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Hey Dark_Phoenix,
I'm willing to try anything at this point.  I have attempted to fly.  I could feel/visualize myself floating upwards inside of a long tunnel.  I have also visualized myself floating up near the ceiling and I can even visualize myself standing up near my door.. while i'm physically laying down on the bed.  (Which Robert Bruce says is difficult to do)

I thought maybe I was trying to hard.  But I tried Zarklon's advice last night, and just relaxed.  Relaxing caused more pain in my arms.  I can ignore it.. but I think it is effecting my abilities to concentrate more.  

I just don't know what else I can do.  [V]

The more and more I go through this, the more I am starting to think you are right Dark_Phoenix.  I think a lot of people can get stuck in certain places and have a difficult time figuring a way out.  I'm starting to come to the conclusion that i'm one of them.  (Right now, anyway)

Graupel, I am sorry to hear you are having difficulties.  Really, I fully understand.. because I am going through the same thing.  I started this thread 2 nights ago, because I entered paralysis and couldn't get out.  Then the pain started.

I started meditating at 6:30pm last night, and never came out of paralysis until 11:30pm.  I couldn't be further from telling the truth.  During this time, I was very relaxed, at first.. and then the pain in my arms started again.  It feels like I have nails pounded in my elbow joints.  And it throbs.  This only occurs when I enter deep paralysis.

After this point, I am stuck here.  I can leave at any time if I start moving my fingers and toes.  (Which I am able to do) and then I can slowly start lifting my limbs.  But I stay in this state, because many of you have suggested it is borderline OBE.  But I can't get out.  I am starting to get a little frustrated..

I put everything I had in to the ROPE technique.  I attempted to relax and just focus on nothing.  (Like Zarklon suggested)  I also tried focusing on my body and 3rd eye.  I tried using a ladder... the interesting part is how I can actually feel results for a brief period of time, but then I lose the visualization.  It's like, I only get 5-10 seconds of "good" visualization.

Does anybody know what is happening?  Why the horrible pain in my arms?  Why am I stuck here for hours?  Is it impossible for me to do this?  I have been to a hypnotist before, and all his techniques never worked on me.  I can't help wonder if i'm the type of person that can't do this because of that?

Any feedback or suggestions will greatly help me out.  As well as others in this thread.  Thanks guys.  It's greatly appreciated.

Greetings NecroGod!
Funny thing.. I just created a post about this.. You can read it here:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9376

My problem is trying to progress from the Paralysis state.  I get stuck there.  I can usually break free physically, but not astrally.  It's a very confusing and new state indeed.

In answer to your question about getting BACK to it.  The first step is realizing there is nothing to be afraid of.  This was my first problem.. because I often felt the "presence" of very strange things around me.. and now I wish them away when I reach the paralysis state.  At least for me, they obey.  (Whatever 'they' are)

Basically what I do is fall asleep while staying awake.  This is actually pretty easy for me... I just focus on the blackness in front of me and think of absolutely nothing.  Occasionally I will do breathing techniques, where I breathe in Pure Postive White air.. and breathe out a Bright Negative Red air.  Then I just occupy myself with thoughts of nothing while my body falls asleep.  After a while, (you wont realize it) your body shuts down.  

Then from here, you are stuck in the "energy" body, just between the physical and the astral.  This part sucks.  lol  This is where I am having problems.  You may want to read my thread so you can get an idea what i'm personally going through.  It may help!

It sounds like you are experiencing some pretty cool things.  Keep at it, you will definitely get there!

Hey Zarklon!
Thank you for the valuable advice.  You just hit it on the head when you said it feels like your bodies are "overlayed" per se.  There were many times it felt like there were two of me right on top of each other.. tied together.  That's why it felt like I had another hand laying there when I broke paralysis by moving my right arm physically.

So you are saying, you get bad results when you relax and focus on the body, where as, relaxing and just keeping my mind quiet should yield better results?  I guess it's something I should experiment with.  I'm hoping, now that I have reached this deep paralysis state, that it will be increasingly easier to get back to it in the future.

I mean, I do want this to occur right?  Everything I have been reading seems to suggest that this is borderline astral projection!

Oh hey Zarklon!
I actually DID read your post.. and I tried the things you suggested.  First, I was trying to roll out.. the only thing thrasing my arms did was get me to snap out of paralysis and get up physically.  I think your technique will work very well (to get out) if my focus is a little better.

I wonder how many other people have problems in this state.

LOL, I hope the "man this is getting irritating" part wasn't directed at me!  [B)]  But I will keep working at the visualization.  I don't think people realize how much work is involved when trying to do this.  It's amazing.

I hope your girlfriend is ok Dark_Phoenix.

But you aren't actually supposed to "see" it?

Thanks for the input Dark_Phoenix!  Maybe you are right.. doing some warmup exercises and stretching may release some tension.  I guess I need to keep practicing.. it will come.  It has to!

Heya Huwie!  This is the closest I have come since the first time I got "vibrations".  This was a full paralysis state, and it's quite funny, because all though you aren't supposed to move.. you somehow know.  This was verified when 2 hours passed, I decided it was time to throw the towel in for the night... and I couldn't move.  But after trying real hard, I was able to pull my right arm up, then my left arm, and sit up.  When I stood up, I almost fell over.. my legs buckled... oops.. I should probably pace myself next time!

That dang ROPE technique.  I wish there was something I could do to increase my tactile imaging skills.

Getting back pains checked out is always important.  I was born with a plethora of back problems.. and I found I am extremely uncomfortable in the "sitting up" position.  (Unless I manage to sit in a nice comfy lazy boy recliner of some sort.. WITH a headrest)

Other than that, I just lay on my back in bed.  I found this is the best solution for me.  Another interesting thing to try is a hammock.  Man, that's instant trance for me!

Hey Nagual!
I like your signature!  lol
Yea, I don't think I wasted my time.  It was a very interesting experience.. I got a lot further this time ever since the first time I reached vibrations.  Because of all the reading i've done, I understand what paralysis is and why it's happening, so i'm not scared.

But I have a problem with the Tactile Imaging.  It's not very easy for me to imagine being in a void while climbing a rope I can't see.  My problem is how easy it for me to actually see the rope, etc.  I gave everything I have in to using the ROPE, and it's just very difficult.

I read a short passage from Robert Bruce in his Treatise, and he says "physical pain" can occur if you are exerting pressure on your astral body, but your chakras aren't active or energy blockage.  He used the stomache as an example.. depending on what you eat, if it hurts there.. you are kind of "tied" down to the physical body until you do energy work.  But this was in my arms up in the biceps.. I don't lift weights or anything like that.. strange..

Hi James,
I would like to thank you for posting this bit of information.  You know it's funny, just yesterday I was absolutely fine with all of this until I read a very large thread in the Astral Experiences forum about really bad stuff going down.  

I would like to point out, (to anyone who hasn't read that thread), that is a very interesting thread, well thought out, highly subjective (which is apparent) and one of the most mature debated subjects I have ever seen on the internet.  There are truly some amazing mature people here on these boards.  However, I would highly recommend straying away from this thread if you are afraid of "negative" things happening to you in the Astral Realm, because it goes pretty deep in to that.  While I am happy I read the thread, I was also a little disturbed and it effected my Astral Training pretty badly.  I wont go in to how bad.. but i'm starting to learn just how powerful your subconscious can be.

It is my belief that many of the individuals in that thread have focused a lot of energy (whether they know it or not) on entering questionable astral planes.  This is their path, and they walk it with the utmost bravery and courage to find answers for themselves.  Whether or not it is the truth, we will probably never know.

Basically, what i'm trying to say is.. thank you for posting this info for me James.  While I am not a "messiah-type" follower of Robert Bruce, I am a big fan of his writing and intriqued (to say the least) with his experiences.  Although he doesn't want recognition, he deserves a lot in regards to "having been there and done that".  When he says the astral realm is safe and that trouble can easily be avoided, that means a lot for me during this time of training.  Training is a lot of work, and the last thing I need is negative spiritual "beliefs" when I haven't experienced it for myself first-hand yet.

Robert, if you are reading this... I think it would be VERY important for you to touch base on this in your Treatise like you did with the book.  I haven't bought the book yet, but i'm putting an order in for a signed one tomorrow.  But for newcomers, (like me) who have ventured in to articles such as the Treatise, basically start-out with that as a model for learning and experiencing Astral Projections/OBE's first hand.  While you touched "briefly" on good planes bad planes in the Treatise, it wasn't very detailed like the passage from your book, and something like that is all I need to calm my fears.

I now feel more spiritually positive and energetic, just reading that passage.  Thanks again James!

Heya m0d0!
I added you to my MSN messenger list!
I look forward to talking to you online!

Psi balls eh?  I haven't read much about them.  Well, yet.  I'm trying to focus on this meditation stuff first.  Baby steps you know.

[^]

Haha!  A bear suit!  []
This thread as turned in to the Huwie/Dragen/m0d0 thread.  It has been flagged as a "hot forum" because of all the posts.  But I think if people read it, they would be bored with it!  lol  [B)]

Last night, I attempted to project.. but it didn't work well and I ended up falling asleep.  I was in the middle of having sporatic dreams, when I woke up in the middle of the night.. just enough to slip into consciousness.  My body was asleep just minutes after.  Pretty simple that was!  But after countless attempts to use the ROPE technique, or my LADDER variation I got absolutely no-where.

I must admit, i'm feeling really frustrated.  I don't think i'll give up, but seeing some kind of results or progress would be nice.

Oh, Huwie, I saw you added me to your MSN Messenger list and it asked me to add you to mine.  So I should see you soon!

LOL Huwie!  You sound overly excited again!  I thought you were going to take it easy so you can lower the anxiety?  []

I can't blame you though.. I feel the same way!
As for your hand locations, I have found that my hands cannot, in any way be touching each other or be "too close" to one another.  If they are touching, the heat from each hand distracts me, and it can cause you to sweat over time.  

I will either have my hands at my sides, or I will put them on my chest, approximately 2 inches from each other.  

Works great!  Am I crazy?  I think i'm crazy.  The voices try to convince me that i'm not.. but I know I am.  Or is it the other way around?  

[]

Yep, you're right.  We do have our whole lives.  That trance state is a big accomplishment in my book.  And it does bring you a sense of peace and weightlessness.  In this state, you can focus on developing your Chakras capabilities.. which we all know is incredibly important!

I think it will be one of those things, where you just "know" it's time to do it.  It has to come natural!

I wish you the best of luck Huwie.. if you do get out before me.. give me a hand and yank me out will ya?  []

Hey Huwie!
Yep, you use what works best for you.  I just posted some ideas if there is anybody out there who is having troubles with the ROPE technique.  Who knows, it may just work!  But it's funny how many of us go through the same things.  Just like you, I have been overly "keen" and tried rushing (or tried too hard) to project ever since that first time.  

So here is what i'm doing to take the "pressure" off.  I want to project, that is my ultimate goal.  But right now, everything starts with a trance state.  I just want to relax.. and get in to the trance state.  That's my goal.  The projection is a secondary thing... if I have the capability to do it, then i'll sure try, but not expect anything.  I just want to maintain that trance.  Robert Bruce even recommends getting used to entering this state and maintaining it.

Entering that state of mind has been a load off my chest.  I feel like I can meditate better now that I am strictly focusing on energy, relaxation, and trance.  With the "expectation" and overwhelming "desire" to project being out of the picture.. you can focus on the most important part... meditation and relaxation.. and if I have time.. i'll toss in the projection!

Remember, Robert Bruce even stated relaxation and trance is the SECRET to this whole thing.  I think many of us try and skip steps on that high stairway!

Hey Huwie and M0d0!
The "Astral Pub" sounds like a great idea!  It looks like we have a goal now don't we?!  And don't you worry, the tab is on me!

Just a quick little follow-up about the ROPE technique, since this thread is focusing on it quite a bit.  (No pun intended, HAR!)  Ok that was lame.. lol, but I am still having a hard time with the rope technique.. and I suddenly came up with the idea to "borrow" that concept and I used a LADDER instead of a rope.  For me, this has helped tremendously.  

While this concept is still new, it seems to yield the same results as the rope, but it works better for me.  I think I do better climbing a huge extended ladder in pitch black, then trying to climb a rope.  I can "feel" the metal and the footsteps and "hear" the creeking of the ladder as I climb.  I think it's working very well.. maybe you guys could try it and see if it works as well or better?

Cheers!

Based on what i've read, Hemi-Sync takes two "out of phase" sounds from each other and they play them (or many of them, depending on the sound) in different ears.  This causes the brain to figure out a solution to the two sounds so it will create a 3rd "clock pulse" which stimulates consciousness.

I listened to a few of the cd's, and it's very relaxing.  The "strange" sounds they use are actually static in nature, with some other white-noise effects.  But on top of that, they lay down a nice flowing stream of water and some musical instruments.  It's actually quite nice.

I didn't experience anything out of the ordinary.  And i'm not sure I noticed any significant improvements.. but it may take time, so I can't say for sure.  I wasn't sure if any of you got good results.

The one thing that is nice, is the sound keeps you from hearing minor distractions around you.  But I also think this can be bad, because there will probably be times that you need to meditate and project when you don't have a portable cd player, etc.  

I still believe it's important to make this learning process as natural as possible.  Keeping Salvia, Hemi-Sync, muscle relaxers, or Hyper Dimensional Resonators (I'm serious, it's a "real" time machine which can also induce OBE's) out of the picture.  Though, if using Hemi-sync at first is really like "training" wheels to get your focus up to speed.. then that would probably be ok!

I like the training wheels analogy.  []

He mentions it in the Treatise, near the start.  If it's too noisy, just dial in an "offset" radio station so you hear static/white noise.  Believe it or not, this is a wonderful technique!

I have meditated for quite a few years, and I am able to focus with noises around me.  (To a certain degree)  But you wont catch me trying to do it at a family get together.  lol!

Hey m0d0!
Congratulations on your progress!  Like you, I am working steadily at achieving that infamous state known as OBE and the Astral Realm.  Although i'm not a projector (yet) I thought it would be nice for you to hear some opinions from another person who is going through the same thing.

Your experiences sound very familiar to mine.  In fact, I would like to point out that the very first time I tried Astral Projecting, was kind of by accident.  Basically, I was attempting to go to sleep while I lied motionless in bed.  I was really bored .. my mind wasn't tired, but my body was exhausted.  Because I was bored, I really had nothing to think about.  Nothing was really troubling me, so my mind was pretty empty.  (Is that bad or good?  lol)

Anyway, I very soon realized that body had fallen asleep.  But I was aware of it!  So I thought "Hey this is kind of cool!", so I tried harder to focus on the black void and think of nothing, when I too encountered the strange vibrations you experienced!  This very confusing, startling experience scared me, and it caused me to snap out of it very quickly.

Quite some time has passed since that experience, and just recently I found out what I went through is very common!  Not only that, I realized I stumbled upon the techniques to astral project purely by accident!  But nonetheless, I have been attempting to try out new techniques and get back to that point recently.  Just as you have.

Hopefully by reading this, you see that it's very possible for you to get results on your very first try.  It's not common, but it does happen more and more.  The "gift" you have is the ability to focus very well already.  Other people need to develop their skills more to get to that point.  So essentially, it just takes them more time and patience.. but we all get there at some point.

25 Minutes is a pretty common time to meditate.  I spend about 20-30 minutes before entering that "trance" state.  But this can vary quite a bit, depending on many situations.  (Lighting, relaxation, mental energy, exhaustion, etc.)  In time, you will actually get better at this, and that 25 minutes will seem like a long time.  Remember, Robert Bruce has stated he can enter a trance state within 5 minutes.  But also remember, he has (if my memory serves me well) 25 years worth of experience doing this!

The "eye" thing you are referring to is what is commonly referred to as your "3rd eye".  It is centered directly between your two brows.  This 3rd eye is believed to be a tremendous focal point for visualization and concentration.  NOTE: There is a really interesting bit of information on this website in the download section about the human brain, and there is a special section in the front of the brain which is believed to assist in some kind of intense visualization when the eyes are rolled back.  Especially during sleep.  This is in the exact location the 3rd eye is referred to.  Check it out, it's pretty interesting.

As for your pulsing heart, i'm pretty new myself and have been running in to this situation quite a bit.  Just last night, I experienced my heart chakra.  (Not my actual heart)  And it was beating 3-4 times faster than my normal heart beat.  Very strange!  BUT, I also have a very high physical heart beat, and I believe this is caused due to elevated levels of anxiety.  You are excited.  I can't think of anything else.. though I have read many reports of accelerated heart pulses being a normal thing, to a point.  It's up to you to find out if you are truly anxious and excited, which results in adrenaline being released in to your system (which is normal according to Robert Bruce, but must be IGNORED!) and try to control it better.

It sounded like you were just about there, especially considering you experienced the infamous "vibrations" everyone talks about.  But remember, it's pretty easy to get your chakra heart confused with your real heart.  Unless you're sure you can feel it throbbing and pumping through your system with massive force.  (Which I do)  

After this point, visualizing yourself "outside" of your body (in 1st person), exerts pressure on your astral self.. causing a seperation, or "exit mode".  That's why the ROPE technique is so great, because you are in a constant state of applying pressure to your astral body.  

Now if only I could get the hang of that ROPE technique.  I do better at staring at blackness than I do climbing the ROPE!

I hope this answers your questions.  The more and more you do this, the more you will realize is happening.  At least for me, the experience is always different, .. many sensations, heart chakra pulses, sounds, everything changes during each experience.  Just pay attention to them and you will see that it's actually pretty "normal" once you get used to it!  

Isn't this great?  []

Good luck!

Heya Huwie!
I would answer your question if I could project too!  But, I have read a couple of his books and he is pretty adventurous in a big way.  There were times his books started drifting off in to something really crazy that I couldn't begin to understand.  Perhaps to the experienced projectors out there, they understand the books better.

When I first read the books, I was actually pretty skeptical about his claims.  I still have my reservations, but i'm slowly opening up to more possibilities now that I have been reading more about this.  But with all the reading I have done, I really haven't seen anybody talk about experiences the same way Monroe did.  But then again, like Robert Bruce has said, everybody experiences things completely different from the others.  

Too bad Monroe isn't around anymore.  But the Monroe Institue will live on in his memory.  It's a pretty cool idea!

Just thought I would chime in.  How are your exercises going Huwie?  []

Huwie!
Thank you for spending your time sharing your personal techniques with us.  I am going to try some of the things you suggested and see if that yields better results.  I guess you're right about the ROPE technique and making sure you don't visualize it.  It's just really hard!  I also think you may be on to something with the "relaxed state" before attempting to move further.  I've never been clear on this, whether or not i'm REALLY comfortable and relaxed.  (Even though it seems I am?)

I don't have a real comfortable chair or recliner, so I do this laying down on my bed.  I wonder if propping my head up will help?

Huwie!
Congratulations!  I'm not sure I would consider that a failure if I were in your shoes.  That's called "Progress" and you got closer than you ever got before.  As you know, (from my own thread) the closest I have gotten is feeling very intense vibrations and loud humming, and feeling like my body was heavy and then weightless.

But for me, it has only happened once.  I'm having difficulties getting back to that point.  I would be interested to hear your personal experiences using Robert Bruce's techniques in detail.

Wow!  What a great experience.  I enjoyed reading it!

Hi Coral1 and Huwie!
Thank you for the kind words of encouragment!
I hope all of you are successful in your ventures as well.  I for one, have been having a difficult time getting there.  Huwie, it's funny that you mentioned Robert Bruce's articles, because about the time you posted that info, I was in the midst of reading it!  Very intriguing to say the least.

However, I had a very difficult time getting results out of the ROPE technique.  Part of my problem is how easy it is for me to visualize the rope, but not actually feel it.  Is that a problem?  I'm not exactly clear on making the ROPE technique work.  You have been getting wonderful results, so what am I doing wrong?  Should I imagine my physical body on the ground while I climb the rope?  Is it absolutely important that you "feel" this rope instead of visualize it?

My other question involves the Chakras, exercises.  Robert Bruce discusses pulling energy up from your feet to your base Chakra.  But he makes it confusing.  He says bring the energy up first before you open the chakra, and then bring more energy up and hold it on exhale.. but then what?  Do I visualize myself pushing the energy with my hands in to the chakra?  

Lately, I have encountered brief moments of vibrations/tingling sensations.  I have also been hyper-ventilating.  I can't breathe.  I don't know if this is because I stop breathing or what.  And I also noticed my heart (my real heart) is thumping very loud and quickly.  Could it be anxiety?  

And what do you think of this...
Last night, I was in a deep meditative trance state.  And suddenly, I thought I heard voices, sentences I couldn't really understand or put together.  And I felt a quick breathe of air on my lips/nose.  Like somebody or an animal was sniffing my face.  Needless to say, this broke my concentration.

What was that?  I swear i'm going nuts, but I know what I felt, or what I thought I felt.  

I'm sorry for all the questions!  I think I need guidance and support.. so I don't get frustrated.  That's the last thing I want in this spiritual adventure of mine.

Thank you all so much!  I will eagerly await your replies!

Thank you for the quick reply!  And the warm welcome!
I so desperately want to believe what happened to me was real.. and not my imagination.  I just can't discard it.. because it literally scared me.  I'm a little nervous to try it again.. I don't know why.

But i'm going to try again.  My only question is, how close was I?  What do I do after I get those vibrations/buzzing through my body?  I'm afraid if I try and get up, that it will cause me to "think" and I will snap out of it.

What happens next?  What should I do?