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while negs may have some influence on people, i don't think that every wrong turn a person makes is always from negs.  we should not always be blaming negs for our faults and bad things that happen in life.  blaming negs for everything bad is a lazy way of handling things... that is not taking responsibility for one's own actions, you are dumping all the blame on something outside of yourself. i think people must first look truthfully at themselves before concluding that the problem is neg-created.  sometimes being weakened by all these sinful things leads to more weakening simply because the person is weak to begin with, or too lazy or uncaring or too blind to what the consequences are to try to fight these vices and make changes in their lives.  perhaps most of the negs that we run across are simply just are own "inner demons" taking form.  i think people tend to use the neg excuse too much, so they don't have to work on themselves, and to deny that they have some inner problems that they have to deal with.  this is just my opinion, though.  

personally, it gives me the creeps to think that everything bad that happens and every bad feeling or thought i have is the result of some negs influencing me & my life... i don't think that's a very healthy way to live, thinking that you are constantly plagued by "demons".  it will never resolve anything, and make you constantly live in fear, and not face life and the truths about yourself.  i think it stunts spiritual growth.  we are human beings, we are not perfect, we are made up of good & bad... we can't be beings of unending positivity all the time!  i think that most of the time bad things happen because, well, that's just life.  lessons to learn, experiences to be had.  i'm not saying that there's no such thing as negs, but i think that they don't have that much power over our lives, and that they really don't have to bother working hard to make our lives hell... we do it to ourselves.  of course, there's always the special cases out there where negs might be totally harassing someone... but probably the majority of people's problems are of their own creation.

i think perhaps one of the problems christians have, like you stated above, is that what leads to their weaknesses and "neg problems" is that many (not all, but many!) of them are not spiritual except when they step foot in the church.  when they're not in church, they behave in ways that jesus would just not approve of, and they figure they can do what they want because jesus already bought their way into heaven by dying for their sins.  they can go ahead and sin, and then ask for jesus's forgiveness, thinking that as long as they accept jesus as their saviour and all that, that their sins are wiped clean.  they just create problems for themselves, though, in that they never want to really work on themselves.  the problem may not always be negs, but just sheer laziness... they're used to having jesus do all the work for them.  when you don't take care of a problem, well, most of the time it's naturally gonna get worse and worse.  all the prayers to jesus and all the warding off of negs is never going to cure the real source of the problem:  within the person.  if christians can start living more spiritually and start working on improving their inner selves, they may find that their "neg problems" will disappear.  why should they always ask jesus for forgiveness and turn around and do the same crap again?  what kind of relationship is that with jesus?  if we always do that to someone, how can they ever trust us to do the right thing, and take their pleas for forgiveness seriously?  what a slap in the face for jesus... he died for our sins, and so people just keep on sinning and not work toward deserving to go to heaven.  maybe christians need to stop thinking, "oh jesus loves me, he'll forgive me when i ask him to" and start thinking, "i want jesus to be proud of me and to have a trusting relationship with him, where not only do i have faith in him, but he can have faith in me to do the right thing, and follow his teachings."

considering how you are so familiar with all the universal laws, azaithoth, you seem to ignore the one that everyone is pretty familiar with... that which you give out will come back to you or something like that.  that is one, isn't it?  if you're gonna sit around and insult people and make assumptions about people, well, the lack of consideration is going to be given to you.  did you start this thread just to boost your own ego by putting people down?  i thought you magick people are supposed to let go of your egos.  i don't make assumptions about you and your people, why make assumptions about me?  you know nothing about me.  and where did you get your information about ufo's and all that?  people all over the world experience ufo's!

yay!  it sounds to me like it was most likely an actual OBE.  don't worry, i'm sure that this is just the first step toward more exciting adventures!  [8D]

um, aquarius, and year of the rabbit, as far as i know.

i love all kinds of music.... i can enjoy anything from just about any genre, but there are certain genres that i'm pretty ignorant about, mainly country & rap.  hhmmm... some of my all time faves are:  my bloody valentine, slowdive, cocteau twins, adorable, chapterhouse, the cranes, curve, stereolab, lush, laika, depeche mode, pet shop boys, (clan of) xymox, (*pant pant*), sade, bjork, nine inch nails, pink floyd, garbage, xmal deutschland, keiko matsui, the beatles, the doors, etc, etc... i could go on for quite a while.  music is very important in my life... couldn't live without it!!! []

one thing i've noticed is that azaithoth sounds awfully like that APOPHIS guy who was insulting me & my american stupidity a while back.
(though from a different location)

i've heard of that... i read about it in a homeopathy book.  sorry to say, i've never tried it.  perhaps i would if circumstances arose to where i would be made to try it, but haha i'm not gonna go out of my way to do it.  let us know, though how it goes when you try it, and if you notice any kinds of effects or anything.

so are the universal laws different according to each person?  or are they supposed to be all the same?  does it all really boil down to 12 laws for everyone?  i'm just wondering why there seems to be such differences in opinion on these laws.... i get all these differing views about what's uh, harmonious with the laws.  one spell will be fine with one person, but another one will say "no, no, no!  that's bad!"  will i end up making my own conclusions about what the laws are, or will i get my own results?  i guess that's a lot of what i'm trying to find out.

wow, i've spent all night looking at ghoststudy.com!  haha, it'll take me a few days to get through all the sites!  very interesting! [:O]

allanon, i think you came here searching for something, also, although you probably keep denying it to yourself.  you used to think like us, and i know that one day it'll all catch up to you again, all your intelligence and logic will keep whispering to you from the back of your mind (yeah i know, the devil's voice is what you say now), especially when you keep finding that what you've gotten yourself into is not making you feel fulfilled or happy or at peace.  i have compassion for you, because i had a friend who went through a similar "seeking" phase, where he turned to a religion he had much contempt for before, and then he later dropped out of it when he realized he was right in the first place...lol.  i wish you well in finding what you truly are looking for, and if you find that you need someone to talk to, come back here!  

thanks for sharing your experience, oldlad! [] and yes, my mind is boggled. []i wonder if there's a way to eventually confirm whether it was an invention of the mind, or the person's astral self, like maybe a way to talk to the person we're seeing, and give them something to remember when they wake up... not necessarily a remembrance of the experience, but maybe a symbol or something that will show up in their dreams or something.  like, when you communicate (or try to communicate) with them, send them a mental image of something, like a unicorn, for example, and see if they've had any dreams about a unicorn the next day.  or maybe repeat a phrase at them a bunch of times and see if they remember.  i just checked out a bunch more books on astral projection & OBE's (but unfortunately, my library doesn't currently have a copy of robert bruce's astral dynamics), so maybe i'll be able to find something about this somewhere.  if it turns out to be just an invention of my mind, oh well.  it was still interesting!  life is so weird, huh? []

yes, here in florida we've had a about a month or more of non-stop thunderstorms... at least two per day... my dogs freaked out every stinkin' day, too! [xx(]  the only good thing was, the weather was pretty cool... always in the seventies.  just recently the rash of thunderstorms finally ended, and now it's always hot as hell.

[i just want to know, because one person will say that certain spells are fine with the "universal laws", while another will tell me that these very same spells are not in accordance to the universal laws. it seems everyone has their own opinion.]

see what i mean?  the usual evasion.  sorry, guys i'm pretty stupid.  a newborn babe.  i can't figure out anything out for myself.  so please tell this retarded person what they are.  i'm not a magic practitioner, so i haven't really learned the laws, sorry.  i just want to know, because one person will say that certain spells are fine with the "universal laws", while another will tell me that these very same spells are not in accordance to the universal laws.  it seems everyone has their own opinion.  this is very confusing, because i would think "immutable universal laws" would not be based on a person's opinions!  i want to know what the true laws are!

it doesn't seem like the banning of goingslow is to the relief of "all other" members... it seems like it's mainly to the relief of those who believe very much in this pendulum/alien communication something-or-other.  there's been much objection to goingslow's banning, even from people who don't quite agree with his views.

yes, yes, please tell us what the universal laws are.  i've had some magick people telling me about how certain spells were "not inaccordance with the universal laws", but when i asked what they were, i got no answer, or the subject was changed.  i'd really love to know.  thanks!  []

i'm lost... what is the biblical significance of the porsche?  [] []

i don't have an answer for you, but i've been wondering the same thing myself, whenever i see my doggies snoozing away.  i hope someone will answer your question, because i'm interested, too! []

i wasn't even really seeing it as a segregation thing... i tend to visit all areas of the board, whether i know anything about the subject or not.  if the topics brought up are interesting, i read them & sometimes respond to them regardless of the subject area (like most of the time i get annoyed with prophecy/divination stuff, have become very disillusioned with magic, and very annoyed with the psychic self defense stuff, but i still visit to see if there's anything interesting that's popped up).  i don't want anyone to think that i want a christian section so that it'll be all out of my sight.  i just figured some christians here might like the idea, because it would give them a place to concentrate the topics that are relevant to them, and since non-christians have the choice of steering clear, or getting involved out of interest, there might be a reduction in religion bashing or something.  hahaha, i really did not think of it in terms of banishing all christians or christian subjects strictly to one area forever, to never annoy us non-christians again.  if the christians here like the idea of their own little area, i don't see why it should be ruled out.  but if the idea really offends a lot of people, then of course don't do it.  i just didn't see it in the way everyone is suggesting.

well, that's the problem... i know for sure it wasn't a lucid dream.  i've had many lucid dreams, and they were not anything like what i experienced.  i was afraid people would just pass this off as a just a dream, but i know in my heart that it wasn't.  it was too damned different from a dream.  and when i came back to my body, i felt pretty tripped out and shaken, and kinda nauseated, and it took a while before i felt normal again.  so if i didn't actually see my brother's astral self, perhaps my mind invented the scenario on the astral plane?

tao4mind, what is that picture of?

no experienced OBE'ers have anything to say about this?  nothing similar has ever happened?  was it all an invention of my mind, or did i really see my brother's astral self?  i found this really interesting, and was hoping to hear some various comments about it.

tenaciouis, whatever anyone wants to discuss, i don't mind... if i don't like the topic, i just ignore it.  i think allanon is searching for something with this question.  i think he is searching for something just by being in this forum.  so if it helps him to figure things out for himself and give him a new perspective on things, then great!  besides, since AP can be a pretty subjective thing, too, we could just as easily bicker over something about AP, or many of the other subjects here.  i mean, look at that whole scandal over mayatnik and the cult!  

anyway, i think jesus was a brilliant man, who had great messages for us all.  he had very important teachings, and i think that he's probably tearing his hair out in frustration in heaven or wherever over how the church has distorted his teachings, and how people kill each other over petty arguments over the interpretation of the bible.  he is a saviour in a way, along with many other good people who thought the same way as him.  anyone who can teach us valuable lessons about life is a saviour, in that they save us from despair, and from hurting ourselves and others, and promote harmony and compassion for others.  his message was of peace and love for all, and i'll bet he's chillin' in the astral planes with his buddies buddha and all those other holy people, having great conversations. [8D][]

on some earlier topic, i forget which one, someone suggested that there be a special section for christian subjects...  and someone suggested it be called "christian mysticism".  i thought this was a great idea.  is anything ever going to happen with that, i wonder.  it's high time.

as for consciousness... well i kinda believe that every living thing has one, whether it's a single cell creature, a blood cell running around in our veins, whatever.  just different kinds of consciousness.  so probably there is some sort of consciousness in the cells that make up a fetus (not necessarily the soul that will be inhabiting it soon), even before a brain develops or whatever.  

abortion:  i hate this subject.  everytime i get involved in it, it seems i always wind up sounding like a cold-hearted bad guy, and there really is no way state things to where you don't sound like one if you are pro-choice.  all i can say is that if it is made illegal, it won't stop abortions.  women who don't feel the same way as the pro-lifers will go to have illegal abortions, and might even resort to dangerous procedures.  it just means that we'll end up with two dead people... the mom and the baby.

i kinda agree with asunniespirit... a soul will find the way.  try, try again.  kinda what life is all about, i guess.

perhaps being aborted is part of that soul's experiences.... just as a grown person being murdered.  this doesn't make murder or abortion right, but people are always lecturing on about how we all agree to a certain time limit in our next life before we incarnate, and i guess supposedly we know how we're gonna die.  why would anyone soul choose to die in a fiery car crash?  or get decapitated and eaten by a serial killer, with their body parts kept as souvenirs and garments?  perhaps because in the end, what happens to our bodies really doesn't matter.  it's the experience, the lesson we were supposed to get out of it.  and if we choose to live as a fetus that soon gets aborted, then that seems like the choice that the mother makes is not really her choice.... it was preordained or something.  whew, this stuff is confusing.  so then the choices we make in our lives... are they really choices?

i'm not saying that i particularly believe this, i'm still pretty confused when it comes to this kinda stuff... just throwing this idea out there.  i have yet to figure out what to believe about anything.  

i tend to lean toward pro-choice, but at the same time there is a guilt over it because people act like i'm just a cold-hearted person with no regard for life.  but that is simply not true.. i have much regard for life.. i can't even get myself to kill bugs in my house without feeling bad.  i usually make every effort to catch it and put it outside.  and i know i'd feel bad if i aborted a fetus.  but then at the same time, i know i'd have what i'd feel is a justification... i wouldn't want to give the kid a life of not really being wanted because i have other self-centered concerns that i feel are important.  or give it up to adoption, when there are so many kids already waiting to be adopted, and infertile couples are mainly intent on having their own genetically-related kids.  it's so damned complicated.  i know i'm probably gonna regret saying all this stuff, 'cause i've probably ticked someone off, but like i said, i'm not sure what to think of all this.  it's mainly my train of thought at the moment, and not really my set-in-stone personal beliefs.  death is part of life, though, and whether it's a "justified" death, a horrible evil death, a natural death, or whatever, we know that we continue on in other realm, and that life really continues on and on.

shadowatcher, i agree with tenacious... you do sound much older than 13.  i was very surprised when i looked at your profile and found out you were only 13!  i thought you were probably older than me!  in fact, there are quite a few "kids" in here that sound quite mature.  don't undervalue your input here, just because you're young.  i've met kids with lots of wisdom and maturity, and i've also met much older people who were very immature and lacked any kind of wisdom, as if life has taught them nothing.  and we've all gotten emotional at some point or another, even if it doesn't always come out in our posts.  i had a bad start here... i was all frustrated to the point of crazy in my very first posts, and everyone thought i was being rude, though i really didn't mean to come off like that (guess the capital letters didn't help[:I]).  anyway, you'll be missed.  i hate to see anyone leave, especially the people who always put in great posts, like yourself.  but if you really need the break, go ahead.  but just come back whenever you feel like it! []