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quote:Upstream: You can request any music you like in your AP's

Oh mannn, does this include rap music too? [:O] [^] [] []

Your friend is quite lucky Tescious to learn that quickly, but then I believe that some people are just more 'open' to these experienes than others.

To those people who think that OBE's and dreams are the same: There's a BIG difference between astral projection and dreams. Projections have a clarity and realness about them that easily rivals anything in the fully awakened state, in fact my favorite explanation of whether or not you've had an OBE comes from Albert Taylor (author of 'Soul Traveller') who said "If you have to ask, then you were dreaming".

When you've had an OBE, there aren't any doubts about the experience!

Just a thought. Since I was never in a full blown OBE, but instead in that peculiar twilight state just before, or in my case - AFTER sleep, I wonder if one can tune in, as with the H-Band noise, this particular frequency with the proper concentration? I'm thinking that this may be something that can be 'tuned' into without leaving the body.

Patrik,

Kerrblur may be well meaning, but his mean-spirited, insulting remarks were not. After all, we're ALL entitled to share our ideas here, whether or not those ideas find favor with others or not, but apparently some here would like to claim a monopoly on intellectual discourse. If that's how Emperor Nero feels, then maybe he should go elsewhere.

I don't think anyone here 'attacked' him, just pointed out matter-of-factly that he was acting like a, well...jerk.

Nitetravler, over and out.

Yo Kerr! You need to loosen your collar a bit dude. My using an episode from Kung-Fu was simply meant to say that using force, anger, will, or negative emotions against a negative entity will in all likelihood make it stronger, or more resolved, that's all. You missed the point entirely.

Jesus H. Christ, I thought my mom was dogmatic. [:O]

Robert Monroe IMO is the undisputed godfather of astral projection literature to which all contemporary writers must doff their hats in gratitude.  

My apologies Robert, wherever you are! []

Thanks for the article Upstream, very interesting indeed. I've heard this theory before and believe that it could quite possibly be one of many explanations for this phenomenon.

Hannah, the music I'm talking about sounds like something you'd hear on the radio or at the concert hall, only a thousand times more beautiful. It almost seems to resonate from within, though it sounds like it's coming from outside oneself. I've tried, just for fun, to see if I can shape the melodies myself by concentrating on doing so, and lo and behold, it conforms to the musical ideas in my head. Other times I can't, no matter how hard I try, affect it in the slightest. I have to confess that I'm a musician myself, so maybe all of this could be the imaginings of my own creation, even if subconscious.

The sounds you speak of (screeches, etc) sounds like stuff you'd hear while in the hypnagogic state, and is definitely different from what I'm referring to. One sounds like something you'd hear on the radio (orderly, with a definite melody and rythm), the other like jumbled, chaotic, noise.

BTW I understand your english quite well. []

Celestial Music eh? I wish it would happen more often Thelou, but unfortunately it's been years since I last heard it.

BTW gang, I found two interesting links, one from an eastern point of view, the other from the western, which talks about this phenomenon.

http://www.murshid.net/music/music-of-spheres-b.html

http://www.peyote.com/jonstef/spheres.htm

Hi Cairnsb,

after checking out Robert Bruce's stuff, check out William Buhlman's.

http://www.out-of-body.com/

and

http://www.astralinfo.org/

Buhlman also has an excellent book (2 rather) that he offers for sale on these sites, though you may find them a bit cheaper at Amazon.

Happy hunting! []

Hey Kerrblur, your approach to dealing with negative entities reminds me of one of my favorite episodes of the old Kung-Fu series.

Caine has to fend off the attacks of 3 assassins sent from China to kill him. Two are martial arts experts, whom he defeats in battle, but the third one is a black magician who uses his dark art to conjure up a demon that looks exactly like Caine. After killing several people the demon comes after Caine, who uses all the skills at his command to fight his supernatural foe, but realizes to his horror (after several skirmishes) no matter what he does, no matter how skillful his moves, the demon responds with even GREATER skill and stregnth, knocking Caine easily to the ground.

The demon is in fact TOYING with Caine.

Just as it moves in for the kill, Caine realizes (through flashbacks with his Master) that he's responding to the demon in the wrong way, and that using force or struggle against evil only empowers it. As he relaxes his grip and calms down the demon relaxes IT's grip, and with a slight smile and nod, a nod that seems to say 'OK, there's nothing more to fight here' it turns around, charges and kills the magician who conjured it in the first place, and who was sitting in a trance a short distance away, controlling the demon.

The great lesson in this episode for me was: don't respond to a negativity WITH a negativity, since it only empowers and emboldens it.

Not always easy to apply, but certainly worth remembering. []

I couldn't agree more Majour Ka, the development of one's spiritual nature (finding one's Higher Self) is perhaps the best and safest road to travel.

Thanks for the input gang, I agree that the sounds I heard were NOT astral entities since they were not directed towards me in particular, but rather loud, random noises emanating from god knows where. The sensation was like being in a dark room with a gazillion radios blaring at the same time.

...which brings me to your account Cube, it sounds amazingly like mine, and my instincts tell me that we unwittingly 'tuned in' to this particular frequency of the astral plane.

From reading of many people's accounts here - and elsewhere, including all the books I've read on this topic, I get the impression that we humans are nothing more than radio transmitters and receivers, capable of tuning in to an infinite number of frequencies (dimensions).

T.L. what you described sounds almost like the astral wind, except you feel electricity too at the same time. I'm not sure what that is but probably something to do with the hypnagogic state as Cube said. I've had the vibes, which can feel like electricity, and I've felt what can be described as a strong wind blowing over me, as well as hearing what sounded like a windstorm, and usually when these things happened I was always in the hypnagogic state.

I think I may have met some of my guides in my dreams when I was a child, but cannot remember what they looked like or what was said. However, I sometimes have the experience (as an adult) of being guided (literally!) in my dreams, as if invisible hands gently grasp me from behind and steer me to a given destination. When this happens, nothing is ever said. It's as if something or someone  is watching in the background waiting to assist.

BTW I heard this guy (Von Braschler) on Coast To Coast last year and he spoke extensively about how to contact your guides. His book looks interesting...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0738702501/qid=1084819379/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-5908836-8531943?v=glance&s=books

Jeez, look what happens when you try to have an intelligent, enlightening discussion on matters of great import. [}:)]

I come home from work ready to chow down, log onto this site, read something about eating semen, and lose my appetite. [xx(]

As Khan said in Star Trek II, "From hell's heart I stab at thee..." [!]

Hi Cezyl,

I wish you well on your experiments! I tried the dream approach to OBE's as a teenager in the 70's and it never really worked for me, though YOUR approach is a little different from the one I tried.

Some people may have a knack for this method and find it a boon, but I aint one of them (dag nabbit!). One writer who devotes an entire book on the Dream Method is this guy...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0906006899/cm_aya_asin.title/104-5908836-8531943?v=glance&s=books

...who'se book first introduced me to this method. It's quite detailed with some interesting techniques and ideas, as well as some personal stories by the author. I left a review of this book at the above link which was rather lukewarm, but hasten to repeat that some people may indeed find ideas here that open the door to the astral success they've been seeking.

Good luck!

Hey Cezyl, any time dude! []

To comment on Cezyl's statement about Dr Lin's website (www.actionlove.com), Dr Lin does NOT believe in complete abstinence, nor does he believe in ejaculating too frequently. According to Lin, frequency of ejaculation is determined mostly by age and health of individual, thus a 40 year old man can ejaculate at a frequency rate of from 7 to 10 days with maximum benefit to health and energy.

However, for the more determined here's a site with info on how to 'go the distance' with storing one's sexual energy, in this case, if you believe the author, for months at a time. Any takers? []

http://www.precisiondocs.com/~keithf/HLSBielsFireWater.htm#SpermPalace

Here's another segment of the same site...

http://www.precisiondocs.com/~keithf/HLBMSELTT.htm#PreparingTheBody

I'm not familiar with Robert Bruce's new system Shedt, but I remember reading through his book Astral Dynamics and marveling at how similar some of his exercises were to chi kung. It's probably a pretty safe bet that Robert's NEW system DOES incorporate certain aspects of chi kung.

That's what I noticed too Psionic303. Chi kung seems to give the practitiioner more control over their internal energy, which sharpens their focus and relaxation skills, thus having a profound effect on astral projection.

Yeah, I also dig the little cartoon thingy he uses for an intro.

Hi electricsoul, I believe the $3,000 you mentioned is for Gary's Nei Kung course. When I ordered his Chi Kung course about 5 years ago, it was around $600.00

You're right $3,000 IS a lot of money to shell out for, well...ANYTHING, be it a nei kung course, chi kung course, or whatever. Also, Gary was very rude for calling you names, but then Gary is known for being bombastic and aggressive. I've spoken with him on numerous occassions and can say without reservation that while he has a lot of enthusiasm, there is definitely a rather hard edge to his personality. In fact, on a Kung Fu forum 5 or 6 years ago, someone posted a story about Gary at a Martial Arts Convention, where several people saw Gary approach Master Pan, the foremost Iron Fist practitioner in the world, and ask him to strike him in the stomach full force. Master Pan, so the story goes, smiled and politely refused, saying that if he did that, Gary would be seriously hurt. Gary persisted until the Master simply walked away, and was thus spared the embarrasment of explaining to the attending Emergency Room Doctor that his stomach was ruptured by a little 'old' man.

Anyway, I digress. To answer your question regarding Gary's chi kung system. Probably the most important aspect of his course is what he calls Condensing Breathing, which is a technique for drawing energy into the arms, legs, and torso, much like the 'packing' exercises practiced in some forms of kung-fu or chi kung. His system essentially teaches how to draw energy into and out of various parts of the body, and ends with learning how to do the Microcosmic Orbit.

If you want more detail regarding his system just let me know, I'll be more than happy to reply.

Peace

Hi SpectralDragon, from your reply it sounds like you've had quite an extensive experience with chi kung, confirming my suspicion that this art has (at least for some people) a profound effect on their astral endeavors.

I believe that chi kung not only builds internal energy, but keeps the practitioner grounded as well, which is very important. In fact Mantak Chia, a very well-respected chi kung teacher once said that it's extremely important to learn how to ground yourself when learning astral projection. I guess the 'danger' is that without grounding you become too spacey.

At the moment I'm practicing Gary Clyman's system of chi kung which teaches a more direct way to control energy, especially sexual, by using standing and sitting postures. I've incorporated some of Dr Lin's ideas (see link in my above post) as well as Mantak Chia's to make it even more effective.

My next goal is to start practicing Tai Chi Ruler.

BTW I've never heard of flicking fingers, though the Sinew Metamorphosis sounds suspiciously familiar. Is this the same thing as the Muscle Tendon Change practices?

Bravo Jeff, your post was very well written and definitely thought provoking. You've raised some interesting points that differ quite markedly from what many of us have been told about acheiving OBE's, and like others here can hardly wait to put what you say into practice...who knows?

Hmm, the idea sounds intriquing. I'd love to be knighted on the astral. []

[A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or else what's Heaven for?]

I don't know if this qualifies, but I used to have the experience of what felt like a sensation of a strong wind blowing over me while I lay in that peculiar 'twilight' state, where you're not fully awake, but not fully asleep either.  It would last for perhaps 15 or 20 seconds and start to fade, at which time I would awaken.

At the job where I work (graveyard shift) I would go into one of the rooms for my break.  I'd turn on the vent to heat the room, and as the place I work is fairly old, it was fairly loud.  After lying down to rest, and again while in the twilight state, the sound of the vent would morph into what sounded like a windstorm.  I didn't feel any wind blowing over me, but the sound was definately one of a strong wind, somewhat like a gale.  After about a minute or two it would fade back into the sound of the vent and I would awaken.

In this same room I used to sense the presense of entities, and had a brief 'encounter' with them once.

*********************
A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or else what's Heaven for?

-Robert Browning
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[A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or else what's Heaven for?]

Recommendation:  Go to your local army surplus and get yourself an old WWII gasmask.  Hey, if it's good enough for nerve-gas it's good enough for methane.

*********************
A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or else what's Heaven for?

-Robert Browning
*********************