Messages

Would you believe it, I spent all today lugging boxes into a storage shed. Alas, my home! I'm going to be without one for the next two months - giant road trip ahead!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Synapse, not always lucky! I've often thought that the ability to have spontaneous projections just opens up a whole different set of problems. After all, there's not much point in being able to project if you have no control over it, or if you've been so terrified by lack of understanding that the whole experience becomes so frightening that you fight even the smallest sign of exit symptoms. Even though I  know about projection now, I still have moments where that programmed fear response takes over. At least if you've had to train yourself into doing it, you can take it step by step and not do anything that is too overwhelming for you. (But that's just a guess, so I may be wrong.)

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Helen, I was also terrified for years. I started having nightmares (which I know now are OBEs) when I was about sixteen, and it went on until about a year ago when I started reading up on astral projecion. I'm 25 now -that's nine years of being afraid to go to sleep!

Simply breaking through the fear can help. The way I think of it, it's the old flight-or-fight reaction going on. The moment I decided during one of my experiences to fight rather than fly, the whole nature of the thing changed for me. It's been a truly amazing thing to learn what all that fear was leading towards, and I know what I've experienced is still only the tip of the iceberg.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I do sometimes have kind of "OBE frenzies". For me, they come hand in hand with the paralysis, where I actually have real trouble not being sucked back into the astral - even if I don't want to be , like if I'm having some kind of nasty encounter.

I agree that dreaming is just a less conscious version of projecting. As time goes on, I'm realizing more and more just how much dreams are like two-dimnsional stage props; something our subconscious builds up to accomodate its own needs. When I become lucid mid-dream, I notice that the difference between what is created by me and what is part of the astral world becomes very clear. Particularly when it comes to people.

Meg



"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

And congratulations on the birth of your daughter!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Donna, I would love to read these too - if you could email me that would be great!

Thanks,
Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Kenneth, I bought AD a few weeks back, and I am doing the early exersises at the moment.  I think up to this point, I've really underestimated the importance of energy work. In terms of of my OBE experiences particularly - when I think back to those phases where as a result of grief or stress or nothing in particular, I've become very psychically sensitive, I think its no wonder I didn't cope with it very well -my whole energy system was out of whack. It stands to reason that the more energy your lower chakras/energy storage systems have flowing throguh them, the more strength you can maintain on a higher level without losing that groundedness. This is all obvious I suppose, but its quite a revelation to me!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Helmut - I'm glad you see the point I am trying to make. It is very easy to romanticise Mental Illness and give it qualities which may not necessarily be there. I am so wary of doing that, that I border on paranoia myself! (hoho) The reality, the blood and guts, of Schizophrenia is not like it is in the movies: It DOESN"T make sense, there IS no redemption. We really are talking about people who can't fuction.

However, I really can't discount that there is psychic potential in some of them that they are simply not able to use. I have seen so many "coincidences" that I can't write off.

Ta for your feedback.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Wow, this is fascinating stuff! I have talked to my guide a little about my past lives, and it has made sense to some extent, but nothing like what is being described here! I would LOVE to hear more... Oahn, are you able to see the evolution you have taken from one life to the next, in terms of what you have learned?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

When I was a kid, I once tricked my brother into drinking tinkle by pretending I was drinking some and saying how nice it was. We were in the bath, and he ticked into a cup and drank it.

I think it's a funny story, Fred. Your family sounds great.

It strikes me that this is posted on the "spiritual development" forum... (!)

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Tom, thats interesting... Since I've been working there, I have really felt the need to do things that ground me, as you suggest. In the last two years, I have learned cooking, ceramics, mosaic, crocheting, and dress-making! Isn't it funny the way we intuitively fill these needs?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Also, the buzzing - see if you can just climb out. It's how I have most of my OBE's now. It's the same feeling as the during the paralysis from my nightmares, but now I know what it means.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Jacara, this is good!! Really, I was plagued by #@$!ing  terrifyning "nightmares" when I was a teenager and had lots of sleep paralysis. I see now that all that time I was really out of body without knowing it. I reckon maybe the scary stuff is sent to test us, or maybe it's just easier to get in touch with the "lower astral realms".

I remember the exact moment I realized they were OBEs. it literally took years. Normally in my nightmares I would be face to face with some terrifying creature that I could never quite remember afterwards, and I would try to wake mself up, only to find myself paralysed. One night I remeber being at that stage and letting out this giant, blood-curdling scream, and taking a running jump out my bedroom window, breaking through the fear barrier.

Suddenly I found myself  flying through these beautiful landscapes, one after another. It was so amazing, diving to the bottom of the sea, flying through the stars.

There's been one or two scary hiccups since then ,but its never been like it was before. I'm getting more and more control over the process as time goes on. Now I can actually feel the physical/astral body split, and it's become more of an obvious process.

Good luck to you!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I get this too. I did read a scientific explanation once, but I cant remember the details about it...something to do with chemicals in the brain that occur just beofre sleep..

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Windameir - It's something I've given a fair bit of thought to, mostly because I work with people with disabilities - mostly psychiatric, though we have some  with intellectual disabilities and aquired brain injuries.

I do believe in reincarnation, and that we choose the lives we are born into so that we can learn the appropriate lessons. I think that disability is a part of that (not that I'm BLAMING anyone for their disability, if you know what I mean).  

I don't think pure spirit would have such limitations. I imagine death in general as being the moment when all those things are transcended, and you can see the purpose and the pattern of your lifetime with full awareness and appreciation. We all have limitations - they may just be our egos or something, rather than an actual physical or intellectual disability - but I think death would take us beyond them.

And besides, after hearing some of the saddest, most unjust stories you can imagine.. I NEED to believe there is a purpose to it, and a better "life" waiting for my patients.

Meg



"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I read a wonderful book called "Cloudstreet" by an Aussie author named Tim Winton; part of it was about just this. Without going into details, it turned out the whole story was being told by an intellectually disabled person at the moment of death, when his life "flashed before his eyes" in full clarity.

People frequently talk about various bodily conditions having no effect in the astral - such as if you have had a leg amputated, or you are in pain due to illness etc. In my opinion, an intellectual disability is something physical, it's a result of parts of the brain not being in their full working order. I think if people with intellectual disabilities projected, they would have the same experiences as anyone else, but they would not have the same means to understand and interpret this once they were back in body. I think it would be the same thing with death.

And If you believe in reincarnation, the whole idea of peolple carrying disabilities beyond their lifetime changes.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Isn't it funny, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to these images -though I'm certain there symbology going down somewhere. Last night I saw an image of someone spray-painting the word "purple" on a wall... very odd.

So guys, how exactly do you get from this state into fully-fledged OBE?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Robert Bruce talks about this exact thing in AD.

I think the physical affects us while we're projecting from time to time. Sometimes I will feel branches brush against my skin if I'm flying around too close to trees, but by the same token, I'll float through walls as if there's nothing there. I think maybe it's the expectations of your mind manifesting themselves.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Sorry folks, but I thought "blue ballls" was an excuse made up by teenage boys to get their girlfriends into bed!

I'm serious.


Meg


"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

For some reason, I find it very relieving to hear that other people are having the "guides evading answers" problem. I was hoping it wasn't just me.

For those of you who have discovered more than one guide out there, do they have different ways of teaching you things? I have one guide (presumably a guide, because he does help, in a funny kind of way)  who calls himself Ellis.  He is pretty harsh with me sometimes. He nags me to do more proper training - and for those of you who read about my astral relationship experiences a couple of months back - he even brought THAT up, saying "You've done more hard work for torrid sex". (!) He's like the nasty football coach in American teen movies!

It's certainly not all I imagined having guides would be...!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

These are perfect suggestions.

I had a lucid dream/OBE where I met my grandfather very recently. It was amazing; he died when I was a three weeks old. He told me to pick up my singing again, that he used to love watching me sing. People who have crossed over are always with us - its such a beautiful thought.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Sorry folks, I just thought of another questions I've been meaning to post. Everyone is always saying that when you strart hearing voices and images pop into your head, that means you are getting close to the astral.  This happens to me frequently just as I am going to sleep - sometimes an OBE follows after the aforesaid 90 mins, sometimes not (or else I have forgotten.) Now, my question is this: HOW exactly do I go from the point of having this "astral perception" to actually being out of body? The images/voices don't necessarily accompany any vibrations, mostly they don't, in fact.

Ta,
Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Sleep paralysis is certainly terrifying when you don't know what it is! I spent years waking up with it beforeI even started looking into the idea of astral projection.  That kind of fear takes a long while to get rid of - it becomes automatic.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Thank you, Jeff! After years of spontaneous, visually perfect projections, I'm just starting to get the "conscious projection" thing down, where I actually feel myself leave my body - and my vision has been ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING,  nothing but black gloominess and cloudy shapes. Its very frustrating, because it was fine before!

I'm starting to think it would have been better if I'd had to learn OBE through sheer hard work, rather than it coming to me "by accident" - this way, I seem to have developed a whole different set of problems!

Meg


"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Isn't it annoying? I always forget to ask the really good questions when I am face to face with my guides while projecting.

However, I do make contact with one of my guides through automatic writing, and when I ask her anything really important, she frequently tells me to go and find out the answer for myself! (or something to that effect) The few times I have really pressed her for more info, she has wound up giving me more than I can truly digest. Once I asked her about my past lives, and she was happy to tell me the last one - which was interesting and also very relevant to what I'm going through now. Then I asked her to tell me about some more.. At first she didn't want to, but I was really persistant. So she let go with this massive stream of eighteen other lives, and I was completely overwhelmed by it all! And to be honest, most of it meant very little to me on any level beyond basic curiosity. I think there's only so much we can take in at a time!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson