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Ok, I got the idea. OBE opens a lot of posibilitys not only for curious and ambicious but for really seekers of freedom. I just think we probably as humans are not prepared to power, cause we havent developed uncondicional love. I read the other day a book about US and Rusian goberment experiements with ESP for war uses. They were wondering how to kill people with distance telekinesis, or how to teletransport a ship into others country. The book is called "Remote viewing". Atlantida collapsed because abuse of power, and I just dont feel we are ready to recieve great revelations or visit for example fromk other worlds. We have a lot of work to do in our tridimensional world, and in our selfs first. Wisdom has been secretly conserved for just a few.  
                       Ensoñador

Hello everybody:

Astral traveling does help us to look at the world in a more expanded way, but sometimes too much clarity and power can make us blind and fall again. What I think is taht we should always ask ourselfes why do we want to OBE, cause many people do it to feel powerful and special, or for egos desires. Astral planes are still part of desire.

About the gringo thing: I can defend myself. Words are not ofensive if you dont feel yourself bothered. If someone gives you a "gringo" dress, why do you put it on you. Nobody can be unrespectful to you if you dont get hooked in others words. The racism you hate in others is your inner racism. Gringo cames from two word: green go, this was an old concept in US invasion to Mexico used by people to claim their own land. IF you dont like to be called gringo is because you still beleive in the power of that word. The more you get bothered about something, the more you give power to that wich bothers you. You are responsable of your own reactions and feelings, not Mirador or me, just you. GRingo is an empty word, but you fill it your self importance, so the word becomes important to you. Lol.

                          Chiao,

Reasoning wont help to answer those questions. There are no multiple bodys, its all just one body. Being everithing and everywhere is something nobody can explain, its something private will have to experience

I know a man, he walks in this world and fights with dragons, wolfs, and go to spiritual palaces at the ame time. He is not crazy.
He had no education, he is just the guy who clean up the dumpsters (trash). When I ask him how could this be, he jut answer me, " dont know, I just do it" and lol. We can make theories or iterpretations but knowledge comes to us just by experience. Nobody can write the truth of the universe in a philosophical essay, its like tring to put the hole ocean in a glass of water. The invitation of life is to live it, not to describe it or capture it in a peac of paper. When someone tries to "know how things are or work" they aproach to knowlwedge as if it is an objet. This marterilaistic way of thinking wont ver open for us the door of true wisdom. I believe the "correct" way to aproach knowledge is acepting tree things:

That we dont know anything
That we wont know anything
That we dont knw what are we aproaching to.

We are always thinking in what WE want, but what does life wants from us, what does she want us to reveal? I want lumination and I want OBE, but is it true the universe HAS to obey my egos desires? We humans and every single dot of life are just instumnets of something bigger, the universe is pregnant,somethingsgoing on and we dont know anything. When I think is it rue its me the one who thinks, when I want something is it true Im theone who want it, Is my will my will, or my will is the will of soethin bigger? See, I have only more questions for your questions,.... Theoreical answers wont heal the emptyness of your quest. Find inside the water o life, but dont ask me how!
                           Atentamente, Ensoñador

Hello

Love is when we recognize in us the truth. Love is conciousness. Love is not dependency, or romantic feelings where we put our happyness in others hands. Love is freedom[] and has nothing to do with being afraid or preocupied about someone. Love is uncondicional, and the capacity to see beauty and perfection, the capacity of feeling an "see" God great plan in everything good and bad that happens.

Lol.

Es ingenuo el que cree que sabe muchas cosas. La ingenuidad no esta en no saber nada, sino en creer que se sabe algo. Su sospecha es correcta, me hago el que sabe mucho, pero no se nadita. Y hay de aquel que crea que sabe...mmm...hi hi. Usted cree que sè mas y piensa que por eso me hago el ingenuo, pero lo que ocurre realmente, es que aquì nadie sabe nada. Y usted mismo sabe que ni yo ni usted sabemos algo. Sabemos que no sabemos, y no se puede ir al conocimiento con mejor disposicion que con esa ignorancia controlada, hi hi.  Olvidese de esto y viva.

PD. Que utilidad tiene volar sino sentirse Dios por un ratito?he he..

If you want to have more information on Jinas state, visit samaelgnosis.com, he has some curses about it. But I bet you this: if you want to make Jinas to feel yourself important, youl never get into that sate. You cant push Power to obey you, cause you are the one who serves. You will fly only when it wants you to fly, not when you say it. Its just a suggestion. Same thing with astral projection, you can call power with your intent, but "he or it" decides to respond to your call. Its true, nowadays is useless to the "proposito or purpose" having everybody flying, we got other jobs to do. Innner work. But if you want to try, go head, just be careful to feel bad if your not achieving it. blA BLA BLA.... GOOD BYE

Thanks for your suggestions!!

Hello, this is what I belive:

Lucid dreaming is in the dream world, in your personal subconcious, astral projection is in the astral world or in the real time world, wich belongs to the transpersonal mind, not to your subconcious mind. LD and AP are just to different states of concious.... sometimes you are lucid dreaming in the astral world, then its already an astral projection.
                                         Bye!!

To make the diffrence between our un subconcious and the other real world is one of the hardest topics I think to be understood. I believe as Carl Jung explain that there is a collective unconcious mind. I think when we met other entities both theories are correct. What we are seing is a part of ourselfes but also a separate being. I believe we all are proyections from a single universal mind. I proyect you and you proyect me, and we experience ouresleves as different beings, till we notice we all all one. Love is to recognize this. I suggest to everyone to not to try to understand theese with our mind. I suggest to consider everything real in diffrent levels of reality. We are all time proyecting fro our mind to the outside, and that is what we call reality. The purpose of this dual experience, you and me, is experiencing something that is not the totality. It was not posibble to experience something when we were everything. There is only experience where somithing is outthere to be seen. We are all and still are an "inside". Our world, I belive, is the most exterior side of an inside. We are a single mind, percibing itself as tree, as sun, as air, as indiviual concious. God wanted to know himself and figured out to reflect himself in others. We serve gods intentions that in fact are our intentions. Forget this and live your experience without trying to find the truth with our rational mind. Subconcious can be personal or tanspersonal. The transpersonal side is the side of yourself that contains the others. And you are contain in others mind too. What we really are is "evrything and everywhere" but we have to be in this world and in many others as different entities and we shall not say  "You and I are the same person". Word don work to really understand unity. In this level of reality we live, I,m still me and you are still you. Understanding the universe as one single mind, I bellive ends the probelm of what is me and what belongs to the other side. Both are right. You and me are separate and only one. Relativity and the absolut, working together. So if you see other being during your projection, treat him with love. This means talk to him as a separate being but feel to him a brotherhood feeling. Unity and freedom so is conserved.

I dont belive in God because I see it! everywhwre! Belive in God is a phrase/word wich contains in itself a God wich can´t be experienced. I dont belive in "him" because he is just right now here (and there). There is no need to believe, there is just need to open our eyes to what we are already seeing. Life is about remembering what our real nature hasnt forgot. Faith is not beliving in something, is acepting facts already have appened and are happening. I think we give to much power to words that separate things from us. Do yo believe in god was the cuestion, a cuestion that in itself separtes "us" and "him".

¿I am saying we are god and GOD is we? YES, and we have to be carefull not to missunderstood this, because we are talking not about an egomaniac attitud.  

                                             Thank's a lot fot the cuestion and the sapce!

Hey there.
My opinion:

The spiral you saw is the spiral of evolution. When you go to higher planes you cross the spiral, same thing when coming back. Energy in your chest is normal, and increased ability to Obe after lucid dreaming is normal too. When you fell down in your lucid dream again, try to control your falling thinking that you are landing not in your phiscal body but in your astral body. When you open your eyes you while notice your are levitating over your phisical body. This will earn you to wake up and satrt inducing obe. The black woman could be a lot of things: another projector, a reflex of yourself, a guide, a memory of yourself in other live, etc... When I was a little boy I saw a red spiral, not while obe,  completly awake.

Hello there:

Sometimes I remember Obe at 100%, other times I remember things but dont know what happend first and last, and sometimes I cant remember a thing and just wake up with the feeling of having gone somewhere. I have notice something also: even If I remember the whole experience, most of the times I just remember part of it. Last night I remember going out, walked on the roof, contacted with my father, and returned. But this was just what I was doing at real time zone because my spirit was traveling somewhere else in higher planes at the same time. When I woke up I talked to my father and he told me we were traveling, flying over a valley last night. When I was out of body I remember holding his hand in my bedroom while listening to the sound of a spiritual river. He felt me too, and hear the river also but he saw diferent things. I think we met out of body and traveled then to other places. He cant remember that part in the real time zone and I cant remember the vally, but we were both in both dimensions at the same time.

Hello: You wanted to know more about what my friend said.? He said that we all have and are at the same time angels. The sensation of getting taller is because your are getting in armony or in touch with this part of yourself that knows. This friend of my has a whole description of the spiritual world and is teaching me some stuff. Have you ever read Castaneda? Remember when Don Juan touches his back or shoulder to make him feel diferent states of conciuones because the movement of the perception point, well, I think is the same thing. Our point of perception is moving a little bit. He also is trying to teach me how to start my heart on. He points to my heart with his fingers and then I feel heated and blood moving slowly. When this happens everything around me starts to get darker or fogy. Other stuff is to teach me sword movements and shield movements. Not marcial arts. The sword is spiritual and the shield too.We use them to destroy dragons made of lost spirits. Dragons are the result of ego activity. I believe only what my heart says, not my racional mind. I havent seen dragons yet but one thing is for sure: my friend knows things that I dont know, and make things I cant.

I think you are right. The differnt ways we try to explain experience are just like guidings in the mysterious world. Word wont be ever experience!. Any way, sometimes we need some references to sart doing something, sometimes we dont.

Yes, you are right, but I think bilocation is a different fenomena. To "materialize" the energy body so others can see you at two places at the time is really something extraordinary. Probably you are right and we split in two, but we are not  two, we are just one. ¡Do we get out of body or we just percieve ourselves and make others percieve us in two? I still belive we are just one only body separating itself insidly. I know this sounds really crazy. Any way, my way or your way, they are just two descriptions of the same thing.