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An Italian critic of the movie....

The Passion of the Christ. Directed by Mel Gibson. Starring James Caviezel, Monica Bellucci, Claudia Gerini and Maia Morgenstern.

I guess like most people who just saw Passion of the Christ, the first thing I thought as I left the theater was, "Wow, those Roman dudes really beat the snot out of that hippie! They must have hated that freaking hippie!"

Also, I guess I wondered why the hell the were beating up the hippie, and what the hippie's deal was. See, there's no context to Passion: just straight-up flesh-ripping violence porn. If you want to see a naked guy get whipped, flogged and nailed, and you live in a community with limited access to gay leather magazines, then this is really the movie for you.

It starts with Yoshua (in the subtitles they call him "Jesus," but he's supposed to be Jewish, not Puerto Rican, so the dialogue has him as "Yoshua") having a bad trip in the garden of his rich friend Gethsemane. Then-- and this is what makes the movie fun--Satan shows up.

Satan has gotta be everyone's favorite literary character. He rocks ... just ask everyone he's worked with, like Jimmy Page or Rob Halford or the RNC. So Satan shows up in the garden, and a snake crawls out of his pants. Seriously. And then Yoshua steps on the snake's head, setting up the generally queer thematics of the film.

Though, to be fair, Satan is played by a chick. But she's all made up to look like a dude, so I think she's supposed to be a dude. Anyway, she, or he, or maybe He, keeps showing up on the outskirts of the action, doing creepy things like cradling a midget in his/her/His arms. Because midgets are scary.

Or at least writer/director Mel Gibson must think so, because in another scene, Judas gets attacked by evil midgets. Why? I don't know. I guess it was cheaper than hiring actual demons.

Other than the cheap-butt "midgets as symbols of evil" bit, though, the special effects in this film are superb. When the Romans start whipping Yoshua with flesh-gouging, metal-tipped whips, you really see the flesh fly and the gouges appear. It couldn't look more real. It's incredibly disgusting, and if you have trouble sitting through, say, a Quentin Tarantino film or a KGB interrogation, then I wouldn't recommend you see Passion. But if you go for that sort of thing, well, this is your one chance to see it while pretending that you're engaging in piety.

On the other hand, it's gonna have to be pretend piety, because this is the most a-religious Christ movie ever. There's one line snipped from the Sermon on the Mount, two sentences from the last supper, and that's about it for the preaching of Jesus. There's no character development, no background and almost nothing from JC's words. Just lots and lots of beatings. Unless you already know who Jesus is, and have already decided to root for him, there's not gonna be much drama in this film, because the movie itself provides little reason to sympathize with the main character, other than the fact that he's getting his butt kicked for about an hour.

Of course, it's by Mel Gibson, who's basically known for making low-brow violence fests, so I guess it's no surprise, but this was advertised as a piece of Christian cinema, which it ain't.

It also isn't the anti-Semitic screed people had warned about. It's really no more anti-Semitic than the Gospels, and, in fact, it's considerably less anti-Semitic than the Gospel of John.

Actually, it's the Roman soldiers who come off as the most evil. The Jewish residents of Jerusalem are not univocal in their attitudes toward Jesus, and it's not like there's some homogenous group called "the Jews" who pick on him. The Italians, on the other hand, all seem like total bastards who really love torturing naked guys. So why aren't Italians all up in arms about how anti-Italic this movie is? As an Italian, I'd like to think that it's because Italians are the one ethnic group who thinks that being a hyper-sensitive whiner is lame. Then again, it's probably because most Italians are Christians, so they just plainly support this pro-Jesus stuff. Oh well.

So I don't quite get the controversy. We know Jesus gets offed, and considering the population of Jerusalem in 30 A.D., the choices for who offed him are (a) Jews or (b) Romans. In this film, the guilt goes both ways, though the Romans seem much nastier and less human about it.

Plus, pretty much every previous Jesus movie told the same story, wherein the Pharisees call for the death of Jesus. It's even this way in total hippie love-fest Jesus Christ Superstar. Why Mel's movie took a hit for this is an open question.

Of course, it's entirely likely that Mel's father's hardcore, vocal anti-Semitism has something to do with it. Mel himself has not been entirely clear on what his own attitude about this is, but he has refused to denounce his father's position, and when asked if he believed the Holocaust happened, he waffled quite a bit, not denying it, but holding back on how much of the standard story he believed.

So maybe Gibson's an anti-Semite. Who knows. But the film, not so much. On the other hand, it is sort of a pointless gore fest, and by the end, Jesus looks like Drippy McBloodspurt. Not a pretty sight, and I wouldn't take the kids.

In terms of aesthetics, the directing is cheesy, but competent. There's too much manipulative music during dramatic moments, and too much recourse to sudden slow-mo to emphasize a point, but I guess it's not supposed to be an art film. In fact, it comes off as an action film, and on that count, it's about as entertaining as any other film in the genre, and about as deep.

By JAMES DIGIOVANNA

I found this critics from an Italian journalist... I think it summarizes it well (though of course I prefer the movie "The life of Brian"!).

The Passion of the Christ. Directed by Mel Gibson. Starring James Caviezel, Monica Bellucci, Claudia Gerini and Maia Morgenstern.

I guess like most people who just saw Passion of the Christ, the first thing I thought as I left the theater was, "Wow, those Roman dudes really beat the snot out of that hippie! They must have hated that freaking hippie!"

Also, I guess I wondered why the hell the were beating up the hippie, and what the hippie's deal was. See, there's no context to Passion: just straight-up flesh-ripping violence porn. If you want to see a naked guy get whipped, flogged and nailed, and you live in a community with limited access to gay leather magazines, then this is really the movie for you.

It starts with Yoshua (in the subtitles they call him "Jesus," but he's supposed to be Jewish, not Puerto Rican, so the dialogue has him as "Yoshua") having a bad trip in the garden of his rich friend Gethsemane. Then-- and this is what makes the movie fun--Satan shows up.

Satan has gotta be everyone's favorite literary character. He rocks ... just ask everyone he's worked with, like Jimmy Page or Rob Halford or the RNC. So Satan shows up in the garden, and a snake crawls out of his pants. Seriously. And then Yoshua steps on the snake's head, setting up the generally queer thematics of the film.

Though, to be fair, Satan is played by a chick. But she's all made up to look like a dude, so I think she's supposed to be a dude. Anyway, she, or he, or maybe He, keeps showing up on the outskirts of the action, doing creepy things like cradling a midget in his/her/His arms. Because midgets are scary.

Or at least writer/director Mel Gibson must think so, because in another scene, Judas gets attacked by evil midgets. Why? I don't know. I guess it was cheaper than hiring actual demons.

Other than the cheap-butt "midgets as symbols of evil" bit, though, the special effects in this film are superb. When the Romans start whipping Yoshua with flesh-gouging, metal-tipped whips, you really see the flesh fly and the gouges appear. It couldn't look more real. It's incredibly disgusting, and if you have trouble sitting through, say, a Quentin Tarantino film or a KGB interrogation, then I wouldn't recommend you see Passion. But if you go for that sort of thing, well, this is your one chance to see it while pretending that you're engaging in piety.

On the other hand, it's gonna have to be pretend piety, because this is the most a-religious Christ movie ever. There's one line snipped from the Sermon on the Mount, two sentences from the last supper, and that's about it for the preaching of Jesus. There's no character development, no background and almost nothing from JC's words. Just lots and lots of beatings. Unless you already know who Jesus is, and have already decided to root for him, there's not gonna be much drama in this film, because the movie itself provides little reason to sympathize with the main character, other than the fact that he's getting his butt kicked for about an hour.

Of course, it's by Mel Gibson, who's basically known for making low-brow violence fests, so I guess it's no surprise, but this was advertised as a piece of Christian cinema, which it ain't.

It also isn't the anti-Semitic screed people had warned about. It's really no more anti-Semitic than the Gospels, and, in fact, it's considerably less anti-Semitic than the Gospel of John.

Actually, it's the Roman soldiers who come off as the most evil. The Jewish residents of Jerusalem are not univocal in their attitudes toward Jesus, and it's not like there's some homogenous group called "the Jews" who pick on him. The Italians, on the other hand, all seem like total bastards who really love torturing naked guys. So why aren't Italians all up in arms about how anti-Italic this movie is? As an Italian, I'd like to think that it's because Italians are the one ethnic group who thinks that being a hyper-sensitive whiner is lame. Then again, it's probably because most Italians are Christians, so they just plainly support this pro-Jesus stuff. Oh well.

So I don't quite get the controversy. We know Jesus gets offed, and considering the population of Jerusalem in 30 A.D., the choices for who offed him are (a) Jews or (b) Romans. In this film, the guilt goes both ways, though the Romans seem much nastier and less human about it.

Plus, pretty much every previous Jesus movie told the same story, wherein the Pharisees call for the death of Jesus. It's even this way in total hippie love-fest Jesus Christ Superstar. Why Mel's movie took a hit for this is an open question.

Of course, it's entirely likely that Mel's father's hardcore, vocal anti-Semitism has something to do with it. Mel himself has not been entirely clear on what his own attitude about this is, but he has refused to denounce his father's position, and when asked if he believed the Holocaust happened, he waffled quite a bit, not denying it, but holding back on how much of the standard story he believed.

So maybe Gibson's an anti-Semite. Who knows. But the film, not so much. On the other hand, it is sort of a pointless gore fest, and by the end, Jesus looks like Drippy McBloodspurt. Not a pretty sight, and I wouldn't take the kids.

In terms of aesthetics, the directing is cheesy, but competent. There's too much manipulative music during dramatic moments, and too much recourse to sudden slow-mo to emphasize a point, but I guess it's not supposed to be an art film. In fact, it comes off as an action film, and on that count, it's about as entertaining as any other film in the genre, and about as deep.

By JAMES DIGIOVANNA

Michael together with Rafael are angels apointed over the dreams, the dreams of the people. In Daniel, one of the two angels (I'm not sure which one) interpreted his dream(s)/vision(s) of the future.

Question: does Michael come and help everyone with his/her dreams?

question: did Michael help me too and in which dream?

question: (tricky) does he know the name I was given but that do not appear on any written document and that none really ever mentioned?

I guess you already had your part of questions for the day, so I do no expect you to answer these by tomorrow... Thanks for the FREE link and service to the world of Angels...

Good night!

Shaman - The dreamer [|)]

MS MY MAIN POINT WAS TO PROVE THAT YOUR GOD CHANNELING WAS A JOKE AND THAT IS ALL. I HAD ENOUGH PROOFS SHOWING IT WAS INDEED A BIG JOKE AS YOU CONTINUE WITH YOUR HUMOUR/JOKING ATTITUDE. IF YOU WERE CHANNELING GOD AS YOU WROTE YOU WOULD NOT HAVE EVEN HAD A NEED TO ANSWER MY CLAIM, AS YOU WOULD BE WELL ABOVE THAT LEVEL, AND FOR SURE GOD WOULD GUIDE YOU ON HOW NOT TO ADDRESS PEOPLE LIKE ME OR HOW TO ANSWER THEM. (now probably you will suddenly have a message from God for me, isn't it? that would go well right now).

HAVE A NICE DAY! []

(1) The texts in the Bible need interpretation all the time. Even if it is written "to be put to death", it is not written who is carrying out the sentence. I view things as God would take care of everything and of the sentence too. Now also to be put to death does not need to be a physical death, it could be a spiritual death where the person does not evolve to the upper spriritual plane, but rather stagnates at the same or lower level.

(2) I have also chosen texts from the Bible since the way MS expresses his channeling is very much the same, this is why I have brought back these texts, as they are quite similar in their form to the texts of MS. MS has added some more eastern views too such as the "lost of ego" to find God, together with the NDE view of Pure Love, which is also one of the eastern tradition which is reached by meditation. All what is in the Bible goes back to the same "do not do to others what you don't want others to do to you". It is also that same attitude that meditative enlightment (again in the east) reaches for. I see all Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed,... as enlighted people who had reached a higher spirituality and all of them chose their way to "transmit" (or "channel" if you prefer) their spiritual learning one way or another with different text, tradition, cults, practices...

(3) Let the one who never sinned throw the first stone. So you can wait quite a long to be lapidated, as new borns are pretty bad at throwing stones.... I do quote other things on different threats... but here I thought that the Old Testament would suit rather well to the situation. As I wrote in (1) : it all needs interpertation.

Kerrblur, you are having pleasure in mocking me...

My simple concern was (and stil is, even if I am going to stop debating about it) that on these forum, it is very easy to write anything and you will always have some people believing in that. It is like the aliens thing...

For my part, I am like St Thomas, who believes only in what he sees (or what he sens). I am rational, extremely rational. And so far on this whole forum with its thousands of posts, I haven't seen any evidence of anything, except the "law of the bla-bla-blah", to which I am hapily taking part ! in this actual moment.

So, can you view me here going around in this forum and being extremely skeptical of everything, being rational, being scientist,.... Who is burning, really? I am completely translucid and at most I get in hoter discussions only invovling politics rather than involving Religion or the paranormal... Haven't you noticed yet?  Because, also, after all, that is the only way you can go around in that kind of forum, it is not to get personnaly involved and not to take anything personnally.

No, MS I am not a fool to give you my email address... Do you think I am that dum?! I already get enought junk mail and viruses here. Didn't you have also a post asking how one can access the site as "anonymous"? Why did you ask that? Do you think I belong to the people who are most of them teenagers? Is that what you think I am and that you can address me and convince me in the same manner?

Don't worry, I will not take your "show" away from you, not steal your show or anything like that. I just a visitor here, passing by, not intending to take roots here or to impose anything on anyone.

LIfe is elsewhere, not on the web... life is there in the street, at home, at school, at work,... but not here. Here it is a virtual reality! only virtual....

SO long !

And by the way, I did not post anything directly on MS threat, but if you haven't noticed I opened a new threat about it. Originally my main point was to draw the attention of everyone that MS did in the past make jokes and as such (at least personnaly I view this as) it reduces his credibility.

As I said I will not interfer with his "channeling".

Deuteronomy: Chapter 13:

2 If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet,
or a dreamer of dreams--and he give thee a sign
or a wonder,

3 and the sign or the wonder come to pass,
whereof he spoke unto thee--saying:
'Let us go after other gods, which thou hast
not known, and let us serve them';

4 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of
that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams;
for the LORD your God putteth you to proof,
to know whether ye do love the LORD your God
with all your heart and with all your soul.

5 After the LORD your God shall ye walk, and
Him shall ye fear, and His commandments shall
ye keep, and unto His voice shall ye hearken,
and Him shall ye serve, and unto Him shall ye
cleave.

6 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams,
shall be put to death; because he hath spoken
perversion against the LORD your God, ...
... to draw thee aside out of the way which the
LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in.
So shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee.



So, I hope you are channeling God and not just your own self...

OK, accept my humble apologies!

I do not think anything.... I have emptied my mind of thoughts and criticisms and I will not interfer with your channeling or with anything anyone will post here anymore. I leave the space empty for you to fill it in. I will go back to my prophecies and leave the channeling for the "channelers". Everyone can believe anything, it is their right.
If someone wants a channeler and you present yourself as one, then that's fine with me, I will let you all be.


I do not need a channeler to speak with God, as everyone can pray in her/his heart and reach God and everyone can get signs from God.

Kemo She ne-emar be tirgum be loazit:

"If there is a prophet among you,
I, YHVH, make Myself known to him in a vision,
I speak with him in a dream" (Numbers 12:6)

"In a dream, a vision of the night,
when slumber falls on humans
as they sleep upon their bed,
He (God) uncovers human ears,
terrifies them with warning"
(job 33:15-16)

To All the righteous:
"God will guide you always
and satisfy your soul with sparkling flashes"
(Isaiah 58:11).

In the meanwhile people still post messages with questions to God for Mustardseed... they haven't noticed yet that channeling God was a joke...Eventhough Mustardseed you have openly admitted that, they haven't pay attention. Well, Mustardseed, I hope you won't stop posting, because they still need you to answer their questions to God. Keep up the good job, MS, it seems they really like it and they need you!

BTW, MS, I just came across the following:

One day a woman came to see Buddha with her dead child in her arms.
Grief-stricken, she had wandered from place to place, asking people
for medicine to restore him to life. As a last resort, she asked
Buddha if he could help her. "Yes", he said, "but you must first bring
me some MUSTARD SEED from a house in which there has never been a death".
Filled with hope, the woman went from door to door inquireing, but
no one could help her. Every house she entered had witnessed its share
of deaths. By the time she reached the end of the village, she had
awakened to the realization that sickness and death are inevitable.
After burying her son, she returned to the Buddha for spiritual
instruciton. "Only one law in the universe never changes", he explained
"that all things change and all things are impermanent".

Maybe this explains it all, why they need you... []

However, you have a very good tone when you "channel". One can see that you know your bible very good, the same periphrases, the same tone, the attitude,... quite impressive. It also shows how well you understand the way people view God, whether in the Bible (Old and New Testament) or in the Far East (Budhism, Induism,... meditation to reach oneness, one need to "lose" his/her "ego", that was a very smart reply !).

Anyhow, I always enjoy reading your posts!

But do you think I am of a joker more than you?

I never pretended channeling anyone (that is except you!). [][]

Shaman The Dreamer [|)]

Wow![:O]

Yes sure, Rhine Fraulein!

And I once had an israeli friend.... .. (ma ata omer ?!).

Salam Alekh, saidati!
Au revoir La Fille du Rhim!
En esperant que ce que tu ecris sera un peu moins farouche et plus sympa...

The Romans killed one Jew named Yehoshua (Jesus) some 2,000 years ago and still today people are talking about him.

The German killed 6 millions Jews and many more millions of other people (Russians, Communists, Handicaps,...) only 50 years ago and some people already forgot!

Live Israel! Live Palestine! Live the Jews ! Live the Palestinians! Live all those who have to fight for freedom!

And by the way, Rhine Girl, Palestine IS free, it is on the other side of the river Jordan, in Jordany, since Palestine was the whole area including Jordany. The west of the Jordan was given to the Jews and the right of the Jordan to the Arabs. Verstanden Zie? THe word Palestine itself comes from Phillistine, who has dissapeared long ago. Palestine was the entire area, before the Kingdom of Jordany was established, under British mandate.

Stop hating people!

Rhinegirl, you see the dust grain in the eye of the Israel, but you do not see the beam in yours.

The German put my Uncle in a working camp for more than 5 years when the German army enter Belgium and the Belgian Army surrendered after 2 weeks. And even so, we have forgiven the German. But you, you are not even Palestinian, and you do not Fogive anything to Israel, worse than that you are calling for the death of Israel and claiming you have nothing to do with Neo Nazism.

People who claim loudly "Death to an entire nation" sounds to me very extreme, very dangerous, very unsane, .. to say the least.

Jesus forgave to the persons who hurt him, the Jews forgave (but did not foget) the Nazis atrocities, and you cannot forgive Israel for something that was not even done to you. Have you been in Israel when a bus explodes? Have you lived in Israel during the wars of 67, 73 when all the Arab Nations around wanted to destroy it. What do you inderstand to the problem there? And what do you have to be involved in something that has nothing to do with you, especially that you know so little about it? You just find it a very convenient way to express the hatred that is inside you!

Libera me Domine!
De Morte Eterna! [!][!]

There can be spitiruality in anything you do, if it is not something really awfull such as murder. The thing is the way you view it and what brings you to do it. So there can be spirituality in sex, if it is viewed as a special relation with someone, as a way to express love, as a way to exchange (say) energy... Sexuality does not have to be separated and to become something in itself, like a cult. Secuality has to be viewed as a part of a special relation with someone. And as such it has to stay as something personal, not something that one will go and tell others "I had sex like that and like this" - that's the wrong way of viewing it. And like anything else in life it has to come with moderation - that is not too much but also to have enough. It has to come naturally and not to be forced. Sex is not only part of life, but it is the "source of biological life" (as Darwin sees: everything that goes with life is enjoyable and everything that goes against life is suffering). This in itself has a lot of spirituality, but of course one cannot have sex just to have children (as some religions suggest): one would have too many children and not enough sex. Some highly spiritual monks (e.g. buddhists) can live without and can actually live without many things, but this is going against Nature and I believe that Nature  is part of spirituality and that spirituality is 'a little' part of Nature. So that I view sex also as a part of spirituality, since one has to go "with" Nature (in my view) to reach higher spirituality. Only then one can try to "detach" itself from it, but firt one has to knwo it.

Surely "you are what you eat" sounds good, but not litteraly... if you eat pork... if you eat meat of horses, rats..? if you eat veggies...

But sure what you eat can make you feel better or worse.

There is a posting by Adrian "are you vegetarian" or something like that. Well I am veg. The think is that meat is heavy to digest and so for sure being a vegan can help a lot. Also dairy products are notorious for triggering alergies in people, either it is in the form of heavy mucus in the throat or really in the intestin (children can be so allergic to dairy products that they can have bleeding in the intestin, very scary!). I also avoid alcohool when I can, as it really changes your state of concisouness. Also today many animal are treated with hormones, so that when you eat them you get the hormones in one form or another. Also if an animal has suffered during its life or during its slaughtering (brutal slaughtering) then it produces also all kind hormones and these are also not so good to eat. Diet can defintely makes you fell better or worse.

The first thing that comes up to mind is "did you change anything in your diet, drinking, smoking, etc...?". There are many substances that can affect the  "state of mind" and can interfer with meditation and sleep. Are you more stressed or more relaxed, etc...? You have to ask yourself all kind of questions first. Are you taking medications?

The other thing is to try it at different moments of the days. Hypnogigic visions happen easily for me in the morning, after a dream when I wake up, before I even move an inch or open my eyes. So you might want to try that too. It of course also happen when falling asleep, but at that time I am more tired and will forget it as I am falling asleep. Also when relaxing and meditating you get these images/movies as you mentioned. THe details are that when you start concentrating on the object of meditation, your awareness shifts to other things (thoughts, feeling, noises, etc...) and then you have to bring your awareness back to the object of meditation (your breathing for example). The next stage is the hypnagogic state when you start having visions. These visions will happen as your awareness shifts from the object of concentration to wander to all kind of distractions. However, once you bring your awareness back to the object of meditation the visions vanish. Also if you reach full absorption with the object of concentration, you have passed the hypnagogic state and have reached a deeper level of meditation.

So if you wish to see visions, you need to let go and not concentrate too much. You need to be able to let go enough so that you do not reach full absorption and so that you do not bring your attention to your object of meditation too quickly. You need to be "absent minded" for a short moment for that to happen.

Maybe, you have much more controle now of your concentration while you meditate and your concentration is so high that you are not absent minded at any time any more.

I am not sure if what I wrote makes sens to you, but I hope it does.

I hope I could help.

Shaman The Dreamer  [|)]

It is just another Holywood movie that is trying to make a splash over, trying all the possible ways to be the greates hit... There is  no spirituality in the movie, nothing about the teaching of Christ. And Mel is trying hard to affect people by pouring out as much blood as he can. Mel would better keep on playing in movies such as "what women want", as a funy jerk, rather than trying to address some issues related to his pious (?) attitude. It looks as just another one of these "bloody movies", such as pulp fiction, etc...

So another person died because of religion... or because of the movie business..? How many died and were persecuted because of religion? How many ran away during the Reform and the Counter Reform? Why not make a movie of the martyr of St. Bartelmi being skinned off by the Catholic Church ? How many died because children and teenagers are trying to do the same as what they see in movies? Enough of these things!

Enough of blood being poured in the name of religion or in the name of movies? What is Mel trying to revive? It is time for violence to be abolished and time to clean up and make a fresh start.

All this, if it happened at all, happened 2,000 years ago, it is time to move on guys and gals! We are in the XXIst century, time to look into the future not into the dark and bloody past!

May the Light be you! and abolishes all violence on this planet! and on the screen!

The movie is produced by Mel Gibson who is a believer of the rather "old school" of Christianity. In the last half century many reforms have been made in the Vatican to try and find the truth about the Christ and the facts that really happened. The movie of Mel is not taking that into account, it is just going out in the way Mel sees things, not in the way the Vatican declared it sees things. It concentrates on physical atrocities, which at that time, 2000 years ago, where common money, especially in Europe more than in the Holy Land. THe movie is more of a Holywood thing more than anything else. It  is historically not accurate and has not much spirituality. One of the chief Rabis in Israel has asked the Vatican to publicly declared that the movie is not depicting the truth when showing that the Jews were responsible for his death. So there is this aspect also that is beginning to stirr some hot debates about that issue and what were the true historical facts. A movie that will make a lot of noise, not because it is a good one, but because it is reviving the old idea (which the Vatican declared wrong in the early 1960s) that the Jews were responsible for the Christ's death.

Hello Smooth,

During an unvolontary OBE I saw my deceased grand mother. That was very long ago, I went to sleep in my sister appartment. She put a bed in the balcony for me, it was a hot summer. I lay down to sleep, then (at the moment I thought I was dreaming) suddenly I felt the vibrations and golden light in my eyes. I started raising up obove my body (which was laying on the bed and which I could see and sens below me without turning my head). Then I started hovering toward the living room. My grand ma was sitting on the sofa, busy doing something that I cannot remember. It was so strange that I thought "this is how it must feel when you die". Then it all turned into a dream and that's the only part I remember. My grand ma was the same as I remembered her (in her old age) and the room was clearly lighted (eventhough it was night!).

In another case I fainted due to a low blood pressure, probably from dehydration. After I went to the bathroom in the morning I felt I was fainting. Then I found myself in a place like a well and I was looking up toward the opening. From there I could see several people looking down at me, like checking if I was OK. I could not see clearly their faces but they were deceased relatives caring for me. I knew that one of them was my grand father. Then I woke up and felt the cold floor of the bathroom on which I was laying.

During voluntary (controled) OBE I never met any deceased person, only in some of my dreams, either as a warning or just what seems to be "just like that".

Shaman, the dreamer [|)]

As to the stars in the sky, not particularly to the constellation of Casiopea (the famous "W" shape next to the little bear) or to the open star cluster Pleiades (part of the constellation Taurus), it is written in Kabbalah that all the stars in the sky have been given names and that to each one of them an angel has been assigned. That makes many, many entities in the astral. This goes up to 10^11 (100,000,000,000) stars per galaxy, and there are many galaxies in the Universe.... So, according to that source, the emptiness of space is full of angels everywhere. Which agrees with the "being of lights" that you described.

Chill,

I have taken 15 sec of my time as you suggested and hope these people will get better soon.

However, I did not know even they were ill/sick. Can you give us more details on their "conditions".

I want to draw your attention that "spring is in the air" and that for many people it is a very difficult period. It is at that time that many older people fall sick. It is also that time of the year when there is a change in the hormones and metabolism for most of us. This can be seen in Nature as the "mating season" starts. In short the level of "testosterone" increase and sudden changes in mood can occur. Cutting on Coffee and drinking herb theas will not help here, as it has to do with hormones mainly. ONe has to take it easy and try to relax. I feel all that on myself too, but in a few weeks all will be over as the body gets back to a ballance and adjusts to the transition winter-spring. Each season can be associated with some changes in the physical.

Winter, due to short day light can lead to "winter blues", depression.

Spring, change in hormones can induce sudden changes in the mood, explosive reactions, etc... WHen it is over, the body is full of energy for a new year.

Summer, the extra heat can make the person feel tired, though usually it is a good season

Fall Automn is a little like spring with a change of hormones that can lead to an unstable charactere/mood.

Hello Michael,

Thanks for sharing your trials and experience with us.

I have noticed that voluntary OBE are much different than spontaneous OBE. In one spontaneous OBE, as I went to sleep, I kind of woke-up like in a dream and started floating up above myself. Then started drifting in the house. The vision was very clear and precise. In two voluntary OBEs (the only 2 succesfull ones) I could barely see a thing and everything was fuzzy and turned into a dream. It seems that deep inside us we know exactly how to OBE everynight, but  if we try to do it consciously, then it is more like a mess, at least at the beginning. In spontaneous OBE and in (lucid and non lucid) dreams it is "normal", "natural" to fly and float, it goes all by itself. But in induced (voluntary) OBEs, it is much more difficult, it is like gravity is a part of our reality.

Your post will certainly help other people to "learn how to fly", including me I hope... thanks!

Shaman, the dreamer [|)]

Thanks Joyrex for sharing your experience with us.

From what I understood from the books I read, meditation therapy has to be supervised by a psychologist-therapist-meditator. Meditation cannot be carried out just like that all by itself. It is good for a start. But as one gets deeper into the unconscious part of him/herself, guidance is needed. One of the psychologist who wrote about it mentioned that at times it can be very painfull, as many "things" surface from the unconsious into our conscious mind. At this stage the meditator who wishes to heal him/herself needs advices from some advanced therapist. In the case that I read, the therapist is a Dr. in Psychology and a veteran meditator. That kind of person is obviously difficult to find. In the example that this author/therapist gives in his book, the patient at times start to cry and tears run down his/her cheeks as more and deeper emotions are surfacing his/her conscious mind. But eventually the patient is healed. And it actually takes of the order of years.

I believe of course that that kind of therapy is not for everyone as you mentioned, but it might be better when guidance is provided during all the stages of the healing process.

Hello Isr,

I got your message but due to an error with my browser I could not reply. Anyhow, in the book on OOBE of Bruce (Treaty on OOBE) the part that describes the transe state is

Vol.II, V.1.1., part 3,
pages starting 34 till page 41 included. I remember I read that the transe makes you feel the space around differently. It might have been in another book that I read that you feel like the space around you is expanding, but sure it is an effect of the transe. I have also felt something strange, but it is usually when I reach the vibrations, just before I "exit".

You can also check some books on meditation, there transe is described even in more details (depending on the books however).

It is most probably premonitory. All the details you gave are the same. You might want to check more details, such as "was the building he felt from the same as in your dreams?", etc...

Precognition happens quite often in dreams more than in any other ways, but since most of us forget our dreams, we actually lose quite a lot of information. You might want to get use to remember your dreams every morning and you might be surprised to discover how are indeed premonitory.

Recently some psychologist have come with a natural way to get rid of depression, much more effective than medication or conventional psychotherapy (psychoanalysis, etc...). These are psychologist who have wandered in the Far East and have learned to meditate. There are at least a few psychologists who use meditation as a therapy to treat many psychological conditions (such as depression, phobia, fears, ...) with much more sucess than with medication and conventional therapy. At this "price" meditation will for sure also lead you to OBE/AP, as OBE is a "by product" of meditation. So you should be able to say "good bye" to prosiac and all these chemicals, once you have started the practice of meditation. The only two names I have here of such  psychologists are:

Daniel Goleman (see the book corner forum at the bottom of the forum list on astral pulse, I  posted on that one).

&

Stephan Bodian (I think I also wrote a note in the astral library about that one).

There are other antidepressants which are more natural and less strong such as St John Wort plant and roots of Valerian. There are herbs that can be used and have been used by physcians (and are still used by many).