Messages

I think what you are discribing is some sort of ascended state of mind.  I experience the same thing, I saw some sort of strobing effect one time while trying to project, but it faded as I stopped rasing energy and became restless out of failure, again.  When I meditate outside in the day time, after about 15 or 20 minutes I start to get these psychadelic visuals of different hues of like black and silver and grey all mixing together and intertwining, it's really cool.  The first time this happened, I was like Whoa! cus this white light kept on circling my view (with my eyes closed) and forming like a ball or orb of some sort and then just went down, down, past my view.  It did this over and over again and each time the orb thing would get bigger and bigger, until it was all that I could visually see, and this was when all the stuff started happened while I Med.  Then, when I open my eyes, all of my view is in this peculier blueush hue, then returns back to normal after a couple of minutes.  I think this has to do with the fact that most spiritualists say your brow chakra is an indigo color (light blue).  I'm guessing when you stimulate this area emmensely, I guess It kind of intesifies the power of the color....?

[also]

Sublime, please, don't apologize, I was was just trying to respectively correct or make some statements bringing the whole issue more into light.

I'm sure you do feel like a better peson after not drinking or doing any drugs anymore, afterall, you are preserving you body and spirit at a more pure state, especially since you are a vegentarian. (Did you know people say E.T.s are vegetarians because they recognize what the diet can do in the long run?- read that in a wierdo alien book, heh) anywayz, but I find it equally (personally) rewarding experimenting with enothonagens (i think i spelled that wrong), specially shrooms, I can't wait until I can try them again because the last time I tripped, I had never even heard of an OBE.  Then I started getting into more occult thinking and read hella books and also read Astral Dynamics, and also all of my accumulated time meditating.  I have done none of this before the last time I tripped.  I consider my self a much more developed person now.  I've done an eighth of shrooms twice and the trip was a little weak.  My shrink says I probably have a higher resistance to the active ingrediant than most people, so I wanna try a quarter and hella meditate and possibly even project.  I know it sounds a little odd but I find it so fascinating, the effects of shrooms and you combined creative imagination.  

You know, I've never even projected before in my life, it's like my number one goal.  I think I have an adept skill in raising my own energy and actually feeling it, I can stimulate my brow or naval chakras and feel definate activity within seconds now, and it just gets stronger and stronger; Thanks to Robert Bruce's "tactile imaging," that is.  When I first attempted this strategy, I could barely feel a little change in pressure in my toes and hands, and nothing at all in the major areas of my body, but now I can quickly scroll up and down and feel the whole of my body increase with every second.  You'd think that I have all the nessary skills to project, but I think I still lack in the trance area.  It's probably just a simple psychological problem, which I must hurdle.

quote:What i mean by that is I hate that everything is so polluted with chemicals, makes me wish i lived back a looooong time ago when things were completely natural.

Yeah it sucks nowadays.. war, drug abuse, gangs, suicides, lack in faith of the Self...  Did you know like before industries and stuff, back to the time of pure nature, itself... the amount of pure oxygen in the air was 80%  Guess what is now..? ABOUT 6%!!!  Can you BELIEVE THAT?!?!

...So that's what Formaldehyde is... No one better put than in MY buds!

and to --->

quote:QUOTE

you simply highlight the area you want to quote and click on the little symbol/icon of a little paper with a red arrow to the right of it, above all the little faces and fonts and size and all those other miscellanious.  It inserts an HTML command between the selection.

Yeah, now I'm really really interseted, too about this "Salvia Divinorum."  I read the FAQ and saw the prices, I'm definately gonna try some of them out. who knows ..maybe my mom will even consent of it if I show her all these facts... I always bug her about talking about astral projection and mystics anywayz... heh.

[BUT]

Just as I presumed,  most people in this thread have stereo-typed the mere word "drugs" to the extreme..

sublime,
 

quote:In the meantime, their brain cells are getting rocked along with other major areas of the brain that soon will result in many side effects. Therefore, is it really worth it to enhance your senses??? Cant we just train ourselves to naturally enhance these senses? Sometimes when I'm done meditating, i will walk outside and be SO much more aware of my surroundings, i'll hear every little sound and be able to piece everything together. it's almost a feeling that i cannot describe in words. As far as i know, meditating doesnt have any negative side effects... so i think i'll stick to that instead of taking a chemical that you really have no clue what is in it unless you are making it yourself... i believe that i've heard that sometimes formaldehyde will be found in weed because it helps it to get it's "sticky" quality... hrmmm i think i can do without that and that's just weed, God only knows what is in some acid hits/LSD/shrooms.

You know, there are drugs out there that do not kill brain cells.  Marijuana, for example does not kill your brain cells, despite the old wives' tale.  Studies have shown that your IQ does indeed drop while high, and especially after frequent use (I'm talking at least once a day for a few months; pretty much all my friends fall in that description).  BUT it returns back to normal once all the THC has cleared out of the system; there is absolutely no proof say that marijuana kills your brain cells. It simply does not happen; it temperarly alters your conscious and awareness.  

Of course we could train our senses to experience these umm... experiences... but why not "check out the postcard" and see right off the bat, I see no harm in shrooms it once.

I agree with you on the meditation, there is (personally) for sure
an elevated awareness and senses affect when I meditate, and nothing can beat the ultimate gains from meditation.  There is on drug that can mimic weeks and weeks of accumlated meditation.  It is the conscious, clear mind which is the key.  Always, after about 20 minutes or more of meditation, my whole vision has this peculier blue/indigo hue to everything I see.  I also read how the third eye chakra's energy/color is this indigo color.  I wonder if this co-relates with my brow energy.... and coming through my vision...?

When you speak negatively about "chemicals" you must also dislike everything around you then... EVERYTHING has it own unique chemicals or particles in it, right down to the air you breath and the "natural" food you eat.

What is Formaldehyde? I have never heard of it, nor aware of it being in the (superb) bud that I buy.  That Stickyness is actually the potentcy of the THC amount in the plant. You can even see the little THC crystals on really potent weed. (the chronic)

As for shrooms, they are 100% natural and contain a substance already found in the brain, it just gives the brain a surplus surge (depending on amount) of it's own ability- to the extreme!

These definately have their positive and negative sides, as do everything in the universe.  A shroom head might just get lost in his own imagination in his regular, waking state.  An acid head (200-300+ hits) would probably see non-stop tracers and have absolutely no conscious memory, and being consciously aware of it!  Would not make you necessarliy "dumb."  But a perfect example of a drug that makes a person really, seriously stupid would be E (ecstacy).. There's so many drugs in it; heroin, speed, coke, you name it.  It literally fries your brain brain cells and making the effected area black and brown from this "deadly acid" to the brain.  The "association" areas of the brain (the 90% of the brain used for planning, comprehension, memory, ect.) are particularly affected; this is what makes a person "dumb." The other 10% are the "motor" areas, controlling the voluntary and involuntary movements of the body (such as running, talking, digestion, sexual arousal, ect.)

Trust me on this stuff, I'm a majoring in Psych.



Inguma, what is Ketamine classified as?  Do you have any drug related sites other than Erowid.org?



Monicat777, how about sharing some shroom trips you've had, that would be neat.



lateralus897, Salvia Divinorum huh? never heard of it.  You should tel us about your experience when you do it  It's funny to note how dramatically the placebo effect can have on people.  I'll have to check out this drug myself.

I like to look at the perception potentials of the human brain in comparison to a bucket.  The more water you fill in this bucket, the more intinsive the your senses are.  Somebody tripping on mushrooms, LSD, or peyote would have this bucket spilling, from over-fullment of water.   I remember a friend saying to me, "Dude, acid is awesome, it's like you see sounds and hear colors, heh" ...

anteus,

quote:Dependency is a dependency???
How can you call dependency ok??

you should try doing some more research.  Dependency is OK, you depend on so many things in your life, it is countless.  You depended on you mother as you were an infant to take care of you and as an adolencent depended on family income to support you.  But other dependencies are not "ok" like dtugs or alcohol.  It all depends on how you look at it.  Who ever said once you OBE you depend on it?  He probably means that once you experience it, you wanna do it again and again and explore more and more.

quote:I am not always "blind". I jump among darkness and light and watch the show. I am an experimenter.
I try to keep the old ways. How can you keep your foot on the ground?

How could you make ground breaking discoveries if you try nothing new...

quote:Really??? How long can you maintain OBE without your body getting tired? If I OBE, I don't sleep.. If I sleep I don't OBE.

Your body IS sleeping when you OBE, your mind is just more aware....

gotta go... my lunch break is over..

From what I understand, everything in the Akashic is purely metaphorical and symbolic.  You could witness and interpret one thing, but it could really have a totally different meaning.  It's not like the objective history of history embedded within the Akashic, but rather a compilation of the subjective thought forms perceived by individuals throughout time, creating a massive reality, which fluctuates enormously.  If there is an Akashic Records, and everyone is able to access it, why would it be wrong to ge there and see for yourself what actually happened? ... that is if you can interpret it correctely.  

During the assination of JFK there were probably tens of hundreds of people with dreadful racing thoughts of whats going on, along with the thought of the persons that actually killed him, you would have to look at it through a higher perspective, then filter out the nonsense, in my opinoin.  I have never experienced the Akashic, but consider myself knowledgable.  

Also, why don't people simply just go there and find out truths..? Well they could! It would  definately affect the future, but in a respectively truthful way.  But as for major public occurences as the JFK assination, you can't just present something like, "Oh yeah I know who did it, it wasn't David Ferrie or Claw Shaw, it was their aquantinces, John Smith, and Ricky Martin.  I transcended my consciousness to a higher level plane and witnessed it with my own mind's eye, last night..."  It would be just mumbo jumbo to the public.  But, in a light, different factors could spring out from an "astral investigation" and new evidence could come about, thus really linking other people to the assination.  But I'm sure the sHaDoW gOvErNmEnT wouldn't want that now....  They already know..

yeah, I thought I recognized that quote from the 'Thrid Eye' song (right?).  Tool is one of my favorite bands.

[endorphins]

Sublime-

Who is Bill Hicks?


Filipcza-

quote:Look at at what happens to drug users. All they want, all they need is their next fix. They completely forget this reality and want to live in "heaven", even though heaven can be felt only in the beginning of the drug use. Gradually they need more and more to keep them feeling good, then they need it just to feel "normal" and eventually they need it to stay away from "hell". They take larger and larger doses until it kills them. The only lesson those drug users must have learned in their lives had to be "keep away from drugs!".

I'm sure you must be thinking of methemphetamines when you say that.  I can definately see (and have seen) that happening with cocaine/PCP/heroine abuse.  It is very sad.  The "elevated moods" and "experienced heaven" you speak of happens like this:  Opiates such a Opium and morphine contain endorphins.  Our brain has these natural endorphines.  Endorphines are are the chemical that links pleasure and pain control.  When these artificial endorphines enter the brain, they take over and mimic the natural ones. That would explain the "heaven" like feelings; a surge of pleasureable sensations and if anything, the opposite of pain.  But the more these drugs are used, the brain becomes used to them (addiction), and stops creating its own natural endorphines, relying on the artifical ones.  Ceasing the drug use will eliminate the amount of endorphines in your brain, until they start coming back, your hell, or withdrawl.  


Euphoric Sunrise-

quote:How can you be sure you're not just hallucinating and seeing what you want to see when you're under the influence of drugs like that?

That's the beauty of it all!  Taking larger than normal dose of shrooms is like having a waking dream!  I'm surprised how little studied this substance is.  I have done shrooms three times; the first two times alright, I took an eighth and the sensations I got were like greater sense of auras, deep, meaningful thoughts, and my vision was like I was underwater... the 3rd was bunk.  During that time, I was a lot less mentally developed and was unaware of the effect's higher potnetial.  I look forward to the next time (no addiction here) I trip on shrooms, I plan on doing a quarter rather than an eighth because they seem a little weak when I did them, but some friends really started to wig out, I think I have a greater resistance...?  I see no danger in doing shrooms, unless of course, you had a very bad trip, affecting you emotionally and traumatically (don't to shrooms if you are depressed/have bad self esteem and are very paranoid!).

The only addiction that I could see coming out of non-physically addicting drugs (such as marijuanna, shrooms, peyote, LSD, masculine) is when you do it so much that you brain becomes accustomed to it and you know no other way of think, but on this drug.  You love what it does and want to do it again and again.  There are no withdrawls.  It as a psychological addiction.

Tom, that is a very interesting way of describing out journey. [|)]

Epsilon-

quote:I can probably say that first time I took ecstacy was one of the best days of my life so far... (which isn't that long, I'm only 22)
I did it with a bunch of friends, and one of the first things we all did was give each other big hugs and tell each other that we love them. (sounds corny, I know) It was the feeling of unconditional love for EVERYTHING for a good 4-6 hours. We went outside on a bright sunny day and I thought I was halfway to heaven. I just sat and thought about life. How beautiful life really is, and how the life we live in can be so miserable sometimes. I then laid down in the grass and thought more about life. I don't really want to go anymore into it, because it's kind of personal. Plus, we all have our OWN thoughts on life and why we're here.. no need to try to influence my ideas on you.

I hate ecstacy. I have never done it and will never do it.  I know enough about it to consider it false enlighenment.  There are so many different drugs in E, I couldn't even count them all. It is not a pure substance.  Marijuana, cocaine, mushrooms are all pure.  They grown from Gaia and it's as simple as that.  E fries out your brain and that the truth. Have you ever had a chit chat with an E-tard?  It's hard to understand and comprehend what they are trying to say.  I've seen catscans of E-tards' brains and there's usually about 40% left of usable associative brain areas that still function.  That is usually after 30+ uses.  I see no "spiritualism" coming out of a drug synthesized by man that causes this much harm.

quote:But once I was on another drug (don't want to say what, it's kinda embarrassing, but it can be found over-the-counter in a pharmacy)

LOL! It wouldn't happen to be a bottle of cough syrup would it...? haha! I did the same thing. It contains a substance called dextromethemphormine (DXM).  and whoa was it ever an experience, best trip i've ever had so far, I could see whatever I wanted! It was great, I though I was about to project while meditating/raising energy, but nothing happened.  Some people say it makes them spontaniously project and they also see aliens and stuff, heh.  I could see my own stringy, sapy aura around my hands, too, playing with it like I did in elementary schools with Elmor's glue from hand to hand [)]


Rodentmouse-

quote:in my experience with drugs i think they are good to experience, but when you become bored of life, then they are bad.

there are also drugs which supress or elevate consiousness, maybe its a personal thing but alcohol supresses mine, whilst weed and mushrooms elevated it.

for a start theyve legalised the wrong drug... being drunk you are more prone to disater than when you are stoned or high etc...

doing weed helped me a lot in my energy work and meditation, it made all the states of body and mind become more obvious, so i knew what state i needed to attain to project when i was sober.

I absolutely agree.  Except you confuse me when you say that drugs either elevate or supress consciousness.  Do you mean how the drug affects your mood and emotion psychologically? I hear you when you state being high on weed helps your energy raising capability.  To me, it seems that I have a greater sense in my energy body as I raise it, I am more focused when I'm lit.

heh and yes, I did get that from Manson's live album, I thought it sounded appropiate and appealing for this subject [^]


I back Parmenion up fully. Don't ever give in to useing a drug from peer pressure.  I think it should be out of sheer curiousity and acknowledgment of the reprecautions.  It should be your choice.


whew, all done

[]

[God]

Anteus, you sure ask a lot of questions in one post!

quote:I find OBE dangerious...
Do you claim it is not dangerious???
What am I missing out??? Who knows??? But what have YOU gained through OBE???
What do you call OBE??? Close to physical universe "walks" or astral walks? OBE starting from dreamstate???
"Will" or control seems to be illusions.
Information content of OBE like dreams does not seem to be different from normal dreams

No, I am not claiming it is not dangerous, there are obviously meangingfully harmful entites out there in the vast universe that have negative intentions...  Just as it is equally the same in our world today.
Well, I would answer you are missing out on a lot, but on the other hand, you would not be missing out a single bit if you have the mentality to not want to go through with it, why would it even matter then? Yes, would call dreams miniature OBEs, you are, after all, in a self-created virtual reality...
You see will and control and mere illusions..? Tell me, if I were a terrorist and in the middle of a crowd of a hundred people and then using the bombs attached to my chest, blew my self up, killing 75 people and wounding the 25 others... would that be an illusion..? I don't think so.  Will is will and it's the truth.  Some people see God as the will to do anything at all.
Finishing off your last sentence, one might draw the conclusion that dreams and OBE are not that much different at all.  (what is a "normal dream?")

quote:Billions, ...everyone who dies is freed from the confinements...
But why does anyone have a body? Why were you born, if it is a confinement???
"free spirit" what is it??? Where would you be free??? Do you know what you are writing about???
Why do you think it is milestone??? How do you know it is not virtual reality??? and it does not tell you what comes after death.

Yes, I agree that everyone does and is freed of their physical confinements, but I was speaking of Willful Conscious Projecting.
Well, speaking of my own personal beliefs, I think everyone is re-incarnated with a physical body because our intelligence/awarness/inner, higher-self/consciousness must have some sort of physical vehicle to accomodate for its existance in the physical universe.  I can't answer the meaning of life.... but you can give your own reason and purpse for existance. Yes, I know what I am talking about.. do you?  I nickname a free spirit one who can leave the constraints of their body, willfully.
I think it is a definant milestone because... well just think about all the effort and focus you must go though to do this without the aid of psychedelic drugs (cheats)! Well, it in a sense kind of is a virtual reality, but not all of the astral is... The real time zone is absolutely not a virtual reality, nor are the kingdoms/civilizations/communities in the astral personal virtual realities.  OF COURE IT TELLS YOU THAT THERE IS LIFE AFTER DEATH! Experiencing and OBE would prove that your awareness can operate external of its physical (temperary) counterpart.

[elevation]

anteus-  

quote: I would like to write about why it is NOT IMPORTANT.
It seems to make me tired.
It requires energy.. Why waste energy on this?
Information can be obtained otherwise: through meditation/dreams/people.
It may pose risk. Why to take risks???

What makes you think you are wasting energy?  This ain't Dragonball Z!  If there is any kind of effect that OBE has, it would definately be the elevation of peak energy levels!  You might as well call meditation and dreaming pointless if your gonna cap on willful OBEs like that. Willful OBE is nothing more than higher conscious awareness attained through a trance, from, none other than.... meditation!  If you think information from your dreams and Earth's people is enough, then your missing out!  You are, pretty much, IN a dream state when this occures. Just imagine the unfathomable wisdom which you could only taste from a conversation with a higher intellect!  The only limitation is your own imagination.

quote:There are many dimension/layers of the everyday world as well, just often it is not noticed.
I am afraid of that it is often about trying to running away from this world.. Sort of escapism...
There are other ways of learning than OBE.
I can remember who I am without OBE.
I dont't think it marks particular markstone of grows.
If you cannot communicate in every world, why would you be able in the astral...

That is definately your way of looking at it.  Your "escapism" is my adventure!  Of course there are other ways of learning, other than OBE!  No one ever said "OBE is your only means of learning!"  There will always be a YOU, you should already know that, but it can definately change you...  You are respectively entitled to you own opinions, but I must argure when you deny it marking a milestone in your spiritual growth...  There are probably only a few thousand people on this entire planet that have put themselves through the rigorous self dicipline, masterful skill practices, and constant focus to free themselves from the confinements of their body, no... the physical plane, itself!  You are locked in until you either die, or become a free spirit...   But these are all only my opinions... I hope they have some meaning. [8]

That was a nice disection of weagle's post, Leviiathan.  So do you believe that certain elements or particles can amplify, perhaps thoughts, or strength..?  I've heard a lot about crystal communication, but have never been exposed to the idea.

ahh, so many reasons, too many to say.  Just imagine the scientific breakthroughs that could (and secretly have) come out of this?  Imagine new scientific princibles, labled "Etherical Density Equations,"  or maybe a localized map of "zone 13, xrz999: 11-a" I cannot even begin to fathom the energetic/spiritual growth which developes from experience.  Travel to remote locations and seek answers to questions that no one on Earth can give you. Make new friends to go on adventures with, make enemies that you'd never want to lay eyes on again. The possibilies are endless.  It's up to you to decide why and how you are going to do it.[8]

Another question of mine, specifically to Robert bruce.. WHOO hOOOOohooo Robert Bruce...  is ther any one OUT THERE..?  In Astral Dynamics, toward the end of the book you go one to explain one of your experiences- the one where you have the pain in your right hip and you go to an astral world to seek help?  And you encounter this priest guy?  Well I was really curious and wondering, when he told you that YOU were the only who is able to rid the "curse" by finding out when it happened, why, and who did it.  HE said it was probably from a witch not of this world.  Well, did you ever fully recover?  Why would someone do such evil thing to you?  Did you remember who did it?

Also,  obviously, there IS much to fear in the astral... There ARE harmful elements and energies out there...  you go on later to say beware of harmful situations and stay clear of problems that could cause your energy body "damage".  If this is true (and proving it with the whole hip thing and psychic attacks) then why do you state in the beggining of the book, there is nothing to be scared of, nothing in the astral can possibly harm you...?  Well, just another contradicting question of mine, with all due respect.  I just want to learn from other people's experiences, since i'm not developed enough to explore them myself []

Maybe not on the topic of OBE's specifically, but I found the books "The Teaching's of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge," by Carlos Castaneda, "The message of the Sphinx: A Quest For The Hidden Legacy of Mankind," by  Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval, "Anti-gravity and The World Grid," by David H. Childress, and but of course "Astral Dynamics," by Robert Bruce all incredibly interesting books.  Also check out "Quest of The Beagle," by Charles Darwin, and books by Edgar Cayce and stuff, all great books. Another excellent book is "Doors of Perception: Heaven and Hell" but i forgot who it is by.

hmmm.... interesting theory.  That reminds me of Star Wars, when Luke gets his hand cut off by Dart Vader or whatever.. the energy (and hotness?) of the light sabor is so great that it just just cleanly slices  through matter with no problem.  SBH is such a mysterious occurence that we know so little about.

also wanted to point out again... it literally take HOURS for a corpse to  desentegrate in the whole, out of flames.  These are reported with MINUTES!!  now explain that one!

terrance and wildbank, your post made excellent sense.

"I see energy raising as allowing us to bridge the gap(s) between these so called bodies to the real point of consciousness that we are." -terrence

I agree also with that statement.  It was a really great thread!  I hope other people have learned as much as I did, through it's debates.

yes, I knew that, technically speaking, are we really are is but a point of consciuosness (or awareness) all along, but also I agree with the post that there is some sort of etheric density to you while in the lower astral and RTZ planes.  

I can't believe how popular this thread is.. heh

yeah, gerble king, I think I saw that experiment, too. On the Discovery channel I think it was.  It even presented ideas that chakras were respsonsible for summoning the amount of energy needed for this type of thing.  I find it very strange that, as you say, SHC is only reported in the U.S.  But then again, maybe we are the only ones who are intelligent enough to investigate the possibilities(heh, j/k).  Has anyone ever heard of an international SHC case?

Greytraveller-

1.) What is your describtion of the 3rd body?

2.) What differenciates soul and spirit?

OK first I'd like to say the entire reason for me making that specific title post is BECAUSE it seemed so challenging.  That would attract a lot of people, just like corperation attracting the public.... anywayz don't judge a book by it's cover. and pull the monkey out of your all's anal. (those that care more about my presentaion than my reason) heh, i think it's funny how personal some people can take some things... chill dudes go smoke a joint []

Now then, in Astral Dynamics, Bruce describes this second subtle body which the pure energy from the etheric/physical body generates.  He states you must generate this body by creating a sufficient amount of energy through his "tactile imaging," in order to create this body, which I have found, through the past 3 months and vigorious practice, to work extrememly well.  He even gives advise saying (paraphrasing) that if you do not "feel" certain body parts or areas "out" then you must generate more energy and concentration.

K now back to the original post.  If you are ONLY a single point of consciousness (or simply awareness) while out of body, with no "spirit," or "etheric matter" as a body, then why would it even be so necessary to "create" this second body, let alone get body parts "out"...?  I do accept when people describe ascending (or descending) into higher astral planes, that their form becomes more and more abstract and mental, even higher into the purely highest mental planes (where a body wouldn't be nessesary), for lack of a better describtion (someone help me?).  What I think is that there IS some sort of body to you in the LOWER (or simple/less?) planes.... why else would so much generation be needed?  But as your awareness changes and becomes higher and higher, the reality around you becomes more and more abstract into these mental planes.  If there IS etheric matter (pure energy) inside my physical body at waking state.. then it would seem logical to say that there IS an astral/spiritual/etheric body that you assume in the RTZ (real-time zone), which might I add is part of the physical universe... .. .just not.. in the physical. you see..? It is still "part" of the Universe.  Now in the Astral (existing at a higher level of vibration than the physical universe), i think it is a possibility  that you are merely a point of awareness, reflecting unto the astral your thoughts and perceptions, LESS an actual body that you assume. Again, I am open for anyone's thoughts that have also deeply considered MY thoughts and opinions...

yeah, person, that is more realistic

Glacius, heh heh...

uhh... wow, that is interesting.  I could see it possible... IF... there are even any "wars" or "battles" in the astral or higher mental levels...? heh, maybe in the RTZ..?

[8D] Thanks for the compliment, Shawn McCaffrey.  It's nice to see this post topic finally back on track to the subject I presented.  I'll post again later tonight because I gotta go help my mom cook or else..[B)] heh.. heh..   I will be as clear as possible.