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I also achieved my first OBE "from scratch". In my case the missing component was faith that I could do it.

I have absolutely no paranormal or supernatural powers, and I remain VERY skeptical but open-minded when it comes to anything non-physical. However, I discovered that in some cases, including OBE, you need to believe in the possibility, and then validate it - not the other way around.

The price is $200 for the 22CD package, which is a good deal! Kicks Holosync's butt all the way []

Yeah. Entitling your topic as "Don't click" is a SURE way to stop people from clicking it.

Why don't you delete the topic yourself, instead of asking a moderator? See that garbage can icon on the topic? Yuzit.

I'm not well-versed in TMI. I'm equally versed in TMI, Holosync, Awakened Minds, and BWGEN

My personal opinion is that the Wave series are more valuable than anything out there, because they provide verbal guidance. They basically tell you what to do. With holosync - you basically slack around doing nothing thinking about various crap (unless you actually know how to meditate. In Hemi-Sync Gateway series you are actually doing the exercises of various sort. And this sort of training, in my opinion, is more valuable than mere binaural signals, which are used as auxiliar help during the excercises.

CRI states that "Monroe was mostly interested in finding combinations of frequencies that created groovy altered state experiences" - which is bovine excrement. The goal of Gateway series is to help you teach yourself about what you really are, and increase your self-awareness to the levels that are set by you. And the altered states of consciousness are just tools for that, but not the goal.

The bottom line is: if you need binaural help for your meditation sessions or OBE attempts, get Holosync or Awakened Minds. If you are interested in increased self-awareness and spiritual advancement, but aren't sure what its all about, I would recommend Gateway series.

I myself use a cross-breed between Holosync and Hemi-Sync that I created from scratch for myself. If you have fast connection and want to try it out, contact me and I'll share. Its 1 hour / 140Mb / 320kbps mp3.

By focusing on your breathing you are focusing on your physical body; you should be doing exactly the opposite. It is good to focus on your breathing initially, but by the time you get the vibes you shouldn't concentrate your attention on it.

I have probably said it 100 times by now, but I'll repeat it.

The technology of Holosync (as far as binaural signals go) is not in any way superior to TMI stuff, or any other related products out there. In fact, it is simpler. (It takes half hour of sound editing to create a DIY version of Holosync, but for Hemi-Sync stuff it would take days).

However, Holosync does work - it does guide brain into synchronization. But what makes Holosync work BETTER than other producs then? The actual driving force behind Holosync is not the technology - it is the writing skills of CRI writers. The purchaser of Holosync is bombarded with tons of followup "support letters" about how great it is, and how it will magically take your problems away and will make a super-being out of you. This has two effects: it makes the subject actually listen to this stuff; it also creates powerful placebo effect, so the subject actually believes that it DOES work, and thus changes do happen, even though they are not caused by the technology, but by the subject's belief.

With TMI, the approach is the following: try it and see if it works for you. The subject is not brainwashed into believing into magic effectiveness of the technology a-priori, so naturally, the subjects are less enthusiastic. And the enthusiasm, faith, and determination are very important factors in achieving the results.

What makes me annoyed though is their exagerrated claims that their stuff is "light years beyond" TMI, etc., which is simply NOT TRUE.

The bottom line is: Got cash? - get Holosync. No cash? - Get something else, and remember that you are not losing anything.

And by the way: the saying "If something is too good to be true, it probably is" is yet to fail.

The "industry standard" sources in the field are the following:

Books: (to be read in this order)
R. Bruce: Astral Dynamics
R. Monroe: "Journeys out of the body"
R. Monroe: "Far Journeys"
R. Monroe: "Ultimate Journey"

Most of the stuff you've got I haven't even heard of.

CDs:
Holosync: you've got that.
Hemi-Sync: Wave 1 (you might not need that if you have well established relaxation / trance technique)
Hemi-Sync: Wave 2-7 (if you've got money. optional)

Psychic Defense is not generally recommended unless you have reasons to believe you are experiencing psychic attacts / attacks by non-physical entities.

Can you meet other A.P.ers?
Yes, provided both parties have sufficient ability  - i.e. are able to induce OBE simultaneously and have enough control over their actions during OBE.

When you A.P. can other people (people not in A.P.) see you?
From the perspective of OBEer, sometimes they can see and interact with you, but the people themselves are not aware of any communication taking place.

What happens when you look in the mirror during A.P.?
I don't know. Get out and take a look for yourself.

When people are sleeping, Can they see A.P.ers in their dreams?
I don't know, but since, according to the experts, many people AP in their dreams, then why not? However, Monroe mentioned that he was unable to engage into such communication with sleeping people.

Can you talk to people who are not in A.P.?  
As I previously mentioned, you can "talk" to people that are awake, but they are not aware of the communication.

Also note that you went to sleep at around 1:30am, then woke up to do your prayers, and then proceeded to project. So the success might in part be attributed to the classical sleep deprivation technique that has been employed.

Or it could have been the Arabic yogurt...

<added> I got starred! </added>

Not an image but a cartoon
http://www.izvestia.ru/data/inauka/video/skazka.avi
64Mb / crappy quality / made in Soviet Union in 1979.
Best viewed in the dark.

The wolf is apparently some sort of astral being who is able to trascend into the physical (Locale 1), as well as phase out directly into equivalent of Locale 3 (the bull with jumping rope). He appears to employ a visualization technique (the door) for phasing - I should try that.

A little bit OT.

Actually, most people read several words simultaneously, not just one. The optimal way to read is several words at once. When I read ebooks, I make the font and browser width such that there are about 7 words per line, and I can perceive the whole line without moving my eyes. Then I can read without having to move my eyes left and right, and simply scan the page downwards. BTW another important related thing: when reading, it is important to keep your mouth muscles relaxed and not try to "verbalize" what you are reading. If you do that, prepare your reading speed to quadruple.

<rolls_eyes/>
You've gotta be $hitting me.


Sorry for the useless and potentially offensive posting.

I second no-leaf.
Too many forums - bad. (Personally, I feel there are about 2x as much forums as needed right now).
More than one off-topic forum - bad.
Forums that are not related to the common subject kernel - bad.

But then, of course, what the hell do I know?

I believe that one should not construct theories based on the lack of data.

OT:
Knowledge can be represented by two things: raw data and some hypothesis. If we have a lot of data, a mind can construct a concise hypothesis that "explains" this data, as well predicts new things. There may be many hypotheses that explain the data. In that case the simpler one is assumed, also known as Occam's Razor principle. However, if we have little data regarding something, it is preferable to keep it this way, since the constructed hypothesis is likely to be bloated, will have weak prediction properties, and will generally be WRONG, even though it may explain the existing data well.

That is why MY theory regarding the OBEs is the following: I DON'T KNOW how they work, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

By the way, a strong argument against "in your head" theory is presented in the following article (thanks to whoever posted the link) http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/whoswho/vanLommel.htm
According to this article, subjects preserved consciousness during NDEs even though they were temporarily brain-dead at the time.

Normally I try to contain myself, but right now I'm a bit overwhelmed by emotion, so here goes: WHAT A LOAD OF bovine excrement! I thought CRI was exagerrating their claims a bit, but this "hypnomusic" leaves everybody elese in the dust in that dept!

1. How is it ANY better than any of the other binaural packages out there? They claim it is "breakthrough", but they don't mention what makes it a breakthrough over the existing solutions. They mention "test results" - what test results? How many people were tested? Two? Were they the ones who are behind all this hypnomusic stuff?

2. Binaural beats can help the brain to tune to the desired NATURAL frequency, be it Alpha or Delta, and synchronize the hemispheres, helping you to achieve desired state of consciousness, but thats where it ends! No matter whether it is BWGEN, Hemi-Sync, or any of the other stuff out there.

WHEN will people realize that the binaural beats will not take care of their problems, will not remove their stress and tension, "revitalize" or give them energy, change their life, do their dishes, and fix the stuff around the house?!

Note to Frank. I'm not rambling against YOU, so don't take it personally by any means.

Geez welcome to the club. There are 3.5 people who don't have trouble recreating the experience.

The only thing you can do is concentrate on your relaxation and energy raising excercises and wait for the results to come.

Unfortunately, there is no sufficient info in this case to say for sure. There is also a phenomenon called Lucid Dream (LD), which usually begins upon realization of the self, and bears close resemblence to the AP - it might have been that.

Put one or two playing cards face up on the top of the shelf in your room (without looking of course), and don't forget to examine them next time you're out.

(btw there is a guy on alt.out-of-body who does the card "trick" on routinely basis, but the results never match with reality - does anybody know what might be causing this?)

P.S. I'm anything but experienced, so you can safely disregard everything I say.

Grizli, what gives you the right to judge the Moderator's actions IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE GOODDAMN POSTS? (sorry for shouting) This makes you no better than people who make judgements regarding the nature of OBE having no knowledge of the subject, doesn't it?

Do you want to "consider his opinions" while he offends you and your parents in sexual context?

The fact that you are asking questions in the forum indicates that you have already established appropriate theoretical background, right? Might I ask you which books have you read on the subject, and exactly what are you having problem with?

There are a lot of nice and experienced people here that will surely help you out, but asking supergeneralized questions is a bit... err... inappropriate. Its like asking "so, how do you do math?"

Me and a friend of mine recently argued regarding the law of the cause and effect (i.e. everything that happens is meant to happen), and the law of absolute justice, which is closely related to the Karma thing.

Here are my thoughts on the subject.

Suppose I put a dice on a table with 6 appearing on top. What's the cause of 6 appearing on top? Its my WILL. I put my will into it - which is the cause of the effect of 6 appearing on top.

Suppose I throw a dice on a table and get 6. What's the cause of that? There cause is attributed by many small factors - the exact position and velocity and spin of the dice, air friction, the irregularities of the table, etc. When many small factors attribute to the effect, we call that - randomness.

Our lives are ruled by both - the will of you and others and the chance of something randomly happening, determined by corresponding probabilities.
---

Suppose the law of absolute justice holds. Then, your karma increases the probability of the good things happening to you. This may or may not be so. However, the price for getting a good karma (be nice and all) is to let the others take advantage of you. Thus, you get bonked.

If, however, you are a bad bastard with bad karma, the fact that it insignificantly lowers the good probabilities (which may, or may not be true) is shadowed by the fact that you take from life everything you want - you rule the world around you.
---

Why should one lead a good life then? I tell you.
We come in this world to learn. Besides all, two important things to learn is to how to love and how to be happy. Learning to love things and people around you is the only way to attain happiness, even though you get bonked by them in return. If, on the other hand, you choose the other way of taking advantage of your life, people, and the world around you, in return you get satisfaction, but not happiness; but you learn how to hate in the process.
---

Is there a law of absolute justice? Do you get what you deserve? Does it happen in this life or others? In my opinion, there is no such law for two reasons:
1. There is no data to support such notion;
2. Why should such law exist in the first place? Why should anyone get what they deserve? How is it even possible to evaluate goodness of any action? What is the need for that? [this is the point where the Xtian fanactics step in and tell me about how G moves in mysterious ways and tell me to burn in hell]

In my opinion, people need reassurance that the fact they get bonked by this world will somehow be compensated in the afterlife - people WANT to beleive that, so they do.

Assuming that astral is the place we go after death, having learned how to love and be happy you will go far [exception: happy loving Christians get to hang out in their heaven at F25]. If all you know is how to hate - you risk being stuck in the lower astral planes. One may argue that this is exactly what the absolute justice is, but saying that would be a committing a fallacy, since the argument of absolute justice states that your judgement is determined by God and/or Karma according to your *actions*, while in the scenario I just described your judgement is determined by *you* - by your state of mind that you attained during the life on this planet.

"there are lots of articles written about epilepsy and OBE having a connection" Can you give me one or two links? I couldn't find any relevant info, apart from some anecdotal evidence.

However, here's quote from the top link returned by Google: "He [Professor Blanke] said there was no evidence to suggest that out-of-body experiences were linked to epilepsy. "


I'm not a neurologist, but I know a thing or two about logic.
Suppose that OBEs are caused by epilepsy. Then we have following refutation


OBE -> EPILEPSY (if a person OBE's he/she is epileptic)
~EPILEPTIC      (a person is not epileptic)
--------        //modus tollens
tf ~OBE         (therefore the person is unable to OBE)


However, since there are a lot of people that can OBE and are not epileptics, the original clause is false.

I have never encountered any material associating OBE with epilepsy.
There appears to be no correlation in either direction.

Epileptic seizures are accompanied by certain EEG profile, while OBEs are accompanied by brainwave states associated with trance/deep sleep. If there was any connection, it would be common knoweldege by now.

Dude!
Its the AUNT who has made the transition; the uncle is still at F1.

Also don't mind me. I'm just a local butt.

...which might, or might not be the case.