awoke.....
Maybe next time

There's a 99.9999999999999999999999999% probability that this is nonsense[]. Lt. Commander Data over

Wow, you seem to do some cool stuff in your LD. I'm also impressed with your ability to astral travel I'm  still working on that.

That dream with the TV really is a bit scary, that plasm thing sounds very interessting....but on the other side if it takes form to tell you that you just died or something that wouldn't be so cool.......on the other side I really wonder what would have happened if you just stayed in the dream. Well I guess pain is a sign that something is wrong, so I'm sure you did the right thing (stopping the dream I mean)

About the name ,I think it wasn't luck as well, but as you said my subconscious scanned for the answer. Although one name really isn't proof for anything.. I really think the main problem is the conscious mind interfering with the dream but maybe we find a way to reduce that. Don't know how though.

Btw: These experiments are a lot of fun! I hope we keep it up! I'll go for the bufferzones next.

Yes that was the first time I tried to find a name, maybe it was just luck? As with my fathers name, His real name is Walter but we all call him Finn. He's realy a very friendly kind of a person, guess you could say he's almost like a dude to me.
You know I think we should repete the experiment to see if we can find out some more. I play an instrument I don't think it's possible to find out by luck. Why don't you try to find out what I play? It's a string instrument.....
Do you have any similar thing that is unique that I could try to find out?
Your experiment with the dreamchrakter sounds pretty strange Isn't it strange that the face changed all the time? guess I have to try the trick, that it holds my arm, too.
As with other experiments I have 2 ideas, but I never tried it before:
1) Fly up in the sky as fare as one can go, One other guy said that he passed some bufferzones and passed different "levels" I wonder if we experience that too.
2)One person told me that I should dismiss the dreamimages and then I'll end up in the astral plane. I don't know what exactly he meant with "dismiss the dream images" He said I just shoudn't pay attention to them and then they'll disappair.
We could try the first one, Fly up in the sky.[]

Have you tried getting up in the night then after maybe 15 minutes going back to sleep with the strong intention to have a lucid dream? It works best in the morning hours. Just keep tring you'll find something that works..[]

Pretty interesting stuff jason! I'm exploring the dream reality myself (see my post). I'll definitly try out what you have done. I'll post my experience then......
Keep my informed, Tom

Really? Bete is your sister[8D]. Thats pretty awsome caus I never heard that name before! Bete was really the first thing that poped up, then it started to change. So it looks like it's a least possible to get some infos thru the dream, cool!
What do we try next?

Hey Logic! I'm not that good at LD either. But, of course you have to become lucid from time to time in order to participe, maybe you could practize a bit more or maybe read the book from stephen laberge, thats a good one.

To AndrewtheSinger: I became Lucid and tried to find out your parents name. I was walking down a street , I said that I want to read the names of your parents on the side of the streets. There was a text and one word was thicker. It said Bete, than it changed into Beta or Berta. Than I remember something with P and an "i" somewere like Pierre or something. Well I don't know...
What about Berta and Pierre?

Ohh I forgot. My last Ld was to short to ask for your parents names but I'll try again.....[]

Hmmm,   Maybe names are to difficult to find out cause words tend to change all the time in the dream world. Maybe you got her soulname, if there's such a thing. Or it's not pssible to receive such information in the dreamworld. Or maybe one has to train this ability first. I mean it's clear that the mind interferes with the dream, so I expected it to be difficult to find out things like names and stuff. I believe it's possible though!! to conclude something  me must at least try again, also, we need more people to participe! We could try the color thing. I pick me favorite color and draw a cicle and mentalize it several times a day, what about that?
Or we could also  try to find out more about the dream world. In my last LD I asked an other dreamcharacter who he was. He said he were only a "channel" which I didn't believe him. So you could do the same in your next dream. I wonder what answer you get. Or we could try to protect to a certain place which we don't know and then we could compare our experience. What about that?
My LD abilities are not that good, I manage to get only about one LD a week  What technique do you use?
Well anyways thanks for your effort, see you Tom

Lol, Her name is Ruth! But we should not give up! I have a lot of stress right now cause i've some important tests in University. But I wright back soon! I'll try to figure out some more experiments.
see you Tom

Well, alright but why do you need my real name? With name and location I guess it's possible to find the parents name via internet. Don't wanna offend you! I give you my name  and you figure out my girlfriends name. What about that?
Tom Bodenmann, Switzerland
I'll try your parents then..

here's my way to induce the vibrations:
I induce a LD which at least for me seems a lot easier then inducing an obe. When the LD ends I stay aware and feel myself moved back to my sleeping body. Now I just stay completly calm and don't move at all, at this point the vibration hit me with full intensity after about 2-5 seconds without any effort!
This might especially help people like myself that have problems to relax completly
Hope this helps somebody!