Messages

May the farce be with you.

Quite a few questions there

Let's start with a easy response to the "LD -> AP Conversion": http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/wild_vs_phasing-t2832.0.html;msg18784#msg18784

I'll get back to you on the other questions shortly.
Or someone else will.  

EDIT: Which stages are you referring to exactly? 

For learning to relax, try doing a progressive muscle relaxing technique.  Basically, you tense each muscle group for 5 - 10 second, then release it.  Tense the next group of muscles for the same duration and keep doing this until you've done all the muscles in your body.  You should be fairly relaxed by this point.
Also, try doing this from your head downwards.

~Ryan

Head Downwards? NO. That leaves your FEET as the last point of consciousness. No. Against everything I know and do. Don't do that.

Or do! That is the point.

Agree with PR's comment.

Don't worry about "vibrations". They either happen or they don't. Won't matter in the long run. Continue to experience and document. The signposts will become more clear as you proceed. The signposts will tell you where you are. Feel it. Sense it. Stay there and feel yourself to move. It will come.

Why does the etheric leave you drained? I would want an answer to that. I feel energized. Like I have been to the moon or to someplace new. It never gets old. It is always a challenge of will and imagination to hold myself there and appreciate the manipulations I can manage. What exactly is it you do there that leaves you "drained"? There is energy to feed off of there. There is energy to create for yourself. It does not "drain". It is YOU. Why would you drain you?

Portal. Cake is good but I'm still alive.

Xanth answered his own question. LOL.

I've always enjoyed crop circle phenomena. Whether it is human or not it is beautiful. After visiting that wonderful link and viewing the succession of circles, I am beginning to feel it is a form of true communication through a language of symbols. Duh...

Almost looks like hieroglyphics of a sort. Mayan or Inca language perhaps. Why not. Is it a warning? Is it a forecast of DOOM?

I've wondered of these things for so many years hoping for answers. My intuition tells me these are signs of hope; of impending change. Whether they are of human origin or alien, I think the symbolism would be of a more terrifying nature if it were of impending doom. These signs seem to convey more of a peaceful connotation. A message of hope?

The_One -

This is a great question for someone starting out. It is also a great question for an adept. My experience allows me to know the difference now but it took some time for me to be convinced. I never doubted my experiences as being "real". I had to expand my definition of what  "real" IS.
The Astral "feels real". There is some sort of atmosphere that is tangible. In the Astral you get the feeling you are part of something that is not in your control. In the Etheric environment there is a greater sense of control of what is happening around you. I wouldn't call it "dingy", per se, but it does not have the sense of LIFE that the Astral "realm" provides. It is ALL "real" but I think it is how you can perceive it that makes a difference.

Did I make sense? Been up toooo long.

When I was 18 I woulda swore I could kick anyones butt. A real tough guy (until I was proved wrong one day).

Be their Grey Christ.

What is a "new soul" anyway?

I think that button has already been pushed some time ago. Do you want someone to push it again? North Korea might have a happy button pusher. Or BP. Or...

This is self destruction in slooo-moooooooo.

Yes Stookie, I like that. It is well put. I have quite a few books which discuss meditation, all from different religious and philosophical perspectives. They all agree.

'Tis a thing of beauty, the mind, when unfettered by daily trappings and clutter. It pushes forth like a golden blossom from the fertile source, shading the ego in its brilliance. The light of day is dimmed as illumination dawns across the endless horizons. - JMK

Agreed, it helps. I like watching the dreamy images start up, getting caught up and pulling myself out just before I lose control then going back again and repeating until I give in and enter full sleep. Of course that is not when I am intending to project, but just before I give myself up to sleep. That practice is what has led me to agree with the phasing concept. "Phasing" just doesn't seem to work for me. That trance state is just a heartbeat away from full release and.

D1git4l  -  "And as for the pivot focus points I have an idea of what you're talking about but once you started saying "f1/f2", "3-10", "f10, etc. I honestly have to say that you completely lost me so I'm going to have to work on those (good thing summer vacation just started because now I have all the time in the world)."

I always get lost there too and I've been doing this for thirty years. While you won't hear me talking about focus/phase/levels I do recommend learning that information. It will help you communicate here . The comment on journaling is crucial. I believe journaling has helped solidify my memories of experiences, what works, what doesn't...

i lay exactly like i sleep

At a 38 degree angle?

Nickspry-
I like the comment about not positioning yourself how you would sleep. Key idea. Sweet.

You either will or won't based upon the mental conditions set by yourself, I don't see how luck has anything to do with it.

What I was getting at, but, only from the standpoint that luck WON'T do it. I'm sure D1git4l knows that though, right?

Just the fact you are here means you are open to the idea. That will help you be successful. Not without patience and perseverance though. Practice is key. Knowledge doesn't hurt either. And hey, if your lucky...

OK, I suppose I came off kind of cocky, which wasn't my intention. I was trying to relate what Frank's methods are all about.

I don't mean to knock any methods, because like you said, it's different paths to the same thing. But I think the word I'm looking for is "practical". I believe that's what Frank was getting at, is making AP a very practical thing, especially for people that are turned off by magick and new-agey things. And I am a very practical, simple person, which is why his methods worked so well for me.

While external "ritual" things like candles, incense, places, times, incantations, positions, crystals, etc, have their place for certain folks, Frank found them unnecessary (myself as well). You have it all within yourself, and can do it without anything else. AP can be a practical thing.

That doesn't mean it can't still have a "magical" air about it. It can still rip everything you know about reality into pieces and give you a fresh, awe-inspiring change of perspective. What you experience is the major importance, not the method of attaining it.

Nah, didn't find you "cocky", not really. I actually appreciate cocky. My wife accuses me of that all the time.

Your right. Practical is where it's at. The "external "ritual" things like candles, incense, places, times, incantations, positions, crystals, etc" comment tells me something though. I'm not talking about Wicca, not that there's anything wrong with that. Never used any gadgetry or gimmickry in my life. Don't need too. And, that wasn't my point anyway. I think perhaps personalreality may understand where I'm coming from. Astral projection IS "all about performing ritual in your mind alone". There is just so much more possibilities and WORK that can be of benefit and there are traditions which have been around for a long time that are available to accompany the process. I'm not talking so much to the major posters here who apparently know their stuff, Stookie of course included. Actually I was hopin for more about my kimono comment than anything else at this point.

PR - heard of "Instant Magick", never read it. I'll take a look. I'm a Golden Dawn die hard. You know, the Crowley crowd. That is how I was raised. It has benefited me in more ways than I could explain. I've always seen some of the more recent (1970's and on) AP writers as lacking in true "practicality" though. Methods are taught and exploration is encouraged. It all seems more like enticement though. There is the "practical" side which is seldom addressed. That "ritual" is what allows you access to experiences unlike talking to "ghosts". How you can cause wondrous change in your life. Change that impacts your distant future(s).

All this starts though with proper meditation. That is the point of this thread, isn't it? Proper meditation. As I posited earlier -
"A great explanation of proper meditation would be to divulge what can actually BE accomplished with the process and so further encourage the initiate to pursue self-fulfillment."

PS> I think I convinced my mother to become a member and post. LOL...

I have to lay on my back with my hands at my sides, but not touching my torso, and my legs spread about 2 feet apart.

I can't project if there is a blanket touching me, but i can project when i'm under a blanket up to my neck.

Strange, your comment about the blanket. I absolutely cannot stand to have a blanket or anything over my toes. A blanket or comforter pressing down on my toes drives me nuts and consumes all my attention. It has been that way for thirty years and I cannot change it despite many attempts.
I guess you could say I project with "cold feet".

LOL. Well good, we do both understand each other. It is unfortunate you will miss out on the "magic" of it. But we all have our paths. As I pointed out about my opinion of Frank, some just aren't aware of what their Great Work is. I will not make assumptions about you Xanth. Stick to your guns but despite your stance, "all this stuff we do" IS Magick. It can and never will be anything else.

I won't speak of it again unless asked. Too bad. I will try to understand your viewpoint better though.

So first off I'd like to say that I'm new and what's up!

I've been trying for a long time now to teach myself to astral project (without any luck of course) and am excited to have found this website! I haven't really browsed through everything yet but so far I really like the look of things and hopefully I'll find something that might help me out!

So if anyone has any suggestions on anything it would be awesome if you could point me in the right direction! I'm always open to new ideas and experiences.

Thanks and I'll see ya around!

Yes I am glad you are here. What they said. Read up and post.

Question - why did you say "(without any luck of course)"? I think that will be a great place for you to start!

I've found it doesn't work to try it holding the genitals either. Too distracting, comfortable, but distracting. Don't be distracted by your body - that means something different for pretty much everyone.

There is a lot of wacky and overly-complicated (and just plain wrong) stuff out there that can really mystify simple concepts. For a beginner in AP (like a lot here), Frank tried to make this as straight forward and realistic as possible. I don't think you really have to have symbolic things to get a feeling of devotion and awe (spiritual-ness), or whatever-feeling that a particular ritual is attempting to invoke.

But if someone is more comfortable with rituals and invoking and evoking, go for it. I personally don't like the way I look in a hooded-robe.

How do you look in silk stockings and a kimono?

Sorry but once again someone is right AND wrong at the same time. Stookie, Astral Projection IS a ritual. It has really nothing and EVERYTHING to do with invoking and evoking. That in its very nature IS the process. I'm really surprised you would say such a thing. I have read many of your posts and wouldn't have thought it of you.

Xanth, like I said, we're not talking Harry Potter here. Sorry, no insult intended but if you look up "Magick", spelled with a "K" at the end and not "magic", without the "K", you will find definitions that might suit your taste or at least explain what I am talking about.

Astral projection is more than flyin around trippin out on chit, talkin to strange multicolored and sparkly folk who don't know what your meaning half the time. I know you know that. There are actual feats of accomplishment that impact this physical plane which have profound benefits. Meaning - you can learn and grow spiritually AND as a human being at the same time from the experiences you have through "phasing" or "meditation" or "OBE" or "traveling", etc. You can literally impact your future and the future of your loved ones by learning to manipulate the forces of the astral. It isn't DisneyLand for Gadz sake. There is purpose for the gift to travel. That IS the Magick. It has nothing at all to do with hooded persons. It has nothing to do with secret societies. It has nothing to do with the "Occult" except that is exactly what it is for the majority of society - OCCULT (hidden).

Why does semantics come to play in so many discussions when we all essentially agree? Different sources, same destination.

Xanth - You said
"My ultimate goal throughout all this is to remove the "great mystery out of existence"."

That IS Magick.

Some comfort is required. Too comfortable and you may sleep. Too uncomfortable and you may be distracted by your body.

Put yourself in a position that allows you to breathe unobstructed. You should be free of distractions caused by your body. I have heard that laying on your back with your forearms perpendicular to your body creates enough distraction to keep your consciousness aware but I have never used that method.

I have never felt it necessary to hold yourself in any "hand/finger/body positions", really, why would you? The process has to do with your mind, not your body and that is the point here I think. There are varying opinions though and most are correct because it has to do with YOUR capabilities and what eventually works best for you.

I prefer comfort, either reclined or laying on my back. I do not lay on my sides or stomach. I do not sit unless supported. I once had a very large bean bag which worked especially well.

ENJOY!